hands-on review of the D7100

Started Mar 15, 2013 | Discussions
tamasine
Forum MemberPosts: 56
Like?
Re:great stuff...
In reply to creaDVty, Mar 16, 2013

Hi Mic

Thank you for taking the time to do the review  - it is really helpful to me as I'm undecided between the D7100 and D600.

What would be really useful is if you could do a comparison between the D600 and D7100 in terms of high ISO performance in low light, and also DR comparisons.

Thank you!

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
rhlpetrus
Forum ProPosts: 23,471Gear list
Like?
Resolution and AF Re: Very good hands-on review of the D7100
In reply to photoreddi, Mar 16, 2013

photoreddi wrote:

rhlpetrus wrote:

...

AF: that may be the most relevant aspect of this new camera. Have you tested the various points. Since its sensor is denser than the D800's and I have seen some problems with PDAF for extreme lateral points (mostly the leftmost AF point), I wonder if you have checked that.

If there are problems with PDAF at the extreme lateral AF point, that shouldn't have anything to do with the sensor density since the AF sensors are located off-sensor, below the mirror box IIRC. No?

Thanks for the good job, rather fast!

Yes, excellent job. If Thom Hogan needs to hire another assistant ...

YOu forget that people check AF accuracy at full res. The D7100's full res is 50% higher (pixels per unit area) than the D800's. What was ok at 12MP (D700) seems not to be ok at 36MP, the D7100's sensor density at FF would provide 54MP worth of pixels.

-- hide signature --

Renato. http://www.flickr.com/photos/rhlpedrosa/ OnExposure member http://www.onexposure.net/ Good shooting and good luck (after Ed Murrow)

 rhlpetrus's gear list:rhlpetrus's gear list
Nikon 1 V1 Nikon D7000 Nikon 1 Nikkor 10mm f/2.8 Nikon AF Nikkor 35mm f/2D Nikon AF-S Nikkor 70-300mm f/4.5-5.6G VR +3 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
photoreddi
Senior MemberPosts: 4,527
Like?
Re: Resolution and AF Re: Very good hands-on review of the D7100
In reply to rhlpetrus, Mar 16, 2013

rhlpetrus wrote:

photoreddi wrote:

rhlpetrus wrote:

...

AF: that may be the most relevant aspect of this new camera. Have you tested the various points. Since its sensor is denser than the D800's and I have seen some problems with PDAF for extreme lateral points (mostly the leftmost AF point), I wonder if you have checked that.

If there are problems with PDAF at the extreme lateral AF point, that shouldn't have anything to do with the sensor density since the AF sensors are located off-sensor, below the mirror box IIRC. No?

Thanks for the good job, rather fast!

Yes, excellent job. If Thom Hogan needs to hire another assistant ...

YOu forget that people check AF accuracy at full res. The D7100's full res is 50% higher (pixels per unit area) than the D800's. What was ok at 12MP (D700) seems not to be ok at 36MP, the D7100's sensor density at FF would provide 54MP worth of pixels.

No, I've long been aware of the D7100's higher pixel density and have cautioned others to be aware of this when they're pixel peeping. But the AF sensors won't perform any better or any worse no matter what the sensor is that's in the camera or what its pixel pitch is because by design PD AF is not intended to produce perfect focus. This may have been acceptable with older, lower resolution sensors but with cameras like the D800 and D7100, for the best AF accuracy Live View's CD AF should be used.

The problem that you're referring to ("mostly the leftmost AF point") is due to Nikon's imperfect alignment/calibration procedures which has supposedly been corrected at this point. It would be good to check for this, but most D800 owners wouldn't have an AF problem, at least those that mainly use the center AF sensors. If the D800s with the left AF sensor issues could magically have the sensors replaced with the D700's 12mp sensors, the AF issue would remain the same as before, but it would be much harder to detect due to the lower resolution of the sensor. But you're already aware of this and I've posted several times (last year) the amount of megapixels that an FF sensor with the same pixel pitch of some of the other 20mp and 24mp cameras (such as the NEX7) would have.

Speaking of forgetting, you recently replied to one of my posts, trying to correct me, saying that when I wrote that the 18.5mm 1-Series lens had an f/1.8 aperture, that I was mistaken, that it had a maximum aperture of only f/2.8. I owned that f/1.8 lens and my reply to you included a photo of it and IIRC, a link to it on B&H's website. Did you not see that reply, or did you just forget to acknowledge your error?

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
sssesq
Senior MemberPosts: 1,041Gear list
Like?
Re: Resolution and AF Re: Very good hands-on review of the D7100
In reply to photoreddi, Mar 16, 2013

Hi, I'm usually on the FX forum so, Hi All.  Has anyone considered the implications of not having any AA filter might have on sensor cleaning.  I have had to clean both my d700 and d800's sensor on occasion.  Without any AA filer is there a chance of doing some real damage while cleaning the sensor?  I think that the d800e has the filter, but it has been 'nullified' in some way.  Please provide a link to the site that discusses both the d800e cleaning and how to clean the d7100. (I'm considering the d7100 as a replacement for the d700).  Thanks

 sssesq's gear list:sssesq's gear list
Nikon D750 Nikon AF-S Nikkor 24-70mm f/2.8G ED Nikon AF-S Teleconverter TC-17E II Nikon AF-S Nikkor 300mm f/2.8G ED VR II Nikon AF-S Nikkor 70-200mm f/2.8G ED VR II +3 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
scokill
Senior MemberPosts: 1,726Gear list
Like?
Re: Resolution and AF Re: Very good hands-on review of the D7100
In reply to sssesq, Mar 16, 2013

There is still an IR filter from what I understand.  There isn't a bare sensor with no protection regardless.  I don't think there is any more risk cleaning sensor without an AA filter than with.

 scokill's gear list:scokill's gear list
Nikon D610 Nikon Df Nikon AF-S Nikkor 70-200mm f/2.8G ED VR II Nikon AF-S DX Nikkor 16-85mm f/3.5-5.6G ED VR Nikon AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.8D +1 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
sssesq
Senior MemberPosts: 1,041Gear list
Like?
Re: Resolution and AF Re: Very good hands-on review of the D7100
In reply to scokill, Mar 16, 2013

Thanks...

 sssesq's gear list:sssesq's gear list
Nikon D750 Nikon AF-S Nikkor 24-70mm f/2.8G ED Nikon AF-S Teleconverter TC-17E II Nikon AF-S Nikkor 300mm f/2.8G ED VR II Nikon AF-S Nikkor 70-200mm f/2.8G ED VR II +3 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Craig 66
Junior MemberPosts: 40Gear list
Like?
Re: hands-on review of the D7100
In reply to Elixir, Mar 16, 2013

Several of the posters have mentioned that they have both the D7100 and the D600 and I was wondering what they plan on using each one for. Like some of the others I am on the fence  about which one to get. The price point and extra features of the D7100 meets all my needs but the larger sensor of the D600 tugs at my heart strings.

Thanks,

Craig66

 Craig 66's gear list:Craig 66's gear list
Nikon D750 Nikon AF-S Nikkor 24-120mm f/4G ED VR Nikon AF-Nikkor 80-200mm f/2.8D ED
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
creaDVty
Contributing MemberPosts: 621Gear list
Like?
Re:great stuff...
In reply to tamasine, Mar 16, 2013

Ok will do. I can do this by tonight

 creaDVty's gear list:creaDVty's gear list
Panasonic Lumix DMC-LX5 Fujifilm FinePix F31fd Fujifilm FinePix Real 3D W3 Olympus Stylus 1 Fujifilm FinePix S5 Pro +10 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
teodorian2
Senior MemberPosts: 1,860
Like?
Re: hands-on review of the D7100
In reply to Jack Hogan, Mar 16, 2013

Jack Hogan wrote:

Rich Dykmans wrote:


These were shot 5 stops underexposed at ISO100 on the D7100 and D600 for comparison purposes. I'm happy with ISO3200 /6400 at normal exposure, clean enough for me.

Very sharp. Pity about the banding, though. It can be clearly seen at +2EV on a monitor with an 8 stop contrast ratio. Just knowing it's there would bug me to no end. BIG faux pas unless fixed, imho...

That small amount of banding after 5 stops of shadow pushing is very easy to correct (the original to the left and the corrected image at the right):





Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Stuntflyer
Regular MemberPosts: 116
Like?
Re:great stuff...
In reply to creaDVty, Mar 16, 2013

I realize that there might not be a substitute for full frame with regard to low light shooting and higher ISO capability when compared to cameras like the D7000. Wanting to upgrade my D5100, I would be willing to give up a little if the D7100 were able to narrow the playing field enough. I am hoping that you will shed some light on this subject and put this into perspective when comparing the D7100 to the D600. Mike

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Stuntflyer
Regular MemberPosts: 116
Like?
Re: hands-on review of the D7100
In reply to teodorian2, Mar 16, 2013

Would be interested as to what method you used to correct for the banding. Nicely done!

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
lock
Veteran MemberPosts: 5,887
Like?
+1
In reply to Stuntflyer, Mar 16, 2013

Tell us how you did it!

lock

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Jack Hogan
Veteran MemberPosts: 4,000Gear list
Like?
Re: hands-on review of the D7100
In reply to teodorian2, Mar 16, 2013

Good job, teodorian2.  Still...

Jack
PS Topaz Denoise?

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Gar Ber
Regular MemberPosts: 115
Like?
Re: How much shadow lifting on sunflower picture ? (banding)
In reply to creaDVty, Mar 16, 2013

Looking forward to see your observations. Is there any way you would be willing to make the original NEF available of this particular picture (or maybe a good TIFF) ? I did some numerical analysis of the area I mentioned, but I can't really say if the results tell more about the picture coming out of the camera or about the compression algorithm...they do point in the direction though that the data/picture shows a repeating "row oriented" noise pattern with period of about ~ 4 pixels.

I'm far from being an expert in this area so I wont make any further conclusions, but at least this tells me I'm not imagining seeing the patterns/rows in the picture.

Selection in the original image where noise pattern was noticed (visible elsewhere too). REDUCED SIZE

Sub selection on which analysis was done. REDUCED SIZE

Per-row - per channel average. 288 rows in the selection starting from the top (row 0) going down (row 288).

PS: I don't know if I'm allowed to post the original picture (albeit reduced) here, so let me know and I'll remove it promptly if necessary.

To anyone else interested:

All the pictured in this post are reduced in size, so look in previous posts for links to the original image.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Robert Morris
Contributing MemberPosts: 761Gear list
Like?
Thank You, Thank You Very Much. n/t.
In reply to creaDVty, Mar 16, 2013
-- hide signature --

RM

 Robert Morris's gear list:Robert Morris's gear list
Olympus XZ-1 Panasonic Lumix DMC-FZ1000 Sony RX100 II Panasonic Lumix DMC-LX100 Nikon D90 +34 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
pierrestz
New MemberPosts: 19Gear list
Like?
Re: How much shadow lifting on sunflower picture ? (banding)
In reply to Gar Ber, Mar 16, 2013

I can't see banding in this picture, should i calibrate my screen, or ?

 pierrestz's gear list:pierrestz's gear list
Nikon D7000 Tokina AT-X Pro 11-16mm f/2.8 DX Nikon AF-S DX Nikkor 18-105mm f/3.5-5.6G ED VR Nikon AF-S DX Nikkor 35mm f/1.8G Nikon AF-S DX Nikkor 55-200mm f/4-5.6G VR
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Gar Ber
Regular MemberPosts: 115
Like?
Re: How much shadow lifting on sunflower picture ? (banding)
In reply to pierrestz, Mar 16, 2013

I don't know if your monitor calibration has anything to do with it, maybe it has more to do with what you would consider "banding".

There is some measurable noise patterning going on, but you have to look at the original file from flickr here (sized 6000x4000) in the area that I indicated (it's also in other areas though).

Anyway it's low in magnitude, so given the fact that you can't see it it would probably mean that it would be of no consequence to you. I often work with high dynamic range pictures, where I need to lift shadows substantially (~ +2EV maybe +3EV at max) ... so I'm trying to find precisely from the OP the condition of this particular picture in its original form...before flickr does its thing possibly even before jpeg compression does its thing...and optimally even without ADL.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
creaDVty
Contributing MemberPosts: 621Gear list
Like?
Re: How much shadow lifting on sunflower picture ? (banding)
In reply to Gar Ber, Mar 16, 2013

PM me your email address.  I can send you the DNG file.

On my calibrated laptop screen I don't see banding but if I raise the exposure then yes there is some banding visible at 1:1.  I tried to remove it with Denoise but haven't found a setting that works very well.  I will post a sample with NR applied in LR4 as soon as I finish these chores for my wife

-- hide signature --

www.BetterFamilyPhotos.com
TTL Flash Tutorial and over 400+ other articles for taking better candid and family photos.
http://betterfamilyphotos.blogspot.com/p/better-family-photos-index.html

 creaDVty's gear list:creaDVty's gear list
Panasonic Lumix DMC-LX5 Fujifilm FinePix F31fd Fujifilm FinePix Real 3D W3 Olympus Stylus 1 Fujifilm FinePix S5 Pro +10 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
creaDVty
Contributing MemberPosts: 621Gear list
Like?
edited version
In reply to creaDVty, Mar 17, 2013

Here is an edited version of the sunflower shot (full res version available)

http://www.flickr.com/photos/93500598@N02/8563586275/sizes/l/in/photostream/

Imported into LR4 using the D5200 trick .

Settings:

exposure +1.72

highlights -34

shadows +20

whites +26

sharpening +50

noise - luminance +25

added vignetting, grad filter burning, etc. etc.

exported as jpeg with 80% quality

On my small 14" laptop screen, if I view the middle sunflower 1:1 there seems to be a very slight appearance of vertical lines in some areas of the middle of the sunflower.  Not sure if this is due to the absence of AA filter.

-- hide signature --

www.BetterFamilyPhotos.com
TTL Flash Tutorial and over 400+ other articles for taking better candid and family photos.
http://betterfamilyphotos.blogspot.com/p/better-family-photos-index.html

 creaDVty's gear list:creaDVty's gear list
Panasonic Lumix DMC-LX5 Fujifilm FinePix F31fd Fujifilm FinePix Real 3D W3 Olympus Stylus 1 Fujifilm FinePix S5 Pro +10 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
creaDVty
Contributing MemberPosts: 621Gear list
Like?
Video for you
In reply to mf999, Mar 17, 2013

Here it is
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lx259abTPhg&sns=em

I used fine, large, optimal quality jpeg.
Sandisk extreme 45mbps

Best regards,
Mic

 creaDVty's gear list:creaDVty's gear list
Panasonic Lumix DMC-LX5 Fujifilm FinePix F31fd Fujifilm FinePix Real 3D W3 Olympus Stylus 1 Fujifilm FinePix S5 Pro +10 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Keyboard shortcuts:
FForum MMy threads