Question about Panasonic Lumix G Vario 100-300mm F4-5.6 OIS

Started Mar 27, 2013 | Discussions
SHood
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Re: Question about Panasonic Lumix G Vario 100-300mm F4-5.6 OIS
In reply to Anders W, Mar 28, 2013

Anders W wrote:

LTZ470 wrote:

Shutter Slap?...so your thinking thats what is causing the blurred EM5 shots?

My E-M5 has shutter shock issues between 1/20 and 1/200 (approximately) with the 100-300 as well as other longer lenses (40-150, 45-200, 75/1.8) and I have reasons to think that I have tested this more carefully than just about anyone else on this forum. For the 100-300, you need at least 1/250, preferably 1/320 regardless of whether you use IBIS or OIS. With the 100-300 at 300, the impact of the shock is clearly visible even when shooting from a pretty good tripod with long anti-shock enabled.

I put it down to IBIS and my technique first round...we shall see soon I'll shoot them all side x side birding and compare shutter speed, ISO, and F-Stops...

I don't think IBIS is causing the problem. It's just that it can't correct for the shutter shock, presumably because the speed/frequencies involved are far higher than those of human handshake. OIS can't either. The only lens where I have found a difference between IBIS and OIS when it comes to the ability to counter the shutter shock is with the 14-45. In this case, OIS is preferable on that ground.

Yes, I found the shutter slap is a limiting factor, even on my GH3.  I agree that 1/250s is a good starting point for consistent results.  But I have been finding good results with 1/200s if I use the Hi-speed burst as the shutter doesn't stay open between shots so there is less vibration after the first shot.  The negative is that you loose liveview but the slightly faster shutters speed is worth it to me.  I have tried the silent shutter but I noticed at most an additional 1/3 stop improvement but was concerned about the slow sensor read where movement can be skewed.  So the OIS also seems to be limited and not much benefit with the silent shutter in my use.

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Anders W
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Re: Question about Panasonic Lumix G Vario 100-300mm F4-5.6 OIS
In reply to SHood, Mar 28, 2013

SHood wrote:

Anders W wrote:

LTZ470 wrote:

Shutter Slap?...so your thinking thats what is causing the blurred EM5 shots?

My E-M5 has shutter shock issues between 1/20 and 1/200 (approximately) with the 100-300 as well as other longer lenses (40-150, 45-200, 75/1.8) and I have reasons to think that I have tested this more carefully than just about anyone else on this forum. For the 100-300, you need at least 1/250, preferably 1/320 regardless of whether you use IBIS or OIS. With the 100-300 at 300, the impact of the shock is clearly visible even when shooting from a pretty good tripod with long anti-shock enabled.

I put it down to IBIS and my technique first round...we shall see soon I'll shoot them all side x side birding and compare shutter speed, ISO, and F-Stops...

I don't think IBIS is causing the problem. It's just that it can't correct for the shutter shock, presumably because the speed/frequencies involved are far higher than those of human handshake. OIS can't either. The only lens where I have found a difference between IBIS and OIS when it comes to the ability to counter the shutter shock is with the 14-45. In this case, OIS is preferable on that ground.

Yes, I found the shutter slap is a limiting factor, even on my GH3.  I agree that 1/250s is a good starting point for consistent results.  But I have been finding good results with 1/200s if I use the Hi-speed burst as the shutter doesn't stay open between shots so there is less vibration after the first shot. The negative is that you loose liveview but the slightly faster shutters speed is worth it to me.

Interesting idea. You use burst mode to simulate the anti-shock setting available on Oly but not Pany bodies so that you get only the second part of the shock (that from the shutter opening for exposure and then closing again), not the first part (the shutter closing to prepare the sensor for exposure).

I have tried the silent shutter but I noticed at most an additional 1/3 stop improvement but was concerned about the slow sensor read where movement can be skewed.

Strange that you don't find more of an improvement from using the electronic shutter. Are you talking about the 100-300 at 300 specifically here or about the impact more generally? The slow sensor read-out (about 100 ms) of course limits its use anyway, but when you can use it, you have no shutter shock at all.

So the OIS also seems to be limited and not much benefit with the silent shutter in my use.

It could of course be that the OIS on the 100-300 isn't all that good so that when you eliminate one problem (shutter shock) you hit on another more or less immediately (not so efficient stabilization). I guess you are already aware that you should upgrade to the latest firmware of the 100-300 (the one which appeared about a year ago) if you haven't already. That promises improved OIS performance and in my testing with the G1 I was using at that point it did make a noticeable difference.

It would be interesting to see what the IBIS of the E-M5 could do with this lens if it were unhampered by shutter shock issues. But I am afraid there is no easy way to test that.

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SHood
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Re: Question about Panasonic Lumix G Vario 100-300mm F4-5.6 OIS
In reply to Anders W, Mar 28, 2013

Anders W wrote:

SHood wrote:

Anders W wrote:

LTZ470 wrote:

Shutter Slap?...so your thinking thats what is causing the blurred EM5 shots?

My E-M5 has shutter shock issues between 1/20 and 1/200 (approximately) with the 100-300 as well as other longer lenses (40-150, 45-200, 75/1.8) and I have reasons to think that I have tested this more carefully than just about anyone else on this forum. For the 100-300, you need at least 1/250, preferably 1/320 regardless of whether you use IBIS or OIS. With the 100-300 at 300, the impact of the shock is clearly visible even when shooting from a pretty good tripod with long anti-shock enabled.

I put it down to IBIS and my technique first round...we shall see soon I'll shoot them all side x side birding and compare shutter speed, ISO, and F-Stops...

I don't think IBIS is causing the problem. It's just that it can't correct for the shutter shock, presumably because the speed/frequencies involved are far higher than those of human handshake. OIS can't either. The only lens where I have found a difference between IBIS and OIS when it comes to the ability to counter the shutter shock is with the 14-45. In this case, OIS is preferable on that ground.

Yes, I found the shutter slap is a limiting factor, even on my GH3.  I agree that 1/250s is a good starting point for consistent results.  But I have been finding good results with 1/200s if I use the Hi-speed burst as the shutter doesn't stay open between shots so there is less vibration after the first shot. The negative is that you loose liveview but the slightly faster shutters speed is worth it to me.

Interesting idea. You use burst mode to simulate the anti-shock setting available on Oly but not Pany bodies so that you get only the second part of the shock (that from the shutter opening for exposure and then closing again), not the first part (the shutter closing to prepare the sensor for exposure).

I have tried the silent shutter but I noticed at most an additional 1/3 stop improvement but was concerned about the slow sensor read where movement can be skewed.

Strange that you don't find more of an improvement from using the electronic shutter. Are you talking about the 100-300 at 300 specifically here or about the impact more generally? The slow sensor read-out (about 100 ms) of course limits its use anyway, but when you can use it, you have no shutter shock at all.

So the OIS also seems to be limited and not much benefit with the silent shutter in my use.

It could of course be that the OIS on the 100-300 isn't all that good so that when you eliminate one problem (shutter shock) you hit on another more or less immediately (not so efficient stabilization). I guess you are already aware that you should upgrade to the latest firmware of the 100-300 (the one which appeared about a year ago) if you haven't already. That promises improved OIS performance and in my testing with the G1 I was using at that point it did make a noticeable difference.

It would be interesting to see what the IBIS of the E-M5 could do with this lens if it were unhampered by shutter shock issues. But I am afraid there is no easy way to test that.

Yes, I have the latest lens firmware and my comments were referring to handheld at 300mm which is where I use it 99% of the time.  On a tripod the silent shutter could be more useful if your subject is not moving.  I have not tested that.

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Anders W
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Re: Question about Panasonic Lumix G Vario 100-300mm F4-5.6 OIS
In reply to SHood, Mar 28, 2013

SHood wrote:

Anders W wrote:

SHood wrote:

Anders W wrote:

LTZ470 wrote:

Shutter Slap?...so your thinking thats what is causing the blurred EM5 shots?

My E-M5 has shutter shock issues between 1/20 and 1/200 (approximately) with the 100-300 as well as other longer lenses (40-150, 45-200, 75/1.8) and I have reasons to think that I have tested this more carefully than just about anyone else on this forum. For the 100-300, you need at least 1/250, preferably 1/320 regardless of whether you use IBIS or OIS. With the 100-300 at 300, the impact of the shock is clearly visible even when shooting from a pretty good tripod with long anti-shock enabled.

I put it down to IBIS and my technique first round...we shall see soon I'll shoot them all side x side birding and compare shutter speed, ISO, and F-Stops...

I don't think IBIS is causing the problem. It's just that it can't correct for the shutter shock, presumably because the speed/frequencies involved are far higher than those of human handshake. OIS can't either. The only lens where I have found a difference between IBIS and OIS when it comes to the ability to counter the shutter shock is with the 14-45. In this case, OIS is preferable on that ground.

Yes, I found the shutter slap is a limiting factor, even on my GH3.  I agree that 1/250s is a good starting point for consistent results.  But I have been finding good results with 1/200s if I use the Hi-speed burst as the shutter doesn't stay open between shots so there is less vibration after the first shot. The negative is that you loose liveview but the slightly faster shutters speed is worth it to me.

Interesting idea. You use burst mode to simulate the anti-shock setting available on Oly but not Pany bodies so that you get only the second part of the shock (that from the shutter opening for exposure and then closing again), not the first part (the shutter closing to prepare the sensor for exposure).

I have tried the silent shutter but I noticed at most an additional 1/3 stop improvement but was concerned about the slow sensor read where movement can be skewed.

Strange that you don't find more of an improvement from using the electronic shutter. Are you talking about the 100-300 at 300 specifically here or about the impact more generally? The slow sensor read-out (about 100 ms) of course limits its use anyway, but when you can use it, you have no shutter shock at all.

So the OIS also seems to be limited and not much benefit with the silent shutter in my use.

It could of course be that the OIS on the 100-300 isn't all that good so that when you eliminate one problem (shutter shock) you hit on another more or less immediately (not so efficient stabilization). I guess you are already aware that you should upgrade to the latest firmware of the 100-300 (the one which appeared about a year ago) if you haven't already. That promises improved OIS performance and in my testing with the G1 I was using at that point it did make a noticeable difference.

It would be interesting to see what the IBIS of the E-M5 could do with this lens if it were unhampered by shutter shock issues. But I am afraid there is no easy way to test that.

Yes, I have the latest lens firmware and my comments were referring to handheld at 300mm which is where I use it 99% of the time.  On a tripod the silent shutter could be more useful if your subject is not moving.  I have not tested that.

I am sure it would work very well on a tripod. The irony in my case is that I can do very long tripod exposures (e.g., one second) with the 100-300 at 300 with tack-sharp results (because the impact of the shock lasts much shorter than one second). But if I move up to about 1/100, I am in trouble.

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njlarsen
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Re: Question about Panasonic Lumix G Vario 100-300mm F4-5.6 OIS
In reply to rrr_hhh, Mar 28, 2013

rrr_hhh wrote:

I'd avoid the 100-300mm Panasonic on an Olympus body : its IQ isn't better than the 75-300mm Olympus, while the second version of the 75-300mm Olympus is now priced competitively with the Panasonia while beimju lighter at the same time.

Only those who have a Panasonic body and really need the OIS have a reason to buy the 100-300mm. I may have a bad copy of the 100-300mm, but mine isn't able to focus at infinite when used at longer length than 225mm, whether manually or with AF. The contrast also sinks dramatically at the long end.

I had a Panasonic when I ordered it and the Olympus first version was much more expensive, but with an E-M5 and the second version of the 75-300mm I don't see any reason to buy the Panasonic, on the contrary.

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rrr_hhh

I think you must have had a bad copy. I get Sharp moon shots when zoomed in completely.

Niels

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rrr_hhh
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Re: Question about Panasonic Lumix G Vario 100-300mm F4-5.6 OIS
In reply to njlarsen, Mar 28, 2013

njlarsen wrote:

rrr_hhh wrote:

I'd avoid the 100-300mm Panasonic on an Olympus body : its IQ isn't better than the 75-300mm Olympus, while the second version of the 75-300mm Olympus is now priced competitively with the Panasonia while beimju lighter at the same time.

Only those who have a Panasonic body and really need the OIS have a reason to buy the 100-300mm. I may have a bad copy of the 100-300mm, but mine isn't able to focus at infinite when used at longer length than 225mm, whether manually or with AF. The contrast also sinks dramatically at the long end.

I had a Panasonic when I ordered it and the Olympus first version was much more expensive, but with an E-M5 and the second version of the 75-300mm I don't see any reason to buy the Panasonic, on the contrary.

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rrr_hhh

I think you must have had a bad copy. I get Sharp moon shots when zoomed in completely.

I may have a bad copy, but when I sent it to Panasonic support center it came back with the mention that the lens "was inside of specifications"

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rrr_hhh

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Aleo Veuliah
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Re: Question about Panasonic Lumix G Vario 100-300mm F4-5.6 OIS
In reply to pavinder, Mar 28, 2013

pavinder wrote:

Just bought my OM-D today, and am considering which lenses to add on.  I currently only have the kit 12-50mm 3.5-6.3

My plan at the moment is to buy in the following order (when I have the cash)

1. Panasonic  35-100mm 2.8 - for longer shots and bright lens.

2. Panasonic 12-35mm 2.8 - brighter than the kit lens (but with rumours of an upcoming Olympus zoom with similar FL range I'm happy to hold off on this a while)

3. Panasonic 100-300mm 4.0-5.6 - all reviews and opinions indicate it's the best long lens.  I also saw a second hand lens at a good price today.

But I'm a little unsure of the 100-300mm and wondering whether I should wait on this too, mainly because the lens is getting on for 3 years old so I wonder if there a strong likelihood of a new lens being released to supercede this, either a brighter lens to complete a Panasonic f2.8 trio, or maybe a comparable Olympus?

The 100-300mm is indeed a good lens, it is not f/2.8, but it is a matter of rising the ISO a bit and quality is good, if necessary to rise more you can always clean it a bit on post processing.

I think that we still have to wait to see a long focal length zoom with wider apertures.


Further to this, would a 100-300mm f2.8 lens be:

a) possible to make   or

b) prohibitively heavy/large/expensive  anyway?

Thanks for your opinions.

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Aleo Veuliah
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Re: Question about Panasonic Lumix G Vario 100-300mm F4-5.6 OIS
In reply to LTZ470, Mar 28, 2013

LTZ470 wrote:

pavinder wrote:

Just bought my OM-D today, and am considering which lenses to add on.  I currently only have the kit 12-50mm 3.5-6.3

My plan at the moment is to buy in the following order (when I have the cash)

1. Panasonic  35-100mm 2.8 - for longer shots and bright lens.

2. Panasonic 12-35mm 2.8 - brighter than the kit lens (but with rumours of an upcoming Olympus zoom with similar FL range I'm happy to hold off on this a while)

3. Panasonic 100-300mm 4.0-5.6 - all reviews and opinions indicate it's the best long lens.  I also saw a second hand lens at a good price today.

But I'm a little unsure of the 100-300mm and wondering whether I should wait on this too, mainly because the lens is getting on for 3 years old so I wonder if there a strong likelihood of a new lens being released to supercede this, either a brighter lens to complete a Panasonic f2.8 trio, or maybe a comparable Olympus?

Further to this, would a 100-300mm f2.8 lens be:

a) possible to make   or

b) prohibitively heavy/large/expensive  anyway?

Thanks for your opinions.

EM5 100-300 shots...

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Very good results.


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LTZ470
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Re: Question about Panasonic Lumix G Vario 100-300mm F4-5.6 OIS
In reply to Aleo Veuliah, Mar 28, 2013

GH2 100-300 Moon:

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LTZ470
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Re: Question about Panasonic Lumix G Vario 100-300mm F4-5.6 OIS
In reply to LTZ470, Mar 28, 2013

EM5 100-300

EM5 Soccer

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Aleo Veuliah
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Re: Very good pictures LTZ. No text.
In reply to LTZ470, Mar 28, 2013

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LTZ470
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Re: Question about Panasonic Lumix G Vario 100-300mm F4-5.6 OIS
In reply to LTZ470, Mar 28, 2013

More EM5 Soccer...

More EM5 100-300 Soccer Shots

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nick101
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Re: Question about Panasonic Lumix G Vario 100-300mm F4-5.6 OIS
In reply to PAUL TILL, Mar 28, 2013

PAUL TILL wrote:

Have you totally lost the plot? That link is for the 40-150mm.

Apparently, yes. I'll shut up

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Lindsay D
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Re: Question about Panasonic Lumix G Vario 100-300mm F4-5.6 OIS
In reply to pavinder, Mar 28, 2013

Pavinder, I use the Panasonic 100-300 extensively for my animal photography and I find it to be excellent. For the subject matter, I don't feel there is necessarily any advantage to having a fast aperture given the considerable magnification of this lens. I've written about it quite a lot on my Blog, but I was out with it today shooting some birds: http://lindsaydobsonphotography.com/pets/panasonic-100-300-lens-birds/

I really don't see the point of waiting to see if a totally different incarnation of something is going to appear, particularly when there is no evidence or argument in favour of it. If I were you I would just go and buy whatever you need or fancy, and enjoy it.

However, if you don't need quite so much reach but still want a fast aperture then the 35-100 takes some beating. I am also a big fan of the 40-150R, for light weight, small size, and optical quality it's a marvel.

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texinwien
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The D5200 EXIFs from I-R are BS
In reply to LTZ470, Mar 28, 2013

LTZ470, imaging resource has made a clear statement about many of their Nikon test image EXIFs being bogus. Specifically, they use a Sigma lens that has a software bug that causes it to report a narrower aperture in the EXIFs than was actually used when coupled with some Nikons at some apertures, thereby significantly understating the exposure the Nikons got on some shots. They have repeated this statement on some Nikon DSLR reviews where the issue comes up.

The EXIFs are bogus, and don't support your erroneous claim that the E-M5 meters slower than most other cameras. Those are the facts.

See here for more info and instructions on how to find imaging resource's statement on the issue.

tex

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Martin.au
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Re: The D5200 EXIFs from I-R are BS
In reply to texinwien, Mar 28, 2013

texinwien wrote:

LTZ470, imaging resource has made a clear statement about many of their Nikon test image EXIFs being bogus. Specifically, they use a Sigma lens that has a software bug that causes it to report a narrower aperture in the EXIFs than was actually used when coupled with some Nikons at some apertures, thereby significantly understating the exposure the Nikons got on some shots. They have repeated this statement on some Nikon DSLR reviews where the issue comes up.

The EXIFs are bogus, and don't support your erroneous claim that the E-M5 meters slower than most other cameras. Those are the facts.

See here for more info and instructions on how to find imaging resource's statement on the issue.

tex

Cool. I had wondered about that.

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LTZ470
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Re: The D5200 EXIFs from I-R are BS…so what is Nex-7 as well?
In reply to Martin.au, Mar 28, 2013

Mjankor wrote:

texinwien wrote:

LTZ470, imaging resource has made a clear statement about many of their Nikon test image EXIFs being bogus. Specifically, they use a Sigma lens that has a software bug that causes it to report a narrower aperture in the EXIFs than was actually used when coupled with some Nikons at some apertures, thereby significantly understating the exposure the Nikons got on some shots. They have repeated this statement on some Nikon DSLR reviews where the issue comes up.

The EXIFs are bogus, and don't support your erroneous claim that the E-M5 meters slower than most other cameras. Those are the facts.

See here for more info and instructions on how to find imaging resource's statement on the issue.

tex

Cool. I had wondered about that.

So why is the Nex-7 twice the shutter speed?…lol…bogus…if I tell you the moon is made out of cheese you find some crackers...

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Anders W
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Re: The D5200 EXIFs from I-R are BS…so what is Nex-7 as well?
In reply to LTZ470, Mar 29, 2013

LTZ470 wrote:

Mjankor wrote:

texinwien wrote:

LTZ470, imaging resource has made a clear statement about many of their Nikon test image EXIFs being bogus. Specifically, they use a Sigma lens that has a software bug that causes it to report a narrower aperture in the EXIFs than was actually used when coupled with some Nikons at some apertures, thereby significantly understating the exposure the Nikons got on some shots. They have repeated this statement on some Nikon DSLR reviews where the issue comes up.

The EXIFs are bogus, and don't support your erroneous claim that the E-M5 meters slower than most other cameras. Those are the facts.

See here for more info and instructions on how to find imaging resource's statement on the issue.

tex

Cool. I had wondered about that.

So why is the Nex-7 twice the shutter speed?…lol…bogus…if I tell you the moon is made out of cheese you find some crackers...

It seems you are the cracker-finder here LTZ. You are buying all the false leads one after the other instead of checking the real evidence.

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Martin.au
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Re: The D5200 EXIFs from I-R are BS…so what is Nex-7 as well?
In reply to LTZ470, Mar 29, 2013

LTZ470 wrote:

Mjankor wrote:

texinwien wrote:

LTZ470, imaging resource has made a clear statement about many of their Nikon test image EXIFs being bogus. Specifically, they use a Sigma lens that has a software bug that causes it to report a narrower aperture in the EXIFs than was actually used when coupled with some Nikons at some apertures, thereby significantly understating the exposure the Nikons got on some shots. They have repeated this statement on some Nikon DSLR reviews where the issue comes up.

The EXIFs are bogus, and don't support your erroneous claim that the E-M5 meters slower than most other cameras. Those are the facts.

See here for more info and instructions on how to find imaging resource's statement on the issue.

tex

Cool. I had wondered about that.

So why is the Nex-7 twice the shutter speed?…lol…bogus…if I tell you the moon is made out of cheese you find some crackers...

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No. You're suggesting we ignore the actual, calibrated tests, in favor of some images taken under uncertain lighting conditions.

Actually, interesting cameras to choose. The OM-D is apparently 1/3stop one way from the standard (although a few people have seen data thasuggests it's less than that. The Nex 7 is the other way. So, both cameras are at most 1/3 of a stop off, so neither are cheating with their ISO, however there may actually be a visible difference between them. I'm interested to see the back to back tests.

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LTZ470
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Re: The D5200 EXIFs from I-R are BS…so what is Nex-7 as well?
In reply to Anders W, Mar 29, 2013

Anders W wrote:

LTZ470 wrote:

Mjankor wrote:

texinwien wrote:

LTZ470, imaging resource has made a clear statement about many of their Nikon test image EXIFs being bogus. Specifically, they use a Sigma lens that has a software bug that causes it to report a narrower aperture in the EXIFs than was actually used when coupled with some Nikons at some apertures, thereby significantly understating the exposure the Nikons got on some shots. They have repeated this statement on some Nikon DSLR reviews where the issue comes up.

The EXIFs are bogus, and don't support your erroneous claim that the E-M5 meters slower than most other cameras. Those are the facts.

See here for more info and instructions on how to find imaging resource's statement on the issue.

tex

Cool. I had wondered about that.

So why is the Nex-7 twice the shutter speed?…lol…bogus…if I tell you the moon is made out of cheese you find some crackers...

It seems you are the cracker-finder here LTZ. You are buying all the false leads one after the other instead of checking the real evidence.

Yes, a crack in the OMD Shutter Speed vs other cameras, it's always slower and thats not good for what I shoot…maybe OK for you guys shooting statues and the like, but not for action and wildlife...

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--Really there is a God...and He loves you..
FlickR Photostream:
www.flickr.com/photos/46756347@N08/
Mr Ichiro Kitao, I support the call to upgrade the FZ50.
I will not only buy one but two no questions asked...

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