Red alert... red alert!

Started Mar 23, 2013 | Discussions
jcmarfilph
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Re: Red alert... red alert!
In reply to expressivecanvas, Mar 25, 2013

expressivecanvas wrote:

I've looked at these shots on three computers and two tablets... These photos look very odd to me because every cardinal I have ever seen is red... just as Joms' subject title implies... but, these are clearly orange cardinals. Other than that, these might be the best bird shots I have seen come from Joms so this camera might have been just what he needed to step up his bird photography.

Nice shooting... just watch the color shifts.

Patrick : )

As I have said male is not purely  red but red-orange with tendency to go more on the orange side.

-=[ Joms ]=-

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KJaay
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Re: Red alert... red alert!
In reply to Kim Letkeman, Mar 25, 2013

Can't wait!!!

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jcmarfilph
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Re: a few from the Fuji cams ...
In reply to Kim Letkeman, Mar 25, 2013

Kim Letkeman wrote:

Me Tarzan wrote:

Kim Letkeman wrote:

As for birding ... no, I don't go in for that.

Are you sure? These are fantastic for a non birder and I'd say the best bird images I've seen posted here. Definintely proven worthy of numerous publications. If you have more I would enjoy viewing them.

Very kind ... thanks so much.

I realized a moment ago that it really was not fair to have not included at least one image from one of the Fuji super zooms ...

HS25 ... possibly the same Nuthatch as shown in the newspaper image ...

A sleeping goose, still the HS25 ...

And just for fun ... another example of why we do not shoot L instead of M size ...

The Fuji XS-1 is rather impressive too ... larger sensor, excellent reach ... the only issue is the RAW support in Adobe Lightroom and ACR (and frankly any other converter.) But the JPEG engine leaves nothing on the table ...

Not a bird, but a small critter just the same ...

A heavy crop ...

At the Winnipeg zoo ... the shot that destroyed my D7000 and 70-300VR as I turned my back on the tripod ...

Not exactly a small bird

Another non-bird ... the reach helps when the animal is far away in a cage ...

It might be a bit weak at 3200ISO ... but the XS-1 can still bring home some nice snapshots ...

ISO 1600 too

Back to 3200 ... it's very dark indoors ...

Another not so small beast ... but far away ...

ISO 400 ... probably an L size shot ...

So ... perhaps that will help assuage the "don't show me all those dSLR shots" crowd ...

-- hide signature --

I can't hardly see any detail here that will better my shots so are you kiddin me?  These are oversharpened websize images to conceal smeary and mushy detail. High ISOs are OK though.

-- hide signature --

-=[ Joms ]=-

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KJaay
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Re: Red alert... red alert!
In reply to jcmarfilph, Mar 25, 2013

Excellent as always!

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Kim Letkeman
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Re: a few from the Fuji cams ...
In reply to jcmarfilph, Mar 25, 2013

jcmarfilph wrote:

I can't hardly see any detail here that will better my shots so are you kiddin me? These are oversharpened websize images to conceal smeary and mushy detail. High ISOs are OK though.

... you are entirely predictable ...

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Kim Letkeman
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Re: a few from the Fuji cams ...
In reply to Me Tarzan, Mar 25, 2013

Me Tarzan wrote:

Bravo! Those are superb. Thanks for taking time to post them.

Thanks Frank, much appreciated.

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Tim39
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Re: a few from the Fuji cams ...
In reply to jcmarfilph, Mar 25, 2013

jcmarfilph wrote:

I can't hardly see any detail here that will better my shots so are you kiddin me? These are oversharpened websize images to conceal smeary and mushy detail. High ISOs are OK though.

Don't hold back, Joms.  Let Kim know what you really think!

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Tim

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jcmarfilph
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Re: Red alert... red alert!
In reply to KJaay, Mar 25, 2013

KJaay wrote:

Excellent as always!

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KJ

Thanks KJ. Any plan on getting HS50 soon?

-=[ Joms ]=-

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jcmarfilph
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Re: a few from the Fuji cams ...
In reply to Tim39, Mar 25, 2013

Tim39 wrote:

jcmarfilph wrote:

I can't hardly see any detail here that will better my shots so are you kiddin me? These are oversharpened websize images to conceal smeary and mushy detail. High ISOs are OK though.

Don't hold back, Joms. Let Kim know what you really think!

-- hide signature --

Tim

Kim's snotty line is always like this.... "You should have used this setting (link to NS EXR crap), I can do better than this with link to (DSLR crap)" and will post samples all perfectly fit for smartphone screen.

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evoprox
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Re: Red alert... red alert!
In reply to jcmarfilph, Mar 25, 2013

I'm a little late, Joms, but these are just lovely shots of an exceptional bird IMO. I'm rather surprised about the smooth bokeh from that lens in most of those images (except #4).

Enjoy your new cam !

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jcmarfilph
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Re: Red alert... red alert!
In reply to evoprox, Mar 25, 2013

evoprox wrote:

I'm a little late, Joms, but these are just lovely shots of an exceptional bird IMO. I also like the smooth bokeh from that lens in most of those shots, except #4. Enjoy your new cam !

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'Have no fear of perfection - you'll never reach it.' Dali

Thanks Evo! I appreciate your comment. Yep bokeh is really nice with superzoom like this.

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tom1234567
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Re: a few from the Fuji cams ...
In reply to Kim Letkeman, Mar 25, 2013

Kim Letkeman wrote:

Me Tarzan wrote:

Kim Letkeman wrote:

As for birding ... no, I don't go in for that.

Are you sure? These are fantastic for a non birder and I'd say the best bird images I've seen posted here. Definintely proven worthy of numerous publications. If you have more I would enjoy viewing them.

Very kind ... thanks so much.

I realized a moment ago that it really was not fair to have not included at least one image from one of the Fuji super zooms ...

HS25 ... possibly the same Nuthatch as shown in the newspaper image ...

A sleeping goose, still the HS25 ...

And just for fun ... another example of why we do not shoot L instead of M size ...

The Fuji XS-1 is rather impressive too ... larger sensor, excellent reach ... the only issue is the RAW support in Adobe Lightroom and ACR (and frankly any other converter.) But the JPEG engine leaves nothing on the table ...

Not a bird, but a small critter just the same ...

A heavy crop ...

At the Winnipeg zoo ... the shot that destroyed my D7000 and 70-300VR as I turned my back on the tripod ...

Not exactly a small bird

Another non-bird ... the reach helps when the animal is far away in a cage ...

It might be a bit weak at 3200ISO ... but the XS-1 can still bring home some nice snapshots ...

ISO 1600 too

Back to 3200 ... it's very dark indoors ...

Another not so small beast ... but far away ...

ISO 400 ... probably an L size shot ...

So ... perhaps that will help assuage the "don't show me all those dSLR shots" crowd ...

-- hide signature --

Wow some great Photos here, keep them coming, do you have any taken with the HS50

if please also post the settings you used Thanks

Tom G

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Kim Letkeman
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Re: a few from the Fuji cams ...
In reply to jcmarfilph, Mar 25, 2013

jcmarfilph wrote:

Tim39 wrote:

jcmarfilph wrote:

I can't hardly see any detail here that will better my shots so are you kiddin me? These are oversharpened websize images to conceal smeary and mushy detail. High ISOs are OK though.

Don't hold back, Joms. Let Kim know what you really think!

-- hide signature --

Tim

Kim's snotty line is always like this.... "You should have used this setting (link to NS EXR crap), I can do better than this with link to (DSLR crap)" and will post samples all perfectly fit for smartphone screen.

No, that is not my line, snotty or otherwise. Every camera has its strengths, the 1/2" sensor cannot be shot the same way as the 4/3" sensor or the APS-C sensor. I showed samples from each, and you like to dismiss it all with one useless misdirection after another.

Since you are obviously bent on ignoring the best modes of EXR cameras, and since you obviously love to assert that my images are good for smartphone only (when in fact I post crops all the time to show the detail at 100%,) you can best contemplate a snotty attitude by having a look in a mirror.

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Kim Letkeman
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Re: a few from the Fuji cams ...
In reply to tom1234567, Mar 25, 2013

tom1234567 wrote:

Wow some great Photos here, keep them coming, do you have any taken with the HS50

Thanks. No HS50 yet. Hoping to get one from Fuji for testing this week.

if please also post the settings you used Thanks

The 1/2" sensor has been thoroughly sussed since 2009 ... this article summarizes the settings I use in the first section and then goes on to explain all sorts of variations.

Nothing Special: How to Shoot an EXR Camera

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tom1234567
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Re: a few from the Fuji cams ...
In reply to Kim Letkeman, Mar 25, 2013

Kim Letkeman wrote:

tom1234567 wrote:

Wow some great Photos here, keep them coming, do you have any taken with the HS50

Thanks. No HS50 yet. Hoping to get one from Fuji for testing this week.

if please also post the settings you used Thanks

The 1/2" sensor has been thoroughly sussed since 2009 ... this article summarizes the settings I use in the first section and then goes on to explain all sorts of variations.

Nothing Special: How to Shoot an EXR Camera

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Thanks for the link very helpful

Tom G

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jcmarfilph
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Re: a few from the Fuji cams ...
In reply to Kim Letkeman, Mar 25, 2013

Kim Letkeman wrote:

jcmarfilph wrote:

Tim39 wrote:

jcmarfilph wrote:

I can't hardly see any detail here that will better my shots so are you kiddin me? These are oversharpened websize images to conceal smeary and mushy detail. High ISOs are OK though.

Don't hold back, Joms. Let Kim know what you really think!

-- hide signature --

Tim

Kim's snotty line is always like this.... "You should have used this setting (link to NS EXR crap), I can do better than this with link to (DSLR crap)" and will post samples all perfectly fit for smartphone screen.

No, that is not my line, snotty or otherwise. Every camera has its strengths, the 1/2" sensor cannot be shot the same way as the 4/3" sensor or the APS-C sensor. I showed samples from each, and you like to dismiss it all with one useless misdirection after another.

You generalized settings based on your preferred type of shooting i.e wide angle shot of a thread and crayons.

Since you are obviously bent on ignoring the best modes of EXR cameras,

Nope. See my HS50 settings, I am using M size DR400 for casual type of shooting that doesn't require cropping and resolution for large printing. But for birds and macro, LSize is the way to go.

and since you obviously love to assert that my images are good for smartphone only (when in fact I post crops all the time to show the detail at 100%,)

Which one? 100% crop of a DSLR? Why don't you show 100% crops of upsized MSize to 16MP  images of your X-S1 and HS25.

you can best contemplate a snotty attitude by having a look in a mirror.

Your image is the one I am seeing right now. I have a magic mirror in front of me.

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Me Tarzan
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Exceptional link and information
In reply to Kim Letkeman, Mar 25, 2013

Thanks for posting that great link. I've never been 100% satisfied with my Fuji EXR cams, and I'm certain this information will help.

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Say Cheese!
Frank

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Kim Letkeman
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Re: a few from the Fuji cams ...
In reply to jcmarfilph, Mar 25, 2013

jcmarfilph wrote:

You generalized settings based on your preferred type of shooting i.e wide angle shot of a thread and crayons.

Always playing the fool ... I generalized the settings based on tens of thousands of images shot in all conditions. The L versus M debate has been documented over and over and over ... M always wins when you include any real world conditions like hair, fur, feathers, distant foliage, etc,

Nope. See my HS50 settings, I am using M size DR400 for casual type of shooting that doesn't require cropping and resolution for large printing. But for birds and macro, LSize is the way to go.

And you are wrong there. L is never the way to go. When you upsize (with some skill) to L size from M size, the actual visible detail is better and there is far less edge degradation.

You immune response to such basic information is truly dazzling.

Which one? 100% crop of a DSLR? Why don't you show 100% crops of upsized MSize to 16MP images of your X-S1 and HS25.

This is how I present all my L versus M debates and M always wins ...

Your image is the one I am seeing right now. I have a magic mirror in front of me.

I'll leave all the obvious jokes unspoken.

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kenn threed
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Re: Red alert... red alert!
In reply to expressivecanvas, Mar 25, 2013

Patrick wrote:

I've looked at these shots on three computers and two tablets... These photos look very odd to me because every cardinal I have ever seen is red... just as Joms' subject title implies... but, these are clearly orange cardinals. Other than that, these might be the best bird shots I have seen come from Joms so this camera might have been just what he needed to step up his bird photography.

Hi Patrick,

I believe that what you're noting may be some combination of the longer reach and improved image stabilization in the HS50... and perhaps the vagaries of Velvia. The natural color of Northern Cardinals does vary significantly based on habitat and diet mainly. Many are quite more orange than red, and of course the hues are not uniform, and are rather varied throughout their plumage. But small-sensors especially tend to bloom their highlights yellowish well below the blowout point in bright sunlight. Such exposures can be very tricky with male Cardinals especially... which are seldom well-exposed by AE algorithms generally imo. You will see many images of Cardinals which are intensely more crimson than any seen in the wild. But while there are indeed some very red ones out there, too many photographers tend to over-saturate them badly in post, (which of course is a Cardinal sin).

The HS50 sensor and jpeg engine renderings mostly still look quite poor at high resolutions to me though, with much detail still being lost to smearing and noise, even at base ISO. I think we're also seeing either pretty poor focus and/or lack of sharpness in many or most of the full-reach shots posted to-date. The developed RAW of #6 in this set is by far the best we've seen yet I'd say. But all the full-sizers posted thus far otherwise are not for the faint of heart amongst us pixel-peepers.

Still, I'll bet we've not yet seen the best the HS50 can do.

Kenn

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jcmarfilph
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Re: Red alert... red alert!
In reply to kenn threed, Mar 25, 2013

kenn threed wrote:

Patrick wrote:

I've looked at these shots on three computers and two tablets... These photos look very odd to me because every cardinal I have ever seen is red... just as Joms' subject title implies... but, these are clearly orange cardinals. Other than that, these might be the best bird shots I have seen come from Joms so this camera might have been just what he needed to step up his bird photography.

Hi Patrick,

I believe that what you're noting may be some combination of the longer reach and improved image stabilization in the HS50... and perhaps the vagaries of Velvia. The natural color of Northern Cardinals does vary significantly based on habitat and diet mainly. Many are quite more orange than red, and of course the hues are not uniform, and are rather varied throughout their plumage. But small-sensors especially tend to bloom their highlights yellowish well below the blowout point in bright sunlight. Such exposures can be very tricky with male Cardinals especially... which are seldom well-exposed by AE algorithms generally imo. You will see many images of Cardinals which are intensely more crimson than any seen in the wild. But while there are indeed some very red ones out there, too many photographers tend to over-saturate them badly in post, (which of course is a Cardinal sin).

The HS50 sensor and jpeg engine renderings mostly still look quite poor at high resolutions to me though, with much detail still being lost to smearing and noise, even at base ISO. I think we're also seeing either pretty poor focus and/or lack of sharpness in many or most of the full-reach shots posted to-date. The developed RAW of #6 in this set is by far the best we've seen yet I'd say. But all the full-sizers posted thus far otherwise are not for the faint of heart amongst us pixel-peepers.

Still, I'll bet we've not yet seen the best the HS50 can do.

Kenn

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http://kenn3d.smugmug.com
http://kenn3d.wordpress.com [Backyard Birding with Kenn & Temple]

I appreciate your feedback Kenn. And thanks you mentioned crimson red coz that is the color of the male adult cardinal. Here is another RAW version of one shot in this series...

I believe HS50 has a potential now because of the speed and longer reach so for your normal type of shooting which is 8-15 ft, I believe HS50 will outperform the output from SX40 and match SX50

-=[ Joms ]=-

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