Windows 8

Started Mar 23, 2013 | Discussions
JulesJ
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Re: Windows 8
In reply to RedFox88, Mar 25, 2013

RedFox88 wrote:

I guess it's such a pain to be promted to enter the title/label of the disc.

That was not the point of this image, it was to show the spurious choices shown below.

JulesJ wrote:

I find it a pain because after selection the file(s) i want to burn I then get this dumb window

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JulesJ
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Re: You can make W8 look more or less like W7
In reply to Simon Garrett, Mar 25, 2013

Simon Garrett wrote:

BirgerH wrote:

Simon Garrett wrote:

Several people have mentioned that with Start8, Classic Shell etc you can make W8 look like W7. Quite right.

Balance the marginally better performance of W8 against the few things missing from W8, then on balance W8 (with the start menu restored) is then only a bit worse than W7.

Enough said?

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Simon

Well - everybody's free to have their opinions.

What you can't take away, is that my Win8 has been running for almost a year with no blue screens, no sudden restarts and no programs frozen the computer to death.

Not even WindowsXP was that reliable.

And extra: Some of my external devices (a printer and a scanner) who were left without drivers by Vista, are suddenly working.

I will never change back to XP.

I don't disagree with a word you've said. W8 is a lot better than XP (IMHO) but no better overall than W7. It's slightly faster

Faster when doing what for instance?

and some say slightly more stable than W7, but they've taken away features, some of which you can't restore, and added little of value.

It's simply a wasted opportunity. Microsoft has been foolishly distracted by Metro, and the vain (IMHO) goal of a single platform for everything from smart phone to desktop.

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JulesJ
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Re: Why burn disks?
In reply to Franglais91, Mar 25, 2013

Franglais91 wrote:

I upgraded my main laptop from Windows 7 to Windows 8. I also bought a Windows RT Surface tablet. I think that the Metro interface makes sense only if you have a system with a touch screen - and even then you sometimes need a mouse for precise pointing jobs. I'm quite impressed with the Surface and it's fold-away keyboard for lightweight tasks.

I haven't "burnt a disk" in months or even years. What are you burning to disk?

How nice for you. In addition to our normal portrait family sessions every few weeks we shoot business portraits for business and private people to use on their websites and for personal use. They get to take the disc of the image away after the shoot and they pay there and then. If we do say eight sessions in a in the day and charge an average of £200 per client it is a good return for about £4 worth of discs. Just because you don't need them doesn't mean no one else does. We also use printable CDs and print each with our log and info as well as putting them into jewel cases similarly with personalised covers inside. They look very cool and professional...and make us money which is what we are in business for (and have been for over 25 years! )

We also burn every session to disc after each session as well as copying to two drives. Having backups on DVDs has saved our bacon on a couple of occasions. Hard drives can lose a lot of info very quickly.

Jules

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Leon Obers
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Re: Windows 8
In reply to JulesJ, Mar 25, 2013

JulesJ wrote:

I'm sure it does make sense, but If i copy a file to a USB stick, I plug in the stick and drag the file to it, job done. Why do they confuse burning a CD with that?

That's why they speak of "LIKE", not that it is the same.
Every OS has there merits or strange common sense.
I never did understand why unmounting a disk on a Mac, you have to through it in the basket.
I don't want to delete the data on it.
If you use that typical mode of "USB", a first "fresh" CD shall be "formatted". Afterwards it is just in the same way as using a USB-stick. Drag the files, and it shall be copied to the CD. Exactly in the same way as a USB-stick. Only the time to copy can vary depending to CD write speed.

Files that are there but greyed out, or they have one of your original file names but start with an underscore eg

_pic.psd

Till yet not found these files in Win8.
Only if I drag files (not the USB-method, but the mastering method), in first degree it is not burned yet, it shows up as "shortcut" files. After CD is burned, they show up as real files.

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CAcreeks
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What is a master disc?
In reply to JulesJ, Mar 25, 2013

JulesJ wrote:
I'm sure it does make sense, but If i copy a file to a USB stick, I plug in the stick and drag the file to it, job done. Why do they confuse burning a CD with that?

Totally useless option. Who would want to write a CD that can be read on only one operating system? This is why ISO standardized 9660 with Rockridge and Joliet extensions.

Leon Obers wrote:
Mastering is another method of CD writing. After burning / ending, files at the CD can not be changed anymore. The CD / DVD is "closed". Just what the text say at that choice.

This is not a master disc, this is "disc at once" (DAO) as opposed to "session at once" (SOA). Another phrase for it is Finalize Disc.

So what is master disc?

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Archer66
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Re: What is a master disc?
In reply to CAcreeks, Mar 25, 2013

CAcreeks wrote:

So what is master disc?

Look at the screen shot from JulesJ.

"Choose the Mastered format when you need a disc that will play on any computer  or in some different consumer electronic devices, such as CD, DVD, and Blu‑ray Disc players, that can play digital music files, pictures, or video files. "

http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows7/burn-a-cd-or-dvd-in-windows-explorer

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Simon Garrett
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Re: You can make W8 look more or less like W7
In reply to JulesJ, Mar 25, 2013

JulesJ wrote:

Simon Garrett wrote:

I don't disagree with a word you've said. W8 is a lot better than XP (IMHO) but no better overall than W7. It's slightly faster

Faster when doing what for instance?

W8 usually boots a bit faster than W7 (it's smarter about the way it loads stuff into memory), and some applications run typically up to 5% faster.  That latter came from a survey I think on http://www.tomshardware.com/ but I can't find it at the moment.

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Sean Nelson
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Re: Windows 8
In reply to Leon Obers, Mar 25, 2013

Leon Obers wrote:

If you use that typical mode of "USB", a first "fresh" CD shall be "formatted". Afterwards it is just in the same way as using a USB-stick. Drag the files, and it shall be copied to the CD. Exactly in the same way as a USB-stick. Only the time to copy can vary depending to CD write speed.

But you know that CDs don't really operate the same way as USB flash drives, right? Once you drag a file to a CD-R, that space is gone and can never be recovered. Even if you "erase" the file from a CD-R all you've really done is to create a new directory which supercedes the old one, and the new one doesn't have an entry for that file even though the data is still on the disk.

The problem with software that makes a CD "look like" a USB flash drive is that people end up expecting it to be able to do the same things that a USB flash drive can - when in fact the base technology is completely different and doesn't support the same operations.

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Leon Obers
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Re: Windows 8
In reply to Sean Nelson, Mar 26, 2013

Sean Nelson wrote:

But you know that CDs don't really operate the same way as USB flash drives, right?

Yes I know, as anybody know. So you know it does not do the same.

As I wrote before. Every OS has there merits or strange common sense.
Unmounting a disk on a Mac, you have to through it in the basket.
That is also one of those strange things.

The problem with software for unmounting a disk "look like" if you trough it away is that people end up expecting it to be able to do so. Or the opposite:  Deleting files thinking it shall be unmounted - when in fact the base technology is completely different and doesn't support the same operations.

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Archer66
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Re: Windows 8
In reply to Sean Nelson, Mar 26, 2013

Sean Nelson wrote:

The problem with software that makes a CD "look like" a USB flash drive is that people end up expecting it to be able to do the same things that a USB flash drive can - when in fact the base technology is completely different and doesn't support the same operations.

Not quite true.

If Win 7 user uses "Live File System" then CD will work like a USB stick.

Look at screen shot from JulesJ "Like a USB flash drive" option.

"Be able to add and erase one file or many files over and over (like you can with a  USB flash drive) and use the disc in a Windows 7 computer."

http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows7/which-cd-or-dvd-format-should-i-use

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Sean Nelson
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Re: Windows 8
In reply to Archer66, Mar 26, 2013

Archer66 wrote:

Sean Nelson wrote:

The problem with software that makes a CD "look like" a USB flash drive is that people end up expecting it to be able to do the same things that a USB flash drive can - when in fact the base technology is completely different and doesn't support the same operations.

Not quite true.

If Win 7 user uses "Live File System" then CD will work like a USB stick.

Look at screen shot from JulesJ "Like a USB flash drive" option.

"Be able to add and erase one file or many files over and over (like you can with a USB flash drive) and use the disc in a Windows 7 computer."

http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows7/which-cd-or-dvd-format-should-i-use

As I described in my post, you can "logically" delete a file, but on a CD-R you can't physically delete the file and therefore the space can't be recovered.   Unlike a USB flash drive, repeated deletes to a CD-R will make your drive smaller and smaller.

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Paul Barrett
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Re: Windows 8
In reply to JulesJ, Mar 26, 2013

JulesJ wrote:

Apart from buying it with a new machine, is anyone going to bother to update their W7 machine with the new OS? I am not a fan of W7 and wish I stil had XP. Burning discs on 7 is a pain compared to on a Mac. Anyone tried 8 yet?

Jules

No plans here.  In fact, based on what I have read i am likley to buy win7 on the next machine I order, or go to Mac (I can't believe I am saying that as an Apple hater [rip off someone's name would you?]) but MS seem to be losing he plot somewhat.  Or go Linux

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Archer66
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Re: Windows 8
In reply to Sean Nelson, Mar 26, 2013

Sean Nelson wrote:

Archer66 wrote:

Sean Nelson wrote:

The problem with software that makes a CD "look like" a USB flash drive is that people end up expecting it to be able to do the same things that a USB flash drive can - when in fact the base technology is completely different and doesn't support the same operations.

Not quite true.

If Win 7 user uses "Live File System" then CD will work like a USB stick.

Look at screen shot from JulesJ "Like a USB flash drive" option.

"Be able to add and erase one file or many files over and over (like you can with a USB flash drive) and use the disc in a Windows 7 computer."

http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows7/which-cd-or-dvd-format-should-i-use

As I described in my post, you can "logically" delete a file, but on a CD-R you can't physically delete the file and therefore the space can't be recovered. Unlike a USB flash drive, repeated deletes to a CD-R will make your drive smaller and smaller.

True with CD-R disc but not with CD-RW-, DVD-RW- or DVD-RAM.

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Sean Nelson
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Re: Windows 8
In reply to Archer66, Mar 26, 2013

Archer66 wrote:

Sean Nelson wrote:

Archer66 wrote:

Sean Nelson wrote:

The problem with software that makes a CD "look like" a USB flash drive is that people end up expecting it to be able to do the same things that a USB flash drive can - when in fact the base technology is completely different and doesn't support the same operations.

Not quite true.

If Win 7 user uses "Live File System" then CD will work like a USB stick.

Look at screen shot from JulesJ "Like a USB flash drive" option.

"Be able to add and erase one file or many files over and over (like you can with a USB flash drive) and use the disc in a Windows 7 computer."

http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows7/which-cd-or-dvd-format-should-i-use

As I described in my post, you can "logically" delete a file, but on a CD-R you can't physically delete the file and therefore the space can't be recovered. Unlike a USB flash drive, repeated deletes to a CD-R will make your drive smaller and smaller.

True with CD-R disc but not with CD-RW-, DVD-RW- or DVD-RAM.

DVD-RAM is a block-replaceable device just like a USB flash drive, so it really can work just like one.   But the -RW variants can't do block replacement, they can only erase the entire disk.   That means if you keep adding and deleting you're going to come to a point where the entire disk has to be read, erased, and any undeleted content re-written again.   That will take quite a while to do - so although they may support the same logical operations, the user experience can be quite different.

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Archer66
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Re: Windows 8
In reply to Sean Nelson, Mar 26, 2013

Sean Nelson wrote:

Archer66 wrote:

Sean Nelson wrote:

Archer66 wrote:

Sean Nelson wrote:

The problem with software that makes a CD "look like" a USB flash drive is that people end up expecting it to be able to do the same things that a USB flash drive can - when in fact the base technology is completely different and doesn't support the same operations.

Not quite true.

If Win 7 user uses "Live File System" then CD will work like a USB stick.

Look at screen shot from JulesJ "Like a USB flash drive" option.

"Be able to add and erase one file or many files over and over (like you can with a USB flash drive) and use the disc in a Windows 7 computer."

http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows7/which-cd-or-dvd-format-should-i-use

As I described in my post, you can "logically" delete a file, but on a CD-R you can't physically delete the file and therefore the space can't be recovered. Unlike a USB flash drive, repeated deletes to a CD-R will make your drive smaller and smaller.

True with CD-R disc but not with CD-RW-, DVD-RW- or DVD-RAM.

But the -RW variants can't do block replacement, they can only erase the entire disk. That means if you keep adding and deleting you're going to come to a point where the entire disk has to be read, erased, and any undeleted content re-written again.

Not according to this:

http://www.howtogeek.com/126547/htg-explains-live-file-system-vs.-mastered-disc-formats-in-windows/

"If you’re using a rewritable disc with the Live File System, space used by deleted files will be erased immediately and the space will be reclaimed. This is a big advantage for rewritable discs – you can write to them and delete files as if you were writing to a USB flash drive, without having to perform a clunky full-disc erase operation every time you want to erase some files."

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acdtech
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Re: Start8 and ModernMix with Windows 8
In reply to Birk Binnard, Mar 26, 2013

Start8 and Modern Mix (beta) works perfect with Windows 8. I had bought a new Windows 7 computer last summer and I qualified for the $14.99 Windows 8 upgrade. I also got the free upgrade to Windows Media Center. Since I still had an old desktop computer I installed all of this on my old computer. Works great but I only use it as a backup. My Windows 7 computer  is still my primary computer. If the Windows 8 is not to your liking but can't get a good deal on Windows 7 computer Start8 and ModernMix (beta) from www.stardock.com will replicate most of the Windows 7 experience. ModernMix allows you to run all the apps in resizable windows just like normal Windows Applications. Each program (app) cost $4.99 each and both have 30 day trials.

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NorCor
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Re: Windows 8
In reply to Paul Barrett, Mar 26, 2013

Window8 BLUE, article http://winsupersite.com/windows-8/what-blue-leak-tells-us-about-microsoft-s-strategy METRO to stay with improvements

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Jim Cockfield
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Yep -- Windows is a dead/dying OS
In reply to NorCor, Mar 26, 2013

NorCor wrote:

Window8 BLUE, article http://winsupersite.com/windows-8/what-blue-leak-tells-us-about-microsoft-s-strategy METRO to stay with improvements

Yep.. I read through a number of articles about the leaked "Windows Blue" OS earlier today; and from most indications, it looks like Windows as we know it is going to be totally dead soon, where Windows users are going to be forced into using the new style (formerly known as Metro) UI, with the traditional style desktop being removed in future versions.

Here's one of the articles I read through.

http://www.pcworld.com/article/2031999/why-windows-blue-heralds-the-death-of-the-desktop.html

I really don't think Microsoft has a clue what they're doing; as I think we'll see more and more users becoming alienated and bitter towards the changes Microsoft is making to the UI over time; probably switching to other Operating Systems versus putting up with the UI changes Microsoft is trying to force on users.

IOW, I can see users of older Windows Operating Systems preferring Mac OS X, Linux, or even Chrome instead of Windows Blue from what it looks like Microsoft is going to do with it. Basically, most any other UI is going to be preferred by users that want a more traditional UI for use on a typical desktop with a larger display.

Many developers are going to hate it, too (since they'll have to sell their software via Microsoft's online stores with Microsoft getting a "cut" of their profits, since users won't be able to install new style apps from other sources)

But, only time will tell how Microsoft's strategy will pan out. Personally, I think they've lost their mind, and the changes will just make more users hate them. We'll have to wait and see how their changes will impact things.

In any event, I think it's way past time for Steve Ballmer to step down, as it seem very obvious to me that better leadership is needed to keep Microsoft from going rapidly downhill (as it looks like they're headed in the wrong direction now from what I can tell).

A separate OS that's optimized for Mobile devices is one thing.  But, trying to force that type of User Interface on Desktop users is something else entirely.

Apple is smart enough to realize that more than one Operating System is needed, so that the UI is optimized for specific device types (OS X for laptops and desktops; IOS for tablets and phones).   Even Google realizes that (Chrome OS for notebooks, Android for phones).

But, apparently, Microsoft thinks that a "jack of all trades and master at none) solution is going to work for them. Yea, right.  They're barking up the wrong tree, especially if they really go through with removing desktop compatibility with future releases, as some of the articles about Windows Blue imply.

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Simon Garrett
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Re: Yep -- Windows is a dead/dying OS
In reply to Jim Cockfield, Mar 26, 2013

There have been a lot of articles in similar vein the last few days, and I agree with your views, Jim.

It may well be in Microsoft's interests to try to force the new/metro UI on users and developers (so they can make money on every app), but I doubt it's in users' interests.  If they don't want a desktop operating system, fine - make it open source, and let others develop it.

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Jim Cockfield
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"bean counters" are working hard
In reply to Simon Garrett, Mar 26, 2013

Simon Garrett wrote:

There have been a lot of articles in similar vein the last few days, and I agree with your views, Jim.

It may well be in Microsoft's interests to try to force the new/metro UI on users and developers (so they can make money on every app), but I doubt it's in users' interests.

Yep... Given what appears to be a very "hard line" approach to force the new style on users, I suspect that the "bean counters" have been hard at work.

For example, figuring out what impact reduced sales of Windows will have because many users are going to hate it and refuse to upgrade to it (and/or switch to an alternative Operating System), versus increased revenue from software sales (since *all* apps designed for the new style UI will need to be purchased from Microsoft, where they'll make a profit on competitors applications, too).

So, they may have decided "to heck with the users", and are focusing on making more money from app sales, even if Windows sales decline because fewer buyers will want to use it.

If they don't want a desktop operating system, fine - make it open source, and let others develop it.

Yea.. that will never happen.

But, there are tons of nice open source linux distros available now, and most provide everything a typical desktop user needs.

I have Windows 7 and Linux distros installed on my computers, and I rarely need to use Windows for anything. Basically, you can get a nice desktop UI, with all of the software most users need with a mouse click or two (including Firefox or Chrome for Web Browsing, tons of nice media playback tools like VLC; video editors like OpenShot and Kdenlive, Office Suites like LibreOffice, mail clients like Thunderbird, etc. You can also find nice commercial apps like Corel AfterShot Pro for Image Management and RAW conversion (and there are lots of free alternatives, too).

Basically, most users would be fine with available Open Source alternatives to Windows; and I suspect that if Microsoft goes through with the changes to Windows we're hearing about in articles about Windows Blue; that more and more users are going to move away from Windows as time passes.

Microsoft "bean counters" are probably just figuring that they'll make up for that in profits from application sales via Microsoft's online stores for the users that remain with Windows. That wouldn't surprise me at all -- that Microsoft is taking a "hard line" towards forcing users into the new style (formerly known as Metro) interface so that they'll make more money from application sales (since all apps designed to work with the new UI will need to come from Microsoft's stores versus other sources), even if they end up losing revenue on Windows sales.

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