New Canon Rebel closing the gap on M4/3s

Started Mar 27, 2013 | Discussions
Hen3ry
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Re: New Canon Rebel closing the gap on M4/3s
In reply to Jere Landis, Mar 28, 2013

Jere Landis wrote:

I would really like to feel one of those new Rebels in hand, but doubt I'll ever have one. I think I'll just kick back and use what I have for now. It is so great to have so many nice cameras to choose from. I always thought I'd like to try the EPL3, thought having that LCD pivot would allow to brace it against your chest for better stability.

I use it eye level with the VF2 99% of the time; Guy uses it with the LCD. When I have to use the LCD, it is really handy to be able to tilt it down a little so as to limit the sky light falling on it.

Cheers, geoff

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Jere Landis
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Re: New Canon Rebel closing the gap on M4/3s
In reply to nrcole, Mar 28, 2013

Didn't say they were the same size, did I, only that they were closing the gap, meaning SOMEWHAT. A lot of people choose the GH2, GH3, and that is closer than the others.  DUDE!

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Re: Really, You want to pick and choose your argument?
In reply to MichaelKJ, Mar 28, 2013

MichaelKJ wrote:

Despite the fact that everyone knows the 500D is a poor choice for video, one videographer was able to make a terrific video that was praised by Philip Bloom.
a poor choice for video... while the 550D is as good as any crop DSLR I have seen.  The 550D is also very good at stills with good lenses, better than my 5D2 in some respects with a general lack of pattern banding at low ISOs.  I print the OMD and 550D up to A1, and they are pretty close indeed, but the advantage comes in lenses (where my Canon kit is significantly ahead) when shots are in focus.  Yet the PDAF on the Canon falters often enough to make the camera use awkward as it becomes a "view camera" for one off landscapes on the go.is 500DThe I wouldn't "go back" to DSLRs for scenics because the frustration of not trusting the focus (or exposure, relying on OVF) is enough to make m43 the most consistent approach.
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cheeky chooky
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Re: New Canon Rebel closing the gap on M4/3s
In reply to Jere Landis, Mar 28, 2013

Jere Landis wrote:

I've been a Rebel user for about three years, having used 10D,30D,40D, before that. I went to the Rebel because of size and weight. I've also been using M4/3s for about two years, being sort of taken by the size and mirrorless concept. In fact I have four of them. Since the coming along of new models every nine months or so, the previous models sell really cheap, thus I'm able to have the four. Every now and then, I get out the T2I, and each time I do it feels relaxing and sort of a release. I am still using M4/3s mostly, but can't figure out exactly why, lest it be the smaller size, and smaller bag to carry. If I am serious about the shots I want to take, that they may be enlarged and printed, I'd go for the T2I. With the coming of the new and smaller Rebel, it's tempting to rid myself of all and go for it. I think the only thing holding me back is the size of the lenses. Then again, if I did that I'm afraid I'd miss my EPM1, it's sooo easy to take with you. Not trying to stir up anything here, just random thoughts.

If it is lighter and smaller than the D5100 it should be great.  I have come to prefer the D5100 to the OM-D.

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digifan
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Re: Neither meat nor fish.
In reply to TrapperJohn, Mar 28, 2013

TrapperJohn wrote:

The little rebel still has a Canon APS registration distance, so it's correspondingly thick, and the glass is still large. This strikes me more as some marketing maven's shallow take on mirrorless rather than anything new. Get rid of the mirror, reduce the width of the body, and we're in business, right? Right...

That strikes me more as a last dying gasp of old technology, as compared to the EM5 or G5, which make the most out of the very small size, and are bristling with new ideas wrapped up in a small and slender package - even after a lens is installed.

I'm not saying the new Canon won't be good for some people, but it has neither the grip and stability of a larger DSLR, nor the compactness of a high end M43 body... or even a low end M43 body.

Quite right it's not here nor there, neither meat nor fish, it's nothing of all.

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digifan
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Re: The last tired iteration of a dated design.
In reply to Jere Landis, Mar 28, 2013

Jere Landis wrote:

I guess the lens size is the main hold back. If you want APS-C,you have to put up with a little more size. The question is, is there an advantage of sensor size that is worth it?

Not with the 100D/SL1. There absolutely no sensor size advantage in this case.

I read higher up you thought that there's always sensor size advantage, but that is a total misconception. Having a bigger sensor only has an advantage if the sensor tech is on the same level, and with this DSLR compared to an E-PM2/E-PL5/E-M5/GH3 this is not the case. Canon's sensor is behind.

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CollBaxter
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A brave and interesting post.
In reply to Jere Landis, Mar 28, 2013

Actually a lot of people are thinking that at the moment. As an Olympus user who has not bought into m4/3 for a lot of reasons  the release of the D100 is very interesting. Its also interesting  to people outside this forum and a few others  who want to go smaller but not tiny and retain the full functionality of a fully fledged DSLR system. Some users prefer a camera with a bit of meat behind it. The OMD is a great camera but it's not cheap and if you are such a user (Who likes a bit of feel to the camera)  by the time you have dressed it up to go out and get a job ( Added  grip and battery) it actually becomes an  expensive camera. (My personal felling)

And before there are comparisons of weight etc , etc  getting dug up there are a few reasons for my thoughts.  The D100 is the first real  small DSLR camera from the big boys with full DSLR systems and is now an alternative to people who want to go smaller and still have the backup of a fully fledged professional system. This is not knocking m4/3 all I am saying is that there is now an alternative for a lighter,  smaller camera with out have to start over .  As to lenses well they might be a bit bigger but you can mix and match form the many available right up a 800mm big white tube.

My opinion is that the GH3 is about the right size.

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Re: A brave and interesting post.
In reply to CollBaxter, Mar 28, 2013

CollBaxter wrote:

Actually a lot of people are thinking that at the moment. As an Olympus user who has not bought into m4/3 for a lot of reasons  the release of the D100 is very interesting. Its also interesting  to people outside this forum and a few others  who want to go smaller but not tiny and retain the full functionality of a fully fledged DSLR system. Some users prefer a camera with a bit of meat behind it. The OMD is a great camera but it's not cheap and if you are such a user (Who likes a bit of feel to the camera)  by the time you have dressed it up to go out and get a job ( Added  grip and battery) it actually becomes an  expensive camera. (My personal felling)

And before there are comparisons of weight etc , etc  getting dug up there are a few reasons for my thoughts.  The D100 is the first real  small DSLR camera from the big boys with full DSLR systems and is now an alternative to people who want to go smaller and still have the backup of a fully fledged professional system. This is not knocking m4/3 all I am saying is that there is now an alternative for a lighter,  smaller camera with out have to start over .  As to lenses well they might be a bit bigger but you can mix and match form the many available right up a 800mm big white tube.

My opinion is that the GH3 is about the right size.

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Nice to see you lurking here, Collin.  Imo, the fact that a long time 4/3 user is considering this camera is noteworthy.

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Re: But not the gap, regarding lenses sizes. No text.
In reply to Jere Landis, Mar 28, 2013

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YouDidntDidYou
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Re: Agree, 100d is design for existing canon user, won't appeal to native m43 owner
In reply to MichaelKJ, Mar 28, 2013

MichaelKJ wrote:

007peter wrote:

One_Oldman_4U wrote:

Cannon created the small body Canon EOS 100D/SL1 to prevent other Canon user from jumping to M4/3. The 100D/Sl1 still cannot beat the size and portability of the M4/3 specially the like of OM-D with comparable lenses. Just my take.

I agree with that assessment.  Canon 100d has a very strong pull on me because I shot with canon gear for many years.  I'm familiar with canon menu system, canon lens, and even bad canon quirks.

But I failed to see how a Canon 100d will attract any existing m43/Nex user to switch.

I agree, but I don't think that is what what Canon is trying to do.  Android phones didn't become the most popular phones in the world by getting iPhone users to switch.  Instead, for the most part, they became the most popular by attracting first time smartphone users.

Thus, the only market reason left for 100d is to keep existing canon dslr owner from leaving toward mirrorless setup by giving them something smaller than their 7d/60d/650d.

Wrong. The other important reason is to get P&S upgraders and owners of non-Canon DSLRs to buy the 100D instead of m43/NEX.  Another way to look at it is to consider what would happen to future m43 sales if only current m43 owners bought new m43 cameras.

IPhone is losing because of high pricing, snobbery, too few models and technology hold back sounds like canikon? Strangely iPhone does better in USA than the rest if the world sound like canikon?

The P&S upgrade market is tiny they will simply go to smartphones!!!!! Bridge camera owners maybe, consumer DSLR owners who feel they wasted their money on equipment which didn't work for them, enthusiast DSLR owners who want more agile, practical and creative cameras

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Re: A brave and interesting post.
In reply to MichaelKJ, Mar 28, 2013

MichaelKJ wrote:

CollBaxter wrote:

Actually a lot of people are thinking that at the moment. As an Olympus user who has not bought into m4/3 for a lot of reasons  the release of the D100 is very interesting. Its also interesting  to people outside this forum and a few others  who want to go smaller but not tiny and retain the full functionality of a fully fledged DSLR system. Some users prefer a camera with a bit of meat behind it. The OMD is a great camera but it's not cheap and if you are such a user (Who likes a bit of feel to the camera)  by the time you have dressed it up to go out and get a job ( Added  grip and battery) it actually becomes an  expensive camera. (My personal felling)

And before there are comparisons of weight etc , etc  getting dug up there are a few reasons for my thoughts.  The D100 is the first real  small DSLR camera from the big boys with full DSLR systems and is now an alternative to people who want to go smaller and still have the backup of a fully fledged professional system. This is not knocking m4/3 all I am saying is that there is now an alternative for a lighter,  smaller camera with out have to start over .  As to lenses well they might be a bit bigger but you can mix and match form the many available right up a 800mm big white tube.

My opinion is that the GH3 is about the right size.

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Nice to see you lurking here, Collin.  Imo, the fact that a long time 4/3 user is considering this camera is noteworthy.

Howzit

As to the considering . Well if I was to change systems it would probably be Nikon. But I am holding out for a while.

What I find interesting is that the alternatives for a smaller camera are starting to be come out.  Its taken m4/3 and others to get the big guys to make things smaller. Although the E-4XX range was also very small it was not 'fashionable' to have a small camera. It also had no IS capabilities other than a few pany lenses. Now that small is  fashionable the big two will move in. One must keep in mind the vast systems these two companies provide.  These type of cameras (D100) are a nice compromise on size with a complete system in place. There are  advantages of having  a OVF and a slapping mirror. There is little these small DSLRs can't do that m4/3 can do . It does not IMHO work the other way around. So we wait  and watch.

Yea I know the lenses are much bigger and can't fit in your pocket. ( Although some of the Pentax pancakes and the new canon  40m pancake can.  Actually I can fit the ZD35mm in my pocket or I can buy Big baggy and put the bigma in them ( Sort of).

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MichaelKJ
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Re: A brave and interesting post.
In reply to CollBaxter, Mar 28, 2013

CollBaxter wrote:

MichaelKJ wrote:

CollBaxter wrote:

Actually a lot of people are thinking that at the moment. As an Olympus user who has not bought into m4/3 for a lot of reasons  the release of the D100 is very interesting. Its also interesting  to people outside this forum and a few others  who want to go smaller but not tiny and retain the full functionality of a fully fledged DSLR system. Some users prefer a camera with a bit of meat behind it. The OMD is a great camera but it's not cheap and if you are such a user (Who likes a bit of feel to the camera)  by the time you have dressed it up to go out and get a job ( Added  grip and battery) it actually becomes an  expensive camera. (My personal felling)

And before there are comparisons of weight etc , etc  getting dug up there are a few reasons for my thoughts.  The D100 is the first real  small DSLR camera from the big boys with full DSLR systems and is now an alternative to people who want to go smaller and still have the backup of a fully fledged professional system. This is not knocking m4/3 all I am saying is that there is now an alternative for a lighter,  smaller camera with out have to start over .  As to lenses well they might be a bit bigger but you can mix and match form the many available right up a 800mm big white tube.

My opinion is that the GH3 is about the right size.

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Nice to see you lurking here, Collin.  Imo, the fact that a long time 4/3 user is considering this camera is noteworthy.

Howzit

As to the considering . Well if I was to change systems it would probably be Nikon. But I am holding out for a while.

What I find interesting is that the alternatives for a smaller camera are starting to be come out.  Its taken m4/3 and others to get the big guys to make things smaller. Although the E-4XX range was also very small it was not 'fashionable' to have a small camera. It also had no IS capabilities other than a few pany lenses. Now that small is  fashionable the big two will move in. One must keep in mind the vast systems these two companies provide.  These type of cameras (D100) are a nice compromise on size with a complete system in place. There are  advantages of having  a OVF and a slapping mirror. There is little these small DSLRs can't do that m4/3 can do . It does not IMHO work the other way around. So we wait  and watch.

Yea I know the lenses are much bigger and can't fit in your pocket. ( Although some of the Pentax pancakes and the new canon  40m pancake can.  Actually I can fit the ZD35mm in my pocket or I can buy Big baggy and put the bigma in them ( Sort of).

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Well said.

M4/3 meets most of my needs.  However, there are times when I miss my D70 and I continue to keep an eye on what Nikon is doing.  Canon DSLRs have never felt right in my hands, but my wife wouldn't consider using anything else.

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tgutgu
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Re: A brave and interesting post.
In reply to CollBaxter, Mar 28, 2013

CollBaxter wrote:

Actually a lot of people are thinking that at the moment. As an Olympus user who has not bought into m4/3 for a lot of reasons  the release of the D100 is very interesting. Its also interesting  to people outside this forum and a few others  who want to go smaller but not tiny and retain the full functionality of a fully fledged DSLR system. Some users prefer a camera with a bit of meat behind it. The OMD is a great camera but it's not cheap and if you are such a user (Who likes a bit of feel to the camera)  by the time you have dressed it up to go out and get a job ( Added  grip and battery) it actually becomes an  expensive camera. (My personal felling)

And before there are comparisons of weight etc , etc  getting dug up there are a few reasons for my thoughts.  The D100 is the first real  small DSLR camera from the big boys with full DSLR systems and is now an alternative to people who want to go smaller and still have the backup of a fully fledged professional system.

Your conclusion is incorrect. The camera body - unless it is as big as a EOS 1D series - isn't by far the main thing, which makes your photographic equipment small. It is the lenses! The EF and EF-S lenses are simply too big to convince a lot of people, who want a smaller camera system.

The selection of m4/3 lenses is already big enough to make 90% of photographers happy. Some special niches aren't yet covered, like tilt&shift lenses, extreme telephoto lenses, and some macro specialities, but that's it. So, for many, m4/3 is already full-fledged.

Therefore, I don't think that the EOS 100D is a major thread to m4/3. It rather shows that Canon is not willing to create something innovative and new, and shows that now is the time to switch, if you want to get small.

This is not knocking m4/3 all I am saying is that there is now an alternative for a lighter,  smaller camera with out have to start over .  As to lenses well they might be a bit bigger but you can mix and match form the many available right up a 800mm big white tube.

My opinion is that the GH3 is about the right size.

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amalric
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Re: A brave and interesting post.
In reply to tgutgu, Mar 28, 2013

tgutgu wrote:

CollBaxter wrote:

Actually a lot of people are thinking that at the moment. As an Olympus user who has not bought into m4/3 for a lot of reasons  the release of the D100 is very interesting. Its also interesting  to people outside this forum and a few others  who want to go smaller but not tiny and retain the full functionality of a fully fledged DSLR system. Some users prefer a camera with a bit of meat behind it. The OMD is a great camera but it's not cheap and if you are such a user (Who likes a bit of feel to the camera)  by the time you have dressed it up to go out and get a job ( Added  grip and battery) it actually becomes an  expensive camera. (My personal felling)

And before there are comparisons of weight etc , etc  getting dug up there are a few reasons for my thoughts.  The D100 is the first real  small DSLR camera from the big boys with full DSLR systems and is now an alternative to people who want to go smaller and still have the backup of a fully fledged professional system.

Your conclusion is incorrect. The camera body - unless it is as big as a EOS 1D series - isn't by far the main thing, which makes your photographic equipment small. It is the lenses! The EF and EF-S lenses are simply too big to convince a lot of people, who want a smaller camera system.

The selection of m4/3 lenses is already big enough to make 90% of photographers happy. Some special niches aren't yet covered, like tilt&shift lenses, extreme telephoto lenses, and some macro specialities, but that's it. So, for many, m4/3 is already full-fledged.

Therefore, I don't think that the EOS 100D is a major thread to m4/3. It rather shows that Canon is not willing to create something innovative and new, and shows that now is the time to switch, if you want to get small.

I subscribe entirely, there is no way that the mirrorbox will come back with a vengeance. It is simply fighting a rearward battle.

If people want big cameras with OVF there is plenty to choose from yet, but m4/3 is not about being small only. It is about going fully digital and having a competitive IQ with much bigger cameras.

Therefore it is forging ahead regardless. Live bulb/time is a good example of what no dSLR will be able to do.

Am.

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Chez Wimpy
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Re: A brave and interesting post.
In reply to amalric, Mar 28, 2013

amalric wrote:

Therefore it is forging ahead regardless. Live bulb/time is a good example of what no dSLR will be able to do.

If anything, that is the one new OMD feature that will be EASY to implement in a DSLR.  I am sure this Olympus "original" will be copied (again) in time.

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Re: New Canon Rebel closing the gap on M4/3s
In reply to Jere Landis, Mar 28, 2013

Jere,

I'm a previous D30, 20D, 40D, T3i, and 5D owner.

I will tell you what it's all about for me.....contrast detection auto focus. I get far more keepers with µ4/3 and will never have to calibrate a lens.

Still have all the Canon lenses and stuff, but hardly ever use them except for catching birds in flight. Just my 2 cents.

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Chez Wimpy
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Re: A brave and interesting post.
In reply to CollBaxter, Mar 28, 2013

CollBaxter wrote:

who want to go smaller but not tiny and retain the full functionality of a fully fledged DSLR system.

Which is what the previous rebels addressed... dropping a camera grip, shaving the left/top of the body matter nothing to portability in the scheme of things.  Rather they present an ergonomic challenge to standard camera use (large barreled lenses of all focal lengths now extend down past the camera body, finger-palm hand grip compromised with no change in lens weight = greater cantilever stress).  I was just shooting the moonset with my 550D this morning and considered again how awkward it handled with a 70-200/2.8IS (far worse balance than even my old GF1 + 45-200).  Right now, only a few legacy primes, the 18-55IS and small aperture telephotos (55-250 IS) feel "right" for walk-around on the rebel.

The new "slim" camera is nothing more than a cynical slight of hand to distract the masses, retain customers, and provide false hope of a course towards "miniaturization" - confusing an ignorant, yet otherwise would-go-mirrorless type, undecided consumer.

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Re: A brave and interesting post.
In reply to amalric, Mar 28, 2013

amalric wrote:

tgutgu wrote:

CollBaxter wrote:

Actually a lot of people are thinking that at the moment. As an Olympus user who has not bought into m4/3 for a lot of reasons  the release of the D100 is very interesting. Its also interesting  to people outside this forum and a few others  who want to go smaller but not tiny and retain the full functionality of a fully fledged DSLR system. Some users prefer a camera with a bit of meat behind it. The OMD is a great camera but it's not cheap and if you are such a user (Who likes a bit of feel to the camera)  by the time you have dressed it up to go out and get a job ( Added  grip and battery) it actually becomes an  expensive camera. (My personal felling)

And before there are comparisons of weight etc , etc  getting dug up there are a few reasons for my thoughts.  The D100 is the first real  small DSLR camera from the big boys with full DSLR systems and is now an alternative to people who want to go smaller and still have the backup of a fully fledged professional system.

Your conclusion is incorrect. The camera body - unless it is as big as a EOS 1D series - isn't by far the main thing, which makes your photographic equipment small. It is the lenses! The EF and EF-S lenses are simply too big to convince a lot of people, who want a smaller camera system.

The selection of m4/3 lenses is already big enough to make 90% of photographers happy. Some special niches aren't yet covered, like tilt&shift lenses, extreme telephoto lenses, and some macro specialities, but that's it. So, for many, m4/3 is already full-fledged.

Therefore, I don't think that the EOS 100D is a major thread to m4/3. It rather shows that Canon is not willing to create something innovative and new, and shows that now is the time to switch, if you want to get small.

I subscribe entirely, there is no way that the mirrorbox will come back with a vengeance. It is simply fighting a rearward battle.

Err Am if one looks at sales its still there and at this point does not need  a come back,  later maybe but not currently.

If people want big cameras with OVF there is plenty to choose from yet, but m4/3 is not about being small only. It is about going fully digital and having a competitive IQ with much bigger cameras.

Why the word competitive should it not be better or equal. As to fully digital you are referring to the viewfinder. Have you ever used a camera with a good optical viewfinder. WYSWYG. What you see is what you get and can make adjustments accordingly not what the camera presents to you or wht it thinks it should present to you.

Therefore it is forging ahead regardless. Live bulb/time is a good example of what no dSLR will be able to do

Why not . Correct me if I am wrong Am but if you flip the mirror up and lock it up the camera  (DSLR) can act exactly like a mirror less using the rear lCD. No.

Am.

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Collin
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CollBaxter
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Re: A brave and interesting post.
In reply to Chez Wimpy, Mar 28, 2013

Chez Wimpy wrote:

CollBaxter wrote:

who want to go smaller but not tiny and retain the full functionality of a fully fledged DSLR system.

Which is what the previous rebels addressed... dropping a camera grip, shaving the left/top of the body matter nothing to portability in the scheme of things.  Rather they present an ergonomic challenge to standard camera use (large barreled lenses of all focal lengths now extend down past the camera body, finger-palm hand grip compromised with no change in lens weight = greater cantilever stress).  I was just shooting the moonset with my 550D this morning and considered again how awkward it handled with a 70-200/2.8IS (far worse balance than even my old GF1 + 45-200).  Right now, only a few legacy primes, the 18-55IS and small aperture telephotos (55-250 IS) feel "right" for walk-around on the rebel.

The new "slim" camera is nothing more than a cynical slight of hand to distract the masses, retain customers, and provide false hope of a course towards "miniaturization" - confusing an ignorant, yet otherwise would-go-mirrorless type, undecided consumer.

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Its horse for courses. I was using the E-620 which is small but huge by your guys standards with the 50-200 f/2.8 with the EC14 it felt very cumbersome. But once I switched to the E-30 and grip it felt just right. Its like Goldilocks and the three bears each has their  chair , bowl and bed that fits their  style and body.

One shoe does not fit all some would suffer from pinched toes. Others would flop around in them.

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In reply to Jere Landis, Apr 11, 2013

Today at the an front-page article I was called fanboy/troll.

http://www.dpreview.com/news/2013/04/10/just-posted-canon-eos100d-rebel-sl1-preview-samples-gallery

I suppose it was because I wrote an massage regarding the EF-S lens lineup. I called it a joke. And I still think it is. Am I wrong? The EOS 100D is designed to take m4/3 head on. Shouldn't Canon than also make lenses for it to compete with the m4/3 lens lineup?

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