Blogger Ming Thein: GH3 a "consumer appliance"

Started Mar 27, 2013 | Discussions
Rol Lei Nut
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Re: Blogger Ming Thein: GH3 a "consumer appliance"
In reply to Winston Loo, Mar 28, 2013

Winston Loo wrote:

This has been mentioned before.  He's biased towards olympus and regularly reviews olympus gear.

Unquestionable evidence of an evil and unbalanced mind... 

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Prime85
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Re: Blogger Ming Thein: GH3 a "consumer appliance"
In reply to Rol Lei Nut, Mar 28, 2013

Ming is super talented as a photographer and unbiased as a reviewer.  If you already know a GH3 is the camera for you then a review is not needed.  I like the parts of his review where he points out the problems with a camera.  Which he does in every review.

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Paul Amyes
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Re: Blogger Ming Thein: GH3 a "consumer appliance"
In reply to StevenN, Mar 28, 2013

Let's be honest ALL digital cameras are now consumer appliances. They are designed for mass production and consumption. I don't see it as a bad thing, it's just how things are nowadays. When I bought my first SLR you expect it to have 15 years or so, now with digital the rate of change means that you keep something maybe 3 years and then upgrade.

I don't understand why people have got so bent out of shape with this review. So Ming Thein didn't like the GH3. BIG DEAL! I don't particularly care for it either, but then I'm not so keen on the EM5. It is just one person's opinion, it's not part of some global conspiracy or evidence of psychological instability. Sure you may not understand his motives, but hey if we all liked the same thing that would mean there would only be one type of camera and that would be pretty boring.

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vin 13
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So What?...
In reply to StevenN, Mar 28, 2013

....  his blog, his opinion, what's the problem?  I took one look at the GH3 and thought "A body that size defeats the point of the system" I didn't even pick it up.  It's a bit pricey too, but to each their own.

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Pablo4
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Re: Has already been discussed here at great length
In reply to Jorginho, Mar 28, 2013

Jorginho wrote:

My take:

Ming is a very skilled photographer, the Gh3 was still put to good use to him.

As a reviewer I think he lacks an unbiased stance.
- he did not take the camera out ot often because he didn't like to. This gives other camera's a better chance to get aquanted with if he likes them. This personal facto interferes with objectivity
- He is clueless about video. I think GH3 was specially designed and aimed for video. if you don't understand it, you cannot review the cam as whole
- He uses absolutistic remarks on what clearly is subjective. You cannot always use "I think" or "personally" but in my view, he should have doen this much more.

I have seen this before from him. Soform what I have seen from him he should try to me objective and if he does not have the skills to test the camera for what it is aimed for, may be he should leave the reviewing up to those that can putthe cam to the test.

I wouldn't like to take out that brick of a camera either.

I mean... the same or worse performance than the M5, larger, heavier, no IBIS, more expensive... wtf? Yuck.

http://camerasize.com/compare/#381,289

See how that tiny sensor looks ridiculous in that unnecessarily blown-up body :>
Btw. It is the same size as FF cameras.

Is this what you call MICRO 4/3?

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danijel973
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Re: Blogger Ming Thein: GH3 a "consumer appliance"
In reply to amtberg, Mar 28, 2013

amtberg wrote:
Agreed.  When a reviewer starts off by saying that he didn't really try out the camera fully because he was just turned off by the "feel" of it ... you can pretty much disregard what follows.

Maybe, but buying such a camera without an added degree of caution would be... unwise.

For instance, I tried NEX 6 quickly yesterday, in low light. Honestly, I expected better ergonomics and speed, but the EVF is twitchy, AF was slow and everything was as tiny and crowded as on my E-PL1. The user experience of all those EVIL cameras is far behind any SLR, and it's a big problem. If a camera feels fiddly, if it doesn't fit like a glove, it is going to annoy you and interfere with your photographic experience as a whole. Yes, the images matter but the way a camera handles while you think about framing, about background and about the exact point of focus is equally important. If the camera annoys you, there's only so much that you're going to take before you throw the damn thing away.

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marike6
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His "review" more like "first impressions"
In reply to StevenN, Mar 28, 2013

When I read his comments about the GH3, it was obvious that he was out of his element.  The GH3 is a hybrid camera, and IMHO, if you no nothing about video, you really should either pass on reviewing the camera or review it only as a photographic tool.

Here the "reviewer" is trying his best to sound like he knows what he's talking about:  "The target market of videographers are bound to be unhappy as rolling shutter artefacts are terrible."

In contrast, from Andrew Reid at EOSHD, someone who actually does know about HDSLR video cameras:

"It is the best DSLR for 1080/60p and 50p and rolling shutter. The skew and jello of a rolling shutter is considerably reduced especially if shooting 60/50p. This is an advantage over the Blackmagic Cinema Camera which has a much more severe rolling shutter. The codec is 50Mbit in these modes, much higher than the 28Mbit you get on the $4500 Sony FS100. The GH3 is $1299. The image is far nicer than all the current NEX cameras (7, 5N, 5R, 6 and VG-900)."

The above quote is from this article at EOSHD:

http://www.eoshd.com/content/9264/panasonic-gh3-my-short-test-civilian

So you see that rolling shutter has actually been reduced.  But rolling shutter is one thing that camera geeks talk about to make themselves sound smart, but for professional videographers, unless you are filming a lot of movement, it just is not a major issue.

For someone who wants GH2 level video quality, with the added bonus of 1080p60, and the essential addition of the headphone jack for audio monitoring (a feature missing on the GH2), but with dramatically better still IQ and a more robust build quality, the GH3 is a no-brainer.

I love my GH2, but as a still camera, it's not wonderful.  With good lenses, it's capable of good IQ. But let's be honest, the sensor is not wonderful.   So if all the wonderful technology in the GH3 makes it feel like "a consumer appliance" to some blogger, so be it.  I couldn't possibly care less.

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christosthegreek
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Re: Blogger Ming Thein: GH3 a "consumer appliance"
In reply to StevenN, Mar 28, 2013

You should have got an OMD then you wouldn't feel so bad LOL

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Christos

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Pixnat2
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That's called freedom of speech
In reply to StevenN, Mar 28, 2013

Ming runs a blog, he gives his opinion about a camera, he has the full rights to do this.

And everybody has the right to have another opinion.

Internet is like a big cofee bar where everybody can give his/her opinion freely. One may agree or one may not. One may read or one may not.

But if you want to debate about his opinion, it's better to do it on Ming's blog than starting a sterile thread here.

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danijel973
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Re: That's called freedom of speech
In reply to Pixnat2, Mar 28, 2013

Yes, but given the quality of his work his opinion has much more value than, honestly, anyone else's.

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s_grins
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Re: Blogger Ming Thein: his blog is a hollow read.
In reply to StevenN, Mar 28, 2013

I've stopped reading this blog as well as many other long time ago

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Looking for equilibrium...

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Pixnat2
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That's called freedom of choice
In reply to danijel973, Mar 28, 2013

danijel973 wrote:

Yes, but given the quality of his work his opinion has much more value than, honestly, anyone else's.

You have the freedom to choose the opinions that you want to believe or value.

Ultimately, when it's about opinions, the best thing is to make your own opinion by trying yourself the camera.

I agree about Ming's quality work, and above all, I enjoy his pictures!

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Jorginho
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Re: Has already been discussed here at great length
In reply to Pablo4, Mar 28, 2013

I mean... the same or worse performance than the M5, larger, heavier, no IBIS, more expensive... wtf? Yuck.

I am not really interested either, have Gh2 and EPL5. More awaiting new OMD. But if thatis the case, you won't take it may be it is better to just say that you are not going to review the cam for that reason.
You are reviewing this for an audience. It seems totally unnecessary for the audience to know that you don't like the cam at first sight (too big...) and then let that prejudice/preference filter through almost constantly in your review. to my mind, it becomes way too personal in this way and is not very informative for a broader audience. I am not interested in a reviewers prejudices, I am interested in what he coudl do with it. Of course he can make a remark that the size is not for him etc.

http://camerasize.com/compare/#381,289

See how that tiny sensor looks ridiculous in that unnecessarily blown-up body :>
Btw. It is the same size as FF cameras.

First of all: this is a system I think. Look how it is still much smaller with similar lenses

GH3 - D7100- D600

With longer zooms..

Gh3 D7100 D600 with 70-200 equiv

If anything seems to have no advantage anymore when it comes to size, it is an APS-c weathersealed D7100..The m43 cam is easily and visibly MUCH smaller again.

For someone who shoots movie, this kind of size difference is not a problem at all. Also: it weighs a lot less. Thsi cam is aimed at videographers and fot enthusiasts. if you only shoot pics, OMD or G5 and other smaller m43 cams are a better choice it seems.

Also: this is a system. if it is only the body, buy a NEX.

Is this what you call MICRO 4/3?

I buy a system camera to buy lenses. I need to carry them. Size and weight are important. No DSLR can touch m43s not even one with a very large body. The difference is indeed quite big.

Also, the difference with the OMD of course is there, but it is very small compared to a weathersealed APS-c cam with a lens.

GH3 OMD D7100 with 70-200 equiv

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Jorginho
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Re: I agree.
In reply to MichaelKJ, Mar 28, 2013

I completely agree with the scientists (I am in no position to disagree as they researched itI did not).

Indeed it is also not Black and white (all bias is not equal). Ming seems to be much more biased than some other reviews. It is also true that we have our biases but we are not all aware of them to the same degree. So some people can see them and adjust their judgement while others even when they are pointed to them are completely in denial.

Ming has been pointed to this on some occassions and seems to be non ciritcal about his bias in general.

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Jorginho
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Re: Blogger Ming Thein: GH3 a "consumer appliance"
In reply to Winston Loo, Mar 28, 2013

Although this seems ad hominem and not to the point I would like to add that he indeed does not seem to handle fair criticism (not nashing or debunking) all too well. Also sad, because fair criticism can make you better in what you do I feel.

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joe talks photography
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Re:
In reply to Jorginho, Mar 28, 2013

there may be a ring of truth to what the reviewer says but I will take what he said as one person's opinion. After saying this, I have seen his photos and skills seem good. I did find I didn't like his take on another camera, but, more than anything, I don't like his approach to sharing a take. He is not skilled at being effective there.

Joe

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MichaelKJ
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Re: His "review" more like "first impressions"
In reply to marike6, Mar 28, 2013

marike6 wrote:

When I read his comments about the GH3, it was obvious that he was out of his element.  The GH3 is a hybrid camera, and IMHO, if you no nothing about video, you really should either pass on reviewing the camera or review it only as a photographic tool.

Here the "reviewer" is trying his best to sound like he knows what he's talking about:  "The target market of videographers are bound to be unhappy as rolling shutter artefacts are terrible."

In contrast, from Andrew Reid at EOSHD, someone who actually does know about HDSLR video cameras:

"It is the best DSLR for 1080/60p and 50p and rolling shutter. The skew and jello of a rolling shutter is considerably reduced especially if shooting 60/50p. This is an advantage over the Blackmagic Cinema Camera which has a much more severe rolling shutter. The codec is 50Mbit in these modes, much higher than the 28Mbit you get on the $4500 Sony FS100. The GH3 is $1299. The image is far nicer than all the current NEX cameras (7, 5N, 5R, 6 and VG-900)."

The above quote is from this article at EOSHD:

http://www.eoshd.com/content/9264/panasonic-gh3-my-short-test-civilian

Andrew Reid has promised to post his review of the GH3 soon. I'm looking forward to reading it.

So you see that rolling shutter has actually been reduced.  But rolling shutter is one thing that camera geeks talk about to make themselves sound smart, but for professional videographers, unless you are filming a lot of movement, it just is not a major issue.

For someone who wants GH2 level video quality, with the added bonus of 1080p60, and the essential addition of the headphone jack for audio monitoring (a feature missing on the GH2), but with dramatically better still IQ and a more robust build quality, the GH3 is a no-brainer.

I love my GH2, but as a still camera, it's not wonderful.  With good lenses, it's capable of good IQ. But let's be honest, the sensor is not wonderful.   So if all the wonderful technology in the GH3 makes it feel like "a consumer appliance" to some blogger, so be it.  I couldn't possibly care less.

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mjack101
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Re: Blogger Ming Thein: GH3 a "consumer appliance"
In reply to StevenN, Mar 28, 2013

Just look at his pictures, they are inspirational. He shoots with a D800E, an EM5 and an M9 (amongst others). I shoot with a 5diii and an XE1 but that doesn't prevent me from appreciating his skill as a photographer and his opinions as a writer. I don't always agree with everything he says but that is a good thing.

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captura
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Re: Blogger Ming Thein: GH3 a "consumer appliance"
In reply to gskolenda, Mar 28, 2013

gskolenda wrote:

captura wrote:

That's his own opinion, and he's entitled to it.

On the other hand he loves the PEN mini and also the LX-7 in this review:

http://blog.mingthein.com/2013/03/25/leica-d-lux-6-panasonic-lx7/

And then, he personally built the "multispectral Sony NEX-5" for IR photography.

Competition: Win the multispectral Sony NEX-5!

http://blog.mingthein.com/2013/01/07/bwchallenge/

Another Oly Fan Boy, Dump the Nex!

That's right, I'm an Oly fanboy, and Panasonic, Sony, and Canon too. Because I own all of those and they're mostly fine. There's a small faction in this forum which has taken up with a pyramid of camera-worship, and the GH-3 and the OMG are at the very top. To them, this is more important than any meaningful discussion. To them, minor hate crimes are more fun, and this thread is a prime example of that.

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amtberg
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Re: Blogger Ming Thein: GH3 a "consumer appliance"
In reply to danijel973, Mar 28, 2013

danijel973 wrote:

amtberg wrote:
Agreed.  When a reviewer starts off by saying that he didn't really try out the camera fully because he was just turned off by the "feel" of it ... you can pretty much disregard what follows.

Maybe, but buying such a camera without an added degree of caution would be... unwise.

For instance, I tried NEX 6 quickly yesterday, in low light. Honestly, I expected better ergonomics and speed, but the EVF is twitchy, AF was slow and everything was as tiny and crowded as on my E-PL1. The user experience of all those EVIL cameras is far behind any SLR, and it's a big problem. If a camera feels fiddly, if it doesn't fit like a glove, it is going to annoy you and interfere with your photographic experience as a whole. Yes, the images matter but the way a camera handles while you think about framing, about background and about the exact point of focus is equally important. If the camera annoys you, there's only so much that you're going to take before you throw the damn thing away.

I agree that ergonomics is important, but I've not seen anyone OTHER than Ming do anything but heap praise on the GH3's ergonomics.  In fact I'd say that the GH3 has the best ergonomics of any EVIL camera out there, and not by a small margin.  That's why I find his review so bizarre.

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