D7100 gets DXO'd

Started Mar 27, 2013 | Discussions
Dirk W
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Re: D7100 gets DXO'd
In reply to ajamils1, Mar 28, 2013

I could imagine this slight difference being due to the missing AA filter. With the AA filter the picture is a little bit softer and I suppose therefore noise is less destructive to detail.

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six34sigma
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Re: D7100 gets DXO'd
In reply to Tony Rogers, Mar 28, 2013

Not sure regarding the debate about the scores. For me.

1. Its better than my D90

2. Its better than a D600 - I don't have to clean it repeatedly or wind up with oil on the sensor. The scores to ME are immaterial. Perhaps the problem goes away in time, maybe it does not.

The scores are the scores, do I use 14 EV of DR at ISO 100. No idea, but do I get a brilliant picture if I have composed and exposed it well, absolutely. Am as much of a geek as the next guy and do look at the scores but the values must be taken with a grain of salt IMHO.

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Fred Mueller
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overlooked in the new Nikons ...
In reply to wlad, Mar 28, 2013

First let me say that wlad is essentially correct - a cloudless sunny day landdscape scene typically has mid "teens" stops of dynamic range - but the deep shadows occupy such a small portion of the photograph that these plugged shadows are not too significant visually, even to the point of going un-noticed ...

but also, the D800/D600, and now D7100, have jpg-picstyle engines that do not disable the contrast slider when you enable ADL (can't remember if the 7000 does this). This is a great improvement in the JPG engine.

If you shoot "Neutral", set contrast down two clicks, and put ADL on "extra high" you will get a JPG with a very very broad tone curve that holds most of the dynamic range these new sensors can span ... you may think the resulting JPG is "flat" (especially if the scene had less than extreme contrast values) but adding contrast to a JPG is possible, with pleasing results, while recovering highlight or shadows in a too steep 8 bit tone curve is not possible.

For me this makes the possibility of shooting JPGs much more attractive -  and I have been doing just that with my D600 much more often than I ever did with my D700, which is a RAW only body (for me) because it has very steep JPG curves.

With this in mind - consider shooting outdoor athletics with the 7100 (settings = neutral/low contrast/ADL high)  the RAW challenged buffer actually will be adequate, and your files will likely only need a little contrast boost in post.

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Bailey151
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Re: D7100 gets DXO'd
In reply to coudet, Mar 28, 2013

coudet wrote:

Not just in theory.

Hype about removing it is, well, marketing hype. Same sensor as D5200, same results.

Well to be fair it's a fact that the AA filter blurs the details to an extent............real world impact? That's a whole 'nother debate

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Mako2011
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override
In reply to Fred Mueller, Mar 28, 2013

Fred Mueller wrote:

but also, the D800/D600, and now D7100, have jpg-picstyle engines that do not disable the contrast slider when you enable ADL (can't remember if the 7000 does this). This is a great improvement in the JPG engine.

If you shoot "Neutral", set contrast down two clicks, and put ADL on "extra high" you will get a JPG with a very very broad tone curve that holds most of the dynamic range these new sensors can span ... you may think the resulting JPG is "flat" (especially if the scene had less than extreme contrast values) but adding contrast to a JPG is possible, with pleasing results, while recovering highlight or shadows in a too steep 8 bit tone curve is not possible.

The in-camera contrast/brightness sliders are not disabled and still usable, but ADL overrides those user settings when ADL is active. You can see the effect in CNX2 by turning ADL off.

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Minnesota_Steve
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Re: D7100 gets DXO'd
In reply to Tony Rogers, Mar 28, 2013

A update by DxO to cover image quality of the 1.3 crop mode will be very useful.

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john Clinch
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Re: And no AA filter and Re: With greater resolution.
In reply to wlad, Mar 28, 2013

wlad wrote:

rhlpetrus wrote:

And most people will never actually reach the 14EV of DR or the extra color depth these cameras allow for. It's just beyond most (including mine) people's abilities.

Every time you take a shot during a sunny day, you make use of the 14 EV dynamic range. In fact, even then the camera has to decide if it wants to preserve the highlights or shadows - because 14EV is far from enough to capture a scene in direct sunlight without clipping any channels.

On a sunny day even my ixus can produce a histogram unclipped at both ends and the D70 comfortably in RAW.

I think wide dynamic range is a huge benefit but you have to work to use and only rarely was the D70 out of range

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nfpotter
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Re: overlooked in the new Nikons ...
In reply to Fred Mueller, Mar 28, 2013

Fred Mueller wrote:

First let me say that wlad is essentially correct - a cloudless sunny day landdscape scene typically has mid "teens" stops of dynamic range - but the deep shadows occupy such a small portion of the photograph that these plugged shadows are not too significant visually, even to the point of going un-noticed ...

but also, the D800/D600, and now D7100, have jpg-picstyle engines that do not disable the contrast slider when you enable ADL (can't remember if the 7000 does this). This is a great improvement in the JPG engine.

If you shoot "Neutral", set contrast down two clicks, and put ADL on "extra high" you will get a JPG with a very very broad tone curve that holds most of the dynamic range these new sensors can span ... you may think the resulting JPG is "flat" (especially if the scene had less than extreme contrast values) but adding contrast to a JPG is possible, with pleasing results, while recovering highlight or shadows in a too steep 8 bit tone curve is not possible.

For me this makes the possibility of shooting JPGs much more attractive -  and I have been doing just that with my D600 much more often than I ever did with my D700, which is a RAW only body (for me) because it has very steep JPG curves.

With this in mind - consider shooting outdoor athletics with the 7100 (settings = neutral/low contrast/ADL high)  the RAW challenged buffer actually will be adequate, and your files will likely only need a little contrast boost in post.

No.  There is NOTHING correct about generalizations.  SOME scenes have wide DR.  Some don't.

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notpc
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exactly
In reply to nfpotter, Mar 28, 2013

Some of us who are very concerned about DOF want MORE of it at a given aperture, not less.

nfpotter wrote:

"Aren't concerned with DOF".

Probably one of the most retarded statements I've ever seen on this site.  Congrats.

PS - for me (and many, many others) FF is NOT an upgrade.

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Fred Mueller
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Except I did not generalize ...
In reply to nfpotter, Mar 29, 2013

and bright sunlit scenes do have huge dynamic range ... but don't loose sleep over it.

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nfpotter
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Re: Except I did not generalize ...
In reply to Fred Mueller, Mar 29, 2013

Fred Mueller wrote:

and bright sunlit scenes do have huge dynamic range ... but don't loose sleep over it.

I'm sorry, sir, but that is a complete generalization, and proves you don't have a clue about which you speak.

Divide light into 11 pieces, even in gradation from dark to light.  Not every scene you encounter will have stuff in both ends of the spectrum, regardless of how bright or dark the overall scene is.

One could easily have a scene that has tones that exist only in zones 6 through 10.  That's quite small DR, compared to what the tools we have available are capable of recording.

I've worked as an audio engineer for over 20 years. The same principles apply.

Put down the ego, and learn something.

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Fred Mueller
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Re: override
In reply to Mako2011, Mar 29, 2013

hi Mako

When I shoot JPG in my 600 -  with ADL  on, any setting - all the pic-style sliders are fully functioning and affect the JPG as you would expect - more or less contrast, higher or lower saturation, and so forth.

Not so with my D700.  ADL on greys out and defeats the contrast slider in all the 700 pic-style dialogs

Not sure what capture NX does - don't have it - maybe it behaves like the older cameras ??

best

Fred

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lock
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This will probably work in good light
In reply to Fred Mueller, Mar 29, 2013

But I doubt ADL will fit into it when the light is less favorable.

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John Sheehy
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Re: And no AA filter and Re: With greater resolution.
In reply to wlad, Mar 29, 2013

wlad wrote:

rhlpetrus wrote:

And most people will never actually reach the 14EV of DR or the extra color depth these cameras allow for. It's just beyond most (including mine) people's abilities.

Every time you take a shot during a sunny day, you make use of the 14 EV dynamic range. In fact, even then the camera has to decide if it wants to preserve the highlights or shadows - because 14EV is far from enough to capture a scene in direct sunlight without clipping any channels.

Whenever the DR of a single exposure with only one set of pixel sensitivities increases, it is just another way of saying that the background noise decreases.  That is always a good thing, unless it causes visible posterization, but no 14-bit sensor is in any danger of that at this time.

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John Sheehy
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Re: D7100 gets DXO'd
In reply to Danel, Mar 29, 2013

Danel wrote:

DXO is a good resource and measures and compares some important metrics, but they are hardly the last word concerning the image quality of a camera.  For example, they don't measure resolution, nor do they measure the potential improvement in acuity due to removal of the AA filter, or the moire that might result.  Further, they don't measure things like the camera's feature set, handling, and usability.  It would be a mistake to draw conclusions about the value of one camera versus another based solely on the DXO measurements.

Personally, I would not want to use a 24MP APS-C without an AA filter for shooting cityscapes, landscapes, etc with sharp lenses with low-diffraction f-stops.

With a 300-400mm lens and a 2x TC, however, it could be pretty useful, IMO; much better than my Canon 7D with its fairly strong AA filter.

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Mako2011
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compare
In reply to Fred Mueller, Mar 29, 2013

Fred Mueller wrote:

hi Mako

When I shoot JPG in my 600 -  with ADL  on, any setting - all the pic-style sliders are fully functioning and affect the JPG as you would expect - more or less contrast, higher or lower saturation, and so forth.

Very true....but it is not the same results had ADL been off as it overrides those settings.  A "5" contrast/brightness setting will not be applied the same with ADL off as with ADL on. In the ADL on scenario...it can also change one scene to the next.

Not so with my D700.  ADL on greys out and defeats the contrast slider in all the 700 pic-style dialogs

Agreed.

Not sure what capture NX does - don't have it - maybe it behaves like the older cameras ??

Doesn't behave different but lets you turn off ADL processing so you can see the effect and compare.

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