DPR's downhill slide continues with the Sony NEX 6 Review.

Started Mar 27, 2013 | Discussions
Richard Franiec
Senior MemberPosts: 2,221Gear list
Like?
Re: I would suggest...
In reply to chillgreg, Mar 28, 2013

that if you see so much wrong with the DPR review, you should visit "User reviews" and write your own to your liking. Why start another inflammatory thread on Forums?

Regards

Richard

 Richard Franiec's gear list:Richard Franiec's gear list
Sigma DP2 Merrill Canon EOS-1D Mark IV Canon EOS-1D X Canon EOS M Panasonic Lumix DMC-GM1 +5 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
tkbslc
Veteran MemberPosts: 8,380Gear list
Like?
Re: talk about long and boring......
In reply to chillgreg, Mar 28, 2013

chillgreg wrote:

tkbslc wrote:

chillgreg wrote:

tkbslc wrote:

chillgreg wrote:

I'm not offended at all. As long as good manners are on offer, say your piece.

However meandering and lengthy for those that prefer short, sharp and blunt, there is plenty of substance to be found.

I disagree.  It was much of the same old whining topped with a doomsday title.

Ah, there you are! I'd wondered where you'd gotten to lately! Thought I spotted you under the bridge on the way over. Thanks for dropping by!

Nice!

Seriously, though, what was your intended goal by writing a scathing 10 paragraph flame about how this site is in the garbage can just waiting to be compacted?  Certainly you didn't expect praise, did you?

The goal of the whole exercise was to attain more of your (endless supply of) derision! Bam success! Again thanks for your time and effort I wish I knew you personally!

But now I have a response to write for someone that is interested. Later amigo!

Greg

More irony, as I imagine the author of the Nex6 review felt like writing a similar response to you!

It sounds like you are a well adjusted, happy individual, so it makes this thread even more interesting from a psychology perspective.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
DonA2
Senior MemberPosts: 2,089Gear list
Like?
Re: I would suggest...
In reply to Richard Franiec, Mar 28, 2013

Richard Franiec wrote:

that if you see so much wrong with the DPR review, you should visit "User reviews" and write your own to your liking. Why start another inflammatory thread on Forums?

Regards

Richard

Well, he has repented, sort of.  Your 'write your own review'  is an excellent suggestion.  If nothing else, he is definitely a good writer.

-- hide signature --

Don V. Armitage

 DonA2's gear list:DonA2's gear list
Canon PowerShot S2 IS Canon PowerShot SX10 IS Canon PowerShot S100 Canon PowerShot SX40 HS
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
chillgreg
Senior MemberPosts: 1,103Gear list
Like?
Re: talk about long and boring......
In reply to tkbslc, Mar 28, 2013

tkbslc wrote:

chillgreg wrote:

tkbslc wrote:

chillgreg wrote:

tkbslc wrote:

chillgreg wrote:

I'm not offended at all. As long as good manners are on offer, say your piece.

However meandering and lengthy for those that prefer short, sharp and blunt, there is plenty of substance to be found.

I disagree.  It was much of the same old whining topped with a doomsday title.

Ah, there you are! I'd wondered where you'd gotten to lately! Thought I spotted you under the bridge on the way over. Thanks for dropping by!

Nice!

Seriously, though, what was your intended goal by writing a scathing 10 paragraph flame about how this site is in the garbage can just waiting to be compacted?  Certainly you didn't expect praise, did you?

The goal of the whole exercise was to attain more of your (endless supply of) derision! Bam success! Again thanks for your time and effort I wish I knew you personally!

But now I have a response to write for someone that is interested. Later amigo!

Greg

More irony, as I imagine the author of the Nex6 review felt like writing a similar response to you!

It sounds like you are a well adjusted, happy individual, so it makes this thread even more interesting from a psychology perspective.

Well professionally he probably just shrugged and said "you can't please all of the people...". Personally he might have wanted to punch me in the nose lol...

Yes irony, sarcasm and a healthy dose of self deprecation keep oneself from taking oneself too seriously. I'd much rather laugh than be angry. It takes less effort and releases endorphins into the brain, a free feelgood drug!

I didn't expect praise, in fact I had the plastic raincoat at the ready... but I did want to cut through the mustard and reach DPR's awareness.

Generally speaking, even if you're critical, as long as you are critical of a person's actions rather than them personally, and are polite, then you have a much better chance of being listened to and achieving positive outcome.

Greg

 chillgreg's gear list:chillgreg's gear list
Ricoh GR Panasonic Lumix DMC-FZ200 Sony RX100 II
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
chillgreg
Senior MemberPosts: 1,103Gear list
Like?
Re: I would suggest...
In reply to DonA2, Mar 28, 2013

DonA2 wrote:

Richard Franiec wrote:

that if you see so much wrong with the DPR review, you should visit "User reviews" and write your own to your liking. Why start another inflammatory thread on Forums?

Regards

Richard

Well, he has repented, sort of.  Your 'write your own review'  is an excellent suggestion.  If nothing else, he is definitely a good writer.

-- hide signature --

Don V. Armitage

Well thank you kind Sir. Maybe I shall do a mini review of the 5R. It certainly deserves one, living in the shadow of it's big brothers.

Using Richard Franiec's logic (who may not be a troll, but didn't do himself any favours with such a pointless comment), if I didn't like my meal at a restaurant, I should just go and cook my own meal. Or if my mechanic didn't service my car to my satisfaction, I should buy some tools and do it myself. Maybe some people prefer to work that way.

My favourite restaurant and mechanic enjoy the open and honest discourse I have with them, and appreciate my continued patronage and referrals rather than seeing me take my business elsewhere, potentially spreading negativity about them.

All good

Greg

 chillgreg's gear list:chillgreg's gear list
Ricoh GR Panasonic Lumix DMC-FZ200 Sony RX100 II
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Richard Franiec
Senior MemberPosts: 2,221Gear list
Like?
Re: I would suggest...
In reply to chillgreg, Mar 28, 2013

chillgreg wrote:

DonA2 wrote:

Richard Franiec wrote:

that if you see so much wrong with the DPR review, you should visit "User reviews" and write your own to your liking. Why start another inflammatory thread on Forums?

Regards

Richard

Well, he has repented, sort of.  Your 'write your own review'  is an excellent suggestion.  If nothing else, he is definitely a good writer.

-- hide signature --

Don V. Armitage

Well thank you kind Sir. Maybe I shall do a mini review of the 5R. It certainly deserves one, living in the shadow of it's big brothers.

My suggestion stands.

Using Richard Franiec's logic (who may not be a troll, but didn't do himself any favours with such a pointless comment), if I didn't like my meal at a restaurant, I should just go and cook my own meal. Or if my mechanic didn't service my car to my satisfaction, I should buy some tools and do it myself. Maybe some people prefer to work that way.

Troll? How? Favours? I don't look for one. Pointless? I thought that my comment was right on point.

My favourite restaurant and mechanic enjoy the open and honest discourse I have with them, and appreciate my continued patronage and referrals rather than seeing me take my business elsewhere, potentially spreading negativity about them.

All good

Greg

Patronage for this website is not required. In other words, if you are not happy with the service, go somewhere else and leave satisfied "customers" alone.

Regards,

Richard

 Richard Franiec's gear list:Richard Franiec's gear list
Sigma DP2 Merrill Canon EOS-1D Mark IV Canon EOS-1D X Canon EOS M Panasonic Lumix DMC-GM1 +5 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Jeff Keller
dpreview AdminPosts: 30Gear list
Like?
Re: DPR's downhill slide continues with the Sony NEX 6 Review.
In reply to chillgreg, Mar 28, 2013

chillgreg wrote:

I've always enjoyed DCR and Jeff has a nice style. But as I said if things don't move forward they stagnate. Dances With Wolves and Avatar weren't too long, but Waterworld was... Jeff was brought on board to add value and a fresh perspective. Perhaps I was a tad hypercritical about this articular review; as I said I am biased and if it was for another camera it might not have tipped me over. But that's mere conjecture now.

I'm sure as a pro journo for many years Jeff has thick skin and won't let one person's opinion hurt his feelings. In fact I'd bet he appreciates sincere honesty rather than false platitudes.

Thanks for your reply.

Greg

To be fair, the majority of this review was based on what was already written by others. I'm hoping that my voice will be more obvious in reviews that I've written entirely myslef. Also, we are working on making reviews more engaging to read, so look for some changes in that area in the not-too-distant future.

Jeff

-- hide signature --

Jeff Keller
Senior Editor, DPReview.com

 Jeff Keller's gear list:Jeff Keller's gear list
Canon PowerShot S95 Canon EOS 5D Mark III Canon EF 17-40mm f/4.0L USM Canon EF 24-105mm f/4L IS USM Canon EF 70-200mm f/4L IS USM +2 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
robert1955
Senior MemberPosts: 1,728
Like?
Re: I would suggest...
In reply to DonA2, Mar 28, 2013

DonA2 wrote:

... If nothing else, he is definitely a good writer.
-- hide signature --

Don V. Armitage

No, he is given to verbosity

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Cy Cheze
Senior MemberPosts: 2,028
Like?
Two perfect solutions
In reply to chillgreg, Mar 28, 2013

1) Write your own reviews.  DPR, to its credit, allows this.

2) Buy one of these: http://www.ostrich-pillow.com/

The latter might have great therapeutic value for all sorts of product fans troubled by conflicting information.  Also doubles as an ET costume, if you want to hook up with other wandering space voyagers.

By the way, there IS a valid reason to include the spec lists in the reviews, since this should allow one to screen cameras of different  by specific criteria, and it should also force the reviewer to be cognizant of the details enumerated.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
robert1955
Senior MemberPosts: 1,728
Like?
Re: DPR's downhill slide continues with the Sony NEX 6 Review.
In reply to Jeff Keller, Mar 28, 2013

Don't be too defensive, it was a good review. For me the interesting parts where you discussed differences with other cameras [as a Nex7 user I'm interested in where Sony is going] and on usability and UI [if there is no generational change IQ is a pretty boring subject at present].

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
James Sherman
Senior MemberPosts: 2,319Gear list
Like?
Re: I would suggest...
In reply to Richard Franiec, Mar 28, 2013

Richard Franiec wrote:

chillgreg wrote:

DonA2 wrote:

Richard Franiec wrote:

that if you see so much wrong with the DPR review, you should visit "User reviews" and write your own to your liking. Why start another inflammatory thread on Forums?

Regards

Richard

Well, he has repented, sort of.  Your 'write your own review'  is an excellent suggestion.  If nothing else, he is definitely a good writer.

-- hide signature --

Don V. Armitage

Well thank you kind Sir. Maybe I shall do a mini review of the 5R. It certainly deserves one, living in the shadow of it's big brothers.

My suggestion stands.

Using Richard Franiec's logic (who may not be a troll, but didn't do himself any favours with such a pointless comment), if I didn't like my meal at a restaurant, I should just go and cook my own meal. Or if my mechanic didn't service my car to my satisfaction, I should buy some tools and do it myself. Maybe some people prefer to work that way.

Troll? How? Favours? I don't look for one. Pointless? I thought that my comment was right on point.

My favourite restaurant and mechanic enjoy the open and honest discourse I have with them, and appreciate my continued patronage and referrals rather than seeing me take my business elsewhere, potentially spreading negativity about them.

All good

Greg

Patronage for this website is not required. In other words, if you are not happy with the service, go somewhere else and leave satisfied "customers" alone.

Patronage at any business is not required, but if the customers aren't happy....  The fact is that reviews are very slow coming and consequently very much less use to those interested in new cameras/lenses.  It seems that we get a teaser announcement fairly quickly, but for whatever reason the conclusions take way too long to be useful.  Perhaps a bit less quantitative data might speed things up.

 James Sherman's gear list:James Sherman's gear list
Olympus E-M1 Olympus 12-40mm F2.8
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Richard Franiec
Senior MemberPosts: 2,221Gear list
Like?
Re: I would suggest...
In reply to James Sherman, Mar 29, 2013

James Sherman wrote:

Richard Franiec wrote:

chillgreg wrote:

DonA2 wrote:

Richard Franiec wrote:

that if you see so much wrong with the DPR review, you should visit "User reviews" and write your own to your liking. Why start another inflammatory thread on Forums?

Regards

Richard

Well, he has repented, sort of.  Your 'write your own review'  is an excellent suggestion.  If nothing else, he is definitely a good writer.

-- hide signature --

Don V. Armitage

Well thank you kind Sir. Maybe I shall do a mini review of the 5R. It certainly deserves one, living in the shadow of it's big brothers.

My suggestion stands.

Using Richard Franiec's logic (who may not be a troll, but didn't do himself any favours with such a pointless comment), if I didn't like my meal at a restaurant, I should just go and cook my own meal. Or if my mechanic didn't service my car to my satisfaction, I should buy some tools and do it myself. Maybe some people prefer to work that way.

Troll? How? Favours? I don't look for one. Pointless? I thought that my comment was right on point.

My favourite restaurant and mechanic enjoy the open and honest discourse I have with them, and appreciate my continued patronage and referrals rather than seeing me take my business elsewhere, potentially spreading negativity about them.

All good

Greg

Patronage for this website is not required. In other words, if you are not happy with the service, go somewhere else and leave satisfied "customers" alone.

Patronage at any business is not required, but if the customers aren't happy....  The fact is that reviews are very slow coming and consequently very much less use to those interested in new cameras/lenses.  It seems that we get a teaser announcement fairly quickly, but for whatever reason the conclusions take way too long to be useful.  Perhaps a bit less quantitative data might speed things up.

I remember highly anticipated and "late" review of Canon Powershot S100. It took several cameras (according to the review) to conclude that the lens has decentering issues varying from unit to unit. Supposedly, not a big deal for "real life" usage, yet, disturbing find for many potential buyers and manufacturer's QC (quickly addressed).

No other review site (with faster review) noticed the issue if I remember well.

If the DPR review is essential for making purchasing decision then maybe it is worth to wait a bit longer?

Regards

Richard

 Richard Franiec's gear list:Richard Franiec's gear list
Sigma DP2 Merrill Canon EOS-1D Mark IV Canon EOS-1D X Canon EOS M Panasonic Lumix DMC-GM1 +5 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
krugman
Contributing MemberPosts: 935Gear list
Like?
Re: DPR's downhill slide continues with the Sony NEX 6 Review.
In reply to chillgreg, Mar 29, 2013

Hi,

May I offer my own  impression of the reviews?

I feel that the positives are

that they are careful and conscientious, and clearly intended to be comprehensive and helpful.

They lack any tone of idiosyncrasy or obvious bias, they appear to have no axe to grind, they try hard to be objective and they try not to let the reviewer's personal predilections and preferences dominate the reviews.

To me their limitations are a s follows:

they are slow to appear,

they are written in an overly careful mode, too highly qualified and hedged; the writing is tedious and boring and  dry as dust, lacking verve and feeling.

they  lack contributions from experienced and credible users that would make them lively and give the reader a better sense of how the camera is in actual use.

The comparative images that accompany them are artificial (who cares about coins or fabrics?)

If I had to summarize, I find them too technocratic.  But for the engineers who populate  camera threads, they must hit the spot.

So I agree with your implication that some changes of tone and scope and communication style would be a definite help to many readers.

All the best,

Krugman

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
tkbslc
Veteran MemberPosts: 8,380Gear list
Like?
Re: Two perfect solutions
In reply to Cy Cheze, Mar 29, 2013

2) Buy one of these: http://www.ostrich-pillow.com/

Thanks for the laugh.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
chillgreg
Senior MemberPosts: 1,103Gear list
Like?
Re: I would suggest...
In reply to robert1955, Mar 30, 2013

robert1955 wrote:

DonA2 wrote:

... If nothing else, he is definitely a good writer.
-- hide signature --

Don V. Armitage

No, he is given to verbosity

Thank you for the insult. And apologies if I used too many big words.

Greg

 chillgreg's gear list:chillgreg's gear list
Ricoh GR Panasonic Lumix DMC-FZ200 Sony RX100 II
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
MiLei
Contributing MemberPosts: 602Gear list
Like?
Re: Two perfect solutions
In reply to Cy Cheze, Mar 30, 2013

By the way, there IS a valid reason to include the spec lists in the reviews, since this should allow one to screen cameras of different  by specific criteria, and it should also force the reviewer to be cognizant of the details enumerated.

Spec lists are allright, I usually just skip them. It is easy to jump to the interesting part of the (P)review. By the way sometimes someone might even need those lists.

But the main problem here is:

There are NO reviews

We want more.

Some other irrelevant opinions

Text should be like a sum of Dpreviews and www.the-digital-picture.com

Results, numbers, graphs from yours Dpreview and from www.photozone.de. I guess you may look at www.dxo.com too, but their website is awfull.

 MiLei's gear list:MiLei's gear list
Canon EOS 5D Canon EF 50mm f/1.4 USM Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS USM Tamron SP AF 200-500mm F/5-6.3 Di LD (IF) Sigma 70mm F2.8 EX DG Macro +2 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Keyboard shortcuts:
FForum MMy threads