>>>> Street Photography eXchange #37a <<< Locked

Started Mar 26, 2013 | Discussions
This thread is locked.
hexar
Contributing MemberPosts: 858
Re: you might as well ask...
In reply to xtoph, Mar 27, 2013

Did I ask you something ???

hexar
Contributing MemberPosts: 858
Re: As I recall, in my mispent youth,
In reply to fad, Mar 27, 2013

Thanks for your nice explanation Frank.

have a nice day,

HEXAR

hexar
Contributing MemberPosts: 858
Re: As I recall, in my mispent youth,
In reply to fad, Mar 27, 2013

This one I like !  For me a digferent type of pic vs the other 2 of the couples.  Tried the same with my wife today.

Failed !

hexar
Contributing MemberPosts: 858
Re: the old "train"
In reply to Still Young, Mar 27, 2013

Love the top pic !  Very nice composition and content .

xtoph
Veteran MemberPosts: 8,601Gear list
Dpr mangled my post above--
In reply to hexar, Mar 27, 2013

Anyone interested in reading the whole post i wrote above will need to make sure they have 'view signature' on. Apparently the forum software interpreted the attribution of the quote to sontag as a signature line.

I've seen this happen--sometimes repeatedly--in other people's posts, but this may be the first time the glitch has affected me. Annoying.

hexar wrote:

Did I ask you something ???

Yes, you did.

apaflo
Veteran MemberPosts: 3,854
Re: Dpr mangled my post above--
In reply to xtoph, Mar 27, 2013

xtoph wrote:

Anyone interested in reading the whole post i wrote above will need to make sure they have 'view signature' on. Apparently the forum software interpreted the attribution of the quote to sontag as a signature line.

I've seen this happen--sometimes repeatedly--in other people's posts, but this may be the first time the glitch has affected me. Annoying.

The DPReview editor has so many odd "features" that it's hard to keep up with them... and signature delimiters is one feature that most of us would consider "broken".

Technically a signature is suppposed to be delimited by a line that contains, in order, only two dashes and one space followed by a newline.   <newline>--<space><newline>

But this editor decides that any line beginning with two dashes is the end of regular text and the begining of the signature.  Even more ridiculous, it considers such lines within a signature to be the start of a second signature!

Avoid starting lines with dashes.

fad
fad
Forum ProPosts: 12,401Gear list
Re: the old "train"
In reply to Still Young, Mar 27, 2013

The second is a good solution to the compositional problem of the first one.  Well done.

-- hide signature --

Frank
shot in downtown Manhattan.
http://sidewalkshadows.com/blog/ (street photos)

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fad
fad
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Re: But to those who yield, he is much more gentle
In reply to hexar, Mar 27, 2013

hexar wrote:

Frank, what is your drive to get so deep into the intimacy of  couples like this ?   Would a pic like this not be only  of value for those exposed ?   What is your point capturing  and saving   isolated  exposures of these couples ?   I would feel myself a bit too much voyeur  rather than photograper in  situations like this .   Nothing  offending but just curious ?

cheers

HEXAR

We all see photos, from time to time, of things that make us uncomfortable.   What this would be varies from person to person.   "Sensitive" issues like sex, religion and politics are often involved.   I, like all the early reviewers, am personally turned off by Robert Frank entitling his contentious, outsider looking in masterpiece "The Americans."   I find it an intellectual and artistic slur (in the way I don't find Wm Klein's self-professed anti-Americanism at all offensive, because it has love.)

But while I may express my feelings, and have, and wish he had not chosen such a bigoted point of view, and I think it shows him to have a stunted imagination, I have never questioned the value of his exercising his artistic freedom.   That is an artist's choice and prerogative.   No one has a right to question this.

Likewise, if you and your wife are made uncomfortable by couples kissing, or my shots of same, that's perfectly valid and no one can question that.   Likewise if you think that they lack artistic interest.   That's valuable to hear.

But we should never question a fellow artist's choice of what to photograph.   That is sacred ground.

-- hide signature --

Frank
shot in downtown Manhattan.
http://sidewalkshadows.com/blog/ (street photos)

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hexar
Contributing MemberPosts: 858
Re: Dpr mangled my post above--
In reply to xtoph, Mar 27, 2013

xtoph wrote:

Anyone interested in reading the whole post i wrote above will need to make sure they have 'view signature' on. Apparently the forum software interpreted the attribution of the quote to sontag as a signature line.

I've seen this happen--sometimes repeatedly--in other people's posts, but this may be the first time the glitch has affected me. Annoying.

hexar wrote:

Did I ask you something ???

Yes, you did.

So what did I ask you then ?

hexar
Contributing MemberPosts: 858
Re: But to those who yield, he is much more gentle
In reply to fad, Mar 27, 2013

Frank,  I would never question your choises of what you shoot.  My question is why you shoot it and you explained that well .   Further more I passed on to you  you the feeel I would have making such shots as an info , as an other good prove of the fact that anyone has his or her own sentiment/ feeling about this.  All fully positively meant questions from my side and again no way an insult or judgement of the work.

People sometimes feel so offended when you question them about their work because they consider a  question  often as a negative comment .  Should be avoided in this forum I believe.

Cheers

HEXAR

hexar
Contributing MemberPosts: 858
Re: But to those who yield, he is much more gentle
In reply to hexar, Mar 27, 2013

By the way I am absolutely blown away by the fact that when I ask Frank about his motivations in respect of shooting love couples as presented in this thread someone else  namely XTOPH answers that question for FAD with the following text passage:

" are you seriously suggesting that you cannot see how either of the pics fad posted would have any value to people besides the ones pictured? if so, wouldn't that apply to all street photos? heck, pretty much all photo period?

if you cannot see the point of 'capturing and saving' single frames of street life in all its myriad manifestations, then possibly street photography is not for you."

What is it XTOPH that you answer a question that is not for you ?

Are you the secretary of Frank  ?

Are you asked by Frank to think and write for him ?

Do you think Frank is not capable of answering questions to him by himself ?

Could you please not do this again as it is quit disturbing to me especially because you assume a very negativ  meaning behind my questions to Frank wich is not the case .

Thanks for your understanding and when I have a question to you I will adress it to you so no worry I mean you when I adress someone else.

cheers

HEXAR

fad
fad
Forum ProPosts: 12,401Gear list
Leaving with honor (timē)
In reply to fad, Mar 27, 2013

When we read non-modern texts it's easy to overlook how few things people used to have.   A great king, for instance, might in the middle ages have only one carpet he moved from hall to hall.   In the world of Homer, the only way to get stuff was to make it, get it as a gift, or plunder it by force.   The Trojan war was fought over Helen, a stolen object.   The Iliad and the Odyssey both are about warriors becoming mass murders in order to avenge the loss of their stuff.  The word (timē) that is usually as 'honor,' can often just as easily be translated as 'stuff' --the kinds of things, possessions, love objects, that today can easily be acquired by credit card, over the internet even.

The alert young lady, with the full bag of tricks, is very much like Odysseus.

-- hide signature --

Frank
shot in downtown Manhattan.
http://sidewalkshadows.com/blog/ (street photos)

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apaflo
Veteran MemberPosts: 3,854
Re: But to those who yield, he is much more gentle
In reply to hexar, Mar 27, 2013

hexar wrote:

What is it XTOPH that you answer a question that is not for you ?

Are you the secretary of Frank  ?

Are you asked by Frank to think and write for him ?

Do you think Frank is not capable of answering questions to him by himself ?

Could you please not do this again as it is quit disturbing to me especially because you assume a very negativ  meaning behind my questions to Frank wich is not the case .

Thanks for your understanding and when I have a question to you I will adress it to you so no worry I mean you when I adress someone else.

cheers

HEXAR

This is a public forum.  If you wish to address anyone privately there is a facility for Private Messages, and if the specific member has provided an email address in their profile you can also use email.

What you cannot do is post a private message to a forum on DPReview.  Any publically posted article can be, and commonly will be, replied to by virtually any other member here. That is absolutely to be expected, and should not be a point of contention.

The above is just another way of saying that xtoph can dang well respond to a question addressed to Frank if he feels like it!

apaflo
Veteran MemberPosts: 3,854
Re: Leaving with honor (timē)
In reply to fad, Mar 27, 2013

fad wrote:

In the world of Homer, the only way to get stuff was to make it, get it as a gift, or plunder it by force.

Oh come on...  While Homer probably preceeded the concept of coinage by at least 1 or 2 hundred years, trade via barter was clearly a very common practice during his time.

People such a farmers, artists, warriors, etc did not make or plunder all that was not gifted.  They typically worked productively at one thing, and bartered that product for other goods.  Which is  to say that in at least that one respect they were much the same as we are today.

The Trojan war was fought over Helen, a stolen object.   The Iliad and the Odyssey both are about warriors becoming mass murders in order to avenge the loss of their stuff.  The word (timē) that is usually as 'honor,' can often just as easily be translated as 'stuff' --the kinds of things, possessions, love objects, that today can easily be acquired by credit card, over the internet even.

That all might be true, but it is not something related to  your previous claim.  It supports the relatively well understood problems with male hormone production!

The alert young lady, with the full bag of tricks, is very much like Odysseus.

Oh, sure.  Shopping at a store that bags their products as seen makes her either intelligent and cunning, or as you cite, a mass murder???  More likely, NOT!

Actually it appears that all we know about her is that she has at least one friend, and is to some degree a good subject for a photograph!

hexar
Contributing MemberPosts: 858
Re: But to those who yield, he is much more gentle
In reply to apaflo, Mar 27, 2013

apaflo wrote:

hexar wrote:

What is it XTOPH that you answer a question that is not for you ?

Are you the secretary of Frank  ?

Are you asked by Frank to think and write for him ?

Do you think Frank is not capable of answering questions to him by himself ?

Could you please not do this again as it is quit disturbing to me especially because you assume a very negativ  meaning behind my questions to Frank wich is not the case .

Thanks for your understanding and when I have a question to you I will adress it to you so no worry I mean you when I adress someone else.

cheers

HEXAR

This is a public forum.  If you wish to address anyone privately there is a facility for Private Messages, and if the specific member has provided an email address in their profile you can also use email.

What you cannot do is post a private message to a forum on DPReview.  Any publically posted article can be, and commonly will be, replied to by virtually any other member here. That is absolutely to be expected, and should not be a point of contention.

The above is just another way of saying that xtoph can dang well respond to a question addressed to Frank if he feels like it!

And my mail is just another way of saying that I think it is dumm and stupid to respond to a question that is not directed to you.  This forum is public and that implicates that  anyone can see and read all posts.  That does not mean that it is common sense that a question  to a specific member in those public postings should be answered by a person the question is not directed to .   If I ask you in this forum if you are doing well,  it would be quiit silly if anyone else but you would give me an answer to that isn`t it ?   So also in public fora questions to individual participants can be made but one has to be aware that those questions are public.  That means anyone can see and follow that question and answer procedure.

That makes this forum public and not the fact that no iquestions can be asked to an individual .

Anyhow if I can not adress any question in this forum to an individual in relation to a posting in this forum like I did than I am out of this forum per direct as this is  the most silly rule I can think of.   Next to that I just wanted to emphasize that in case I ask a question to Frank that it is not appropriate for XTOPH to give me an answer on that question because his response is not asked for and not of interest to me.  And again his response was completely besides the intention I had with my question.

As I do not believe the rules set in this respect can satisfy me I am out of this forum after having tried to contribute in all positiv sense  for the second run after a silly confrontaton with ONEANT in the past that made me back up .

Cheers and thanks for the joy I had anyway.

HEXAR

apaflo
Veteran MemberPosts: 3,854
Re: But to those who yield, he is much more gentle
In reply to hexar, Mar 27, 2013

hexar wrote:

That makes this forum public and not the fact that no iquestions can be asked to an individual .

You can address questions to individuals.  You cannot restrict others from also replying to your question.

Whether you think that is appropriate or not is an opinion that you are fully entitled to, but not one that can in any way be enforced.  (Specifically you cannot do anything that tends to make another member feel forced not to post such a response.)

As I do not believe the rules set in this respect can satisfy me I am out of this forum after having tried to contribute in all positiv sense  for the second run after a silly confrontaton with ONEANT in the past that made me back up .

You have the options here of, 1) flagging an article with a complaint, or 2) sending a Private Message to a moderator.  If indeed something inappropriate occurs in the future please do use the facilities available.  (And I would ask that people here never respond to articles they believe are inappropriate.  Let the moderators take care of it.)

Cheers and thanks for the joy I had anyway.

I don't think that I am at all alone in saying that your very interesting and often unique opinions have been of benefit here to everyone.  I cannot imagine that anyone here would not want you to continue to participate.

fad
fad
Forum ProPosts: 12,401Gear list
Re: But to those who yield, he is much more gentle
In reply to hexar, Mar 27, 2013

hexar wrote:

By the way I am absolutely blown away by the fact that when I ask Frank about his motivations in respect of shooting love couples as presented in this thread someone else  namely XTOPH answers that question for FAD with the following text passage:

cheers

HEXAR

Hexy,

You seem like a real nice guy, so I'll explain things one more time.

You know, this is the internet.   One has to be a little careful not to come across the wrong way.   There are all kinds of bitter, thwarted people who post on the net, just waiting to reinforce their nihilism by spurting out a little gratuitous negativity.  They are best ignored.  But Chris and I are not that kind of guy!

Here is what you wrote:

A.  Frank, what is your drive to get so deep into the intimacy of  couples like this ?   Would a pic like this not be only  of value for those exposed ?   What is your point capturing  and saving   isolated  exposures of these couples ?   I would feel myself a bit too much voyeur  rather than photograper in  situations like this .

You hit all the buzz words that nasty, soulless, joyless people who envy the spontaneity of street photography, use to try to put it down.  (I know that's not you, but that is what you said.)  What you wrote was a far cry from:

B.  Frank, we've all seen a lot of photos of couples clinging to each other.   What did you find in these shots that was interesting?

You were in fact attacking the basic artistic license that lies behind all street photography.   You accused me, not only of violating their intimacy, but of driving very deep to do so (unfortunate metaphor - trash diving?  sexual penetration?)   You accuse me of exposing them (hey, they were exposing their own feelings on a public street.)  You did not ask why I thought the photos good enough to share, but why I dared to capture and save such photos, which are very standard fare for SP and have been so forever.   You accused me of being more a voyeur than a photographer.

Their sexual content is very, very mild, PG at most, but I can understand how different people react differently to sexual stimuli and situations.  If you found disturbing what I find witty and charming and romantic and delightful, who am I to disagree with you?   It's a very personal thing.  But I'm quite happy that I can see more than the hot sexual subtext in these situations and try to follow the masters in making interesting art.

But your words were strong words, fighting words, and quite uncalled for.   You were, in effect, delegitimizing every street photographer who has ever lived.  You were waving the ultimate red flag --you SPers are all intrusive voyeurs who have no legitimacy.    Chris is a very nice guy, but your post deserved his strong response, which was measured and learned and quite instructive.  A valuable contribution, I thought, and to be applauded.

For whatever reason, you are pretending you merely said B, when in fact you said A.   For what you actually said, I think you were answered in a measured, respectful, instructive and appropriate fashion.

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Frank
shot in downtown Manhattan.
http://sidewalkshadows.com/blog/ (street photos)

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apaflo
Veteran MemberPosts: 3,854
Re: But to those who yield, he is much more gentle
In reply to fad, Mar 27, 2013

fad wrote:

But your words were strong words, fighting words, and quite uncalled for.   You were, in effect, delegitimizing every street photographer who has ever lived.

Not true.  What he did was nail you for what you said and what you posted, as he understood it.

Still Young
Senior MemberPosts: 1,362
Dedalos & Ikaros training
In reply to fad, Mar 27, 2013

Continuing the Greek Mythology started by frank…

fad
fad
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Homage à Gustav Klimt
In reply to fad, Mar 28, 2013

Klimt painted portraits as if they were gold mosaics:

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Frank
shot in downtown Manhattan.
http://sidewalkshadows.com/blog/ (street photos)

 fad's gear list:fad's gear list
Canon EOS-1Ds Mark III Nikon D3S Nikon D800 Nikon D4s Nikon D810 +9 more
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