Colors of DP1M, DP2M & DP3M pretty close

Started Mar 27, 2013 | Discussions
BobNL
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Colors of DP1M, DP2M & DP3M pretty close
Mar 27, 2013

I used the x.rite colorchecker to set a custom white balance for all three cameras. Then used manual exposure to shoot the chart making the framing approximately similar. -Made a small mistake with DP3M though, Isomehow it switched to a faster shutterspeed, 1/3 of a stop- Shots are taken mere seconds apart, light was natural but pretty stable overcast. In SPP I adjusted the white balance using the second grey from the top left. On all three that meant an adjustment of 2Y+2M. Saved the file as ProphotoRGB 8-bit TIFF. And did the readings in Photoshop using a 11x11 pixel color pricker.

As far as I'm concerned this resulted in pretty similar color responses. I did not find any big deviations. So my conclusions; (when using a custom white balance) the three cameras yield pretty similar color responses.

DP1M

DP2M

DP3M

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SandyF
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Re: Colors of DP1M, DP2M & DP3M pretty close
In reply to BobNL, Mar 27, 2013

Hi Bob, thanks for the comparison. Did you try, what do you see, using a pre-set such as sunlight wb rather than setting a custom wb? Or.... auto wb?

Best regards, Sandy
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BobNL
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Re: Colors of DP1M, DP2M & DP3M pretty close
In reply to SandyF, Mar 27, 2013

SandyF wrote:

Hi Bob, thanks for the comparison. Did you try, what do you see, using a pre-set such as sunlight wb rather than setting a custom wb? Or.... auto wb?

Best regards, Sandy
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nope, not yet. I first wanted as much variables out as possible. Will try later what the other WB settings do.

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SandyF
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Re: Colors of DP1M, DP2M & DP3M pretty close
In reply to BobNL, Mar 27, 2013

good, yes I understand. Using a custom wb essentially eliminates the hardware variable.... but I'd suggest re-shooting without even that 1/3 stop variable in shutter speed!

After wb setting, of course which SPP colormode one uses to process makes a huge difference in "color" ... even on one camera alone. In theory colormode setting on camera doesn't affect the RAW, only the JPEG. But as you've seen with the variables in base wb processing, I wonder if colormode on-cam has some subtle effect? I have my DP2Merrill on default, which I assume is standard colormode, which is what I generally use in processing, rather than neutral which other users may prefer.

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vbd70
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Re: Colors of DP1M, DP2M & DP3M pretty close
In reply to BobNL, Mar 27, 2013

BobNL wrote:

I used the x.rite colorchecker to set a custom white balance for all three cameras. Then used manual exposure to shoot the chart making the framing approximately similar. -Made a small mistake with DP3M though, Isomehow it switched to a faster shutterspeed, 1/3 of a stop- Shots are taken mere seconds apart, light was natural but pretty stable overcast. In SPP I adjusted the white balance using the second grey from the top left. On all three that meant an adjustment of 2Y+2M. Saved the file as ProphotoRGB 8-bit TIFF. And did the readings in Photoshop using a 11x11 pixel color pricker.

As far as I'm concerned this resulted in pretty similar color responses. I did not find any big deviations. So my conclusions; (when using a custom white balance) the three cameras yield pretty similar color responses.

DP1M

DP2M

DP3M

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Thank you Bob, very instructive. There are, in fact, very minor differences between the three cameras (not just between the DP1/DP2 versus the DP3), which I think might be attributed to test conditions. Discrepancies don't seem so large as to justify different hardware or even FW process between the cameras.

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Vieri

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Johan Borg
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Re: Colors of DP1M, DP2M & DP3M pretty close
In reply to BobNL, Mar 27, 2013

Interesting, but I'd like to see the same test but with DP2 or SD15 vs the Merrills. One can easily spot the difference between a DP2, SD15 and DP2M shot in the wild, so I'd trust this test more if it did reveal those well-known differences in a controlled environment.

The area where DP2M struggles compared to the older DP2 (and DP3M?) is with delicate brown tones and shadows, not sure if this test could show that at all.

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BobNL
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Re: Colors of DP1M, DP2M & DP3M pretty close
In reply to vbd70, Mar 27, 2013

vbd70 wrote:

BobNL wrote:

I used the x.rite colorchecker to set a custom white balance for all three cameras. Then used manual exposure to shoot the chart making the framing approximately similar. -Made a small mistake with DP3M though, Isomehow it switched to a faster shutterspeed, 1/3 of a stop- Shots are taken mere seconds apart, light was natural but pretty stable overcast. In SPP I adjusted the white balance using the second grey from the top left. On all three that meant an adjustment of 2Y+2M. Saved the file as ProphotoRGB 8-bit TIFF. And did the readings in Photoshop using a 11x11 pixel color pricker.

As far as I'm concerned this resulted in pretty similar color responses. I did not find any big deviations. So my conclusions; (when using a custom white balance) the three cameras yield pretty similar color responses.

DP1M

DP2M

DP3M

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Thank you Bob, very instructive. There are, in fact, very minor differences between the three cameras (not just between the DP1/DP2 versus the DP3), which I think might be attributed to test conditions. Discrepancies don't seem so large as to justify different hardware or even FW process between the cameras.

Best,

Vieri

Test conditions were scientifically not 100% perfect of course. I just wanted to have an idea if any of the differences as proclaimed are indeed so big. I now think that if they exist, they are minimal. What might differ is the rendition of the DP lenses. Maybe there is something to be found. In any case I think I will try custom white balance more often.

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Kendall Helmstetter Gelner
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In reply to BobNL, Mar 27, 2013

I was going to try the same test but you did a near perfect job at it.  This bears out what I was seeing in more casual comparisons shot so far...

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BobNL
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Re: Colors of DP1M, DP2M & DP3M pretty close
In reply to Johan Borg, Mar 27, 2013

Johan Borg wrote:

Interesting, but I'd like to see the same test but with DP2 or SD15 vs the Merrills. One can easily spot the difference between a DP2, SD15 and DP2M shot in the wild, so I'd trust this test more if it did reveal those well-known differences in a controlled environment.

Unfortunately I don't have either of those two cameras.

The area where DP2M struggles compared to the older DP2 (and DP3M?) is with delicate brown tones and shadows, not sure if this test could show that at all.

Rendition is indeed very different from the older DP cameras. Struggles? Mmm won't say that. That it needs a different approach/technique, yes.

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larryj
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In reply to BobNL, Mar 27, 2013

for a very good analysis of the 3 DPM cameras.  I don't as yet have a DPM and wondered how they compare to the SD1/M under the same test conditions.  I shoot a lot of my shots with a custom WB and wondered how it would compare?

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Raist3d
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Thanks for posting. On the DP2M/DP3M...
In reply to BobNL, Mar 27, 2013

doing a proportion between the lowest RGB and the highest RGB suggests a small shift of color in the lower right purplish blue square. The pink one (one below the grey) shifts a tiny bit also but much closer between two. The green one is pretty much the same and the grey is identical.

This is a small sample (well done), hard to tell if this is a consistent shift there and how other colors may or may not shift. Would be interesting to grab a shot on a car with homogeneous color in a landscape or something.

- Ricardo

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panpen
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Re: Colors of DP1M, DP2M & DP3M pretty close
In reply to BobNL, Mar 28, 2013

I have both, DP2M and DP3M and I too don't see a difference in color. Who started this nonsense in the first place?

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vbd70
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Re: Colors of DP1M, DP2M & DP3M pretty close
In reply to panpen, Mar 28, 2013

panpen wrote:

I have both, DP2M and DP3M and I too don't see a difference in color. Who started this nonsense in the first place?

Don't ask, he is here and gets pi$$ed easily if someone dares criticise his findings! (Hint: check LL for an article on the DP3...)

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Vieri

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HBowman
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Re: Colors of DP1M, DP2M & DP3M pretty close
In reply to vbd70, Mar 28, 2013

I started this  and still see THE difference. Red luminance of the DP2m is higher (or less adjusted) than the DP3m. Color mode of the DP3m is not the same as the DP2m, as I stated and as I continue to state.

The next generation of DP, probably after the cash back, will reach the same level. The Dp3m is adjusted compared to the other DPm. Like The DP2s was compared to the DP2.

I do not think I had a faulty camera nor models changed skin in some months.

If some of you are newcomers in this brand I suggest you read the forum a little bit more. The color shift of the SD1m, who freakin exist and is a fact, for us, professional, is exacerbated in the DP2m and does not exist in the DP3m.

On this very forum I'm in contact with some professionals (who do not care to post here) and managed to get accurate result/variations over time with the DP2m but after color calibration and custom WB in neutral mode ... I speak about art reproduction professional, not flower shooters.

A simple D700 or K5 is more color accurate than a DP2m without pp... This is not the case with the DP3m >> he is superior.

This is not necessary with the DP3m because standard mode of the DP3m is equivalent to the neutral mode of the DP2m (roughly).

I owned all sigma camera from the SD14, all. This is not the case of probably 85% of the ppl who post here... There is a color difference (even minimal) between ALL sigma cameras over the generations, ALL.

My wild guess, for the DP2m, SD1m (probably at a serial level) is that the filter between red and green was not that adjusted thus ending in this brown saturation and cadaveric rendering of all skin tones. There is Soooooo much much example over the web... just wake up or consult an ophthalmologist.

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HBowman
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Re: Colors of DP1M, DP2M & DP3M pretty close
In reply to HBowman, Mar 28, 2013

Of course, some may Pixel peep to come close and erase this differences but I speak about direct raw output. The one who pp or adjust something just fake and bias the real result. The Dp3m is just naturally more accurate without any adjustments (especially white balance, if correctly mastered by the operator of course ...).

If it is due only to the lens ... what a hell of a lens then !!

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HBowman
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Re: Colors of DP1M, DP2M & DP3M pretty close
In reply to HBowman, Mar 28, 2013

And I do not understand you Bob ... to try try to prove the contrary ... Are you blind to not see this difference ?? Or just like contradictions ?? I'm amazed.

Of course, I do have examples, real examples of what I claim but I will show it when time will come. The more funny in it, is that I gift those X3F samples to one or two ppl here and they know it.

That show the true nature of some individuals here and lead me on my choice for eventual future cooperation's work. The choice will be very quick.

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BobNL
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Re: Colors of DP1M, DP2M & DP3M pretty close
In reply to HBowman, Mar 28, 2013

HBowman wrote:

And I do not understand you Bob ... to try try to prove the contrary ... Are you blind to not see this difference ?? Or just like contradictions ?? I'm amazed.

oh Hulyss calm down a little. I noticed I like working with the DP3M more than the DP2M so I try to find out why. Is it the color or is it something else. Why shouldn't I? Just to back you up? Try to respect other opinions and argue from there. There not one universal truth, open up your mind and the rest will follow.

Of course, I do have examples, real examples of what I claim but I will show it when time will come. The more funny in it, is that I gift those X3F samples to one or two ppl here and they know it.

Show! Talk is cheap as they say here.

That show the true nature of some individuals here and lead me on my choice for eventual future cooperation's work. The choice will be very quick.

Come on, stop putting other people down. The challenge is to work with people who respect, not with people who just adore. Sometimes, or even often a different opinion among collaborators can yield much better results. It keeps everyone sharp.

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What a nonsense
In reply to HBowman, Mar 28, 2013

HBowman wrote:

Of course, some may Pixel peep to come close and erase this differences but I speak about direct raw output. The one who pp or adjust something just fake and bias the real result. The Dp3m is just naturally more accurate without any adjustments (especially white balance, if correctly mastered by the operator of course ...).

If it is due only to the lens ... what a hell of a lens then !!

'I speak about direct raw output' - what's that meant to be? Doesn't make any sense at all.

'The DP3M is just naturally more accurate without any adjustments' - naturally?

'The one who pp or adjust just fake and bias the real result'

Seriously? What the heck is the 'real result' and what is 'fake' wth pp (post processing)?

Granted - English isn't your first language. But even so: what a complete nonsense.

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HBowman
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Re: What a nonsense
In reply to mrkr, Mar 28, 2013

mrkr wrote:

HBowman wrote:

Of course, some may Pixel peep to come close and erase this differences but I speak about direct raw output. The one who pp or adjust something just fake and bias the real result. The Dp3m is just naturally more accurate without any adjustments (especially white balance, if correctly mastered by the operator of course ...).

If it is due only to the lens ... what a hell of a lens then !!

'I speak about direct raw output' - what's that meant to be? Doesn't make any sense at all.

'The DP3M is just naturally more accurate without any adjustments' - naturally?

'The one who pp or adjust just fake and bias the real result'

Seriously? What the heck is the 'real result' and what is 'fake' wth pp (post processing)?

Granted - English isn't your first language. But even so: what a complete nonsense.

Where is the non sense ??

Take a photo , export it in jpeg mode without touching any cursor. Are you sure that English is YOUR native language ??

C'mon guys... This start to be ridiculous (and not by my side).

Damn, between grumpy old men and Fame seekers, we are wonderfully served on this forum. So much bellicosity !!

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HBowman
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Re: What a nonsense
In reply to HBowman, Mar 28, 2013

I think some medic firms should come on this forum and give freely some large stocks of benzodiazepine and bromazepam. I would probably sort a lot of problems

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