*** 5Dc vs 60D resolution test ***

Started Mar 17, 2013 | Discussions
qianp2k
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*** 5Dc vs 60D resolution test ***
Mar 17, 2013

Inspired by the thread http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/thread/3398807, I just did similar test between my 60D and 5Dc with various lenses.

Places: Indoor on a dollar bill, and outdoor in local school park, cross a vast open field targeted on a remote school building.

Weather condition: cloudy day so it's under soft light condition (instead of part of photos in harsh sunlight and part of photos is in shadow as tested by OP in the above thread). The light condition in this thread is pretty consistent.

Exposure: Manual exposure and checked EXIF first to make sure they are exposed the same (or the closest).

Aperture: Use F5.6 on 5D, and F4.0 on 60D which are respective optimized aperture on respective lenses on respective crop formats.

Lenses used in this test: Canon EF 24-70L/2.8 II, 24-105L/4.0 IS, 70-200L/4.0 IS and Sigma 17-50/2.8 OS (only for reference as it's my walk-around lens on my 60D).

Focus distance: 24mm on 60D vs 38.4mm (tried my best to be close as only can guess on lens' distance window that doesn't have direct 38.4mm mark). 70mm on 60D vs 112mm on 5D (tried my best to be close as only can guess on lens'' distance window that doesn't have direct 112mm mark).

Focus point: the same spot in the remote building.

Focus method: AF on 5D (it doesn't have LV), MF (with 10x LV precisely)/AF on 60D. I make sure to turn off IS/OS on all lenses on tripod, MLR with 2-sec timer. Remote release (cable on 5D and wireless release on 60D).

Processed: All taken in RAW format and converted in Canon DPP with default setting, neutral preset. Only changes are adding a bit sharpness, +3 RAW in 5D files and +7 RAW in 60D files in DPP.

I. Indoor under constant indoor light on a dollar bill.

In very close distance just outside min focus distance.  It is a very small center area.

5D+24-70L II



60D+24-70L II



5D+24-105L



60D+24-105L

II. Outdoor in the school Park



5D+24-70L II



60D+24-70L II



60D+Simga 17-50/2.8 OS at 17mm (27 FF eq) only for reference



5D+24-105L



60D+24-105L



5D+70-200L/4.0 IS



60D+70-200L/4.0 IS



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MAC
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Re: *** 5Dc vs 60D resolution test ***
In reply to qianp2k, Mar 17, 2013

I wouldn't even get a 24-105 close to a 60d -- it gets eaten.  It even gets eaten on a 5dii.

F4 zooms are Meh in comparison to F1.2-F2.8 Primes

So look at the "squigglies" under the Secretary of  Treasury!

60d + 24-70II Wins!

btw -- my T4i + 70-200 F2.8 L wins in resolution-- in the center to mid frame -- where is counts

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The Davinator
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Well done
In reply to qianp2k, Mar 17, 2013

I see the 5D has very slightly better corners, and the 60D is slightly better in the center and middle areas.  This definitely shows that you never saw an advantage in resolution or sharpness after the files were reduced to 2000 pixels wide.

That said, the test seems well executed...at least at my cursory glance.  Not sure why you chose DPP as it is probably the worst raw converter for detail and would harm the results from both the 5D and 60D.

In all fairness, I think you did a good, and fair job.  That said, it shows the 5D resolves less....so please, no more posts about the rez.

Well done.

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Sovern
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Re: *** 5Dc vs 60D resolution test ***
In reply to qianp2k, Mar 17, 2013

The differences that I'm seeing is that the 5D photos are more crisp and have less noise. The 60D photos actually look slightly blurry or hazy and have more noise compared to the 5D photos.

Before anyone calls me a fanboy or w/e I use a crop factor 40D so there is no bias here.

Anyone that says that MP's are more important than sensor size such as the 5Dc which has a 2.5X bigger sensor than the 60D are not well educated on the topic or else cheap micro 4/3rd cameras would be outperforming the 5Dc and the 5Dmkii.

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Sovern
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Re: Well done
In reply to The Davinator, Mar 17, 2013

Dave Luttmann wrote:

I see the 5D has very slightly better corners, and the 60D is slightly better in the center and middle areas. This definitely shows that you never saw an advantage in resolution or sharpness after the files were reduced to 2000 pixels wide.

That said, the test seems well executed...at least at my cursory glance. Not sure why you chose DPP as it is probably the worst raw converter for detail and would harm the results from both the 5D and 60D.

In all fairness, I think you did a good, and fair job. That said, it shows the 5D resolves less....so please, no more posts about the rez.

Well done.

I disagree. The 5Dc very obviously resolves more detail than the 60D.

Remember, I use a crop factor camera...I am not biased.

The differences are quite large on my large monitor.

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Mako2011
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Re: *** 5Dc vs 60D resolution test ***
In reply to qianp2k, Mar 17, 2013

qianp2k wrote:


Focus method: AF on 5D (it doesn't have LV), MF (with 10x LV precisely)/AF on 60D. I make sure to turn off IS/OS on all lenses on tripod, MLR with 2-sec timer. Remote release (cable on 5D and wireless release on 60D).

Both pics seem soft or slightly out of focus. Does the lens perhaps need a bit of fine tuning?

Processed: All taken in RAW format and converted in Canon DPP with default setting, neutral preset. Only changes are adding a bit sharpness, +3 RAW in 5D files and +7 RAW in 60D files in DPP.

Why add sharpness? That would seem to negate any resolution comparison. As it stands, the 60D pic does seem to easily out resolve the 5D pic. Was the subject distance the same?

I. Indoor under constant indoor light on a dollar bill.

In very close distance just outside min focus distance. It is a very small center area.

5D+24-70L II



60D+24-70L II



Can you make the full file after conversion and prior to sharpening available? Some of the EXIF is left out due to the crop I think. Appreciate the comparison. Thank you.

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The Davinator
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Re: Well done
In reply to Sovern, Mar 17, 2013

Sovern wrote:

Dave Luttmann wrote:

I see the 5D has very slightly better corners, and the 60D is slightly better in the center and middle areas. This definitely shows that you never saw an advantage in resolution or sharpness after the files were reduced to 2000 pixels wide.

That said, the test seems well executed...at least at my cursory glance. Not sure why you chose DPP as it is probably the worst raw converter for detail and would harm the results from both the 5D and 60D.

In all fairness, I think you did a good, and fair job. That said, it shows the 5D resolves less....so please, no more posts about the rez.

Well done.

I disagree. The 5Dc very obviously resolves more detail than the 60D.

Remember, I use a crop factor camera...I am not biased.

The differences are quite large on my large monitor.

I suggest you look at the cash photo and look at the detail in the loops under the signatures.  The 5D can barely resolve the loop...and the 60D clearly shows it with the 24-70.  It is painfully obvious.....so no, you arent able to disagree.

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MAC
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Re: Well done
In reply to Sovern, Mar 17, 2013

Sovern wrote:

Dave Luttmann wrote:

I see the 5D has very slightly better corners, and the 60D is slightly better in the center and middle areas. This definitely shows that you never saw an advantage in resolution or sharpness after the files were reduced to 2000 pixels wide.

That said, the test seems well executed...at least at my cursory glance. Not sure why you chose DPP as it is probably the worst raw converter for detail and would harm the results from both the 5D and 60D.

In all fairness, I think you did a good, and fair job. That said, it shows the 5D resolves less....so please, no more posts about the rez.

Well done.

I disagree. The 5Dc very obviously resolves more detail than the 60D.

Remember, I use a crop factor camera...I am not biased.

The differences are quite large on my large monitor.

no, just like the prior thread in the lens forum

The crop sensor resolves more in the center

and the 5dc at the edges

T4i is amazing camera btw -- Bryan at The Digital Picture Site talks about how Canon tuned the Raw files at 1dx sharpness levels.

These are processed -- zero on the LR sharpness slider

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Mako2011
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Re: Well done
In reply to The Davinator, Mar 17, 2013

Dave Luttmann wrote:

I see the 5D has very slightly better corners, and the 60D is slightly better in the center and middle areas. This definitely shows that you never saw an advantage in resolution or sharpness after the files were reduced to 2000 pixels wide.

That said, the test seems well executed...at least at my cursory glance. Not sure why you chose DPP as it is probably the worst raw converter for detail and would harm the results from both the 5D and 60D.

In all fairness, I think you did a good, and fair job. That said, it shows the 5D resolves less....so please, no more posts about the rez.

Well done.

Agreed, pretty well done. The resolution advantage to the 60D is obvious but I'm not sure we have perfect focus so lens might be playing havoc. Good Job all around though.

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The Davinator
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Re: *** 5Dc vs 60D resolution test ***
In reply to Mako2011, Mar 17, 2013

Mako2011 wrote:

qianp2k wrote:


Focus method: AF on 5D (it doesn't have LV), MF (with 10x LV precisely)/AF on 60D. I make sure to turn off IS/OS on all lenses on tripod, MLR with 2-sec timer. Remote release (cable on 5D and wireless release on 60D).

Both pics seem soft or slightly out of focus. Does the lens perhaps need a bit of fine tuning?

Processed: All taken in RAW format and converted in Canon DPP with default setting, neutral preset. Only changes are adding a bit sharpness, +3 RAW in 5D files and +7 RAW in 60D files in DPP.

Why add sharpness? That would seem to negate any resolution comparison. As it stands, the 60D pic does seem to easily out resolve the 5D pic. Was the subject distance the same?

I. Indoor under constant indoor light on a dollar bill.

In very close distance just outside min focus distance. It is a very small center area.

5D+24-70L II



60D+24-70L II



Can you make the full file after conversion and prior to sharpening available? Some of the EXIF is left out due to the crop I think. Appreciate the comparison. Thank you.

There are a lot of variables.  That said, I give him credit for posting the series when it shows the 60D resolving more...which contradicts what he said in the past.  Not many people would have the cahoonas to still post the results

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The Davinator
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My first ever thumbs up to Peter (nt)
In reply to qianp2k, Mar 17, 2013
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Mako2011
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lines
In reply to Sovern, Mar 17, 2013

Sovern wrote:

The differences that I'm seeing is that the 5D photos are more crisp and have less noise. The 60D photos actually look slightly blurry or hazy and have more noise compared to the 5D photos.

Looking at the lines under the "O" in dollar"...I can resolve and count the lines in the 60D pic and can't in the 5D pic. I think MAC is right one.

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MAC
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Re: My first ever thumbs up to Peter (nt)
In reply to The Davinator, Mar 17, 2013

Dave Luttmann wrote:

He just trumped dxo MPix!

I told him DXO was moving the crop sensor farther away which was unfair

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Sovern
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Re: Well done
In reply to The Davinator, Mar 17, 2013

Dave Luttmann wrote:

Sovern wrote:

Dave Luttmann wrote:

I see the 5D has very slightly better corners, and the 60D is slightly better in the center and middle areas. This definitely shows that you never saw an advantage in resolution or sharpness after the files were reduced to 2000 pixels wide.

That said, the test seems well executed...at least at my cursory glance. Not sure why you chose DPP as it is probably the worst raw converter for detail and would harm the results from both the 5D and 60D.

In all fairness, I think you did a good, and fair job. That said, it shows the 5D resolves less....so please, no more posts about the rez.

Well done.

I disagree. The 5Dc very obviously resolves more detail than the 60D.

Remember, I use a crop factor camera...I am not biased.

The differences are quite large on my large monitor.

I suggest you look at the cash photo and look at the detail in the loops under the signatures. The 5D can barely resolve the loop...and the 60D clearly shows it with the 24-70. It is painfully obvious.....so no, you arent able to disagree.

Yes I can disagree take a lot at the bottom landscape photos the difference is very noticeable the text looks unclear in the 60D photo and clear in the 5Dc photo not to mention the 5Dc photo has much less noise and looks crisp.

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Sovern
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Re: Well done
In reply to MAC, Mar 17, 2013

MAC wrote:

Sovern wrote:

Dave Luttmann wrote:

I see the 5D has very slightly better corners, and the 60D is slightly better in the center and middle areas. This definitely shows that you never saw an advantage in resolution or sharpness after the files were reduced to 2000 pixels wide.

That said, the test seems well executed...at least at my cursory glance. Not sure why you chose DPP as it is probably the worst raw converter for detail and would harm the results from both the 5D and 60D.

In all fairness, I think you did a good, and fair job. That said, it shows the 5D resolves less....so please, no more posts about the rez.

Well done.

I disagree. The 5Dc very obviously resolves more detail than the 60D.

Remember, I use a crop factor camera...I am not biased.

The differences are quite large on my large monitor.

no, just like the prior thread in the lens forum

The crop sensor resolves more in the center

and the 5dc at the edges

T4i is amazing camera btw -- Bryan at The Digital Picture Site talks about how Canon tuned the Raw files at 1dx sharpness levels.

These are processed -- zero on the LR sharpness slider

The T4i might be the best Rebel but it's still a rebel....no Custom Dials, cheap shutter & build, ergonomics that aren't as good as the non Rebels.

Also the 5Dc photos look noticeably sharper than the T4i photos that you posted and I'm not even pixel peeping.

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Sovern
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Re: lines
In reply to Mako2011, Mar 17, 2013

Mako2011 wrote:

Sovern wrote:

The differences that I'm seeing is that the 5D photos are more crisp and have less noise. The 60D photos actually look slightly blurry or hazy and have more noise compared to the 5D photos.

Looking at the lines under the "O" in dollar"...I can resolve and count the lines in the 60D pic and can't in the 5D pic. I think MAC is right one.

I never looked at the dollar photos, in the more real world landscape photos the 5Dc photo is much more crisp and the text is more clear while the 60D photo looks noise in comparison.

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MAC
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Re: Well done
In reply to Sovern, Mar 17, 2013

Sovern wrote:

MAC wrote:

Sovern wrote:

Dave Luttmann wrote:

I see the 5D has very slightly better corners, and the 60D is slightly better in the center and middle areas. This definitely shows that you never saw an advantage in resolution or sharpness after the files were reduced to 2000 pixels wide.

That said, the test seems well executed...at least at my cursory glance. Not sure why you chose DPP as it is probably the worst raw converter for detail and would harm the results from both the 5D and 60D.

In all fairness, I think you did a good, and fair job. That said, it shows the 5D resolves less....so please, no more posts about the rez.

Well done.

I disagree. The 5Dc very obviously resolves more detail than the 60D.

Remember, I use a crop factor camera...I am not biased.

The differences are quite large on my large monitor.

no, just like the prior thread in the lens forum

The crop sensor resolves more in the center

and the 5dc at the edges

T4i is amazing camera btw -- Bryan at The Digital Picture Site talks about how Canon tuned the Raw files at 1dx sharpness levels.

These are processed -- zero on the LR sharpness slider

The T4i might be the best Rebel but it's still a rebel....no Custom Dials, cheap shutter & build, ergonomics that aren't as good as the non Rebels.

Also the 5Dc photos look noticeably sharper than the T4i photos that you posted and I'm not even pixel peeping.

have you owned and experienced the new rebel? No, just your old rebel.

I've owned and experienced your 40d for 5 years.

This is about resolution and details.  hint --  find the word "details"

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springbock
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Re: My first ever thumbs up to Peter (nt)
In reply to The Davinator, Mar 17, 2013

Somebody hijacked his account. There is no way he would post anything contradictory to his mission.

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qianp2k
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Re: *** 5Dc vs 60D resolution test ***
In reply to Mako2011, Mar 17, 2013

Mako2011 wrote:

qianp2k wrote:


Focus method: AF on 5D (it doesn't have LV), MF (with 10x LV precisely)/AF on 60D. I make sure to turn off IS/OS on all lenses on tripod, MLR with 2-sec timer. Remote release (cable on 5D and wireless release on 60D).

Both pics seem soft or slightly out of focus. Does the lens perhaps need a bit of fine tuning?

No, they are not.  60D should have even slight theoretical advantage as I used MF (and also AF but MF is only very slightly better) while 50D only can AF (it's impractical to use MF without a Magnifying Viewfinder) on the mercy of no BF/FF issues.

Processed: All taken in RAW format and converted in Canon DPP with default setting, neutral preset. Only changes are adding a bit sharpness, +3 RAW in 5D files and +7 RAW in 60D files in DPP.

Why add sharpness? That would seem to negate any resolution comparison. As it stands, the 60D pic does seem to easily out resolve the 5D pic. Was the subject distance the same?

Otherwise even mushy, and 5D will have a bit advantage.

I. Indoor under constant indoor light on a dollar bill.

In very close distance just outside min focus distance. It is a very small center area.

5D+24-70L II



60D+24-70L II



Can you make the full file after conversion and prior to sharpening available?

Please provide a link that I can upload RAW files.  I don't have a site can hold RAW files.

Some of the EXIF is left out due to the crop I think. Appreciate the comparison. Thank you.

No, they are not.  All photos have EXIF but only 24-105L is reported in EXIF while others are not.

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Re: *** 5Dc vs 60D resolution test ***
In reply to qianp2k, Mar 18, 2013

Just give you an idea how far I shoot in the school park from my earlier 5D3 test with 24-70L II under a blue-sky sunny day. All my OP photos in the school park absolutely shoot from the same distance.

I shoot from about 150-200 meters away cross a vast open field from the same spot as in OP against the same remote school building, and applied much more sharpening (for max sharpness before showing artifact that already showed up) in the photos below.  But anyway just show a 22mp 5D3 with 24-70L II can resolve from that distance.





24mm 100% cropped



70mm 100% cropped

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