Blogger Ming Thein: GH3 a "consumer appliance"

Started Mar 27, 2013 | Discussions
Jorginho
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Re: Ming is one of few camera reviewers who actually takes great pictures.
In reply to tgutgu, Mar 30, 2013
Why does he lack the skills? I can't see that.

He does not know how too shoot video and how to evaluate the camera here and concludes (if I remeber correctly, I am not going ot read it again) things about te videodepartment that it is nothing special and has an awfull rolling shutter effect.

to give a helpfull review for those who want a GH3 cam and use it to the full. He has a very personal view on ergonomics (which is okey) and he has made it clear he simply did not use the camera as much as he used others and blames the camera for it.

If the camera as a view finder as the GH3 has, I would also stop using it extensively. Obviously, the camera has so many showstoppers for Mr. Thein that he could not see any reason to make even deeper analysis of it. A very reasonable approach. By the way, his review is at least as detailed as many other reviews (usually with uncritical positive results).

You can shoot video and foto with the screen if you like. "Giving up" is hte opposite of what you should always try to do I think "doing the best and making the most of it". Detail: I miss a lot of data, measrements with approproiate software. I don't think it is extensive at all.

The problem is that the review did not yield the results, the GH3 buyer expects.

I am not a buyer of the cam and never will be.

He can blame it for his reluctance to use it, he cannot blame the cam for acting upon this feeling.

Sure he can.

Sure, but that is not realistic. You are responsible for your own actions when you are a grown up, not someone else or something else.

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MPA1
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Re: Blogger Ming Thein: GH3 a "consumer appliance"
In reply to Len_Gee, Mar 30, 2013

Len_Gee wrote:

Do you really  care about his comments  as long as the camera works for you?

Does the camera meet your needs?

That's what really matters, isn't it?

It is, but IME many people like to have their choices validated by others because they do not have the courage of their convictions.

The inter web has rather created a 'groupthink' approach to camera equipment purchasing (and no doubt many other things too) by way of being able to gather hundreds of opinions on particular matters in mere hours. The number of "which lens shall I take to Europe/Africa/Japan' questions is a good example.

Anyone who grew up PI (Pre Internet!) used to get their information from monthly magazines that offered very little by way of interaction: just reviews of new stuff and learning articles, plus lots of glossy ads from Canikon etc.

Having the confidence to make your own choices and paddle your own canoe is something that the internet seems to be eroding. Many people are now concerned with whether they are making the popular decision because if it is popular it must be right.

I don't subscribe to this method at all (which is not to say I never read other people's views or take them into account) and here are some heresies that I committed:

1) I do not even own Photoshop. I hate it and refuse to use it. Indeed I believe that for 90% of photographers it is not the right solution now that there are many alternatives.

2) I don't like the Nikon D800!

3) I think tripods are a waste of time for all but a few special situations

4) I don't own any camera backpacks as I think they are a PITA

I am sure there are more, but these conclusions would be difficult for someone who is immersed in the groupthink to arrive at as they are contrary to the crowd-sourced 'wisdom'.

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danijel973
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Re: Blogger Ming Thein: GH3 a "consumer appliance"
In reply to MPA1, Mar 30, 2013

Here we come to the issue of original vs. influenced/group thinking. I think we can safely ignore the possibility of being completely beyond the group influence unless you're a hermit on some island without electricity. So basically "I am an individual who is not influenced by groupthink" is usually rephrased "I am scared sh**less of being absorbed into a group entity that negates my individuality so I'll make a show of doing some superficial things differently just in order to calm myself". Groupthink isn't about buying canikon cameras and iPhones, groupthink is about social networking based around equipment purchase and use.

The question is what to do about it. What I do is become aware of it. Awareness, in buddhism, isn't just a pointer towards solution, it *is* the solution. When you're aware of being influenced, it means you're not really influenced, you observe influence taking place but you're a detached entity with sufficient freedom as to take non-conditioned actions.

So the solution isn't really to buy m43 instead of Canon or Nikon. The solution isn't to buy Samsung instead of iPhone. The solution is to see what's going on and make non-automatic decisions. In many cases, you'll actually choose the same as the group because it makes sense. In other cases, you'll see the cliff and stay away.

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Coby
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Re: Blogger Ming Thein: GH3 a "consumer appliance"
In reply to Len_Gee, Apr 1, 2013

Do you really  care about his comments  as long as the camera works for you?

Does the camera meet your needs?

That's what really matters, isn't it?

Actually I, and I suspect a number of others who posted in this thread, don't give a hoot about his comments. What irritated me enough to bother commenting was seeing so many people staunchly defending what was clearly a very sub-par effort from him on this particular occasion (particularly with regard to video aspects of the camera).

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adrianf2
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Re: Blogger Ming Thein: GH3 a "consumer appliance"
In reply to StevenN, Apr 1, 2013

Don't know anything about this website (the report was via 4/3 Rumours), but presumably the Germans used some objective tests when coming to the conclusion that the GH3 was the best built camera. Interesting to see that the G5 and OMD share the same score. Perceptions can be interesting.

"That is the ranking of the sever testers form the German “Stiftung Warentest“. As you see the Panasonic Gh3 ranked as current best DSLR+Mirrorless System Camera. Also the compact cameras from Panasonic and Olympus are on top of the list. Quite an astonishing result! That said there is no such thing as a perfect ranking and testing. It all depends from what you need:)

P.S.:In Germany a lower score = better quality."

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MichaelKJ
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Re: Blogger Ming Thein: GH3 a "consumer appliance"
In reply to Coby, Apr 1, 2013

Coby wrote:

Do you really  care about his comments  as long as the camera works for you?

Does the camera meet your needs?

That's what really matters, isn't it?

Actually I, and I suspect a number of others who posted in this thread, don't give a hoot about his comments. What irritated me enough to bother commenting was seeing so many people staunchly defending what was clearly a very sub-par effort from him on this particular occasion (particularly with regard to video aspects of the camera).

And, others were responding to those who denigrated him by saying that he is a blogger whore who was intentionally trying to stir up controversy to increase hits on his website.

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captura
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Re: Blogger Ming Thein: GH3 a "consumer appliance"
In reply to MichaelKJ, Apr 4, 2013

MichaelKJ wrote:

Coby wrote:

Do you really  care about his comments  as long as the camera works for you?

Does the camera meet your needs?

That's what really matters, isn't it?

Actually I, and I suspect a number of others who posted in this thread, don't give a hoot about his comments. What irritated me enough to bother commenting was seeing so many people staunchly defending what was clearly a very sub-par effort from him on this particular occasion (particularly with regard to video aspects of the camera).

And, others were responding to those who denigrated him by saying that he is a blogger whore who was intentionally trying to stir up controversy to increase hits on his website.

Enough of this cowardly assault on one man who has a great history and reputation. What a bunch of cowards! Talk about group-think!

Ming Thein cannot for obvious reasons defend himself on this forum and why should he? He has done nothing wrong. But I am going to post here, without permission, what he has to say on the GH3 issue, and I hope the discussion ends. Ming THein is NOT a politician who, being elected to public office, becomes privy to public floggings. A private citizen should be immune from such public trials. Where are the moderators, here?

partial re-post:

http://blog.mingthein.com/2013/04/04/not-just-a-review-2/

"What’s the difference between my reviews and others?
Firstly, experience. Between my current career as a working professional commercial photographer, and my previous career as a editor of a photography magazine, I’ve used alot of gear. That means I’ve got a large basis for comparison. My primary objective is to produce great images, keep clients coming back and attract new ones,  which means that output quality and consistency are paramount; everything else is secondary. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: look at the quality of the sample images as a litmus test to the validity of the statements of the reviewer. I’m not inclined to trust somebody who shows crap samples, clearly has no pride in their own work then makes pronouncements one way or another. It speaks of a lack of quality control and discipline. Secondly, objectivity: I’m not paid by the camera companies (and some actually don’t like me), so I’ll say the truth: if it’s great, I’ll say it’s great. If it’s crap, I’ll say it’s crap. If it’s really crap, I probably won’t even review it in the first place.*

*Case in point: I recently had a Panasonic GH3 on loan. There were enough operational/ usability issues with it that I actively disliked using it to the point that I didn’t want to review it. Image quality is great – it has the same sensor as the OM-D – but if you care about the viewfinder, UI, or the way your camera feels in the hand, then I really don’t have anything good to say about it – especially not at the price they’re asking.

Next, I’m a physicist by training: this means I’m schooled in the scientific method and do testing in a repeatable, objective way. If there are results that are unexpected, I’ll repeat the tests to make sure it’s not an error I caused. If there’s really a problem, I’ll try to get hold of other samples to test for the same behaviour. I don’t make conclusions based on a single observation, unlike other reviewers**. Sample variation happens, and quality control in these days of consumer disposables seems to be optional, and it’s quite possible that what was observed was not typical behaviour of the group as a whole."

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Anders W
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Re: Blogger Ming Thein: GH3 a "consumer appliance"
In reply to captura, Apr 4, 2013

captura wrote:

MichaelKJ wrote:

Coby wrote:

Do you really  care about his comments  as long as the camera works for you?

Does the camera meet your needs?

That's what really matters, isn't it?

Actually I, and I suspect a number of others who posted in this thread, don't give a hoot about his comments. What irritated me enough to bother commenting was seeing so many people staunchly defending what was clearly a very sub-par effort from him on this particular occasion (particularly with regard to video aspects of the camera).

And, others were responding to those who denigrated him by saying that he is a blogger whore who was intentionally trying to stir up controversy to increase hits on his website.

Enough of this cowardly assault on one man who has a great history and reputation. What a bunch of cowards! Talk about group-think!

Ming Thein cannot for obvious reasons defend himself on this forum and why should he? He has done nothing wrong. But I am going to post here, without permission, what he has to say on the GH3 issue, and I hope the discussion ends. Ming THein is NOT a politician who, being elected to public office, becomes privy to public floggings. A private citizen should be immune from such public trials. Where are the moderators, here?

I see absolutely no problem with the fact that Ming Thein is being criticized on this forum as long as it is done in accordance with the DPR posting rules. Are you saying these rules are being violated in this thread? If so what would be your examples? Or are you saying that we should not be allowed to criticize anyone who in someone's view (in this case yours) "has a great history and reputation"?

As to Ming Thein's ability to defend himself on this forum, it's up to him whether he wants to monitor forum content and react to it. He already has a DPR user account and sometimes drops in to announce one of his blogs as exemplified here:

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/3337476

Anyone who does not already have an account can of course create one immediately if desired.

partial re-post:

http://blog.mingthein.com/2013/04/04/not-just-a-review-2/

"What’s the difference between my reviews and others?
Firstly, experience. Between my current career as a working professional commercial photographer, and my previous career as a editor of a photography magazine, I’ve used alot of gear. That means I’ve got a large basis for comparison. My primary objective is to produce great images, keep clients coming back and attract new ones,  which means that output quality and consistency are paramount; everything else is secondary. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: look at the quality of the sample images as a litmus test to the validity of the statements of the reviewer. I’m not inclined to trust somebody who shows crap samples, clearly has no pride in their own work then makes pronouncements one way or another. It speaks of a lack of quality control and discipline. Secondly, objectivity: I’m not paid by the camera companies (and some actually don’t like me), so I’ll say the truth: if it’s great, I’ll say it’s great. If it’s crap, I’ll say it’s crap. If it’s really crap, I probably won’t even review it in the first place.*

*Case in point: I recently had a Panasonic GH3 on loan. There were enough operational/ usability issues with it that I actively disliked using it to the point that I didn’t want to review it. Image quality is great – it has the same sensor as the OM-D – but if you care about the viewfinder, UI, or the way your camera feels in the hand, then I really don’t have anything good to say about it – especially not at the price they’re asking.

Next, I’m a physicist by training: this means I’m schooled in the scientific method and do testing in a repeatable, objective way. If there are results that are unexpected, I’ll repeat the tests to make sure it’s not an error I caused. If there’s really a problem, I’ll try to get hold of other samples to test for the same behaviour. I don’t make conclusions based on a single observation, unlike other reviewers**. Sample variation happens, and quality control in these days of consumer disposables seems to be optional, and it’s quite possible that what was observed was not typical behaviour of the group as a whole."

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LudwigVB
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Re: Has already been discussed here at great length
In reply to Jorginho, Apr 4, 2013

I think I'll avoid his reviews in future.

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captura
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Re: Blogger Ming Thein: GH3 a "consumer appliance"
In reply to Anders W, Apr 4, 2013

It's a tale of twin pagan gods, the OM-G E-M5 and the GH-3. The servants to these mechanistic objects of worship who practice on something called an 'internet forum' will permit no mere humans to break the unwritten but implied rules of object worship, laid down by a seemingly unconscious force. Any attempt to breach this wall will result in fresh hordes of loyal standard-bearers to rally 'round by endlessly repeating endless slogans.  Repeated enough times, the hope is that will eventually cause the object of threat go away so they may continue with their former cultist delusions.

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Anders W
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Re: Blogger Ming Thein: GH3 a "consumer appliance"
In reply to captura, Apr 4, 2013

captura wrote:

It's a tale of twin pagan gods, the OM-G E-M5 and the GH-3. The servants to these mechanistic objects of worship who practice on something called an 'internet forum' will permit no mere humans to break the unwritten but implied rules of object worship, laid down by a seemingly unconscious force. Any attempt to breach this wall will result in fresh hordes of loyal standard-bearers to rally 'round by endlessly repeating endless slogans.  Repeated enough times, the hope is that will eventually cause the object of threat go away so they may continue with their former cultist delusions.

It seems you misunderstood my post. What I am defending is the freedom of speech. While I am in favor of freedom of religion too, that's irrelevant in this case.

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bluelemmy
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Re: Blogger Ming Thein: GH3 a "consumer appliance"
In reply to StevenN, Apr 5, 2013

One bloke doesn't like a camera. So what?

He is entitled to his opinion but makes the most basic mistake that a reviewer can make. That is, 'because I don't like it, it is no good'. You don't expect that from a reviewer, it shows a measure of narcissism.

I experienced a lot of it when I was doing an online cartoons for a newspaper. There were three basic reactions. 1-I find these funny/ 2-I do not find these funny/ 3.These are not funny.

The third comment just shows an inability to empathise. But then, when you see how emotional people can get over glass and metal materials assembled on a factory floor, no surprise.

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