Canon is about to launch super small DSLR. Implications for next Oly E?

Started Mar 19, 2013 | Discussions
mpeman
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Re: Uh ... it's a rumor ....
In reply to Philly, Mar 20, 2013

My bad.  I am used to most of Thom's posting on this site being geared toward the mirrorless.  I read so far, and stopped there.  My apologies!

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daddyo
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You are spot on, Seth!
In reply to SirSeth, Mar 20, 2013

As long as Canon continues to produce DSLR's that require DSLR size lenses, regardless of body size and weight, the biggest advantage of micro four thirds will be out of their reach. DSLR camera bags aren't heavy primarily because of heavy, large camera bodies, but because of the size and amount of glass being toted around.

I'm sure Canon will sell a truckload of these cameras, because they are Canon, and if they do their marketing right they will convince a lot of people that they are getting into a much smaller, lighter set up.

But that fantasy with go up in smoke the first time the happy user is trying to maneuver that tiny body attached to the back end of a $2,200, 3+ lb. Canon 70-200mm f/2.8L IS USM lens. Especially if they happen to be standing next to some GH3 or E-M5 shooter with his $1,500, 12.7 oz. Panasonic 35-100mm f/2.8 lens.

I'm with you -- Olympus and Panasonic should be out clinking champagne glasses together over this news.

God Bless,

Greg

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esco
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Re: Canon is about to launch super small DSLR. Implications for next Oly E?
In reply to Philly, Mar 20, 2013

If they release another 4/3 camera then its just gonna be for the die-hards just as Olympus themselves said the e-5 was. Its just hard to believe Olympus throwing another bone.

perhaps if its the small rumored hybrid ill buy one for the 14-54 I still have which I haven't taken off the e-400 in years

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esco
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Re: You are spot on, Seth!
In reply to daddyo, Mar 20, 2013

As long as Canon continues to produce DSLR's that require DSLR size lenses, regardless of body size and weight, the biggest advantage of micro four thirds will be out of their reach. DSLR camera bags aren't heavy primarily because of heavy, large camera bodies, but because of the size and amount of glass being toted around.

I'm sure Canon will sell a truckload of these cameras, because they are Canon, and if they do their marketing right they will convince a lot of people that they are getting into a much smaller, lighter set up.

But that fantasy with go up in smoke the first time the happy user is trying to maneuver that tiny body attached to the back end of a $2,200, 3+ lb. Canon 70-200mm f/2.8L IS USM lens. Especially if they happen to be standing next to some GH3 or E-M5 shooter with his $1,500, 12.7 oz. Panasonic 35-100mm f/2.8 lens.

I'm with you -- Olympus and Panasonic should be out clinking champagne glasses together over this news.

God Bless,

Greg

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This camera isn't to compete with mirrorless because that's what eos-m is for but I don't blame you guys for forgetting such a forgettable system, I suppose they are waiting for dslr sales to drop further before turning up the heat, who knows.

This new small rebel is just further shrinking for a camera that didn't need to be the size it was for the soccer moms and photog wannabes who never took off their kit lenses off anyway. The current rebel actually handles pretty well with pro lenses but barely anyone mounts one anyway so why not make it even smaller?

Canon seem to be trimming the fat off of many of their lines, the full frame 6d is pretty slim and petite for what it is - not the beast of a camera many people here would imagine it to be. I reckon many would think it was a mid-level cropped body before seeing the 6d label.

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CollBaxter
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Lets be honest.
In reply to Philly, Mar 20, 2013

This release for Canon is very interesting if not a master stroke . It shows that a APS-C can be shrunk down to a decent size. What is a mirror less camera other than a camera without a mirror. This gives one the advantage of making a smaller body and by changing the registration smaller lenses. OK now take the small (Shrunk down ) DSLR and lock the mirror up and you have a mirror less camera no. With the mount you also have a vast range of lenses available. From the UW to a 800mm. Then the thing that slipped in unnoticed in a lot of forums. The 40mm pancake this is a very good lens optically and quite small . This show that canon can make them small.

Canon will not be targeting the prime shooters with this camera they will be targeting the light weight zoom market ,the strollers and soccer moms , and current users who might want to hang it on a 800mm white tube if they so wanted to. So Canon makes a couple of small zooms and they have a camera that competes with the DSLR mirror less type cameras for the general public (weak of back and limp of wrist.)

Oh yes I will hear about the primes. This market (The vast percentage of camera owners) don't care about primes. ( let them eat cake says canon.) We also have a camera that will PDAF without the on sensor stuff etc (Which still does not work on any system properly even the Nikon which is restricted to a single point focus) . If this camera is real and the specs are correct and is released with small kit lenses than it is going to cause the mirror less market some major problems.

Whether that has any effect on 4/3 , I don't know. But what it will show is that you don't have to dump one line of camera to pursue an fickle user requirement. I have always said canon will cause major problems with their entry into the mirror less market . Their direct entry was a flop but they look like they are taking the approach of if we can't compete we will starve it to death.

Hopefully Olympus has had as much foresight as Canon.

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Ivo Verhaar
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Re: Lets be honest.
In reply to CollBaxter, Mar 20, 2013

No implications whatsoever... In the sense that if we get a E7 its form factor/body is already finished by now, it is currently undergoing field tests etc... And they will not scrap it redesign masively because canon might be bringing a small child....

It will however impact sales of the oly, especialy if canon makes it more tough... Though some current canon's dslr are already as small and lighter as a E-3/5!

Bottom line if you have money to burn love your 43 lenses you stick with oly, if you are on a tight budget, it might be cheaper to get a canon.

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SirSeth
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Re: Lets be honest.
In reply to CollBaxter, Mar 20, 2013

Collin, I think you're right about it being a master stroke, but in the competition against Nikon D3200, not against mirrorless anything imo. Canon made room in their line by up spec iterations of the Rebel or by selling T3i along side T4i. This is just Canon's new entry level DSLR, but it will be marketed as something new which is quite brilliant.

If the new lens is very small, it will make a fine little DSLR for people who don't end up ever buying another lens. It's the ultimate Christmas gift type camera. Canon brand. Small. Less expensive. And "new."  Oh, and Canon will laud it's "extensive lens catalog." Brilliant!

The K30 and D3200 are very good cameras already in the same price bracket. K30 is sealed, D3200 has more MP, EOS-B will be more compact. It's already a very crowded room. It's also a non-compete with mirrorless. The very good entry level DSLRs didn't swallow mirrorless alive. Neither will this.

Have a great day Collin. Hope all is well with you.

Best,

Seth

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SirSeth
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Re: Canon is about to launch super small DSLR. Implications for next Oly E?
In reply to Philly, Mar 21, 2013

Now that the camera is launched are your views on the implications any different?

Are we seeing the future or do you see it as a hashed over stripped down pathetic attempt at re-marketing the past?

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John_A_G
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Re: Canon is about to launch super small DSLR. Implications for next Oly E?
In reply to SirSeth, Mar 21, 2013

Now that the camera is launched are your views on the implications any different?

Are we seeing the future or do you see it as a hashed over stripped down pathetic attempt at re-marketing the past?

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Canon is trying to attack the market from a different angle.  A large segment of the market wants SMALL.  What the new camera will tell Canon is whether a aps-c DSLR is "small enough".  The response to this camera will determine how much you see Canon invest in mirrorless.  Is the camera, with CANON written on it, small enough to satisfy a big portion of the market segment so that Canon can take it's time with mirrorless?

I don't know about "master stroke", but it makes a lot of business sense.  The longer they can stave off having to create more mirrorless lenses and build out their technology the better.

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RobbGee
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Re: Canon is about to launch super small DSLR. Implications for next Oly E?
In reply to Philly, Mar 21, 2013

Hi All

The EOS has landed

I guess the new Oly E has already been designed and is launching this year regardless of the new competitive landscape.

Time will tell....

I still have 4/3 lenses that I hope I can use on a new Oly body and would like Olympus to do well. I'm hoping that the new "EOS-b" can generate new interest in small sized DSLR and that could help Oly--if the new E is on the small size, like an E-520 size. Then Oly would have a high end, small-size offering that could possibly coattail off Canon's marketing for the EOS-b.

Optimistic, but I agree...

Here comes the brown and sticky stuff...

Olympus has always taken pride in its miniaturization capabilities.

Canon has destroyed one of Olympus's U.S.P.s, this new body is smaller and lighter than both the E-420 and E-450. Upto now the worlds smallest dSLR's and the logical feeder path into the 4/3rds system.

I still remember what a breakthrough design the E-410 was, when it appeared. I hope Olympus can deliver an E-520 form factor with the new high end E.

Agree, but unless Olympus are quick to announce a new 400 series successor ALL this years small dSLRs buyers will have been seduced by Canon's marketing machine. Olympus "dreams" will be going head to head with Canon's reallity............

I know others would disagree on this.

My thoughts are not yet concrete, still in flux.........

Best

RobbGee

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CollBaxter
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Re: Canon is about to launch super small DSLR. Implications for next Oly E?
In reply to SirSeth, Mar 21, 2013

Seth after seeing the release I am now more convinced that this is a master stroke and excellent marketing. As to the Old tech . They had to dramatically down scale the camera. They did not put it in a vice and squash it , they probably have had to redesign the mirror box , etc. As to the 18MP sensor its still equal and better than some of the 4/3 stuff. Its an interesting approach and I think it will work. As to people on this site going on about it . Hell they would bet and argue  about 2 flies racing to see who get to a dog thing on the lawn first.

If a friend came to me and said they wanted a better camera that is not to big and something he could grow with I would recommend this canon.

Why not Olympus well I have to few friends as it is.

I went to a Sangoma to throw the bones  and offered him his usual 3 chickens , 1 goat , a bottle of brandy and R500 to tell me what Olympus would do and with 4/3 he said that we had tried this once before and it was an impossible task an I was to bugger off and and take my things back and not bother him again.

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Philly
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Re: Canon is about to launch super small DSLR. Implications for next Oly E?
In reply to SirSeth, Mar 21, 2013

SirSeth wrote:

Now that the camera is launched are your views on the implications any different?

Are we seeing the future or do you see it as a hashed over stripped down pathetic attempt at re-marketing the past?

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I still think that any implications on Oly's E system, from the Canon 100D, is dependent upon the form factor of the new E.  If Oly comes out with an E-7 that is similar in size as the E-5, then I think Oly is back to marketing in its own little world, mostly inhabited by Olympus aficionados.  If the 100D stimulates a market demand for small form factor DSLRs, Oly would counter with its mirrorless products.  This may end up helping m4/3 as the comparisons should be favorable for Oly.  But the new E (if it is large) would be left out of the party--standing in the corner, with its own little clique.

But if the "E-7" takes a small-size form, then I still think there is an opportunity for Olympus to revive its marketing message of producing innovative, high-feature products in the DSLR segment.  I know Canon will be putting marketing dollars into the 100D.  But I don't think they're planning to build a family of small DSLR products.  They're segmenting the camera market by equating the mirrorless segment NOT as a "compact camera system" segment, but as the "small, entry level" segment.  So I don't think they're going to offer a full range of small DSLR products.  If you want something more featured than a 100D, you would need to "up-size", to stay with Canon.

So if the E-7 is small--say E-5xx size, or even E-4xx size with add on grip option--then it would be an attractive up-market product in the small DSLR segment.  It would be (arguably) the ONLY high-end product in that segment, with small-size, high-end lenses.  Hopefully, Olympus would be able to piggyback off of Canon's marketing dollars for the 100D.

I think the Canon 100D's miniaturization puts it a little ahead of Oly's past E-4xx products (probably).  But the E-4xx series is a five year product line.  I would think that Oly can still out miniaturize Canon if it put its resources behind it.  This is a core competency of Olympus.  Maybe that is why Olympus never followed up the E-5 with a simple sensor upgrade--they've decided to stay true to the company's innovative history, and not just milk the installed base with one last iteration (I am hoping).  So I think a small, high-end Oly DSLR with true Oly R&D behind it, could be a very exciting product in 2013--especially if Canon is making a push for people to look at small DSLRs.

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Craig from Nevada
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Re: Canon is about to launch super small DSLR. Implications for next Oly E?
In reply to Philly, Mar 22, 2013

It provides a chance for Canon to offer its users an alternative to OMD.  Olympus tapped into the "second camera" market with people looking for smaller cameras that take great photos.

Canon solved the camera part, but not the lens part. The latter affects portability, size and weight.

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pris
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Re: Canon is about to launch super small DSLR. Implications for next Oly E?
In reply to Philly, Mar 22, 2013

Philly wrote:

So if the E-7 is small--say E-5xx size, or even E-4xx size ...

...then it has an OVF of such crappy quality that there is no way it can be put in "pro" category, or (if pro designation doesn't matter much) called a flagship. There is a good reason while smaller DSLRs have those tunnel OVFs. Not even mentioning a room for decent display, direct buttons and balance with bigger lenses. In short, if E-7 is a DSLR, even 5xx size is highly doubtful, and you can forget about 4xx for sure.

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TrapperJohn
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Yes, an act of desperation
In reply to SirSeth, Mar 22, 2013

Because it has APS lenses, and APS registration distance. It's still bigger, always will be. Mainly, it's fat. And once you've used one of the slender bodies, fat just doesn't cut it for portability.

Granted, an OMD with HG ZD isn't small either, but I have the option of putting on some of the really good miniature lenses, like the 45 1.8. With that lens on, it's about as thick as an APS DSLR with no lens. I see the OMD-Pro with fast ZD AF as the dream camera for me - tiny when I want it, or larger and killer IQ with HG/SHG ZD when I want it. As it is, I put up with the sluggish AF and get by okay.

Poor Canon, desperately clinging to what they know best, as the game changes. It's funny how they bested Nikon years ago when they jumped on AF while Nikon dawdled. And here it's happening again, only they're the ones dragging up the rear this time.

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