HS50EXR and F900EXR reviews ...

Started Mar 27, 2013 | Discussions
Kim Letkeman
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Re: part 3 -- ISO ladder
In reply to Buhl213, Mar 28, 2013

Buhl213 wrote:

Kim Letkeman wrote:

By  a single lamp held about 3 feet away. So not super low light, but not that bright either. And nasty color temp ...

http://kimletkeman.blogspot.ca/2013/03/hs50exr-and-f900exr-review-part-3-iso.html

The HS50 really struggles. Quite surprising ...

If you bring up the HS' saturation in post to match the F900, will it be equally noisy - in particular the F900's yellow at ISO1600+3200?

They are all at default settings with no tweaking in this test ....

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jcmarfilph
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Re: part 3 -- ISO ladder
In reply to Kim Letkeman, Mar 28, 2013

Kim Letkeman wrote:

jcmarfilph wrote:

Prolly an excited user's mistake.

You need to calm down and stop coming off as a spoiled child.

How can we tell the accuracy of these tests if original files are not provided. Are the settings the same? Are the focus points the same?

The focus point is identical for all five cameras. That is the power of the tripod and center focus.

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You've been telling us how to shoot these EXR craps correctly and then you will present a lousy comparison to us and then conclude that HS50 is galactic lemon camera.

-=[ Joms ]=-

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PAUL TILL
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Re: part 3 -- ISO ladder
In reply to jcmarfilph, Mar 28, 2013

Joms, it's plain to see, just look. Go out and buy some of these cameras and test yourself, show all of us your results.

You keep on raving about these HS cameras and never show anything to back up your claims!

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You Must Be 10% Smarter Than The Equipment You're Operating

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jcmarfilph
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Re: part 3 -- ISO ladder
In reply to PAUL TILL, Mar 28, 2013

PAUL TILL wrote:

Joms, it's plain to see, just look. Go out and buy some of these cameras and test yourself, show all of us your results.

You keep on raving about these HS cameras and never show anything to back up your claims!

-- hide signature --

The 10% Rule:
You Must Be 10% Smarter Than The Equipment You're Operating

I did. I stomped his MSize claim million times already. Dave also posted one on a separate thread.

And I do not buy camera just to shoot crayons and threads and brush. I go out and shoot birds and different animals.

-=[ Joms ]=-

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KimberlyC
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Re: part 3 -- ISO ladder
In reply to jcmarfilph, Mar 28, 2013

A million times no less.

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PAUL TILL
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Re: part 3 -- ISO ladder
In reply to jcmarfilph, Mar 28, 2013

jcmarfilph wrote:

PAUL TILL wrote:

Joms, it's plain to see, just look. Go out and buy some of these cameras and test yourself, show all of us your results.

You keep on raving about these HS cameras and never show anything to back up your claims!

-- hide signature --

The 10% Rule:
You Must Be 10% Smarter Than The Equipment You're Operating

I did. I stomped his MSize claim million times already. Dave also posted one on a separate thread.

And I do not buy camera just to shoot crayons and threads and brush. I go out and shoot birds and different animals.

-=[ Joms ]=-

It's not as easy to do a controlled test out in the wild unless you can get your hands on a stuffed bird.

Maybe Kim can look on e-bay for one for future tests.

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wymjym
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Re: part 3 -- ISO ladder
In reply to PAUL TILL, Mar 28, 2013

PAUL TILL wrote:

jcmarfilph wrote:

PAUL TILL wrote:

Joms, it's plain to see, just look. Go out and buy some of these cameras and test yourself, show all of us your results.

You keep on raving about these HS cameras and never show anything to back up your claims!

-- hide signature --

The 10% Rule:
You Must Be 10% Smarter Than The Equipment You're Operating

I did. I stomped his MSize claim million times already. Dave also posted one on a separate thread.

And I do not buy camera just to shoot crayons and threads and brush. I go out and shoot birds and different animals.

-=[ Joms ]=-

It's not as easy to do a controlled test out in the wild unless you can get your hands on a stuffed bird.

Maybe Kim can look on e-bay for one for future tests.

-- hide signature --

The 10% Rule:
You Must Be 10% Smarter Than The Equipment You're Operating

I think a stuffed great horned owl test could be insightful and entertaining. Detail could be analyzed, effects of nr..then add a fan to the mix and determine shutter speeds at different apertures.........this could take one into their twilight years.

wj

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Kim Letkeman
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Re: part 3 -- ISO ladder
In reply to jcmarfilph, Mar 28, 2013

jcmarfilph wrote:

Kim Letkeman wrote:

jcmarfilph wrote:

Prolly an excited user's mistake.

You need to calm down and stop coming off as a spoiled child.

How can we tell the accuracy of these tests if original files are not provided. Are the settings the same? Are the focus points the same?

The focus point is identical for all five cameras. That is the power of the tripod and center focus.

-- hide signature --

You've been telling us how to shoot these EXR craps correctly and then you will present a lousy comparison to us and then conclude that HS50 is galactic lemon camera.

I did nothing of the sort. You need to pull your head out of that dark place you keep it and take some deep breaths. Then contemplate what I write without inserting your biases and filters into the process.

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Kim Letkeman
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part 4 ...
In reply to Kim Letkeman, Mar 28, 2013

The debate rages on the HS50 etc ... so I bring this all back to reality by showing web sized images of the same 3200 ISO files. Things are far less dire than the ISO ladder makes them appear ...

http://kimletkeman.blogspot.ca/2013/03/hs50exr-and-f900exr-review-part-4.html

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Photofreak7
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Re: part 4 ...
In reply to Kim Letkeman, Mar 28, 2013

Wow the 'old' F200EXR still impresses a bit here -but- even though the F900EXR has better saturation and slightly better detail under scrutiny (IMO) the best bang for the buck in the recent market looks to be the F770EXR ... IMO alot of camera for the money (around $200 currently) ... good balance of size, zoom and overall decent IQ as your tests show. I may have to pick one up and give it a try as a companion to my G15 

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Tim39
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Re: Focus Peaking HS50
In reply to LTZ470, Mar 28, 2013

LTZ470 wrote:

Would love to see the focus peaking utilised on the HS50 versus AF...so a tripod mounted HS50 at say 30ft from a subject with some depth I.E. something 3 ft in length at 30ft and focus with AF taking a three AF shots and then using Focus Peaking at a specific point on the 3 ft length taking three shots just to see how effective it is...it works really well on the Sony's

-

Hey, speak English, will ya?  

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LTZ470
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Re: Focus Peaking HS50
In reply to Tim39, Mar 28, 2013

Tim39 wrote:

LTZ470 wrote:

Would love to see the focus peaking utilised on the HS50 versus AF...so a tripod mounted HS50 at say 30ft from a subject with some depth I.E. something 3 ft in length at 30ft and focus with AF taking a three AF shots and then using Focus Peaking at a specific point on the 3 ft length taking three shots just to see how effective it is...it works really well on the Sony's

-

Hey, speak English, will ya?  

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Tim

Sorry Tim, sometimes I no speeki di inglis...tu guud...

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Buhl213
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Re: part 3 -- ISO ladder
In reply to Kim Letkeman, Mar 28, 2013

Kim Letkeman wrote:

Buhl213 wrote:

Kim Letkeman wrote:

By  a single lamp held about 3 feet away. So not super low light, but not that bright either. And nasty color temp ...

http://kimletkeman.blogspot.ca/2013/03/hs50exr-and-f900exr-review-part-3-iso.html

The HS50 really struggles. Quite surprising ...

If you bring up the HS' saturation in post to match the F900, will it be equally noisy - in particular the F900's yellow at ISO1600+3200?

They are all at default settings with no tweaking in this test ....

Yes, you already stated that - what I am asking, based on my inability to judge it myself, is if the fading colours of the HS could be brought up to the level of the F9, and, if they were, whether the noise then would reach or exceed that of the F-images or stay reasonable. Otherwise I cannot from the current images judge if the differences are due to hardware or software (whether fuji chose to deal different with noise/high iso in the two cameras); and while I understand your test do not attempt to reveal that I find it important (to the extent pixelpeeping is important for these cameras) as one thing cannot be remedied while the other (perhaps) can.

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Kim Letkeman
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Re: part 3 -- ISO ladder
In reply to Buhl213, Mar 28, 2013

Buhl213 wrote:

Kim Letkeman wrote:

Buhl213 wrote:

Kim Letkeman wrote:

By  a single lamp held about 3 feet away. So not super low light, but not that bright either. And nasty color temp ...

http://kimletkeman.blogspot.ca/2013/03/hs50exr-and-f900exr-review-part-3-iso.html

The HS50 really struggles. Quite surprising ...

If you bring up the HS' saturation in post to match the F900, will it be equally noisy - in particular the F900's yellow at ISO1600+3200?

They are all at default settings with no tweaking in this test ....

Yes, you already stated that - what I am asking, based on my inability to judge it myself, is if the fading colours of the HS could be brought up to the level of the F9, and, if they were, whether the noise then would reach or exceed that of the F-images or stay reasonable.

I think I'll need to do a 1:1 test of the F900 against the HS50 at different settings combinations. That is the only way to get a handle on these issues ...

Otherwise I cannot from the current images judge if the differences are due to hardware or software (whether fuji chose to deal different with noise/high iso in the two cameras); and while I understand your test do not attempt to reveal that I find it important (to the extent pixelpeeping is important for these cameras) as one thing cannot be remedied while the other (perhaps) can.

Well, in JPEG terms, hardware and software issues are the same thing. When I crack the RAW issue, we will get to see how well the sensor performs without the JPEG engine.

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Kim Letkeman
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Re: part 4 ...
In reply to Photofreak7, Mar 28, 2013

Photofreak7 wrote:

Wow the 'old' F200EXR still impresses a bit here -but- even though the F900EXR has better saturation and slightly better detail under scrutiny (IMO) the best bang for the buck in the recent market looks to be the F770EXR ... IMO alot of camera for the money (around $200 currently) ... good balance of size, zoom and overall decent IQ as your tests show. I may have to pick one up and give it a try as a companion to my G15 

I got mine for a bit over 2090 bucks and I have to say that I am very pleased. Since I process every image, I really don't have any negatives in my own work. Of course, the F770 is a convenience and concert camera for me, since I have Panasonic mirrorless bodies that to the heavy lifting.

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Me Tarzan
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Re: Extreme zoom lenses
In reply to Ralph McKenzie, Mar 28, 2013

Ralph McKenzie wrote:

 

HS20, EXR DR 4:3 @ ISO 100

HS20 @ ISO 400 m 3:4 - 43mm EFL @ f5.0

 
 
 
Beautiful shots.
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KJaay
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Re: part 4 ...
In reply to Kim Letkeman, Mar 28, 2013

Kim could it be that the HS50 is applying way more NR!

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KJ

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alexisgreat
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Re: But Kim.....
In reply to Kim Letkeman, Mar 28, 2013

Basically ANY camera will perform well at higher ISO when reduced to web size, just as a benefit of downsampling.  Specifically, I would like to see what is the highest ISO one can reasonably use with these cameras for a 7.5x10 print (NR low Sharpening soft).

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alexisgreat
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Re: looking forward to Part 5 and maybe Part 6 :-P
In reply to KJaay, Mar 28, 2013

That's why we need to test all the Fuji cameras against each other at NR Low Sharpening Soft to see if the HS50 baseline for NR is actually higher across the full NR range.

In addition to that, Kim- is there anyway you could do a DR comparison at different levels of DR between the Fuji sensors? Like, is the HS50 DR400 any better than the F770 DR400?

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Kim Letkeman
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Re: But Kim.....
In reply to alexisgreat, Mar 28, 2013

alexisgreat wrote:

Basically ANY camera will perform well at higher ISO when reduced to web size, just as a benefit of downsampling.  Specifically, I would like to see what is the highest ISO one can reasonably use with these cameras for a 7.5x10 print (NR low Sharpening soft).

The HS50 is struggling at web size, so that really isn't true. Any camera looks better at reduced size, but some look far better than others ...

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