Has the X20 met or failed your expectations?

Started Mar 27, 2013 | Discussions
2eyesee
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Re: Has the X20 met or failed your expectations?
In reply to Grobb, Mar 30, 2013

tron555 wrote:

You must have missed the buildings on the far left. Also, the first image of the bridge looks like there were patches or large sheets of ice on the water, hope that's what they were.

I was wondering what people were referring to when they talk about the 'watercolour' effect the X20 produces, but the buildings you refer to look like a perfect example of it.

I was going to comment further but I'll let a 100% crop do the talking (and remember, this ISO100):

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2eyesee
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Re: Has the X20 met or failed your expectations?
In reply to 2eyesee, Mar 30, 2013

2eyesee wrote:

Mickey LeBeau wrote:

No offence taken Tron and I probably missed you comments :-). I'm am very new to digital photography, although I used to have a B&W darkroom with friends. I'm just hope that by sharing a few samples, me and others learn more about the camera...

So in that "light" (pun intended):

OOC Fine

I've been quite interested in the X20 too but Tron is quite right. Look at all the smearing in trees in the middle right of the image above when you view it at 100%. It looks awful - and this is ISO100 we are talking about.

Here is 100% crop of the trees I'm talking about - all the detail in the branches has been reduced to mush:

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Gaze
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Re: Has the X20 met or failed your expectations?
In reply to 2eyesee, Mar 30, 2013

I wonder why the camera chose in Auto mode an aperture of 7.1 on such a gloomy day?  Also, in Auto mode, where does the camera set its NR?

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Grobb
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Re: Has the X20 met or failed your expectations?
In reply to Gaze, Mar 30, 2013

Who really cares, the camera choose the wrong settings and the images look really lousy, and took smeared images. So what is your point? Did the photographer do anything wrong or is the camera flawed? Please stop making excuses for the camera, it just does not do a good job at taking clean/clear, noise free, sharp images, period!

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Gaze
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Re: Has the X20 met or failed your expectations?
In reply to Grobb, Mar 30, 2013

Does Auto mode always get it right for any camera?  And why do professional photographers almost never use Auto mode?

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Grobb
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Re: Has the X20 met or failed your expectations?
In reply to Gaze, Mar 30, 2013

“Does Auto mode always get it right for any camera?” No, but many cameras take MUCH better images than the X20 does in auto mode.

“And why do professional photographers almost never use Auto mode?” Should only Professional photographers use this camera in Manual mode? If yes, than is this camera only made for professional photographers? Besides, many so called “professional photographers” have taken images many images an posted them, and they still look extremely atrocious.

Do you really think the images you have seen so far look that great? Do you own one, or are you seriously thinking about purchasing one after seeing what you have seen so far?

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Gaze
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Re: Has the X20 met or failed your expectations?
In reply to Grobb, Mar 30, 2013

Tron555, you said "Should only Professional photographers use this camera in Manual mode?

Professional photographers are not going to use a P&S camera, they're going to use full frame cameras.

You said, "many so called “professional photographers” have taken images many images an posted them, and they still look extremely atrocious.

Yeah, when it first came out when nobody knew what settings to use for testing it out.  As with any new camera, especially with a new sensor and processor, it's going to take awhile to figure out all its features, settings and options which makes the X20 unique among other compact cameras.

You said, "Do you really think the images you have seen so far look that great? Do you own one, or are you seriously thinking about purchasing one after seeing what you have seen so far?"

Yes, I received my X20 last Monday.  I really haven't taken that many photos but what I have taken look great.  This camera is extremely feature rich and it's going to take time and practice with it.  BTW, do you own an X20?  If not, I think you would be happy owning one … I really do.  There's nothing like 1st hand experience with one!!  Just remember to set the NR to -2 and the sharpness to +1 …. I think those 2 settings are working good for me.  Well, actually, not only for me but look at Absolutic's photo gallery … aren't his photos just gorgeous!  We're all in a learning process with the X20 and I find that as part of the excitement.

As far as the Auto mode for other cameras, both compact and DSLRs, yeah, I think they would vary a lot but not real sure …. I've only dealt with P&S cameras.  How often do you use Auto mode?  I usually use Aperture priority.

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timo
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Re: Has the X20 met or failed your expectations?
In reply to Mickey LeBeau, Mar 30, 2013

Mickey LeBeau wrote:

...I'm am very new to digital photography, although I used to have a B&W darkroom with friends. I'm just hope that by sharing a few samples, me and others learn more about the camera...

So in that "light" (pun intended):

OOC Fine

Mickey, sorry if you have already answered this, but what were the noise reduction and sharpening settings for this shot? It does look pretty mushy in parts, despite some sharpening haloes. Also, if my X10 is anything to go by, f/7.1 is not at all the optimum aperture. F/4 or even wider gives more detail.

I'm decisively on the fence so far as the X20 goes - I'd love the better OVF display and focusing speed, but for me it all hinges on the better full-resolution RAW conversion in LR. So roll on those detailed reviews ...

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Nukunukoo
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Re: Has the X20 met or failed your expectations?
In reply to Sunshine_boy, Mar 30, 2013

Sunshine_boy wrote:

I have been reading rather conflicting comments and opinions from actual users so far and to be honest I have not yet seen sample images to impress me for a camera being launched with such clout.

So my direct question to X20 users is: Did you really get what you were expecting to get? If not, where would you say the camera (or Fuji) failed you?

Also, having tried the X20, do you think it'is worth its price or would you rather have gone for the X10 or some other model or brand?

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Gaze
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Re: Has the X20 met or failed your expectations?
In reply to Nukunukoo, Mar 30, 2013

Hi Nukunukoo,  I'm glad you're happy with using the X20 and look forward to your pics!

Besides having a X20 which I'll be using as my main workhorse, I have a LX5 to compliment it with its DMW-LVF1 external live viewfinder and its DMW-LWA52 18mm wide conversion lens.  It's a nice combo.  I'm giving my LX5 a specific job to do by leaving the conversion lens on almost all the time and that is to use it only for wide angle shots.

I passed up the LX7 for the X20 and I'm very curious, since you own both cameras, how they compare in IQ?  tia

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Tom Schum
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Re: Don't be embarassed....Sunshine
In reply to danny_only, Mar 30, 2013

danny_only wrote:

The X-10 is indeed disappointing before the change of sensor, but I really didn't like the way the customers being treated that way and I think Fujifilm had paid the price. I hope the X-20 is a good camera and you will buy one.

I must have gotten very lucky.  My early production X10 is so good I declined to exchange the sensor.

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Tom Schum
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Re: Has the X20 met or failed your expectations?
In reply to Grobb, Mar 30, 2013

tron555 wrote:

Mickey, you are probably a very good photographer and the comments I made were not aimed at you or your skills. The problem is that the X20 is simply not capable of taking good, sharp, clean images no matter who takes them. When I compare imagines (any of them) taken from the X20, they do not even come close to pictures taken from my almost 3 year old, 10MP Canon G12.


Seattle sky line


Same location

I would not trade my G12 for the X20 because I feel it takes great images, every time, even with default camera settings.

Your words and photos might be more meaningful if you allowed download of originals.  It is a simple item in your DPR settings menu.  Just click the box if you like.

At this point I can only look at the "small, medium, or large" version of your posted photos, and most any camera will look pretty good.  Here on the Fuji forum we have a bunch of pixel peepers, and like them I am only satisfied with full-res.

My own experience with the X20 has been to download samples and print 19"x13".  The prints look significantly better than prints from my X10, rivaling the quality of my X-E1.

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Tom Schum
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Re: Has the X20 met or failed your expectations?
In reply to Mickey LeBeau, Mar 30, 2013

Mickey LeBeau wrote:

So in that "light" (pun intended):

OOC Fine

This does not look quite as good to me as some samples I've seen on the Fuji site and printed.  There seems to be a tradeoff between noise and clarity at ISO 100 in the X20.  Personally I would accept the noise in exchange for the clarity.

I don't have a X20 but I do have a X10 and an X-E1, and for both of them I set noise correction at minimum (-2).  Also, in-camera sharpness processing seems to add "haloes" (white borders) around fine details, so I like to keep my sharpness setting at one step below default (-1).

Later, I post process the OOC JPGs using Photoshop Elements, which gives me lots of control over sharpening and noise.  I think this is how to coax the best out of these cameras.

But I'm lazy so I don't process raws: take my advice with a grain of salt...

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Grobb
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Re: Has the X20 met or failed your expectations?
In reply to Tom Schum, Mar 30, 2013

Tom, I did as you requested, you can now download the originals if you think it will help you. The files are not that large, (I always crop/re-size images, never keep originals) but they should be big enough for you to draw a conclusion. Now that you are able to download the originals, I would be very interested in what you think. What I want to know is, do you see any of the extreme smearing, noise and water colored patches you do in ALL images taken from the X20?

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Tom Schum
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Re: Has the X20 met or failed your expectations?
In reply to Grobb, Mar 30, 2013

tron555 wrote:

Tom, I did as you requested, you can now download the originals if you think it will help you. The files are not that large, (I always crop/re-size images, never keep originals) but they should be big enough for you to draw a conclusion. Now that you are able to download the originals, I would be very interested in what you think. What I want to know is, do you see any of the extreme smearing, noise and water colored patches you do in ALL images taken from the X20?

Thanks for allowing download of originals.  My guess is that if X20 sample shots are downsized and optimized to your original image size they would compare favorably in every case.

In the first one the sharpening haloes would be too plainly visible in a larger print.  The second one seems much better: it lacks these haloes and delivers pixel-level sharpness, plus it was a beautiful day for a photo!

The exposure, lighting, and color balance seems to be really great in both photos.  It's nice to see what a really high quality competitive brand camera can do, and you have brought out the best in it.

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Nukunukoo
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Re: Has the X20 met or failed your expectations?
In reply to Gaze, Mar 30, 2013

Gaze wrote:

Hi Nukunukoo,  I'm glad you're happy with using the X20 and look forward to your pics!

Besides having a X20 which I'll be using as my main workhorse, I have a LX5 to compliment it with its DMW-LVF1 external live viewfinder and its DMW-LWA52 18mm wide conversion lens.  It's a nice combo.  I'm giving my LX5 a specific job to do by leaving the conversion lens on almost all the time and that is to use it only for wide angle shots.

I passed up the LX7 for the X20 and I'm very curious, since you own both cameras, how they compare in IQ?  tia

They both have great lens and incredible definition at ISO 100-250. Pixel peeping shows the X20 being better. Above that (and smaller apertures), you know that the LX7's smaller sensor is at a disadvantage.

Again, playing the dangerous pixel-peeping sport, the X20's sharpness is quite good when compared to the LX7, whether it's because of the lens or the lack of OLPF is anyone's guess. However, the LX7 does show some slight halos at the edges even at defaults (RAW) when compared to the X20.

Low light: LX7 is good, not much better than the S110 but quite better than most point and shoots. The X20 is by far significantly better.

But all things considered, the LX is more portable, lighter and pocket-able. I bring it in my coat pocket when my purse is out of the question. But with the X20, I'm now willing to part with the portability part. Did an impromptu photoshoot with a client and I had the X20, EF-42 TTL, Gary Fong' diffusers, a mini tripod and a mechanical shutter release! A studio in a shoulder bag! And I am quite please with the result!

I have to say, the setup was kinda unusual, will post pix when I can soon!

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Grobb
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Re: Has the X20 met or failed your expectations?
In reply to Nukunukoo, Mar 30, 2013

Photo's speak much louder than empty words. Please, post some of you images (in full resolution) for our entertainment and review. Hopefully you have been able to figure out how to bring out the best in the X20, since others have obviously not been able succeed. Only seeing is believing, anything less is pure conjecture and subjective opinion.

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danny_only
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Re: Don't be embarassed....Sunshine
In reply to Tom Schum, Mar 30, 2013

Tom Schum wrote:

danny_only wrote:

The X-10 is indeed disappointing before the change of sensor, but I really didn't like the way the customers being treated that way and I think Fujifilm had paid the price. I hope the X-20 is a good camera and you will buy one.

I must have gotten very lucky.  My early production X10 is so good I declined to exchange the sensor.

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Tom Schum

It has nothing to do with luck, more with the type of pictures you take. I make a visit to your gallery, 1st generation X-10 sensor will not cause you any problem and it was Fuji who was in luck.

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Alumna Gorp
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Re: Has the X20 met or failed your expectations?
In reply to 2eyesee, Mar 30, 2013

2eyesee wrote:

tron555 wrote:

You must have missed the buildings on the far left. Also, the first image of the bridge looks like there were patches or large sheets of ice on the water, hope that's what they were.

I was wondering what people were referring to when they talk about the 'watercolour' effect the X20 produces, but the buildings you refer to look like a perfect example of it.

I was going to comment further but I'll let a 100% crop do the talking (and remember, this ISO100):

Was this taken during an earth quake, it will explain the leaning buildings and fuzziness.

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DS21
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Re: Has the X20 met or failed your expectations?
In reply to Grobb, Mar 30, 2013

tron555 wrote:

Photo's speak much louder than empty words. Please, post some of you images (in full resolution) for our entertainment and review. Hopefully you have been able to figure out how to bring out the best in the X20, since others have obviously not been able succeed. Only seeing is believing, anything less is pure conjecture and subjective opinion.

The main source of confusion about X20 is the fact that the problems arise mostly in landscape shooting in JPEG, or indoor shooting with low contrast lighting. If one is never taking these type of shots, but instead just close-ups, portraits, studio shots and well lit scenes with no distant fine detail, he/she might have never been aware of a problem. So, posting a good landscape photo with X20 is a real challenge to prove its worthiness as a premium enthusiast compact camera.

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