Pana is rumored to plan CFF (compact full frame) for post M43

Started Mar 19, 2013 | Discussions
ProPhotoDude
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Pana is rumored to plan CFF (compact full frame) for post M43
Mar 19, 2013

The future seems to be Full Frame sensors in all kind of bodies, from standard DSLRs, to compacts such as Sony RX1 and to mirrorless being planned by Panasonic and also perhaps Sony.

Canon's Masaya let the cat out of the bag when he said that semi-pros will go FF in near future.
"There will be a Canon EOS 70D, but the future of semi-pro DSLRs is probably full-frame, says Masaya Maeda" http://www.dpreview.com/articles/0336328811/cp-2013-interview-with-canons-masaya-maeda

There is a rumor going around that in a Panasonic long term planning meeting they announced that M43 is ultimately transitional product and the next big thing for them is to offer the "CFF" or Compact Full Frame mirrorless cameras.

The plan is to offer FF in as small and light bodies as possible and to develop brand new FF lenses to also be as light and compact as possible.

Just a few years ago, if you wanted FF, you had to spend 7000+. Now you can get them for just about 2000. Next they'll be offered at the $1500 price point.

Since in the short few years Canon and Nikon will offer $1500 FFs, this would create even a larger gap that currently exists between M43 sensors and the APS-C. Keep in mind that M43 started when FFs were still out of the reach of most people.

Pls don't ask me for my source and I am sure everyone at Pana will deny this, as it will affect the sale of the current M43 cameras. This is just a rumor, but makes real sense to me.

Canon EOS 70D Sony RX1
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Gregm61
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Re: Pana is rumored to plan CFF (compact full frame) for post M43
In reply to ProPhotoDude, Mar 19, 2013

ProPhotoDude wrote:

Pls don't ask me for my source ...

Of course not

I'll just add to my ignore list.

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DLBlack
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Re: Pana is rumored to plan CFF (compact full frame) for post M43
In reply to ProPhotoDude, Mar 19, 2013

Kind of explain why there is only two lenses for MFT on their public lens roadmap and these two lenses are not going to be rleased until late this year or even next year.  Their optical engineers have to be doing something and it just might be the designing of a line of full frame lenses.

Still it gets to the point where good things gets developed to the point where it is good enough and maybe even exceeds a persons biological limits.  Kind of like printers and once they got to the point that they exceeded the biological limits of your eyes printer improvements have slowed down.  FF can give you better control of DOF if you want to have limited DOF.  The DR, high iso and tonal range are all slightly better but still most are now better than what monitors and paper will show so their is only very little to gain going FF.  Still for whatever reason the market is going there.  Just maybe Pentax with their medium format is a few years ahead of their time. 

Dave

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bunfoolio
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Why would Full frame Mirrorless affect M4/3?
In reply to ProPhotoDude, Mar 19, 2013

Lenses would still be big right???

Seems like 2 diffferent markets.

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Trevor Carpenter
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Re: Pana is rumored to plan CFF (compact full frame) for post M43
In reply to ProPhotoDude, Mar 19, 2013

A couple of questions

As full frame is a term based upon 35mm cameras does that mean that 35mm was the perfect media.  What would full frame be  if there had never been 35mm?

If you could achieve the same, results, (which to most people they can), with a smaller ergonomically friendly body would you really want a big weighty camera.

I've just spent 5 days on the tourist trail in Berlin with my G5 and it was a joy to have with me.I probably will never want anything larger.(I don't particularly want anything smaller either).

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DtEW
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Re: Pana is rumored to plan CFF (compact full frame) for post M43
In reply to ProPhotoDude, Mar 19, 2013

Your juvenile attempt at spreading FUD is laughable.

I say this as somebody with no affiliation to Panasonic nor m43, don't ask for sources.

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Charles Pike
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M 4/3 The sweet spot.
In reply to Trevor Carpenter, Mar 19, 2013

You use the G5 and I have the G3.  We both use the same lens.  I think that m 4/3 really hits the sweet spot for a lot of people.  Not to big and not too small.  I used one of the big boys for 40 years, and wanted something smaller.  I am out of the buying gear for as far as I can see at least for a new body.  I might be tempted to purchase a longer lens like the 45 mm lens as a short tele lens just for the speed.  But I have the 14 mm, 20 mm, 25 mm, 14-45 mm and 45-200 mm lens and just picked up a second G3.  At this point you don't see me much in this forum, I am more apt to be over in the Documentary or Street Photo forum, or maybe the b&w forum than here.  I used to carry around two large DSLR's and 5 lens, plus 2 flash guns.  Today when I go out to shoot, I take one body and either the 20 mm or 25 mm lens and just have fun taking photos.

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s_grins
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Cannon Masadiya rumors DOA
In reply to ProPhotoDude, Mar 19, 2013
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KenBalbari
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Re: Pana is rumored to plan CFF (compact full frame) for post M43
In reply to ProPhotoDude, Mar 19, 2013

If full frame gets more affordable in the future, that means 4/3 should also be even more affordable still. Smaller sensor will always be cheaper than larger.  Smaller sensor will mean smaller lenses, less cost of materials there as well.

So it's all good.

M4/3 cameras and lenses certainly aren't going to be any worse than they are now.

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FrankS009
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Re: Pana is rumored to plan CFF (compact full frame) for post M43
In reply to ProPhotoDude, Mar 19, 2013

Such surmises are titillating but essentially negative based on fear that Panasonic is going to drop m4/3rds as a "transitional" product. Along with that goes added fears about what Panasonic engineers are doing with their time between lens announcements etc. Lets enjoy what we have, and distance ourselves from the negative. A mirrorless Panasonic FF might be interesting for some uses. It might support the m4/3rds line. I look forward to the future of photography, includiing Panasonic photography!

F.

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BJN
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M 4/3 is a sweet spot.
In reply to Charles Pike, Mar 19, 2013

There are several sweet spot formats. Horses for courses.

I personally can't imagine Panasonic deciding it should compete with Nikon, Canon, and Sony in their own backyard. And I can't imagine them thinking that the world needs another lens mount that will take a decade or more to populate.

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ProPhotoDude
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Re: Pana is rumored to plan CFF (compact full frame) for post M43
In reply to DLBlack, Mar 19, 2013

They have to follow market direction, the only format that seems to be eternal is 35mm.  it's used in film industry too and now the digital video camera are using 35mm sensors.

DLBlack wrote:

Still for whatever reason the market is going there.

Dave

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ProPhotoDude
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Re: Why would Full frame Mirrorless affect M4/3?
In reply to bunfoolio, Mar 19, 2013

dimensionally they have to be wider, but the plan is get innovative and cut down on lens weight.

bunfoolio wrote:

Lenses would still be big right???

Seems like 2 diffferent markets.

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ProPhotoDude
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Re: Pana is rumored to plan CFF (compact full frame) for post M43
In reply to Trevor Carpenter, Mar 19, 2013

35 seems to be the eternal format.

35 is the standard in both photography and also cinema.  Both formats are now attempting to recreate 35 in the digital form as well.  With photography being ahead of film for a while now.

keep in mind every time we look at a lens, we'd have to say what the lens mm is in 35 format. for example this is 20mm in MFT but really 40mm in 35mm.

35mm is THE format.

Trevor Carpenter wrote:

A couple of questions

As full frame is a term based upon 35mm cameras does that mean that 35mm was the perfect media. What would full frame be if there had never been 35mm?

If you could achieve the same, results, (which to most people they can), with a smaller ergonomically friendly body would you really want a big weighty camera.

I've just spent 5 days on the tourist trail in Berlin with my G5 and it was a joy to have with me.I probably will never want anything larger.(I don't particularly want anything smaller either).

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danijel973
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Re: Pana is rumored to plan CFF (compact full frame) for post M43
In reply to ProPhotoDude, Mar 19, 2013

There is more money in m43 than it is in 35mm so I don't really see why Panasonic would invest a lot of money into making cameras and lenses that would barely make a profit, if at all (competing with Canon, Nikon and Sony) when they have already struck gold?

Contrary to the experience with 43, which was made because 35mm sensors were too expensive and lost its buyers as 35mm became affordable, m43 is actually very close to ideal in its market segment. The image quality is still excellent, DoF control is still possible, and the lenses and cameras are as small as practical.

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SkiHound
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Re: Pana is rumored to plan CFF (compact full frame) for post M43
In reply to Trevor Carpenter, Mar 19, 2013

There have been many formats. Many that are larger than the "full frame" 135 format. 35mm film cameras became widely used and kind of became the de facto standard. The term full frame has just become kind of an arbitrary reference. I'd be pretty surprised if Panasonic releases a FF camera. It would require developing an entirely new line of lenses. Just don't see either Oly or Panasonic going down that path. But I'm certainly not an industry insider.

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BingoCharlie
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Re: Why would Full frame Mirrorless affect M4/3?
In reply to bunfoolio, Mar 19, 2013

bunfoolio wrote:

Lenses would still be big right???

Seems like 2 diffferent markets.

Exactly. Sony can't even make decent sized/high quality APS-C lenses for the NEX. All the good ones are pretty big. FF will only exacerbate this problem.

Even the lens on the RX-1 is big, and we can assume Sony made it as small as possible without compromising optical quality.

That's for a fixed 35mm that is sunk deep into the camera body. No way they can make FF tele lenses very small, which sort of defeats the purpose of not just buying a DSLR.

You cannot change the laws of physics, laws of physics, Jim.

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John Buechler
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Re: Pana is rumored to plan CFF (compact full frame) for post M43
In reply to ProPhotoDude, Mar 19, 2013

Will it boil down to which technology is developed the fastest, sensor or lens miniaturization ? Sensor for M4/3 or lens for full frame. John

PS: I vote on sensor.

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Acrill
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Re: Pana is rumored to plan CFF (compact full frame) for post M43
In reply to ProPhotoDude, Mar 19, 2013

ProPhotoDude wrote:

They have to follow market direction, the only format that seems to be eternal is 35mm. it's used in film industry too and now the digital video camera are using 35mm sensors.

Is this what you say or what your 'source' says?

get outta here

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zkz5
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Lens roadmap comparison...
In reply to DLBlack, Mar 19, 2013

DLBlack wrote:

Kind of explain why there is only two lenses for MFT on their public lens roadmap

How many lenses are there are Nikon's public lens roadmap?

Did the recently released 45-150 and 14-42 II appear on Panasonic's public lens roadmap?

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