On board flash importance

Started Mar 26, 2013 | Discussions
NancyP
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Re: pretty insects and spiders
In reply to rodbam, Mar 26, 2013

Very well done. The good old "paper/foam dinner plate" diffuser?

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dexter9
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Re: No
In reply to Ubilam, Mar 26, 2013

Ubilam wrote:

Matt wrote:

If I want to take photos (snaps) that are fine with an on board flash then I wouldnt be carrying a pro camera around.

Then what is wrong with you? If you are serious about taking pics, why would you not take your better gear out and about? I do. I don't use a P&S or smart phone. My 7D image quality tells me the hassle is worth it... even with snaps. You are lazy.

Ubi.

Isn't that like the pot calling the kettle black?

If you are serious about taking pics, why would you not take your better gear out and about (a dedicated flash)?

A dedicated flash will always produce better results than an on camera flash.

Perhaps you are the lazy one Ubi

And to answer your original question:

"Is an on-board flash on a camera important to you?"

No, not in the least bit.

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MisterPootieCat
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60D on-board flash
In reply to NancyP, Mar 26, 2013

NancyP wrote:

I should add, I have a 60D, I use the on-board flash as main flash only on rare occasions, and I don't expect good looking pictures, just documentation. I don't like the straight-on flash flatness. If the 60D on-board flash was a control unit, I would use it as such.

The 60D supports wireless flash, same as the 7D.

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borno
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Re: On board flash importance
In reply to Ubilam, Mar 26, 2013

I would rather not have a flash circuit in my camera as my first digital body got fried when it was only a couple weeks old by the flash capacitor. Most built in  flash shots are not appealing anyway to me. I have a metz if I need it. : )

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BAK
BAK
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Yes it is
In reply to Ubilam, Mar 26, 2013

All the built-in flash on my camera will do is light up shadows.

Chances are when I move to another camera, I will get one with a built-in flash that also triggers remote flash units wirelessly.

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Jeff Peterman
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Re: On board flash importance
In reply to Ubilam, Mar 26, 2013

One reason I've been reluctant to buy a 5D is the lack of an on-board flash. The flash isn't very powerful, and isn't in a great location, but it means I always have a flash if I need one. If I know ahead of time that I'll need a flash I'll pack a 580EX or other lighting gear. But there have been times when I've only been planning to shoot with available light and someone says "can you take a shot of us?" under conditions I know will give a poor image without flash - I can just press the flash button, shift my mode to C1 (which I have pre-configured as my starting point for on-board flash) and quickly take the shot.

The on-board flash is also useful for triggering external flashes.

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Jeff Peterman
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Re: No
In reply to Ubilam, Mar 26, 2013

Hmm, the response to your question was no: for this person, on-board flash isn't important. Why does this upset you?

As I said, for me on-board flash is important, even when shooting for others at events. But I can fully appreciate why others (who take different types of shots) would not consider a built in flash important.

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meland
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Re: On board flash importance
In reply to Jeff Peterman, Mar 26, 2013

Jeff Peterman wrote:

One reason I've been reluctant to buy a 5D is the lack of an on-board flash. The flash isn't very powerful, and isn't in a great location, but it means I always have a flash if I need one. If I know ahead of time that I'll need a flash I'll pack a 580EX or other lighting gear. But there have been times when I've only been planning to shoot with available light and someone says "can you take a shot of us?" under conditions I know will give a poor image without flash - I can just press the flash button, shift my mode to C1 (which I have pre-configured as my starting point for on-board flash) and quickly take the shot.

The on-board flash is also useful for triggering external flashes.

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Yes I think many people would now find it useful.  To be fair to Canon though, their own extensive research with many photographers in many countries at the time indicated that there was little or no demand for it.  Given that feedback I'm really not surprised they left it off but I suspect if they repeated those surveys today they might get a different result.

It is also true that the flash on top of the pentaprism is a weak point in terms of potential damage / water resistance.  On models that have it that have been dropped or suffer impact damage the flash often has to be completely replaced.  The water resistance issue can be largely be overcome of course, if enough is spent on engineering but at the time they really didn't think it was worth spending the time on.

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BDW_12
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Re: On board flash importance
In reply to Ubilam, Mar 26, 2013

I have never used it. I always use a 580ex.

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Christoph Stephan
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Yes, very important
In reply to Ubilam, Mar 26, 2013

Ubilam wrote:

I like the available on-board flash on my 7D and it comes in handy. The so-called PRO canon cameras have no built-in flash so you have to carry around a dedicated flash and attach it when needed, or use high noisier ISOs to capture the moment while paying more to do so.

The question I ask is... "Is an on-board flash on a camera important to you?"

(This is my 3,000 post on DPR)

May be no one dares to admit it, but I do: I find the onboard falsh very useful, not only for pictures in the dark, but also for fill flash - a creative tool which cannot be simply replaced by longer exposure and high ISO

Another use is in macro pictures. I stop down the macro lens to f < 22, and use manual mode and the fill flash to get pictures with great depth of field and any disturbing backgorund veiled in black by deliberate underexposure.

You will need to use negative flash exposure compensation for this, otherwise the flower in the foreground is to bright.

I have a seperate flash but it is seldom with me: I always prioritise addtional lenses over it on a trip.

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meland
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Re: Yes, very important
In reply to Christoph Stephan, Mar 26, 2013

Christoph Stephan wrote:

Ubilam wrote:

I like the available on-board flash on my 7D and it comes in handy. The so-called PRO canon cameras have no built-in flash so you have to carry around a dedicated flash and attach it when needed, or use high noisier ISOs to capture the moment while paying more to do so.

The question I ask is... "Is an on-board flash on a camera important to you?"

(This is my 3,000 post on DPR)

May be no one dares to admit it, but I do: I find the onboard falsh very useful, not only for pictures in the dark, but also for fill flash - a creative tool which cannot be simply replaced by longer exposure and high ISO

Another use is in macro pictures. I stop down the macro lens to f < 22, and use manual mode and the fill flash to get pictures with great depth of field and any disturbing backgorund veiled in black by deliberate underexposure.

You will need to use negative flash exposure compensation for this, otherwise the flower in the foreground is to bright.

I have a seperate flash but it is seldom with me: I always prioritise addtional lenses over it on a trip.

Yes, it's useful as long as you are not to close to the subject.  A 50mm macro for example at 1:2 will be so close that any subject will only be partially illuminated at the top by an onboard flash and the light fall off can be quite dramatic.

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jrkliny
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Re: Yes, very important
In reply to Christoph Stephan, Mar 26, 2013

I use mine infrequently but really appreciate having it when needed:

fill flash

flash trigger

emergency flash

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Christoph Stephan
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Re: Yes, very important
In reply to meland, Mar 26, 2013

meland wrote:

Yes, it's useful as long as you are not to close to the subject. A 50mm macro for example at 1:2 will be so close that any subject will only be partially illuminated at the top by an onboard flash and the light fall off can be quite dramatic.

Yes, 1:2 is approximately borderline for what you can use the onboard flash, I experienced this with my Sigma 50mm f2.8, too.

I wonder whether the Canon EF-S 60mm f2.8 does not shadow the onboard flash at closer distances, as it does not extend during focussing.

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Old Sarge
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Re: On board flash importance
In reply to Jeff Peterman, Mar 26, 2013

Jeff, this is exactly the way I feel about it (I think I'll do what you mention and set C2 for my flash starting point).  This subject, like "lens protection" filters and Av vs. Tv settings, seems to generate a lot of heat with little information.  I started photography in an era when flashbulbs were the general rule (I lusted for a Honeywell strobe and a Braun was just a pipe dream) and back when I was shooting weddings (on film) I used Vivitar 283s and had a Stroboframe to get the flash off the camera but I still appreciate the on-board flash both for fill outside and as a convenience inside. I probably use it more than I do my 580EXII for that reason.  I also appreciate the ability to use it as a trigger sometimes if I feel like a more elaborate set-up.

To each, their own.

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meland
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Re: Yes, very important
In reply to Christoph Stephan, Mar 26, 2013

Christoph Stephan wrote:

meland wrote:

Yes, it's useful as long as you are not to close to the subject. A 50mm macro for example at 1:2 will be so close that any subject will only be partially illuminated at the top by an onboard flash and the light fall off can be quite dramatic.

Yes, 1:2 is approximately borderline for what you can use the onboard flash, I experienced this with my Sigma 50mm f2.8, too.

I wonder whether the Canon EF-S 60mm f2.8 does not shadow the onboard flash at closer distances, as it does not extend during focussing.

It's not just the lens shielding the subject but also that the flash itself is slightly pointing in the wrong direction.  It's like the parallax error in a rangefinder camera - the flash is directed so that its spread is even on a subject about 2-3 metres away.  But as you move progressively closer the error increases.

There have been a few on-board flashes where the beam of light could be angled downwards slightly which helps, provided you don't forget to reset it for normal work.

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Zee Char
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Re: On board flash importance
In reply to Limburger, Mar 26, 2013

Limburger wrote:

It's my IR transmitter

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Cheers Mike

It works very well. I know there is the whole line of site thing but indoors is no issue unless you are around 5 corners. I was in a lighting workshop on Sunday put on by a local camera club. We split in 2 groups and went to separate rooms. The door had about a 2' by 2' window. The cactus trigger in our room failed so we went optical. Every time they fired the flash in the other room it set ours off. We had to tape cardboard to the window   Outdoors it gets dicey.

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Zee Char
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Re: Yes, very important
In reply to jrkliny, Mar 26, 2013

jrkliny wrote:

I use mine infrequently but really appreciate having it when needed:

fill flash

flash trigger

emergency flash

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Jim, AKA camperjim, formerly from liny, Long Island New York

Yeah even though I said it is too small a light source for me it can come in handy. It just one time I tried to rotate it for bounce flash and tore it off my camera They sell diffusion screens and bounce back reflectors but you can make your own for pennies. Just not my thing. I think it has popped up 3 times in 3 years on my 7D and that was by mistake.

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Klaus dk
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Re: On board flash importance
In reply to Zee Char, Mar 26, 2013

Cardboard - why didn't you just change channels?

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Limburger
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Re: On board flash importance
In reply to Klaus dk, Mar 26, 2013

Klaus dk wrote:

Cardboard - why didn't you just change channels?

Cardboard is more DIY

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Cheers Mike

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Limburger
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Re: On board flash importance
In reply to Zee Char, Mar 26, 2013

Zee Char wrote:

Limburger wrote:

It's my IR transmitter

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Cheers Mike

It works very well. I know there is the whole line of site thing but indoors is no issue unless you are around 5 corners. I was in a lighting workshop on Sunday put on by a local camera club. We split in 2 groups and went to separate rooms. The door had about a 2' by 2' window. The cactus trigger in our room failed so we went optical. Every time they fired the flash in the other room it set ours off. We had to tape cardboard to the window Outdoors it gets dicey.

Splendid story

Reminds me of a story some guys were taking remotes to clubs changing track on the cd players

In the club they probably figured carboard is a very handy thing to work with.

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Cheers Mike

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