Disappointing

Started Feb 23, 2013 | User reviews
mfromsoaks
New MemberPosts: 2
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Disappointing
Feb 23, 2013

Like many I am looking for a replacement for my 5D mIII that I find I'm leaving home too often due to its weight.

Having tried and returned 2 Fuji's - X100 and X1 Pro, great colour but unacceptably slow focusing - I thought the Sony NEX would fit the bill. Over the Xmas holiday I had borrowed a NEX 7 and was generally impressed with it. When the NEX 6 was announced with WIFI and Apps I thought it would be similar but for the lower pixel count so I ordered it with the new 16-50OSS, 16mm prime, 50mm prime and the 18-200OSS.

I am surprised by some of the reviews left here so far because my experience is very different.

The short of it the sensor on the NEX 6 is greatly inferior to the NEX 7. So bad in fact I am packing it up and returning it. While I might try the soon to be announced 7N this NEX 6 experience has made me very, very wary of the NEX lineup altogether.

Problems:

- very slow focusing in even average light. Spot focusing is slightly better but still searches aimlessly far too often particularly at longer focal lengths
- anything above ISO 800 has a LOT of noise compared to the canon sensors I'm used to
- significant chromatic aberration that is visible even at moderate crops
- the 16-50mm kit lens is a joke. Slow, soft, flimsy.
- the only lens that moderately impressed me was the 50mm prime. A bit of vignetting but the only one fast and sharp enough to be considered as an SLR replacement. While the 18-200 has a solid feel and sharpness, it is slow which is a problem with the general artefacting of the sensor in lower light situations.
- the two features that made me opt for the 6 instead of the 7 were not worth it. The apps are far and few between, clunky and fiddly to access. The app idea on cameras has merit but this is poorly implemented here. WIFI integration and real time upload to local PC is similarly poorly implemented at the moment

mfromsoaks's score
1.0
Average community score
3.8
bad for good for
Kids / pets
poor
Action / sports
awful
Landscapes / scenery
okay
Portraits
weak
Low light (without flash)
awful
Flash photography (social)
weak
Studio / still life
okay
= community average
Canon EOS 5D Fujifilm FinePix X100 Leica X1 Sony Alpha NEX-7
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jafary
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Re: Disappointing
In reply to mfromsoaks, Mar 31, 2013

Apparently fast AF is very important to you. You should have done your homework correctly, because no mirrorless camera offers an equivalent to DSLR AF right now. I find the new in sensor PDAF in the NEX-6 a good progress, and AF speed in good light is acceptable, though not yet fast enough for any action photography. For the excessive noise at high ISO, I think you've been spoiled by your full-frame camera. But compared to same sensor size cameras, the NEX-6 is up to the current offer. Again, it is important to know what a camera is capable of, and whether it fits with your needs or not.

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Astrophotographer 10
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Re: Disappointing
In reply to jafary, Mar 31, 2013

Not my experience at all. I have D800E, Fuji XE1 and Nex 6.

Nex 6 is an all round responsive camera.

Canon sensors are way behind Sony. Its a bit rich to be saying how great your Canon sensor is. They are at least 1 to 2 generations behind. They also have poor DR at low ISO. They still suffer from banding in shadow areas, Nex does not.

Canon uses the high power of their Digic 5 to cover all this up with aggreesive noise reduction.

So maybe you are used to that. It was mentioned in DPreview of 6D the jpegs have a soft plastic look. But yes low noise. I think they have overcompensated for noise at the expense of jpeg image quality. XE1 leaves them behind in jpeg quality.

Chromatic aberration of course comes from lenses not the camera unless you get magenta cast at sides of images on Nex 7 with UWA lenses. So that is a simple matter of chosing better quality lenses. There are plenty including many legacy lenses that are cheap and super high quality. I have not seen chromatic aberrations in my shots so far.

The kit lens costs perhaps 1/2 to 1.3rd of a standard Canon or Nikon kit lens. So keep that in mind.

As far as AF goes I am not sure what you are expecting. I have yet to have AF even been an issue in any shot I have taken in the last 2 weeks. The Fuji XE1 AF is a bit slower and yes Nikon and Canon (in 5D3/ not necessarily 6D or 5D2).

I think you'll find high ISO noise levels in RAW (not Digic 5 mushed jpegs) to be similar or better in the more advanced Exmor sensored Nex 6. Additionally Canon's implementation of onchip PDAF is inferior to Sonys from what I have read.

Yes a $4000 top of the line Canon should be expected to be better than a $700 Nex 6. How is that a problem? They are not even in the same market?

Yes a Ferrari that costs $300,000 is going to be better than a $30,000 Toyota, we already know that.

Greg.

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bzx
bzx
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brilliantly said! but...
In reply to Astrophotographer 10, Mar 31, 2013

... I wouldn't feed an old thread which was ignored (for a reason!). Oh well, I am doing it just now

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t[+]m

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Mike Sivcevic
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Re: Disappointing
In reply to mfromsoaks, Jun 13, 2013

I am in pretty much the same shoes as you, I'm coming to NEX-6 from Canon 5D mk 2 with some high quality glass.

However, after using NEX for a week or so, I'm beginning to realise that it's actually a damn good camera for the money I paid. It's, in fact, an extremely good camera.

Like you, I was trying to compare it to 5D mk 2, feature by feature, but then I realised that while 5D is better in almost every way, in no way it's 5 times better, not even twice.

Going back to basics and thinking of the reason why we bought NEX-6 in the first place - portability, this camera is absolute perfection, considering its size and cost.

Yes, there are things that I don't like about it, but 5D is not innocent either, so it's a matter of balance. Oh, the kit lens, yes - it is a joke, but I guess there is a reason why it's called a "kit" lens.

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bill hansen
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Re: Disappointing
In reply to mfromsoaks, Jun 13, 2013

Coming to a NEX from many years with Canon DSLRs, most recently a 50D with L lenses, my experience has been completely different from yours. Since I got the NEX, the 50D hasn't been used once.

I'm very surprised at the excellent image quality of my NEX 6 and lenses (not the 1650PZ though), and at the amazingly good high ISO performance of the camera, when shooting in RAW. ISO 1600 is amazingly smooth even for prints of 12X18 inches, with very slight touches of noise reduction. ISO 3200 is easily useable with a bit more NR, and even for large web images with almost no NR.

Maybe you're shooting only JPEGs, and I agree that the JPEG engine of the NEX is disappointing, in the sense that there's so much noise reduction that it smears images at ISOs above 100. But the RAW engine is excellent.

Focusing isn't quite as fast as it is with my 50D, but even without the LA-EA2 adapter, it's quite fast - much faster than I expected. With the LA-EA2 and an A mount lens, focusing is almost - almost - as fast as it is with the 50D.

I thought that as others have complained, I'd find the interface of the NEX complex and confusing, but that hasn't been so. A book on the NEX helped a little with that.

My original plan had been to retain my 50D for "important" images, but I'm rethinking that, and will probably sell the 50D soon.

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Bill Hansen
Ithaca NY, USA

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pede59
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Re: Disappointing
In reply to bill hansen, Jun 13, 2013

Can't sepak to the NEX6, i use a NEX7. From available comparisons though i assume thatthe IQ is very comparable.

That said i went from Canon 7D to Nex7. I read about sensor comparisons below (DXOmark) and thought these are just meaningless numbers. However, what i see appears to directly reflect the DXOmark comparisons. The NEX sensor is in a different class than the 7D sensor. Of course the 5Dii or 5Diii are FF and therefore will deliver better IQ compared to a APS-C sensor with same resolution.

The one argument that does not seem to come up in this thread is size. To me it does not make sense to compare a Nex6 or Nex7 to a 5diii without talking about size and prize. If size and prize don't matter why would i not get a N800 or a Canon 1Dx or 5diii? Or a PhaseOne?

I was not fully sold on Nex when i first got it. But i was attracted by the small form factor combined with a great sensor. And the end result was that i did not use my 7D anymore.

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GaryR60
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Re: Disappointing
In reply to mfromsoaks, Jun 13, 2013

mfromsoaks wrote:

Like many I am looking for a replacement for my 5D mIII that I find I'm leaving home too often due to its weight.

Having tried and returned 2 Fuji's - X100 and X1 Pro, great colour but unacceptably slow focusing - I thought the Sony NEX would fit the bill. Over the Xmas holiday I had borrowed a NEX 7 and was generally impressed with it. When the NEX 6 was announced with WIFI and Apps I thought it would be similar but for the lower pixel count so I ordered it with the new 16-50OSS, 16mm prime, 50mm prime and the 18-200OSS.

I am surprised by some of the reviews left here so far because my experience is very different.

The short of it the sensor on the NEX 6 is greatly inferior to the NEX 7. So bad in fact I am packing it up and returning it. While I might try the soon to be announced 7N this NEX 6 experience has made me very, very wary of the NEX lineup altogether.

Problems:

- very slow focusing in even average light. Spot focusing is slightly better but still searches aimlessly far too often particularly at longer focal lengths
- anything above ISO 800 has a LOT of noise compared to the canon sensors I'm used to
- significant chromatic aberration that is visible even at moderate crops
- the 16-50mm kit lens is a joke. Slow, soft, flimsy.
- the only lens that moderately impressed me was the 50mm prime. A bit of vignetting but the only one fast and sharp enough to be considered as an SLR replacement. While the 18-200 has a solid feel and sharpness, it is slow which is a problem with the general artefacting of the sensor in lower light situations.
- the two features that made me opt for the 6 instead of the 7 were not worth it. The apps are far and few between, clunky and fiddly to access. The app idea on cameras has merit but this is poorly implemented here. WIFI integration and real time upload to local PC is similarly poorly implemented at the moment

Hmmm...first, you acknowledged the lower pixel count of the NEX-6 sensor, and then you complain that the NEX-6 sensor is "greatly inferior?" What did you expect? Furthermore, what - aside from the obvious difference in pixel count - do you find different between the two?

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SQLGuy
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Re: Disappointing
In reply to GaryR60, Jun 13, 2013

Check the stats on the OP. He has one post, four months ago, and that's it. It's very unlikely he's reading any of these responses.

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Nex-7 with kit lenses, Contax G 35, and a number of legacy lenses (mostly Canon FD)

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aodi
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Re: Disappointing
In reply to mfromsoaks, Jun 14, 2013

Great little camera, very good IQ according my and and others experience and numerous reviews.

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Anatoli

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captura
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Re: Disappointing
In reply to aodi, Jun 14, 2013

aodi wrote:

Great little camera, very good IQ according my and and others experience and numerous reviews.

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Anatoli

I'm sure it is because my 5R is and they're basically the same. One has to experiment a bit with the menu, different setting to see what works and what doesn't. In sports mode my 5R exceeds my Canon for AF. Focus tracking is pretty good but the screen isn't as good as the competition's.

I think the OP wrote that he had to return his XE-1 because of slow AF. Some people just make all the mistakes. A firmware update solved the XE-1 and the X-PRO-1's slow AF.

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zink
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Re: Disappointing (the review is!)
In reply to mfromsoaks, Jun 14, 2013

What a wonderful first post! Congratulations. That must have been a most satisfying job to do. Go and carry around a 5D mkIII together with a ton of glass to take a picture of your kids. I am glad I can do that without a broken back with my most humble NEX-F3.

BTW, what kind of people rate this "review" with thumbs up?

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GaryR60
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Re: Disappointing
In reply to SQLGuy, Jun 14, 2013

SQLGuy wrote:

Check the stats on the OP. He has one post, four months ago, and that's it. It's very unlikely he's reading any of these responses.

-- hide signature --

Nex-7 with kit lenses, Contax G 35, and a number of legacy lenses (mostly Canon FD)

Oh, well.

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FuzzyQball
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Re: Disappointing
In reply to mfromsoaks, Jun 15, 2013

Interesting take on things.  Yes speed of focus is an issue, but I am not sure where the sensor gets low marka, although I think it was a tiny bit of a compromise over the 5n which I have.  Why not just get a 7 then?

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Glenn

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GXRuser
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Re: Disappointing
In reply to jafary, Jun 15, 2013

jafary wrote:

Apparently fast AF is very important to you. You should have done your homework correctly, because no mirrorless camera offers an equivalent to DSLR AF right now. I find the new in sensor PDAF in the NEX-6 a good progress, and AF speed in good light is acceptable, though not yet fast enough for any action photography. For the excessive noise at high ISO, I think you've been spoiled by your full-frame camera. But compared to same sensor size cameras, the NEX-6 is up to the current offer. Again, it is important to know what a camera is capable of, and whether it fits with your needs or not.

On the whole, a very good response. Some comments:

The NEX-7 has a superb sensor. It only fails with symmetric design (rangefinder) adapted wide and super wide angle lenses.

The NEX-6 does a much better job with wide and super wide angle lenses. It's sensor will never be as good as the sensor in the NEX-7 when it comes to noise.

Because of the use of micro-lenses to compensate for the short flange distance of lens mount to sensor, the best platform for M-mount rangefinder lenses is the Leica M, ME, M9 with a full frame sensor and the Ricoh GXR and Leica M8 for sensors similar in size to the NEX-7.

As for autofocus, the best performance is with full frame and APS-C dSLRs that have phase detection. This includes the Sony Nex series with the EA2 adapter (SLT) with Alpha lenses.

The surprise cameras for fast and accurate autofocus is the 1 Nikon series. These cameras have autofocus that approaches the performance of dSLRs. This is due to a very good implementation of on sensor phase detection (currently better than Sony, but that may change in the next year) with lenses that have low mass of focusing elements made possible by a clean sheet design for the smaller 1" sensor.

This week Nikon has fixed some issues with 1 Nikon series... C-AF is now possible with the FT-1 adapter, the focus ring is now recognized with the new 32mm f1.2 lens, and the V2 EVF hesitation has now been corrected.

For the sole purpose of a compact camera with fast AF, the 1 Nikon series fills a niche.

For overall image quality in a mirrorless, I think the Sony NEX 6 or 7, or the Sigma or Fuji at low iso levels are very special.

For an alternative to a Leica M, the Ricoh GXR with M Mount module or a Sony Nex 6 yields great quality. IF lenses shorter than 40mm are to be used, the Nex 7 should be avoided (unless you are willing to shoot RAW and use corner fix in post processing).

As you said, choice of camera should follow an understanding of one's needs.

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BigG30
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The most retarded post on DPR for a while
In reply to mfromsoaks, Jun 15, 2013

mfromsoaks wrote:

Like many I am looking for a replacement for my 5D mIII that I find I'm leaving home too often due to its weight.

Having tried and returned 2 Fuji's - X100 and X1 Pro, great colour but unacceptably slow focusing - I thought the Sony NEX would fit the bill. Over the Xmas holiday I had borrowed a NEX 7 and was generally impressed with it. When the NEX 6 was announced with WIFI and Apps I thought it would be similar but for the lower pixel count so I ordered it with the new 16-50OSS, 16mm prime, 50mm prime and the 18-200OSS.

I am surprised by some of the reviews left here so far because my experience is very different.

The short of it the sensor on the NEX 6 is greatly inferior to the NEX 7. So bad in fact I am packing it up and returning it. While I might try the soon to be announced 7N this NEX 6 experience has made me very, very wary of the NEX lineup altogether.

Problems:

- very slow focusing in even average light. Spot focusing is slightly better but still searches aimlessly far too often particularly at longer focal lengths
- anything above ISO 800 has a LOT of noise compared to the canon sensors I'm used to
- significant chromatic aberration that is visible even at moderate crops
- the 16-50mm kit lens is a joke. Slow, soft, flimsy.
- the only lens that moderately impressed me was the 50mm prime. A bit of vignetting but the only one fast and sharp enough to be considered as an SLR replacement. While the 18-200 has a solid feel and sharpness, it is slow which is a problem with the general artefacting of the sensor in lower light situations.
- the two features that made me opt for the 6 instead of the 7 were not worth it. The apps are far and few between, clunky and fiddly to access. The app idea on cameras has merit but this is poorly implemented here. WIFI integration and real time upload to local PC is similarly poorly implemented at the moment

I'll give you a five star rating for that.

"I BOUGHT A HAMMER AND FOUND IT WAS USELESS FOR CUTTING BREAD, THEREFORE IT IS RUBBISH - WHY DO YOU PEOPLE LIKE HAMMERS?!"

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wayfarers
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Re: Disappointing (the review is!)
In reply to zink, Jun 16, 2013

...maybe people who concentrate on the message, not the messenger, and not on on "how many posts he/she has on this forum"?

zink wrote:

...

BTW, what kind of people rate this "review" with thumbs up?

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adymitruk
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Re: Disappointing
In reply to GXRuser, Jun 16, 2013

For an alternative to a Leica M, the Ricoh GXR with M Mount module or a Sony Nex 6 yields great quality. IF lenses shorter than 40mm are to be used, the Nex 7 should be avoided (unless you are willing to shoot RAW and use corner fix in post processing).

I don't have any corner issues with my 19mm lens on the NEX 7.. What's this about all lenses under 40mm?

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GXRuser
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Re: Disappointing
In reply to adymitruk, Jun 16, 2013

adymitruk wrote:

For an alternative to a Leica M, the Ricoh GXR with M Mount module or a Sony Nex 6 yields great quality. IF lenses shorter than 40mm are to be used, the Nex 7 should be avoided (unless you are willing to shoot RAW and use corner fix in post processing).

I don't have any corner issues with my 19mm lens on the NEX 7.. What's this about all lenses under 40mm?

The sigma 19mm is a retrofocus design.

Most Leica Mount wide angle lenses including Zeiss, and Voigtlander have a symetrical design. All of these lenses have a magenta color shift in the corners of the Nex-7. The Nex-5n and 6 do not display this. The GXR M mount does not due to microlenses incorporated in the sensor assembly. The Leica M9 does not display this due to in-camera corrections.

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temama
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What a troll-like, BS review !! ;) NT
In reply to mfromsoaks, Jun 16, 2013
No text.
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