Was Ready to Buy a NEX 6 but DP Review Leaves Me Cold.

Started Mar 26, 2013 | Discussions
Spitze
New MemberPosts: 15Gear list
Like?
Was Ready to Buy a NEX 6 but DP Review Leaves Me Cold.
Mar 26, 2013

Really need a new travel camera as my Canon G12 is long in the tooth. I was thinking the Sony NEX 6 might be the best compact APS-C camera to buy for travel purposes. At home, I use a Canon 5D II but don't want to lug this to Europe. The JPEG images at the DP Review comparing the NEX 6 to the Olympus seem to strongly favor the Olympus PM-D E-M5 even though it has a smaller sensor. Any advice strongly appreciated. Any other choices to consider?. Cost not a major factor.

 Spitze's gear list:Spitze's gear list
Canon PowerShot G12 Canon EOS 5D Canon EF 28-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM
Canon EOS 5D Canon PowerShot G12
If you believe there are incorrect tags, please send us this post using our feedback form.
S3ZAi
Contributing MemberPosts: 732Gear list
Like?
Re: Was Ready to Buy a NEX 6 but DP Review Leaves Me Cold.
In reply to Spitze, Mar 26, 2013

Sony isn't famous for it's jpeg engine. If you don't mind shooting raw, take a look at the nex7 review, just to get an idea, I'm sure the nex6 isn't very different. Nex7 raw is one of the best out there and I believe nex6 should be close or even better in some ways as it is newer.

If you have to shoot jpeg and costs aren't a problem, I would go for the fuji xe-1.

 S3ZAi's gear list:S3ZAi's gear list
Sony Alpha 7R Sony Alpha NEX-7 Sony E 35mm F1.8 OSS Sony FE 55mm F1.8
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Thamnophis
Forum MemberPosts: 74
Like?
Re: Was Ready to Buy a NEX 6 but DP Review Leaves Me Cold.
In reply to Spitze, Mar 26, 2013

Unless you do large prints, you'll never notice it.

You could also check out some legacy glass for better IQ.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
mgerpe
Regular MemberPosts: 241
Like?
Re: Was Ready to Buy a NEX 6 but DP Review Leaves Me Cold.
In reply to Thamnophis, Mar 26, 2013

customize the two extra buttons and you almost never have to use the menu system.

if you shoot raw your golden.

lets not kid ourselves nobody is buying the 6 for wifi and apps.

-- hide signature --

"Sit loosely in the saddle of life"
http://www.michaelgerpe.com

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
TomCak
Junior MemberPosts: 47Gear list
Like?
Re: Was Ready to Buy a NEX 6 but DP Review Leaves Me Cold.
In reply to Thamnophis, Mar 26, 2013

Thamnophis wrote:

Unless you do large prints, you'll never notice it.

You could also check out some legacy glass for better IQ.

Precisely the way I'm leaning. I have a NEX-7 and will likely get a NEX-6 for my son.

Unless printing large the IQ difference is likely negligible, and even then, maybe so depending on the size.

The OM leaves me cold largely because it's larger and lacks an on-camera flash. While even the NEX flashes aren't the cats meow, having one on camera makes it a more versatile - take every where option, IMO.

Tom

Tom

 TomCak's gear list:TomCak's gear list
Sony RX100 Nikon D800E Sony Alpha NEX-7 Nikon AF-S Nikkor 14-24mm f/2.8G ED Nikon AF-S Nikkor 70-200mm f/2.8G ED VR II +22 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Dan_168
Veteran MemberPosts: 3,819
Like?
Re: Was Ready to Buy a NEX 6 but DP Review Leaves Me Cold.
In reply to S3ZAi, Mar 26, 2013

S3ZAi wrote:

Sony isn't famous for it's jpeg engine. If you don't mind shooting raw, take a look at the nex7 review, just to get an idea, I'm sure the nex6 isn't very different. Nex7 raw is one of the best out there and I believe nex6 should be close or even better in some ways as it is newer.

If you have to shoot jpeg and costs aren't a problem, I would go for the fuji xe-1.

Totally agree, if I am shooting JPEG, Fuji X pro 1 or XE-1 will by on top of my list, I am a raw Canon and Nikon DSLR shooter and tried shooting jpeg with my NEX 7 few times to see how it came out as I am mainly using this camera as point and shoot style shooting but can't stand it and stop shooting JPEG ever since.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
walnorth
Forum MemberPosts: 97
Like?
Re: Was Ready to Buy a NEX 6 but DP Review Leaves Me Cold.
In reply to mgerpe, Mar 26, 2013

I understand your pain. I've always loved having a small "carry camera." A Linhof Master Teknika and Contax 645 were my mainstays. But I loved carrying a Leica CL then a Contax G, G with it's superb Zeiss optics. They were small enough I could always have a quality camera with me.

Digital changed my life. The cameras were "plasticy," not beautiful tech works of art. I despaired, but had to change. I had spent my life learning to master making fine black and white prints. Luckily, I have been involved with computers since the 1960s. (Yes, I'm old) So I went digital, producing my artist's book State of Grace by digitizing images and printing the images myself on an Epson printer. It sold out in days.

In darkroom days, an artist would have to have to print the whole edition at once to assure each print would be the same. (Ansel showed me in his darkroom how he'd change his interpretation with new printing. We're not Ansel. Collectors expect a print sold to be exactly what they expected.) So, as an artist, if I had 30 active prints for sale and an edition of 100, I'd have 3,000 prints in stock. An "unpopular" series would be fireplace tinder. Expensive. I couldn't "firesale" editions. Those collectors who believed in me and bought prints on release needed to be supported. Converting to digital, I could print  a number of prints and if I had paper and ink in stock, I could produce exact prints. I needed fewer prints in stock and could have many more images. I could experiment. If my vision of that image had changed, I could offer the collector a choice and notate my numbering.

I bought a Nex7 as a carry camera. The images were beautiful. My canon DSLRs and Leica film cameras stayed at home. My Canon G*10,12 cameras were given to my daughter. My "carry camera" had become my main camera.

My Contax G sat in a closet, I loved it too much to sell it. Now I can use its superb optics on my Nex7.

The Nex series are small and "carryable." I don't see the word "fun" on this this forum. They're fun to use. Don't underestimate fun.

Learn your craft, but have fun. The Nex6 (or Nex7) will let you create beautiful images.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
blue_skies
Senior MemberPosts: 6,901Gear list
Like?
Re: Was Ready to Buy a NEX 6 but DP Review Leaves Me Cold.
In reply to Spitze, Mar 26, 2013

Spitze wrote:

Really need a new travel camera as my Canon G12 is long in the tooth. I was thinking the Sony NEX 6 might be the best compact APS-C camera to buy for travel purposes. At home, I use a Canon 5D II but don't want to lug this to Europe. The JPEG images at the DP Review comparing the NEX 6 to the Olympus seem to strongly favor the Olympus PM-D E-M5 even though it has a smaller sensor. Any advice strongly appreciated. Any other choices to consider?. Cost not a major factor.

Yes, there seems to be a bias towards the OM-D on dpreview, not sure what or why this is.

OM-D scores high in three areas: ISO is one stop above the 'true' ISO, NR is applied to RAW, and the smaller sensor increases DOF. And add to this the faster AF algorithms.

The result is that for the casual shooter, OM-D is a more satisfactory experience. Where it fails is if you are a more advanced user and are comparing the results from your post flow, and notice that the OM-D does not have as much headroom left, and that the increased DOF is not always the best image.

Not to harp on the OM-D, the sensor is smaller, a stop slower and has more DOF, resulting in 'flatter' images. The APS-C sensor is very different, and should be compared as a class by itself.

Sony hasn't helped with the Nex-7, because of its high ISO limitations. Essentially, the Nex-7 has similar pixel sites as the OM-D, and hence similar ISO response. You can down-sample the Nex-7 to overcome this, but it means that images must be compared post, not as OOC JPG at 100%.

In this context, the Nex-6 is a high-note, and an improvement over the Nex-5N, if you care about EVF and OSPDAF. I really don't see why the Nex-6 gets a silver rating whereas the Nex-5N gets a gold rating. Same as to the scoring, the OM-D gets 80% and the Nex-7 81%. So, at 78% the Nex-6 is maxed out?

The Nex-6, imo, is very equivalent to the 5N in terms of sensor IQ. The results are nearly identical. Add the EVF and the OSPDAF, which does get high marks from dpreview, the Nex-6 definitely improves on the 5N in terms of versatily. It also has the pop-up flash (that the OM-D lacks), and the WiFi apps. (And you don't need to purchase to MFNR app, you still have HHT and AMB built-in).

Comparing the Nex-6 to the Fuji X-E1 and Samsung NX-200 would be more relevant, and the Nex-6 holds its own. Where issues emerge, it hints at JPG defaults being less aggressive in the Nex, and the standard (kit zoom) lens being of acceptable, but not stunning IQ. Fuji is definitely aiming a more discerning user, but it comes at a price.

Once you mate the Nex-6 with a proper lens, including the E primes, the results are stunning and amazing. This doesn't show up in the review, as it is comparing a camera-package, not a best-of mix Yes, there are differences between the OM-D, the XE-1 and the Nex-6, but I would argue that at this level they are very minor, not major. You can't go wrong with any choice, really, as long as you understand the trade-offs.

Imo, the Nex-7 should have been the Nex-6, and the Nex-7N the true Nex-7, but it is what it is. The Nex-7 has higher resolution, which amazes, and dissapoints at the same time. It amazes because you have more detail than your are used too, kind of FF DLSR like, but it also shows IQ limitations of lenses at the pixel peeping level. Put a high IQ lens in front of the Nex-7, and it trumps every other mirror less camera, at least at low ISO.

Unless you need the 24Mp resolution, and the Nex-7 should be your choice, out of the 16Mp choices I woul consider only the XE-1 and Nex-6, simply because of the creativity (DOF) of the APS-C. Ymmv, if you like sharper pictures, do consider the OM-D, given the extra DOF at same exposure settings. In low-light, the Nex-6 is also a lot better.  Given cost, lens availability, including legacy RF lenses, I would pick the Nex-6 first, even today, and the XE-1 second. The XE-1 gets great reviews, but the lack of PDAF and the complex sensor structure would still steer me away from it. And add in the higher prices for Fuji.

I do like the PDAF, especially when handing the camera off to others - the keeper rate has gone way up for those not familiar with the focus-reframe-shoot method.

I find the Nex-6 more than satisfactory. I don't see a reason to upgrade from the 5N (add the EVF instead) or downgrade from the Nex-7 (add the PDAF), for existing Nex users. For new Nex users, it is simply a matter of budget versus features - pay more and get more.

I still have the 5N, 6 and 7, and the 6 is my all around goto camera. I like the compactness of the 5N (without EVF), and the higher detail results of the Nex-7, but I need this only a minority of times. I also use the LA-EA2 less, now that the PDAF has somewhat address the subject-in-front-of-background issue, albeit not the AF speed itself.

Anyways, I am hitting the posting limit soon, I figure. I would recommend the Nex-6, do your own review and hands-on tests if you want. I would also argue that all mention cameras will fit the bill, I would not declare one that much better over another. Not sure that I take away your fears, but I am comfortable shooting neutral JPG with the Nex-6 and process this in Lightroom, instead of using RAW. (I shoot RAW but seldom find the need to process the RAW itself). The results are very, very good. If I take the Nex-7 images downsampled to 16Mp, the results are nearly identical. There is one difference: the Nex-7 has more DR and picks a better color tone at times, usually under lower lighting.

I was satisfied with the Nex-5N, and am definitely satisfied with the Nex-6.

Do however consider the 7N if you are still deciding - it should be announced shortly. But unless you need 24Mp, I would not wait for it.

-- hide signature --

Cheers,
Henry

 blue_skies's gear list:blue_skies's gear list
Canon PowerShot S95 Sony Alpha NEX-6 Sony Alpha NEX-7 Sony Alpha 7 Sony a6000 +30 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
ajbud
New MemberPosts: 8
Like?
Re: Was Ready to Buy a NEX 6 but DP Review Leaves Me Cold.
In reply to blue_skies, Mar 26, 2013

I replaced my Canon 60d & 24-105L with a Nex 6 kit plus the sel50 f1.8 & both the sigma f2.8 lenses (19 & 30).
I used to shoot a lot of raw but found I was spending too much time on the computer.
All I can say is that I have had no regrets and absolutely love the jpg images that this camera produces.
When it is paired up with the sigma 30 the images are amazing.
A perfect size to travel with too.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Franka T.L.
Veteran MemberPosts: 7,455Gear list
Like?
image quality of JPEG on reviews are always misleading
In reply to Spitze, Mar 26, 2013

First off, let me put forth my POV, as of today, whatever brand, whatever model a mirrorless, can return decent and quality JPEG.

Its not RW, RW had only one capture, and one result from that one exposure, but how many parameters and variations one can set into the camera for a JPEG, the WB, ISO, sharpness, color space, contrast, hue shift , tone curve, highlight recovery etc ... if we tally all this it quickly became realized that for any one camera, for any one exposure, there can be almost million of ways to do a JPEG, of course quite a portion would not turn out right other than for creative purpose, and other would be of questionable value for technical reason. But just that single JPEG in the review , what setting it is, the default. There is no saying you cannot set the camera to a value otherwise that you find preferable.

Its better to investigate what all those JPEG can deliver instead of trying to rely on that single piece of data out of a zillion possibility. ANd last might I add, Today's camera and software are way more advanced than previous one and simply put I would say they all are well prepared for the majority of need. And for those who can't find a cmera that deliver, They are more likely to find that other model equally disappoint ( but not always neccessary for the same reason ) and that its better to go the shoot RAW and do your own development route of action

-- hide signature --

- Franka -

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
TimelordXYZ
Regular MemberPosts: 395Gear list
Like?
Re: Was Ready to Buy a NEX 6 but DP Review Leaves Me Cold.
In reply to blue_skies, Mar 26, 2013

If one compares the NEX-6 with the NEX-5N in the Low light/High ISO performance category (Conclusions page), the NEX-5N is supposedly significantly better.

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/sony-alpha-nex-6/22

If that is correct, then its very disappointing as I was looking to upgrade my NEX-5N at some point because I can't use my EVF and the flash at the same time on the NEX-5N.

Has the addition of the on-sensor PDAF, degraded the IQ of the NEX-6 that much?

 TimelordXYZ's gear list:TimelordXYZ's gear list
Sony Alpha NEX-5N A3000 Sony a6000 Sony E 35mm F1.8 OSS Sony E 50mm F1.8 OSS +2 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Clayton1985
Veteran MemberPosts: 3,832
Like?
Re: Was Ready to Buy a NEX 6 but DP Review Leaves Me Cold.
In reply to TimelordXYZ, Mar 26, 2013

I'm not sure where you are seeing that -- I may be looking in the wrong place??   Personally, I find the NEX 6 to be the same as the 5N.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Astrophotographer 10
Senior MemberPosts: 4,618Gear list
Like?
Re: Was Ready to Buy a NEX 6 but DP Review Leaves Me Cold.
In reply to Spitze, Mar 26, 2013

If I were going on a trip to Europe (lucky bugger) I would take Fuji XE1 with 18-55 and 14mm for widefield or the new Fuji X100s which is getting rave reviews as the best camera Fuji has ever made and 90% of Leica for 1/6th the price. XE1 and Xpro 1 are great cameras but AF whilst improved a lot (it really is acceptable to me as-is but would be considered a bit slow on some lenses and in some scenes, mainly dim light) is still perhaps a weak spot. Nex 6 has PDAF as well as CDAF focusing, peak focusing and auto magnify for manual focusing. EVF is better on Nex 6 than Fuji XE1. Not massively but noticeably. Nex 6 EVF seems quite normal, Fuji's is a tad grainy and laggy. The XE1 overall is a bit slower than Nex 6 so Nex must have a faster processor. But Fuji jpeg colours are to die for. Better than anyone elses.

Also Fuji lenses are among the very best you can buy from any brand. They are superb +.

I also have a Nex 6 and so far I have been very impressed with its performance. It has everything.

As far as EM5 goes, it is a strong competitor and seems to do everything right. For me I did not like the form of the camera as much as the Fuji - it seemed too small and cramped. Nex is probably smaller but has a form which is pleasing. It can be used one handed and the tiltable screen allows a clear view of the scene from above or below you. Video is stunning, better than Fuji.

So if it were me if I could live with a fixed focal length (the very useable 23mm) I would go Fuji X100s - its small, its superb, it has the best manual focus options, it has autofocus basically as good as anyone's now. If I wanted interchangeable lenses I would go either Fuji XE1 or Nex 6 or wait for the new Nex 7 to see if its now all sorted. If I were going to do a lot of video I would go with Nex 6.

Greg.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
lyricalmotion
Regular MemberPosts: 147Gear list
Like?
Re: Was Ready to Buy a NEX 6 but DP Review Leaves Me Cold.
In reply to Spitze, Mar 26, 2013

only reason that you shouldn't get nex 6 is if you just feel uncomfortable with the interface and ergonomics of it. Also, if you just hate e mount lenses. For me, i found the interface pretty easy.. took me like 30 mins of fooling around and skimming through the manual. The ergonomics was smooth and the camera felt good in my hand.

I don't get why people compare JPEG or Raw. no one is going to pixel pop look into your photos. If your composition is good enough and your subject is interesting enough.. then the picture should be fabulous.

-- hide signature --

lifesolyrical.tumblr.com

 lyricalmotion's gear list:lyricalmotion's gear list
Sony Alpha NEX-6 Sigma 19mm F2.8 EX DN Sony E 16-50mm F3.5-5.6 PZ OSS Sony E 20mm F2.8 Sony E 35mm F1.8 OSS +3 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Keit ll
Senior MemberPosts: 2,789Gear list
Like?
Re: Was Ready to Buy a NEX 6 but DP Review Leaves Me Cold.
In reply to lyricalmotion, Mar 26, 2013

You have to be wary of DPReview's camera reports as they don't use the standard kit lenses when shooting photos. They try to standardise individual makers reviews by using one lens , judged to be good , from that makers range.

While this approach has some validity it means that some reviews are biased because the chosen lens for any particular maker may be exceptional & little effort is made to keep a level playing field. I am not sure what Olympus & Sony lenses are used for the compact camera reviews but I feel certain that any perceived IQ differences are because the lenses used are not matched for performance.

You also have to be careful what part of the standard studio shot is chosen when making comparisons as the chosen optimum focus point may differ between two different camera shots.

-- hide signature --

Keith C

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
TimelordXYZ
Regular MemberPosts: 395Gear list
Like?
Re: Was Ready to Buy a NEX 6 but DP Review Leaves Me Cold.
In reply to Clayton1985, Mar 26, 2013

Clayton1985 wrote:

I'm not sure where you are seeing that -- I may be looking in the wrong place?? Personally, I find the NEX 6 to be the same as the 5N.

The Conclusions page has a slider switch called 'Compare to' in the Final word section. Click it on and then select the NEX-5N in the 'Pick a camera to compare' combo box and then click 'Add'

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/sony-alpha-nex-6/22

You will see that when you hover over the NEX-5N entry that the High ISO performance stat goes partly yellow for the amount by which the NEX-5N is better.

 TimelordXYZ's gear list:TimelordXYZ's gear list
Sony Alpha NEX-5N A3000 Sony a6000 Sony E 35mm F1.8 OSS Sony E 50mm F1.8 OSS +2 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Jefenator
Senior MemberPosts: 1,387Gear list
Like?
Re: Was Ready to Buy a NEX 6 but DP Review Leaves Me Cold.
In reply to Spitze, Mar 26, 2013

The DPR comparison tool while cool and sometimes informative is not perfect. I find quite a bit of variation between test shots as to exactly which area of the scene is in the best focus. If you move the zoom view throughout the scene, you should notice this. (In DPR's defense, these types of critical comparisons can be awfully tricky - and of course most of the time different sensors are also being compared with different lenses.)

I have noticed that sometimes the NEX-7 samples look even better than most of the full-frame samples, but in one spot where the NEX-7 is out of focus, a point-and-shoot does better. That's why I think of the DPR widget as being more of a "importance of critical focus demonstration tool".

I wouldn't have any hesitation about getting a NEX-6 for my high-IQ travel camera. Except I already have a 7.

 Jefenator's gear list:Jefenator's gear list
Sony Alpha 7 Sony Alpha NEX-7 Canon EOS M Sigma 30mm F2.8 EX DN Canon EF-M 22mm f/2 STM +1 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Baba Ganoush
Regular MemberPosts: 277Gear list
Like?
Re: Was Ready to Buy a NEX 6 but DP Review Leaves Me Cold.
In reply to blue_skies, Mar 26, 2013

blue_skies wrote:

Once you mate the Nex-6 with a proper lens, including the E primes, the results are stunning and amazing. This doesn't show up in the review, as it is comparing a camera-package, not a best-of mix Yes, there are differences between the OM-D, the XE-1 and the Nex-6, but I would argue that at this level they are very minor, not major. You can't go wrong with any choice, really, as long as you understand the trade-offs.

Cheers,
Henry

I agree.  With the right lens on the NEX-6 (not the kit lens), the images are indeed stunning:

http://www.thephoblographer.com/2012/12/31/review-sony-nex-6/

 Baba Ganoush's gear list:Baba Ganoush's gear list
Panasonic Lumix DMC-TS4 Panasonic Lumix DMC-FZ200 Panasonic Lumix DMC-ZS15 Sony RX100 Sony Cyber-shot DSC-RX10 +21 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
dynacam
Contributing MemberPosts: 632
Like?
Re: Was Ready to Buy a NEX 6 but DP Review Leaves Me Cold.
In reply to Baba Ganoush, Mar 26, 2013

Also have a look at the review from Sans Mirror which had just also been poste d

dynacam
(Graeme Knox)
www.k-island.com
blog : http://greenmonkeyadventures.blogspot.com

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Tapper123
Senior MemberPosts: 1,157Gear list
Like?
I have an OMD and NEX
In reply to Spitze, Mar 26, 2013

Spitze wrote:

Really need a new travel camera as my Canon G12 is long in the tooth. I was thinking the Sony NEX 6 might be the best compact APS-C camera to buy for travel purposes. At home, I use a Canon 5D II but don't want to lug this to Europe. The JPEG images at the DP Review comparing the NEX 6 to the Olympus seem to strongly favor the Olympus PM-D E-M5 even though it has a smaller sensor. Any advice strongly appreciated. Any other choices to consider?. Cost not a major factor.

I recently bought an OMD EM5, and I own a NEX F3 since last summer.

Both are great cameras, but MFT lens selection is far superior, and that was my main motivation.

Having said that, I still think NEX has slightly better IQ, but OMD is not bad.

For travel, I think OMD is perfect. First of all, it's weather sealed, as is the pretty good 12-50 kit lens, and some other MFT lenses like the 60 Macro (which I also got). IMO weather sealing is a big plus for travel and trips. Secondly, the lenses are so small (most of them). If you like nature macros, I think OMD + 60 Macro is the best thing going right now.

My heart is still with NEX system (some great memories were captured with it for me), but the OMD has a lot to offer.

 Tapper123's gear list:Tapper123's gear list
RX100 III Sony Alpha NEX-F3 +2 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Keyboard shortcuts:
FForum MMy threads