DP1 Merrill / DP2 Merrill / DP3 Merill - what are the differences

Started Mar 26, 2013 | Questions
hexxthalion
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DP1 Merrill / DP2 Merrill / DP3 Merill - what are the differences
Mar 26, 2013

Hi,

I'm really thinking about getting one of the Merrill cameras but can't find any info anywhere regarding the differences between these 3 models. What are the differences apart from different focal lengths? Firmware versions also differ and apparently you can't install FW for DP2M on DP3M.

Any response would be helpful as I'm bit torn between DP2M and DP3M.

Thank you.

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Laurence Matson
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The answer
In reply to hexxthalion, Mar 26, 2013

The lenses.

hexxthalion wrote:

Hi,

I'm really thinking about getting one of the Merrill cameras but can't find any info anywhere regarding the differences between these 3 models. What are the differences apart from different focal lengths? Firmware versions also differ and apparently you can't install FW for DP2M on DP3M.

Any response would be helpful as I'm bit torn between DP2M and DP3M.

Thank you.

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AdamT
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Re: DP1 Merrill / DP2 Merrill / DP3 Merill - what are the differences
In reply to hexxthalion, Mar 26, 2013

They`re Different Focal lengths - these days the 30mm FOV of the DP1M is IMO the most useful as the camera has plenty of cropping ability due to the resolution , the 45mm of the DP2M a bit tight (35mm would have been a far better bet) , the DP3M is around 85mm so short telephoto and far more specialist but I`d imagine excellent for portrait work

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Halldor Eiriksson
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Re: DP1 Merrill / DP2 Merrill / DP3 Merill - what are the differences
In reply to hexxthalion, Mar 26, 2013

hexxthalion wrote:

Hi,

I'm really thinking about getting one of the Merrill cameras but can't find any info anywhere regarding the differences between these 3 models. What are the differences apart from different focal lengths? Firmware versions also differ and apparently you can't install FW for DP2M on DP3M.

I'm pretty sure installing same firmware on different camera models is never practiced. But I could be wrong of course.  The cameras do have different release dates and therefore do not have same firmware update history.

Any response would be helpful as I'm bit torn between DP2M and DP3M.

Thank you.

So the only significant difference is in the different focal length of the lenses.

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Kendall Helmstetter Gelner
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Re: DP1 Merrill / DP2 Merrill / DP3 Merill - what are the differences
In reply to hexxthalion, Mar 26, 2013

hexxthalion wrote:

Hi,

I'm really thinking about getting one of the Merrill cameras but can't find any info anywhere regarding the differences between these 3 models. What are the differences apart from different focal lengths? Firmware versions also differ and apparently you can't install FW for DP2M on DP3M.

Any response would be helpful as I'm bit torn between DP2M and DP3M.

Thank you.

Mostly it's the focal lengths.

The DP-1M is not quite as sharp at the edges unless you stop down, being a wide angle lens, and also can have more CA.  Compared to wide angle primes on other cameras though it's excellent.

Both the DP-2M and the DP-3M have almost no CA and are sharp all over, even at f/2.8.

Some people claim that the DP-3M has better color.  I'm still not sure about that, but it seems like there may be a difference.

I have noticed the DP-2M is slightly faster to focus than the DP-3M.

Another big difference is that the DP-3M has an almost macro mode (not quite 1:1), whereas the DP-2M does not.

Also, the DP-3M lens extends physically farther than the DP-2M lens, so it's a bit larger as a result.  The body itself is identical.

Manual focus on the DP-3M is easier since the whole barrel is a focus ring.

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hexxthalion
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Re: DP1 Merrill / DP2 Merrill / DP3 Merill - what are the differences
In reply to Kendall Helmstetter Gelner, Mar 26, 2013

Kendall Helmstetter Gelner wrote:

Some people claim that the DP-3M has better color. I'm still not sure about that, but it seems like there may be a difference.--

- that's what I've read somewhere that's why I was trying to find out if the processing is different and therefore different FW versions for cameras.

- it doesn't sound like all 3 models are completely identical (apart from lenses) and that's what I'm trying to find out.

I currently have Fuji X100 and X-Pro1 with 18mm f/2 and 35mm f/1.4 lenses and Leica M6 with Voigtlander 15mm f/4.5 and 50mm f/1.5 Nokton lenses. So that's why I'm deciding between DP2M and DP3M.

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Kendall Helmstetter Gelner
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Re: DP1 Merrill / DP2 Merrill / DP3 Merill - what are the differences
In reply to hexxthalion, Mar 26, 2013

hexxthalion wrote:

Kendall Helmstetter Gelner wrote:

Some people claim that the DP-3M has better color. I'm still not sure about that, but it seems like there may be a difference.--

- that's what I've read somewhere that's why I was trying to find out if the processing is different and therefore different FW versions for cameras.

- it doesn't sound like all 3 models are completely identical (apart from lenses) and that's what I'm trying to find out.

In practice they are essentially identical. Base your choice on focal length desired, and the DP-3M macro mode.

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hexxthalion
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Re: DP1 Merrill / DP2 Merrill / DP3 Merill - what are the differences
In reply to Kendall Helmstetter Gelner, Mar 26, 2013

this is what I was referring to:

"Since the DP2 Merrill, the output out of the Merrill sensor has been enhanced, thus my calling it the "Merrill Unleashed". The DP3 Merrill's colors are more accurate (by far); the color modes do not work like older models leading to even more room to work your raw files and this, in addition to the new SIGMA PHOTO PRO capabilities."

from: http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/cameras/sigma_dp3_review.shtml

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Harold66
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Re: simple really...
In reply to hexxthalion, Mar 26, 2013

Hello Hexxthalion

the link you reffered to makes claims which are vastly unverified. I would take this with a VERY BIG grain of salt

diglloyd who runs some very competent tests and reviews on his site has said that he found no difference in color between both cameras and have the images to prove it

the ONLY important difference between the dpm is  the focal length ( and to a lesser degree the macro capacity of the dp3m) .

so the choice should be pretty self obvious based on what you photograph

Harold

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hexxthalion
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Re: simple really...
In reply to Harold66, Mar 26, 2013

Harold66 wrote:

Hello Hexxthalion

the link you reffered to makes claims which are vastly unverified. I would take this with a VERY BIG grain of salt

diglloyd who runs some very competent tests and reviews on his site has said that he found no difference in color between both cameras and have the images to prove it

the ONLY important difference between the dpm is the focal length ( and to a lesser degree the macro capacity of the dp3m) .

so the choice should be pretty self obvious based on what you photograph

Harold

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thank you Harold, I guess you are referring to this article http://diglloyd.com/blog/2013/20130321_2-SigmaDP3M-color.html or am I wrong?

focal length - well, that's another thing I need to consider if I need another ~50mm lens (have fuji 35mm on X-Pro1 and Voigtlander Nokton 50mm on M6)

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The lenses. Claims of colour differences...
In reply to hexxthalion, Mar 26, 2013

...haven't been substantiated by anyone besides the somehow excited reviewer on Luminous Landscape. When a new camera comes out, people is prone to see what they want to see rather than what is in fact there; it is possible that lens coating is different on the DP3, or that Sigma changed something in the FW of the DP3, but as far as the hardware there isn't any proof that - besides the lenses - anything has been changed between the DP1, DP2 and DP3 Merrill. Besides, the LL reviewer aside many other claims that there isn't any difference between the two camera's insides and processing.

I have reviewed the DP1 / DP2 HERE  and will review the DP3 very soon (it should get in my hands Thursday). There is a poll on my blog about which high-end compact to review next, take a second to vote for your preferred camera HERE .

Best,

Vieri

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NancyP
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Re: DP1 Merrill / DP2 Merrill / DP3 Merill - what are the differences
In reply to hexxthalion, Mar 26, 2013

Nice cameras you have, hexx - why are you buying a Sigma in addition to the existing cameras? In other words, what situations do you most want the Foveon sensor to handle? What focal length do you use for those situations? One thing that is interesting about having the Sigma DP2M  fixed-lens camera is that it (and DP1M, DP3M) uses a leaf shutter and is really quiet. You can add a "shutter" sound if you like, but if you want to be unobtrusive, these are unobtrusive cameras.

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ekaton
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Re: DP1 Merrill / DP2 Merrill / DP3 Merill - what are the differences
In reply to hexxthalion, Mar 26, 2013

hexxthalion wrote:

this is what I was referring to:

"Since the DP2 Merrill, the output out of the Merrill sensor has been enhanced, thus my calling it the "Merrill Unleashed". The DP3 Merrill's colors are more accurate (by far); the color modes do not work like older models leading to even more room to work your raw files and this, in addition to the new SIGMA PHOTO PRO capabilities."

from: http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/cameras/sigma_dp3_review.shtml

I have the DP2M and DP3m. Your claims of different color rendering are absolutely unsubstantiated. There is not the slightest trace of prove whatsover.

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Kendall Helmstetter Gelner
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Re: DP1 Merrill / DP2 Merrill / DP3 Merill - what are the differences
In reply to hexxthalion, Mar 26, 2013

hexxthalion wrote:

this is what I was referring to:

"Since the DP2 Merrill, the output out of the Merrill sensor has been enhanced, thus my calling it the "Merrill Unleashed". The DP3 Merrill's colors are more accurate (by far); the color modes do not work like older models leading to even more room to work your raw files and this, in addition to the new SIGMA PHOTO PRO capabilities."

from: http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/cameras/sigma_dp3_review.shtml

I have both cameras, and think those claims are overstated.

In some similar shots from Iceland between the two cameras I can detect virtually no color difference.

Remember also that he is primarily concerned with skin color in portraits, where tiny differences can mean more.

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HBowman
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Re: The lenses. Claims of colour differences...
In reply to vbd70, Mar 26, 2013

vbd70 wrote:

...haven't been substantiated by anyone besides the somehow excited reviewer on Luminous Landscape. When a new camera comes out, people is prone to see what they want to see rather than what is in fact there; it is possible that lens coating is different on the DP3, or that Sigma changed something in the FW of the DP3, but as far as the hardware there isn't any proof that - besides the lenses - anything has been changed between the DP1, DP2 and DP3 Merrill. Besides, the LL reviewer aside many other claims that there isn't any difference between the two camera's insides and processing.

I have reviewed the DP1 / DP2 HERE and will review the DP3 very soon (it should get in my hands Thursday). There is a poll on my blog about which high-end compact to review next, take a second to vote for your preferred camera HERE .

Best,

Vieri

Are you conscious I'm the author of this report on Luminous Landscape and I'm here on this forum ?? 

First, I did this report for sharing not to grab any money or traffic on my website. Secondly I'm not or was "excited" by the DP3m as I own many brands from the D800 to the Leica S2.

In fact, the DP3m do not render like the DP2m (I was one of the first possessor of this device in my country) and the SD1m.

Beside my report, who is not a review, some others objective users noticed this change on this thread :

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/thread/3400500

It can be the lenses but I doubt just because of skin tones.

The one who say that skin tones out of the DP2m are good is just blind and never worked with any pro agency or professional models such as Elite or Ford or IMG.

But, skin tones out of the DP3m are just, without any pp. So, in my world, colour mode as changed. Vivid mode is usable in many situations also. This is not the case with the DP2m.

But you can continue the polemic to grab more ppl on your whatever blog or review ... I do not care. I'm happy with this tool, who is at a color justice level, better than the DP2m (I would have kept the DP2m other wise ...).

Forums are surreal.

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HBowman
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Re: The lenses. Claims of colour differences...
In reply to HBowman, Mar 26, 2013

But if the "experts" of this forum (This is not my community, I do not identifies myself as a member of this community, just a contributing professional observer) said that there is no change between this two cameras then, trust them

Of course, shooting flowers with both will not bring out that much differences.

The difference is that I make money with this camera. I'm with clients with this camera. We compare, they choose, they decide. Their PP team know better than you and me what is a pantone or a correct color. The DP2m never managed to convince them. That all. maybe firmwares will change that.

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Kendall Helmstetter Gelner
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Re: The lenses. Claims of colour differences...
In reply to HBowman, Mar 26, 2013

In that thread there is a difference (which I agreed with), but in a few of my own recent photos I am not seeing a difference.  I think it's still too early to say, and in any case to characterize whatever difference there is as large is overstating things.

Remember that the main point of this particular thread is about choosing between a DP-2M and DP-3M.  I would still say that preference in focal length and ability is much more important than whatever difference in color we may have seen to date.

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Harold66
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Re: The lenses. Claims of colour differences...
In reply to HBowman, Mar 26, 2013

The one who say that skin tones out of the DP2m are good is just blind and never worked with any pro agency or professional models such as Elite or Ford or IMG.

B

I am not sure how this is relevant . surely one who shoots with agency models would not use the dp2m  often , if anything at all , for this kind of assignment

especially with all the equipment you said you have

you seem to have  AT LEAST 2 cameras qualified for portrait and fashion work and claiming that the dp2m would be  your the right tool , regardless of the color rendition , is a little bit , how shall we say .. suspicious ??

Harold

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HBowman
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Re: The lenses. Claims of colour differences...
In reply to Kendall Helmstetter Gelner, Mar 26, 2013

Kendall Helmstetter Gelner wrote:

In that thread there is a difference (which I agreed with), but in a few of my own recent photos I am not seeing a difference. I think it's still too early to say, and in any case to characterize whatever difference there is as large is overstating things.

Remember that the main point of this particular thread is about choosing between a DP-2M and DP-3M. I would still say that preference in focal length and ability is much more important than whatever difference in color we may have seen to date.

Yes of course. For the choice, he need to see what focal would suit him best. But for colors, I overstate nothing. I have no interests to overstate anything, no interests at all. I just seen it at the first picture I took with the device. Like arcaswissi99 experienced.

I'm not a forum guy anyway, those line are so buried in the web that saying something or saying nothing is the same.

The reviewers, or newcomers in SIGMA world, know better than old time users. Who is suspicious

Forums are surreal !

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vbd70
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Re: The lenses. Claims of colour differences...
In reply to HBowman, Mar 26, 2013

HBowman wrote:

vbd70 wrote:

...haven't been substantiated by anyone besides the somehow excited reviewer on Luminous Landscape. When a new camera comes out, people is prone to see what they want to see rather than what is in fact there; it is possible that lens coating is different on the DP3, or that Sigma changed something in the FW of the DP3, but as far as the hardware there isn't any proof that - besides the lenses - anything has been changed between the DP1, DP2 and DP3 Merrill. Besides, the LL reviewer aside many other claims that there isn't any difference between the two camera's insides and processing.

I have reviewed the DP1 / DP2 HERE and will review the DP3 very soon (it should get in my hands Thursday). There is a poll on my blog about which high-end compact to review next, take a second to vote for your preferred camera HERE .

Best,

Vieri

Are you conscious I'm the author of this report on Luminous Landscape and I'm here on this forum ??

Hello Hulyss, yes I am, so?

First, I did this report for sharing not to grab any money or traffic on my website. Secondly I'm not or was "excited" by the DP3m as I own many brands from the D800 to the Leica S2.

It seemed to me from the tone of your report that you were excited by the new DP3, and in fact very enthusiastic about it. This is a fact that I think every one can confirm just by reading your report which is HERE for those interested. I don't see how owning many brands of cameras has anything to do with being excited about the DP3, and I stand by my comment - you sounded very excited and enthusiast about the DP3 in your report. However, if you were not excited by the DP3 but horrified by it or neutral or unexcited or whatever, then I apologise for the misunderstanding. However, it seemed to me and it seems to me reading your report again that you were excited about it. By the way, this is not something you need to be ashamed about, so I really don't understand why you got all worked up by my remark of you being excited about the camera...

In fact, the DP3m do not render like the DP2m (I was one of the first possessor of this device in my country) and the SD1m.

Beside my report, who is not a review, some others objective users noticed this change on this thread :

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/thread/3400500

It can be the lenses but I doubt just because of skin tones.

The one who say that skin tones out of the DP2m are good is just blind and never worked with any pro agency or professional models such as Elite or Ford or IMG.

But, skin tones out of the DP3m are just, without any pp. So, in my world, colour mode as changed. Vivid mode is usable in many situations also. This is not the case with the DP2m.

But you can continue the polemic to grab more ppl on your whatever blog or review ... I do not care. I'm happy with this tool, who is at a color justice level, better than the DP2m (I would have kept the DP2m other wise ...).

You should learn to read. I am not doing any polemics to grab anything, you are actually the one that started a polemic with your reply. I just said that to my knowledge, there is no proof that the internals of the DP3 Merrill are different from the DP1 & DP2. I also said that there might be differences in lens coating or FW that accounts for eventual differences in image quality. I finally said that while you claim that colours are different, many others claim that there isn't any difference in colour rendering between the DP1 / DP2 / DP3 - one is Diglloyd, which people might know around here, and whose website I recommend (even if it's a paying website). I finally said that I will have a DP3 by thursday if all goes well, and that I will review it as soon as possible.

I stand by all the above.

I frankly don't understand why you got your pants in a twist just because I quoted people that do not agree with your findings. I have nothing to gain either if the DP3's colours are the same or if they are different - actually, I do hope that Sigma improved colour rendition with the DP3, and I do hope that the hardware internals are the same - this would mean that they did it by FW, and therefore that we could get the same improvements via FW on the DP1 and DP2 as well.

Forums are surreal.

Forums are just empty boxes. People in them might be surreal at times...

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Vieri

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