Sigma SD1M wrong colors

Started Mar 27, 2013 | Discussions
SandyF
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Re: Sigma SD1M wrong colors
In reply to Roland Karlsson, Mar 29, 2013

Roland Karlsson wrote:

anfat wrote:

It happen only that the orange is darker but orange too..

OK

Red becoming orange or pink is an old Foveon problem. It has been seen for SD14 and at least for the earlier DP cameras. And obviously some here have seen it with their SD1M cameras. Strange that they have not told it already. If its common, it might be an important information for potential buyers.

As far as I understand, you always get it. Which, of course, not is acceptable. So ... you have to do something. If you cant find any solution ... I assume you have to contact Sigma about it.

Roland, I haven't had problems with reds...with good exposure... since the SD14 came out in 2007. Going back through my photos, SD14, DP1, DP2, DP2Merrill, SD15, reds are fine. Reds can go orange or pink if you blow out the exposure.

I've seen good reds in the few SD1 photos I took with reds in them. So I don't think it's "common" But true, someone skilled needs to analyze the OPs RAWs. I hope he sent them to Laurence, for example. The photo of the playground equipment does look peculiar.

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anfat
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Re: Sigma SD1M wrong colors
In reply to SandyF, Mar 29, 2013

I have sent them to Laurence and Steiner...I hope they have received the files...

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Hardy Steiner
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Whithout seeing the X3F there is no way to make conclusions
In reply to mburns, Mar 29, 2013

As far as I can remember red and yellow has always been a problem discussed in this forum over the last few years. Now, there might be problems with firmware, SPP etc ... but without seeing the X3F file we are all just guessing. But often there are just exposure problems ... as these colors can fool the meter if not the correct metering setting is chosen (not saying this happened here, but without the X3F file we don't know).

The pictures of the playground were taken at different times of the day ... one looks like overcast, the other one sunny. Look at the exposure values. So, to understand this problem and to offer any help/suggestions, please share your X3F file with us.

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anfat
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Re: Whithout seeing the X3F there is no way to make conclusions
In reply to Hardy Steiner, Mar 29, 2013

Hi, I've sent to you and laurence the files...don't have you received?

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anfat
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Re: Whithout seeing the X3F there is no way to make conclusions
In reply to Hardy Steiner, Mar 29, 2013

here the link to download images:

http://we.tl/g5o0kcI2K1

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Hardy Steiner
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Re: Whithout seeing the X3F there is no way to make conclusions
In reply to anfat, Mar 29, 2013

I haven't received an email ... but the link seems to work ... thanks! I try to have a look at it once I get home.

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anfat
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Re: Whithout seeing the X3F there is no way to make conclusions
In reply to Hardy Steiner, Mar 29, 2013

Hardy Steiner wrote:

I haven't received an email ... but the link seems to work ... thanks! I try to have a look at it once I get home.

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thank you very much!

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Hardy Steiner
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Re: Whithout seeing the X3F there is no way to make conclusions
In reply to anfat, Mar 29, 2013

So I had a very quick look ... sorry not too much time available today: There isn't anything I can find wrong about the pictures, maybe just a little but of overexposure, but not by much. In any case, I wouldn't expect red to turn out orange. I normally don't change my pictures much in SPP, so I didn't try a  lot of options. It's best you wait until some of the other forum members provide feedback as well, maybe they can find something.

Which firmware is your SD1 M on? Is it the latest? If not, maybe you try to upgrade and see if something changes.

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Guenter Borgemeister
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Re: Change WB to sun and Colormode to vivid ...
In reply to Hardy Steiner, Mar 29, 2013

... and you get perfectly fine reds.

I downloaded your files and was surprised that the SD1 responds very strongly to change of color modes. Foveon blue for example turns the reds into pure yellow, I dont remember having seen that kind of response from my DPM´s.

BTW., if you turn on the overexposure warnings in SPP, you will see that the reds are indeed way overexposed.

Hardy Steiner wrote:

So I had a very quick look ... sorry not too much time available today: There isn't anything I can find wrong about the pictures, maybe just a little but of overexposure, but not by much. In any case, I wouldn't expect red to turn out orange. I normally don't change my pictures much in SPP, so I didn't try a  lot of options. It's best you wait until some of the other forum members provide feedback as well, maybe they can find something.

Which firmware is your SD1 M on? Is it the latest? If not, maybe you try to upgrade and see if something changes.

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anfat
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Re: Change WB to sun and Colormode to vivid ...
In reply to Guenter Borgemeister, Mar 29, 2013

Guenter Borgemeister wrote:

... and you get perfectly fine reds.

I downloaded your files and was surprised that the SD1 responds very strongly to change of color modes. Foveon blue for example turns the reds into pure yellow, I dont remember having seen that kind of response from my DPM´s.

BTW., if you turn on the overexposure warnings in SPP, you will see that the reds are indeed way overexposed.

Hardy Steiner wrote:

So I had a very quick look ... sorry not too much time available today: There isn't anything I can find wrong about the pictures, maybe just a little but of overexposure, but not by much. In any case, I wouldn't expect red to turn out orange. I normally don't change my pictures much in SPP, so I didn't try a  lot of options. It's best you wait until some of the other forum members provide feedback as well, maybe they can find something.

Which firmware is your SD1 M on? Is it the latest? If not, maybe you try to upgrade and see if something changes.

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no, sorry...they are not reds, are oranges only darker...

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anfat
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Re: Whithout seeing the X3F there is no way to make conclusions
In reply to Hardy Steiner, Mar 29, 2013

Hardy Steiner wrote:

So I had a very quick look ... sorry not too much time available today: There isn't anything I can find wrong about the pictures, maybe just a little but of overexposure, but not by much. In any case, I wouldn't expect red to turn out orange. I normally don't change my pictures much in SPP, so I didn't try a  lot of options. It's best you wait until some of the other forum members provide feedback as well, maybe they can find something.

Which firmware is your SD1 M on? Is it the latest? If not, maybe you try to upgrade and see if something changes.

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1.04..

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Hornbrille
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Color Modes !
In reply to Guenter Borgemeister, Mar 29, 2013

Yes, it's the color mode.

Look at my attempts (added some contrast and fill light and adjusted exposure):

Neutral desaturates more visible colors (red). This gives a somehow muted look with rich tones.

Standard color mode is the most balanced

Vivid is called vivid for a reason.

All three pic without any other color correction.

Uwe 8-)

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anfat
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Re: Change WB to sun and Colormode to vivid ...
In reply to Hornbrille, Mar 29, 2013

my monitor is calibrated with x-rite and I have tried all the combination of colors and wb...I can tell you that ther's no correspondence with the realty...only more saturated colors...

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Guenter Borgemeister
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Re: Change WB to sun and Colormode to vivid ...
In reply to anfat, Mar 29, 2013

anfat wrote:

Guenter Borgemeister wrote:

... and you get perfectly fine reds.

I downloaded your files and was surprised that the SD1 responds very strongly to change of color modes. Foveon blue for example turns the reds into pure yellow, I dont remember having seen that kind of response from my DPM´s.

BTW., if you turn on the overexposure warnings in SPP, you will see that the reds are indeed way overexposed.

Hardy Steiner wrote:

So I had a very quick look ... sorry not too much time available today: There isn't anything I can find wrong about the pictures, maybe just a little but of overexposure, but not by much. In any case, I wouldn't expect red to turn out orange. I normally don't change my pictures much in SPP, so I didn't try a  lot of options. It's best you wait until some of the other forum members provide feedback as well, maybe they can find something.

Which firmware is your SD1 M on? Is it the latest? If not, maybe you try to upgrade and see if something changes.

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no, sorry...they are not reds, are oranges only darker...

In vivid-mode, RGB-values read 223 17 3, the resulting CMYK-values read 2% 99% 100% 1% (in that image with the traffic sign in that red board). Looks pretty red to me. Not completely pure red, but seems pretty ok.

Reds have always been a bit problematic with any Foveon-camera, that´s probably due to the way the sensor works. In images with strong red parts it is always good to underexpose a bit, because the built in meter doesn´t seem to respect that strong red-response.

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BobNL
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Re: Change WB to sun and Colormode to vivid ...
In reply to anfat, Mar 29, 2013

anfat wrote:

my monitor is calibrated with x-rite and I have tried all the combination of colors and wb...I can tell you that ther's no correspondence with the realty...only more saturated colors...

Is the calibration working right with SPP? Switching to overcast WB, vivid mode and exposure 1,5 stops down makes for me a pretty convincing scene. Was not there so can't say if it mimics reality. I see that you examples in general over overexposed by at least 1 stop.

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Hornbrille
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Re: Change WB to sun and Colormode to vivid ...
In reply to anfat, Mar 29, 2013

You can find a more magenta look in SPP but this involves color correction:

Sunlight, Portrait, 34C + 22M

I remember my SD15 to be very picky with reds. Had to desaturate or underexpose frequently. DP2M works quite well compared to that. If you need a realistic red response with you SD1 you probably have to PP your images, use Portrait mode and shoot with controlled lighting conditions.

Uwe 8-)

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SandyF
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Re: Change WB to sun and Colormode to vivid ...
In reply to Hornbrille, Mar 29, 2013

Most cameras I've used, Sigma, Canon, Pentax, have been picky with reds.. particularly flowers which have a UV or something 'glow' to them often. One instance I can think of, Sigma x (whatever I was using, have to check) did 'better' on really red sunlit tulips at the US Botanic Garden than my Canon 5DII. The DP2Merrill has been 'good' on reds for me in several indoor and outdoor situations (see photos on flickr in my DP2Merrill set)... particularly the red antique cars indoors in Nashville and that 'test' caboose I use in my town. The SD10 used to do it in pink! Cameras since than have good red when I expose right.
I suppose I'd use spot metering on the playground equipment in the OP's case, since that's the subject. Take a couple different exposures, if I were not really familiar with the camera. And then I'd fiddle in SPP with white balances and colormodes then colorwheel to get the best results.

While I think the SD1 shoots (exposes and settings) kind of similarly to the DP2Merrill, they're not exactly the same. But more similar than say the DP2Merrill to the SD15 or SD14 or earlier DP models.
White balance and colormodes make a SIGNIFICANT difference in these cameras.

The 'hot' caboose again, DP2Merrill, different view, shooting up towards sky

DP2Merrill IN-CAM JPEG f/9 1/500 ISO100 possibly used a polarizer, I don't remember, evaluative metering

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Hardy Steiner
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Re: Whithout seeing the X3F there is no way to make conclusions
In reply to anfat, Mar 29, 2013

ok, this looks fine. Well, as others said as well, red is quite sensitive. if there is overexposure, it might be off. It would be good if you could test the same scene again with different exposure settings to see if it makes a difference.

Do you have any filter on your lens?

Does it happen with every lens?

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Laurence Matson
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Here's what I see
In reply to anfat, Mar 29, 2013

anfat wrote:

Hi, I have a new SD1M that produce colors not true: some reds are orange, some greens are light blue; I've tried to change wb and to set up a personal wb, but with no result...which could be the cause?

Here is what I am seeing. All in the same colorspace (Standard) and white balance (Overcast), all auto. Since I have no idea what these looked like in the real world, it is hard to say. However, the set of signs look right in terms of color.

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anfat
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Re: Whithout seeing the X3F there is no way to make conclusions
In reply to Hardy Steiner, Mar 29, 2013

Hardy Steiner wrote:

ok, this looks fine. Well, as others said as well, red is quite sensitive. if there is overexposure, it might be off. It would be good if you could test the same scene again with different exposure settings to see if it makes a difference.

Do you have any filter on your lens?

Does it happen with every lens?

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in my country the weather is very bad...when we'll have some sun I'll make other tests...

no filter, at this moment I have only the 70 macro...

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