Canon is about to launch super small DSLR. Implications for next Oly E?

Started Mar 19, 2013 | Discussions
Philly
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Canon is about to launch super small DSLR. Implications for next Oly E?
Mar 19, 2013

http://photorumors.com/2013/03/19/first-pictures-of-the-upcoming-canon-eos-kiss-x7-dslr-camera/#more-40282

I'm surprised no one brought this up here, yet.  But the rumored new Canon will be significantly lighter than the Oly E620--370g vs. 470g (without batteries).

I guess the new Oly E has already been designed and is launching this year regardless of the new competitive landscape.  I still have 4/3 lenses that I hope I can use on a new Oly body and would like Olympus to do well.  I'm hoping that the new "EOS-b" can generate new interest in small sized DSLR and that could help Oly--if the new E is on the small size, like an E-520 size.  Then Oly would have a high end, small-size offering that could possibly coattail off Canon's marketing for the EOS-b.

Olympus has always taken pride in its miniaturization capabilities.  I believe the original E-1 was marketed as a small, professional system--though the camera itself wasn't that small.  I still remember what a breakthrough design the E-410 was, when it appeared.  I hope Olympus can deliver an E-520 form factor with the new high end E.  I know others would disagree on this.

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CollBaxter
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Re: Canon is about to launch super small DSLR. Implications for next Oly E?
In reply to Philly, Mar 19, 2013

EOS-d is a down scaled 550D. Yep it is smaller but is targeted at the people who would not use big lenses in any case.

Its targeted at the OMD market. That is where the thrust will come. Its about the same size as the new pany.

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Re: Canon is about to launch super small DSLR. Implications for next Oly E?
In reply to Philly, Mar 19, 2013

As a DSLR, how small will the OVF be on this one?
Considering the penta mirror box size (probably not a prism here, due to low price point), it's gotta be pretty small. And that was one of the major criticisms against Oly E.xxx, right?

For the upcoming E-7, it's gotta be much bigger than this. Hopefully min. E-1 size, or still like E-5, which works a charm on ZD HG/SHGs. Should you want smaller than that, then go for the OMD Pro, which will also have PDAF support.

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Philly
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Re: Canon is about to launch super small DSLR. Implications for next Oly E?
In reply to CollBaxter, Mar 19, 2013

CollBaxter wrote:

EOS-d is a down scaled 550D. Yep it is smaller but is targeted at the people who would not use big lenses in any case.

It is also mirror less so it targets the OMD market.

I always aid watch out when canon get serious about mirror less .

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I believe this new Canon has a mirror with an optical viewfinder. The rumored specs indicate that the viewfinder is 95% coverage with approx. 0.87x magnificantion--which would make it a bigger size viewfinder than that on the E-30 (98%, 1.02x), after adjusting for crop factor.

I think Canon announcements have been very lackluster in recent years, but I am kind of excited about the small size. Maybe this is not an important marketing message for others? But if the small size does create a buzz, Oly could capitalize--if it also moves the high end E to a small form factor.

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CollBaxter
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Re: Canon is about to launch super small DSLR. Implications for next Oly E?
In reply to Philly, Mar 19, 2013

OK I saw my mistake a and edited my response before you posted.

I Actually think this release is the reason why Olympus should release a DSLR. It shows that you don't have to go mirror less to go small . Olympus have to play in both parks. Now it the time for a small DSLR and a big PRO DSLR.

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Philly
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Re: Canon is about to launch super small DSLR. Implications for next Oly E?
In reply to eaa, Mar 19, 2013

eaa wrote:

As a DSLR, how small will the OVF be on this one?
Considering the penta mirror box size (probably not a prism here, due to low price point), it's gotta be pretty small. And that was one of the major criticisms against Oly E.xxx, right?

For the upcoming E-7, it's gotta be much bigger than this. Hopefully min. E-1 size, or still like E-5, which works a charm on ZD HG/SHGs. Should you want smaller than that, then go for the OMD Pro, which will also have PDAF support.

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For me, the E-520 size was perfect. I know others differ. But I don't think that the E-x cameras were successful. And as good as the sensor on E-M5 is, it is still not up to the level of the top APS sensors (but close). Maybe an E-520 size will help differentiate the new E, assuming it is marketed at the semi-pro level. Whereas the m4/3 system has built an incumbent advantage through its large lens offering, I think an Oly semi-pro DSLR needs to be in its own niche, to compete in the DSLR marketplace. It would be nice if Olympus could pick off some new customers, and not just existing 4/3 installed base.

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Craig from Nevada
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Re: Canon is about to launch super small DSLR. Implications for next Oly E?
In reply to Philly, Mar 19, 2013

It took Canon 4 years to build an e-620

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Bobbert
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Re: Canon is about to launch super small DSLR. Implications for next Oly E?
In reply to Craig from Nevada, Mar 19, 2013

What people forget is that the weight of the body is the least important part of the whole package. A larger sensor means larger and heavier lenses. Try to find a 50-200 f2.8 for any competitor at even close to that weight. By the time you add up a bag of lenses the whole package is much heavier than my e30 with the 50-200, 12-60 and 9-18. And if I want to go very light, with the 12-60 and 40-150

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Skeeterbytes
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Re: Canon is about to launch super small DSLR. Implications for next Oly E?
In reply to Philly, Mar 19, 2013

Frankly, while Oly and Canon are both in the camera business they're following parallel (non-converging) paths for the most part. I especially don't think Canon's dslr movements have any impact on Oly's strategy whatsoever. Should they eventually do a better job with the EOS-M, that would merit Oly's attention.

Canon is surprisingly conservative, considering its market position.

Cheers,

Rick

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Craig from Nevada
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Re: Canon is about to launch super small DSLR. Implications for next Oly E?
In reply to Bobbert, Mar 19, 2013

Bobbert wrote:

What people forget is that the weight of the body is the least important part of the whole package. A larger sensor means larger and heavier lenses. Try to find a 50-200 f2.8 for any competitor at even close to that weight. By the time you add up a bag of lenses the whole package is much heavier than my e30 with the 50-200, 12-60 and 9-18. And if I want to go very light, with the 12-60 and 40-150

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No arguments from me on that point.  The E-620 with battery grip and 50-200mm lens is the right size and weight.

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In reply to Philly, Mar 19, 2013

of a Panasonic CFF are going around..........and yes...they are only rumors from what I know and  have read......

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Uh ... it's a rumor ....
In reply to Philly, Mar 19, 2013

... not a certainty.  Why suggest otherwise?  Besides, if it's the same 18MP sensor in the 7D/60D/t4i, I think it stinks.

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Re: Uh ... it's a rumor ....
In reply to veroman, Mar 19, 2013

I have not suggested anything.  Just like the OP's post here is just a rumor I said.....

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Philly
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Re: Uh ... it's a rumor ....
In reply to veroman, Mar 19, 2013

veroman wrote:

... not a certainty. Why suggest otherwise? Besides, if it's the same 18MP sensor in the 7D/60D/t4i, I think it stinks.

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SteveG
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Well, here's another mention:

http://www.sansmirror.com/newsviews/dancing-with-elephants.html

Some rumors are more certain than others--like the rumor that the next E will be launched this year.  I thought most people on this board follow the camera gear market more closely than I do, and would have a sense of how reliable this rumor is.

I think it will probably have the same 18MP sensor as on 7D/60D/t4i.  So any market interest on this camera will be primarily driven by its form factor (and price point).

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mpeman
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Re: Uh ... it's a rumor ....
In reply to Philly, Mar 19, 2013

veroman wrote:

... not a certainty. Why suggest otherwise? Besides, if it's the same 18MP sensor in the 7D/60D/t4i, I think it stinks.

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SteveG
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Well, here's another mention:

http://www.sansmirror.com/newsviews/dancing-with-elephants.html

Some rumors are more certain than others--like the rumor that the next E will be launched this year. I thought most people on this board follow the camera gear market more closely than I do, and would have a sense of how reliable this rumor is.

I think it will probably have the same 18MP sensor as on 7D/60D/t4i. So any market interest on this camera will be primarily driven by its form factor (and price point).

Um.  Did you notice how Thom has it listed as a mirrorless camera?  This means an electronic viewfinder...not an optical one.  This camera is closer to the OM-D than anything else.  Plus, when you consider that other manufacturers have made smaller cameras with optical viewfinders, it would appear that Canon is a little bit late to this party.  I believe they will be stealing customers from themselves.

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Kevin
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esco
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Re: Canon is about to launch super small DSLR. Implications for next Oly E?
In reply to Philly, Mar 19, 2013

http://photorumors.com/2013/03/19/first-pictures-of-the-upcoming-canon-eos-kiss-x7-dslr-camera/#more-40282

I'm surprised no one brought this up here, yet. But the rumored new Canon will be significantly lighter than the Oly E620--370g vs. 470g (without batteries).

I guess the new Oly E has already been designed and is launching this year regardless of the new competitive landscape. I still have 4/3 lenses that I hope I can use on a new Oly body and would like Olympus to do well. I'm hoping that the new "EOS-b" can generate new interest in small sized DSLR and that could help Oly--if the new E is on the small size, like an E-520 size. Then Oly would have a high end, small-size offering that could possibly coattail off Canon's marketing for the EOS-b.

Olympus has always taken pride in its miniaturization capabilities. I believe the original E-1 was marketed as a small, professional system--though the camera itself wasn't that small. I still remember what a breakthrough design the E-410 was, when it appeared. I hope Olympus can deliver an E-520 form factor with the new high end E. I know others would disagree on this.

I'm not sure where people get the notion that Olympus is still competing in the dslr market??
Olympus stopped worrying about anything canikon was doing a long time ago and focused on mirrorless where it has a chance and no you won't find them officially stating that 4/3's is dead because well that doesn't sound good for the company. It's just not good pr, not that their current pr situation is very bright either.
Sony also never officially said they'd do away with the optical viewfinders on their top-end FF line but they did which was a huge smack to the face of the decent amount of working pros who were using their ff system since most still prefer ovf's. Nikon didn't say anything about the d100/d200/d300(s) line of bodies being discontinued but they haven't made a cropped sensor sports body ever since! If you're wanting a blazing frame-rate you are forced to buy an fx body. It isn't in a corporation's benefit to announce things that could tarnish their reputation or upset a good amount of people , its better to release an alternative product that some of those people may possibly transition into instead and pretend nothing happened. .i.e. 4/3 into m4/3's
problem is oly's transition is pretty much jumping into a different mount, hence the mass exodus of 4/3 users. . .this place has become a ghost town in comparisons to how it used to be.

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Philly
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Re: Uh ... it's a rumor ....
In reply to mpeman, Mar 19, 2013

veroman wrote:

... not a certainty. Why suggest otherwise? Besides, if it's the same 18MP sensor in the 7D/60D/t4i, I think it stinks.

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SteveG
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Well, here's another mention:

http://www.sansmirror.com/newsviews/dancing-with-elephants.html

Some rumors are more certain than others--like the rumor that the next E will be launched this year. I thought most people on this board follow the camera gear market more closely than I do, and would have a sense of how reliable this rumor is.

I think it will probably have the same 18MP sensor as on 7D/60D/t4i. So any market interest on this camera will be primarily driven by its form factor (and price point).

Um. Did you notice how Thom has it listed as a mirrorless camera? This means an electronic viewfinder...not an optical one. This camera is closer to the OM-D than anything else. Plus, when you consider that other manufacturers have made smaller cameras with optical viewfinders, it would appear that Canon is a little bit late to this party. I believe they will be stealing customers from themselves.

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Regards,
Kevin
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Uh...I think you need to re-read Thom's article.  He stated that Canon is "bracketing" mirrorless with the EOS-M mirrorless and the EOS-b DSLR.  Here's a snip from Thom's article:  "the EOS B looks mighty competitive with a lot of the mirrorless players, yet retains the phase detect autofocus and optical view of the DSLRs"

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Roger Engelken
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Re: Canon is about to launch super small DSLR. Implications for next Oly E?
In reply to Philly, Mar 20, 2013

http://photorumors.com/2013/03/19/first-pictures-of-the-upcoming-canon-eos-kiss-x7-dslr-camera/#more-40282

I'm surprised no one brought this up here, yet. But the rumored new Canon will be significantly lighter than the Oly E620--370g vs. 470g (without batteries).

I guess the new Oly E has already been designed and is launching this year regardless of the new competitive landscape. I still have 4/3 lenses that I hope I can use on a new Oly body and would like Olympus to do well. I'm hoping that the new "EOS-b" can generate new interest in small sized DSLR and that could help Oly--if the new E is on the small size, like an E-520 size. Then Oly would have a high end, small-size offering that could possibly coattail off Canon's marketing for the EOS-b.

Olympus has always taken pride in its miniaturization capabilities. I believe the original E-1 was marketed as a small, professional system--though the camera itself wasn't that small. I still remember what a breakthrough design the E-410 was, when it appeared. I hope Olympus can deliver an E-520 form factor with the new high end E. I know others would disagree on this.

Well, with the march of technology, each and every camera manufacturer faces the same challenge.  The timeline from initial conception of the body to its' release is no doubt of some period of time, time in which the advancement of technology (whether for good or not) continues.  This puts Olympus in the same boat as any other manufacturer, sort of leveling the playing field in that way if no where else.  Time will tell what happens and what the next Olympus camera or cameras will bring.  I have more than enough enjoyment and challenges with my E-1, E-5, E-420 and E-620 to keep me busy throughout the year.  In many ways, the time of anticipation is the most enjoyable time of all, with the limitless possibilities.  Get out and enjoy the hobby.  

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Philly
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Re: Canon is about to launch super small DSLR. Implications for next Oly E?
In reply to esco, Mar 20, 2013

http://photorumors.com/2013/03/19/first-pictures-of-the-upcoming-canon-eos-kiss-x7-dslr-camera/#more-40282

I'm surprised no one brought this up here, yet. But the rumored new Canon will be significantly lighter than the Oly E620--370g vs. 470g (without batteries).

I guess the new Oly E has already been designed and is launching this year regardless of the new competitive landscape. I still have 4/3 lenses that I hope I can use on a new Oly body and would like Olympus to do well. I'm hoping that the new "EOS-b" can generate new interest in small sized DSLR and that could help Oly--if the new E is on the small size, like an E-520 size. Then Oly would have a high end, small-size offering that could possibly coattail off Canon's marketing for the EOS-b.

Olympus has always taken pride in its miniaturization capabilities. I believe the original E-1 was marketed as a small, professional system--though the camera itself wasn't that small. I still remember what a breakthrough design the E-410 was, when it appeared. I hope Olympus can deliver an E-520 form factor with the new high end E. I know others would disagree on this.

I'm not sure where people get the notion that Olympus is still competing in the dslr market??
Olympus stopped worrying about anything canikon was doing a long time ago and focused on mirrorless where it has a chance and no you won't find them officially stating that 4/3's is dead because well that doesn't sound good for the company. It's just not good pr, not that their current pr situation is very bright either.
Sony also never officially said they'd do away with the optical viewfinders on their top-end FF line but they did which was a huge smack to the face of the decent amount of working pros who were using their ff system since most still prefer ovf's. Nikon didn't say anything about the d100/d200/d300(s) line of bodies being discontinued but they haven't made a cropped sensor sports body ever since! If you're wanting a blazing frame-rate you are forced to buy an fx body. It isn't in a corporation's benefit to announce things that could tarnish their reputation or upset a good amount of people , its better to release an alternative product that some of those people may possibly transition into instead and pretend nothing happened. .i.e. 4/3 into m4/3's
problem is oly's transition is pretty much jumping into a different mount, hence the mass exodus of 4/3 users. . .this place has become a ghost town in comparisons to how it used to be.

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I agree that Oly shouldn't be competing directly with Nikon and Canon in the DSLR market.  I think that was a fatal mistake in their strategy when they came out with the E-1 and tried to compete with canikon head on.  But how should they market the next E?  Is it just an upgrade offering for current Oly DSLR users?  If they are to try to get new DSLR buyers, how will Oly differentiate itself against the Nikon 7100 or the next iterations of the D300 and 7D?  But camera size is a key point of differentiation, as Canon appears to be acknowledging with the new (rumored) camera.  So I am just pointing out a potential new lifeline for the new Oly DSLR--if turns out to be a small form factor, and if it can benefit from the buzz that Canon may generate from a small-size DSLR niche market.  In that case, Oly would be a high end offering that wouldn't directly compete against Canon, at least for the time being.

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SirSeth
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This all but guarantees that Canon won't compete...
In reply to Philly, Mar 20, 2013

.... in the mirrorless market. At least that's how I read it. Specs were leaked on Best Buy web sight and many rumor sites, so I think EOS-b is a pretty sure thing.

Some folks are wondering if this new super small Canon DSLR spells doom for mirrorless cameras. I presume they think the only selling point for mirrorless is the size of the cameras. This sums it up very clearly to me--Canon will not complete in the mirrorless market and will try to sell this as something new. They will market it the small size of the camera, on the huge lens catalog (even if most camera lens combinations are just silly), and maybe the smallest camera with an OVF. But it's just a smaller trimmed down Rebel and that's it. Olympus already tried this route with the E-4xx.

The EOS-b will have lots of monstrously large lenses to negate any size advantage that the body brings. Mirrorless cameras with their lenses are much smaller systems all together. They are better for video and live view than DSLRs, better for legacy lenses, better for HD video. The EVFs are improving in leaps and bounds.

Olympus, Panasonic, Sony, and Fuji should be doing a happy dance right now imo. As far as Olympus DSLRs go, 4/3rds and E-system don't really compete with super small DSLRs any more. The E-4xx series has been replaced by mirrorless. The current and next OM-D is Olympus' answer to the EOS-b.

Best,

Seth

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