HS50EXR and F900EXR reviews ...

Started Mar 27, 2013 | Discussions
alexisgreat
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Re: Am I missing something in the translation here?
In reply to Nightwings, Mar 31, 2013

wow, was any kind of post processing or stacking done on these?  I assume the second image uses digital zoom?

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jcmarfilph
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Re: Am I missing something in the translation here?
In reply to Nightwings, Mar 31, 2013

Nightwings wrote:

jcmarfilph wrote:

> Kim Letkeman whined:

A note on the whole L versus M debate. Don’t be fooled by the forceful opinions you see where L “crushes” M and blurry images are posted to prove it. These images are invariably poorly shot, with no attempt to sharpen up the M size image after upsizing (showing a profound lack of skills and understanding of what interpolation does to an image) and with little attention to surfaces, dark subject, and very fine details.

> Blurry buildings do not an argument make, except on the Internet. So please just examine these closely. I shoot M size exclusively, and nothing I have seen from the HS50 has changed my mind, except perhaps when shooting with factory settings. Then maybe it does not matter because I think there is a bug in the firmware. But if you drop noise reduction to –2, and shoot every else at 0, then M mode seems to shoot very nicely.

Lol. 1/900s shot of a building blurry? I wasted time looking at your samples but it clearly showed L size has more details on the note and sharper too? Again who will believe in your lousy comparison? You cannot magically produce a detail that is not there.

Just for goodness sake, stop with your delusional claim. You've ridiculed yourself once again. LSize is sharper and has more detail than upsized M size.

-=[ Joms ]=-

What are you guys arguing about?

He is daydreaming that upsampled Msize to 16MP will trounce LSize.

Clearly the right sided samples are yielding more detail... and depending on what part of the image ... A LOT more detail.... albeit with a bit more noise, but topaz denoise would clean that up nicely, and still retain the detail.

Of course LSize is better.

Or am I missing another point in this discussion that I'm not aware of?

Nope you pretty much got the point and only Kim is the one delusional that MSize is better and is the only way that EXR camera should be used.

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Nightwings
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Re: Am I missing something in the translation here?
In reply to alexisgreat, Mar 31, 2013

alexisgreat wrote:

wow, was any kind of post processing or stacking done on these?  I assume the second image uses digital zoom?

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Topaz denoise and cropping......no digital zoom....... stacking requires work..... I don't work.

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alexisgreat
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Re: Am I missing something in the translation here?
In reply to Nightwings, Mar 31, 2013

so the second one is a pixel for pixel image with the outer part of the image removed? Nice! You can even see the atmospheric bands.

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Nightwings
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Re: Am I missing something in the translation here?
In reply to alexisgreat, Mar 31, 2013

alexisgreat wrote:

so the second one is a pixel for pixel image with the outer part of the image removed? Nice! You can even see the atmospheric bands.

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No..they are both crops..... one's cropped bigger than the other. Both shots are unique... i.e. separate shots

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alexisgreat
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Re: Am I missing something in the translation here?
In reply to Nightwings, Mar 31, 2013

what does it look like at 100 percent size with the background black removed NW? I'm trying to ascertain image scale.

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Nando Kenobi
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Re: HS50EXR and F900EXR reviews ...
In reply to Kim Letkeman, Mar 31, 2013

A new set of videos:

1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45qXiLGALhc (A short review, I don't understand the language but they show some nice pictures)

2. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_OSkiF6TVrk (pic/movie test)

3. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wAzUDhpcXyE (Some ISO test)

4. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0piiqth8jhU (showing the camera itself)

5. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8H-T9qN2Kk (Highspeed video)

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english:

1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qld5KR3JDZQ (unboxing + first look)

2. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FIqzgv7WHGI (Sample HD Video)

Regards

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Nightwings
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Re: Am I missing something in the translation here?
In reply to alexisgreat, Mar 31, 2013

alexisgreat wrote:

what does it look like at 100 percent size with the background black removed NW? I'm trying to ascertain image scale.

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I will try to find.... and post the original image.

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LTZ470
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Re: Am I missing something in the translation here?
In reply to Nightwings, Mar 31, 2013

Nightwings wrote:

alexisgreat wrote:

wow, was any kind of post processing or stacking done on these?  I assume the second image uses digital zoom?

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Topaz denoise and cropping......no digital zoom....... stacking requires work..... I don't work.

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My kinda guy...

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Steen Bay
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12mp vs. 6mp in DPR's X10 review
In reply to jcmarfilph, Mar 31, 2013

jcmarfilph wrote:

Nightwings wrote:

Clearly the right sided samples are yielding more detail... and depending on what part of the image ... A LOT more detail.... albeit with a bit more noise, but topaz denoise would clean that up nicely, and still retain the detail.

Of course LSize is better.

L and M size (12mp and 6mp) resolution test chart shots are available for download in DPR's X10 review. Took a look at the JPEGs (the RAWs aren't good), and to my eyes L size wins clearly.

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/fujifilm-x10/13

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PAUL TILL
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Re: Am I missing something in the translation here?
In reply to jcmarfilph, Mar 31, 2013

jcmarfilph wrote:

Nope you pretty much got the point and only Kim is the one delusional that MSize is better and is the only way that EXR camera should be used.

He's not the only one, I will only shoot at M size with an EXR camera, but I wouldn't up size a 6MP image to 12MP size. If I need larger images I use a better camera.

Now Joms, you do exactly the opposite, you shoot at L size and down size. Admittedly this give the impression that the L size image is sharper but once the M size image has been sharpened it always wins.

You're never going to win this argument as you seem to like shooting with the worse performing EXR cameras, the HS series look crap at both sizes to start with.

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Steen Bay
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Re: Am I missing something in the translation here?
In reply to PAUL TILL, Mar 31, 2013

PAUL TILL wrote:

jcmarfilph wrote:

Nope you pretty much got the point and only Kim is the one delusional that MSize is better and is the only way that EXR camera should be used.

He's not the only one, I will only shoot at M size with an EXR camera, but I wouldn't up size a 6MP image to 12MP size. If I need larger images I use a better camera.

Now Joms, you do exactly the opposite, you shoot at L size and down size. Admittedly this give the impression that the L size image is sharper but once the M size image has been sharpened it always wins.

You're never going to win this argument as you seem to like shooting with the worse performing EXR cameras, the HS series look crap at both sizes to start with.

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Your X-S1 has the same sensor as X10, and comparing L vs. M size in DPR's X10 review shows that L size has a considerably higher resolution (see my post right above) Why not take advantage of that?

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PAUL TILL
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Re: Am I missing something in the translation here?
In reply to Steen Bay, Mar 31, 2013

Does it?

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jcmarfilph
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Re: Am I missing something in the translation here?
In reply to PAUL TILL, Mar 31, 2013

PAUL TILL wrote:

jcmarfilph wrote:

Nope you pretty much got the point and only Kim is the one delusional that MSize is better and is the only way that EXR camera should be used.

He's not the only one, I will only shoot at M size with an EXR camera, but I wouldn't up size a 6MP image to 12MP size. If I need larger images I use a better camera.

Then he is the only one. I shoot Msize if I don't need highres and want to save space of my HDD.

Now Joms, you do exactly the opposite, you shoot at L size and down size. Admittedly this give the impression that the L size image is sharper but once the M size image has been sharpened it always wins.

Nope, you are blind then. See the comparison above. Msize lacks detail and sharpness when upsized.

You're never going to win this argument as you seem to like shooting with the worse performing EXR cameras, the HS series look crap at both sizes to start with.

Lol. It doesn't matter if I will use HS or X-S1. I will not cripple my camera to half resolution.

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-=[ Joms ]=-

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Midwest
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Re: Am I missing something in the translation here?
In reply to Steen Bay, Mar 31, 2013

Steen Bay wrote:

PAUL TILL wrote:

jcmarfilph wrote:

Nope you pretty much got the point and only Kim is the one delusional that MSize is better and is the only way that EXR camera should be used.

He's not the only one, I will only shoot at M size with an EXR camera, but I wouldn't up size a 6MP image to 12MP size. If I need larger images I use a better camera.

Now Joms, you do exactly the opposite, you shoot at L size and down size. Admittedly this give the impression that the L size image is sharper but once the M size image has been sharpened it always wins.

You're never going to win this argument as you seem to like shooting with the worse performing EXR cameras, the HS series look crap at both sizes to start with.

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Your X-S1 has the same sensor as X10, and comparing L vs. M size in DPR's X10 review shows that L size has a considerably higher resolution (see my post right above) Why not take advantage of that?

Can you really compare images between those two cameras when the X10 has a better lens?

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Buhl213
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Re: Am I missing something in the translation here?
In reply to Steen Bay, Mar 31, 2013

Steen Bay wrote:

PAUL TILL wrote:

jcmarfilph wrote:

Nope you pretty much got the point and only Kim is the one delusional that MSize is better and is the only way that EXR camera should be used.

He's not the only one, I will only shoot at M size with an EXR camera, but I wouldn't up size a 6MP image to 12MP size. If I need larger images I use a better camera.

Now Joms, you do exactly the opposite, you shoot at L size and down size. Admittedly this give the impression that the L size image is sharper but once the M size image has been sharpened it always wins.

You're never going to win this argument as you seem to like shooting with the worse performing EXR cameras, the HS series look crap at both sizes to start with.

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The 10% Rule:
You Must Be 10% Smarter Than The Equipment You're Operating

Your X-S1 has the same sensor as X10, and comparing L vs. M size in DPR's X10 review shows that L size has a considerably higher resolution (see my post right above) Why not take advantage of that?

Because the resolution charts are high-contrast, two-colour (and even worse; the two colours used are black and white, always utilizing all of the RGGB-sensors regardless of the light).

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Steen Bay
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Re: Am I missing something in the translation here?
In reply to Midwest, Mar 31, 2013

Midwest wrote:

Steen Bay wrote:

PAUL TILL wrote:

jcmarfilph wrote:

Nope you pretty much got the point and only Kim is the one delusional that MSize is better and is the only way that EXR camera should be used.

He's not the only one, I will only shoot at M size with an EXR camera, but I wouldn't up size a 6MP image to 12MP size. If I need larger images I use a better camera.

Now Joms, you do exactly the opposite, you shoot at L size and down size. Admittedly this give the impression that the L size image is sharper but once the M size image has been sharpened it always wins.

You're never going to win this argument as you seem to like shooting with the worse performing EXR cameras, the HS series look crap at both sizes to start with.

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The 10% Rule:
You Must Be 10% Smarter Than The Equipment You're Operating

Your X-S1 has the same sensor as X10, and comparing L vs. M size in DPR's X10 review shows that L size has a considerably higher resolution (see my post right above) Why not take advantage of that?

Can you really compare images between those two cameras when the X10 has a better lens?

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It's nice to say that nice pictures are nice.

Yes, it's quite likely that a 4x zoom (X10) is sharper than a 26x zoom (X-S1), but on the other hand, then the 42x zoom on HS50 seems to be good enough to show a clear difference between L and M size (and Paul was talking about EXR cameras in general, not just the X-S1).

Also possible that there often won't be much difference in detail/resolution between L and M size in real world shooting (due to focus errors, shake/blur, etc.), but think that's the case with all high resolution cameras, like e.g. E-M5 and 5D3. Despite that, then people are (most often) shooting at full resolution.

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Tim39
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Re: Am I missing something in the translation here?
In reply to alexisgreat, Mar 31, 2013

alexisgreat wrote:

wow, was any kind of post processing or stacking done on these?  I assume the second image uses digital zoom?

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Kim Letkeman
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enough
In reply to jcmarfilph, Mar 31, 2013

jcmarfilph wrote:

He is daydreaming that upsampled Msize to 16MP will trounce LSize.

Of course LSize is better.

Nope you pretty much got the point and only Kim is the one delusional that MSize is better and is the only way that EXR camera should be used.

There is no new detail there at base ISO in my image. Just a sharpness / acuity difference and it is very slight when you consider it is the equivalent of looking at a 46" print close up.

Your building example is so wildly different (but still only in sharpening from what I can tell from your low quality examples) that it likely was shot at defaults, which are broken.

The bottom line is:

  • Factory settings 0,0,0,0 are broken for M size shooting. Never do that.
  • Upsizing is a skill that Joms does not have.
  • Using your hacks of my work to justify your childish rant is absurd. I don;t know what NW was thinking.

So I would appreciate it you and everyone else would stop wasting your time and my time by trying to assert that L is better than M based on one or another limited crop that mainly shows slight sharpness / contrast differences. Or in your case is a simple disaster of bad shooting.

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KJaay
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Re: enough
In reply to Kim Letkeman, Mar 31, 2013

I know a lot of people like me, who appreciate your review!

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KJ

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