So... I finally come to a decision to go with the OM-D... Is there any big hand users out there?

Started Mar 13, 2013 | Questions
texinwien
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In reply to texinwien, Mar 14, 2013

texinwien wrote:

scott_mcleod wrote:

texinwien wrote:

scott_mcleod wrote:

Some of what you are seeing in the superiority of the Oly is an artifact of the E-M5 under-rating its ISO by about a full stop across the range (i.e. ISO 1600 on the camera is actually only 782)

Hi Scott, that's an oft-repeated mantra, but it is a misconception - one that DPReview have been very specific in countering - I will include some links to official DPReview statements at the end of this post.

The ISO 12232:2006 standard (Exposure Index Standard) only applies to the sRGB output of a camera (practically, the out of camera JPEGs). It says nothing about the RAW files, and the 'under-rating' you mention here is only seen in the RAW files. As such, that 'under-rating' is allowed by the ISO standard. Meaning, in effect, that it's not an under-rating at all.

The E-M5 is standards-compliant in regards to ISO 12232:2006.

http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/Cameras/Compare-Camera-Sensors/Compare-cameras-side-by-side/(appareil1)/842%7C0/(brand)/Panasonic/(appareil2)/816%7C0/(brand2)/Panasonic/(appareil3)/793%7C0/(brand3)/Olympus

While the DxO 'Measured ISO' numbers are very helpful for photographers and consumers who take the time to understand what they mean, they have nothing to do with actual ISO, as defined by the one and only standard that counts. DPReview has also been specific in stating that it's improper to mix the DxO numbers up with actual ISO numbers.

It gets worse as you go higher. This is why it looks so clean compared to the competition at any "equivalent" ISO. The GH2 also under-rates but not nearly as much. The lowly G5 is very close to spec.

This is also a commonly-held misconception, but it is also incorrect (and has also been directly addressed and contradicted by DPReview employees).

I suggest that you read the following statements from Andy Westlake (Technical Writer at DPReview), who took the time to explain some details about DPReview's testing regime and ISO, with the E-M5 tests and measurements as the original grounds for the discussions that were started.

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/post/40933688

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/post/40944061

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/post/40947308

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/post/40947640

This DPReview article on ISO may also help to clear up any lingering misconceptions you might still have.

///

To the OP: Scott's explanation for the E-M5's apparent superiority is technically incorrect, which fact is backed up by official statements from DPReview employees. The superiority you are seeing is actual, and cannot be explained away by any supposed 'tricks' performed by Olympus (Olympus has performed no tricks w/r/t ISO, as a matter of fact, according to the ISO standard), although many try to do exactly that, anyway.

Regarding the feel of the E-M5: My hands are average size. I use the camera without a grip and am very comfortable with it. I also like the fact that there are multiple grips from different makers available, and that, even if I decide to buy a grip at some time, I can always remove it if I want to go back to a very small camera that, with a pancake affixed, will easily fit in a jacket pocket.

Good luck finding a camera that works for you - the E-M5 and GH3 are both excellent choices, IMO!

tex

My only "lingering misconception" is that if you need to set ISO 200 on an E-M5 to get the same exposure as you would from (say) a D800 at ISO 100 with aperture and shutter speed held constant (I am using for this example the RAW files from IR, who used f/8 and 1/20s on these respective cameras), isn't "ISO performance" a rather worthless metric if taken at face value?

This is covered clearly in the second link I provided above. The relative excerpt (with my emphasis added) is here:

We test ISO, essentially according to the SOS method, and present the results in every review. All of our further tests are implicitly based upon that, because they're exposed so particular reference grey patches are rendered at a standard brightness. You do need to pay attention to those ISO test results when comparing cameras.

With all due respect to everyone involved, I am not trying to bait anyone or start an argument - it just strikes me that the various IQ comparison widgets might be more useful if each crop clearly stated the +ve or -ve EV required at each ISO without having to download the file and look at the EXIF (something that may not occur to everyone as necessary to fully understand what they're looking at)

My interpretation of the above-linked statement by Andy Westlake is that the information you are seeking is contained in the results of DPReview's own ISO test results, which they do publish for each camera.

It may be helpful to note here that the 'SOS method' Andy Westlake mentioned in the excerpt I quoted above is one of the two new (specified in ISO 12322:2006) techniques manufacturers can choose from for determining the Exposure Index rating of a camera model.

The interesting thing is that, as specified, the 'SOS method' allows for plus or minus 1/3 EV variance from an ideal measure. According to DPReview, the E-M5 falls within the specified, allowed, legal, plus or minus 1/3 EV variance from the ideal measure, and is thus compliant with ISO 12322:2006.

Reminder: The 'SOS method' as specified by ISO 12322:2006 applies only to sRGB camera output - practically, the out-of-camera JPEGs.

tex

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texinwien
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In reply to scott_mcleod, Mar 14, 2013

scott_mcleod wrote:

My only "lingering misconception" is that if you need to set ISO 200 on an E-M5 to get the same exposure as you would from (say) a D800 at ISO 100 with aperture and shutter speed held constant (I am using for this example the RAW files from IR, who used f/8 and 1/20s on these respective cameras), isn't "ISO performance" a rather worthless metric if taken at face value?

My sincere apologies here, Scott - I'm not trying to inundate you with responses, but I would like to follow up on this part of your reply.

Are you implying that one would "need to set ISO 200 on an E-M5 to get the same exposure as you would from (say) a D800 at ISO 100"?

I had a look at the D800 and E-M5 RAWs at IR and didn't see any evidence in them that suggests one would, indeed, need to do that. Perhaps you could clarify your intention here or else offer links to the specific files you have in mind that would illustrate the need to do this.

Thanks!

tex

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NZ Scott
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I tried the E-M5 and it was a pig to handle
In reply to Randell Tober, Mar 14, 2013

Randell Tober wrote:

In all the comparables the OM-D wins at least in my opinion, but being I can't handle one prior to purchase I'm a little concerned. I've ran into several mentions to the camera not being for big hands I thought about going with the gh3, but when put up against the OMD...it looks weak to me. I like the 4/3's as well as not having to spend as much on glass- vs SLR. right? Thouhts? Thanks

Hello,

I own an Olympus E-P3 camera and when the OM-D came out I decided to give it a try with a view to upgrading (newer sensor, weather-sealing, viewfinder, IBIS that actually works). So, I went into a store and asked to try one.

It was an absolute pig.

The biggest issue for me was the sharp edges, particularly the ones around the lens mount. They dug into my fingers and annoyed the hell out of me.

I realise that everybody has different-shaped hands and that there are a lot of people out there who are quite comfortable shooting with the camera, but in my view it is absolutely essential that you try it in-hand before purchasing. I would suggest that you go to a camera club or something like that and ask someone to let you handle theirs.

Trying before buying should apply to any camera of course - but particularly to the E-M5 because it has not been designed with ergonomics in mind (unlike a DSLR or G5). Olympus has followed a design conceit by making it look cool at the expense of handling.

Apart from the ergonomics issue, it does seem to be a wonderful camera.

For the record, my hands are larger than average.

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sgoldswo
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GH3 wins (for me) but both are good cameras
In reply to Randell Tober, Mar 14, 2013

Randell Tober wrote:

In all the comparables the OM-D wins at least in my opinion, but being I can't handle one prior to purchase I'm a little concerned. I've ran into several mentions to the camera not being for big hands I thought about going with the gh3, but when put up against the OMD...it looks weak to me. I like the 4/3's as well as not having to spend as much on glass- vs SLR. right? Thouhts? Thanks

I have both the E-M5 and the GH3 (I've previously owned the E-P3, G5 and GX1 and still own an E-PL5 too). As far as I'm concerned the GH3 is the overall winner (IQ, EVF, Ergonomics, video, battery life etc, etc). That's not to say the E-M5 is a terrible camera, but IMO it does come up short measured against the GH3 (it's a year older so that's understandable).

Where the E-M5 does shine is in low light/low shutter speeds with unstabilised lenses. Arguably the small size (the flip out screen is handy though) is also useful for street photography, though I've found the retro design attracts attention. So if social/street photography were your thing go for the E-M5, otherwise the GH3 is more versatile. To the extent you have larger hands and plan to shoot for long periods I would strongly advise you to go for the GH3 - the E-M5 plus grip just doesn't cut it in comparison.

However, the best thing to do here is to get yourself to a shop and try both cameras out in hand.

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sgoldswo
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Re: What's weak about the GH3?
In reply to Randell Tober, Mar 14, 2013

Randell Tober wrote:

Hi,

I know this is an initial test/ preview- but if you look at the Hi-Iso test just completed by DPR, almost anything you put up against the OM-D looks second rate- within reason(IMO). It takes jumping into some of the high dollar dslr's to find comparables so it seems. GH3 isn't totally out of the question- I'll be looking for more examples/info/reviews. As I mentioned, Olympus really has a winner in the OM-D. Hopefully they have a newer release for the future that gives us a bigger option

It's been said on another test but the samples posted by DPR are simply unrepresentative of user experience. If you want to go with that, it's fine, but in all honesty it's identical to better than the E-M5 in real world use.

Because I'm talking about actual use, and not shooting a pointless test scene with a tripod it may simply be that the GH3 is more of a photographers camera (e.g. it allows for greater button/dial based fine tuning of settings to get enhanced results). Nonetheless, I'll take the camera that gives me better results/more keepers at the end of the day.

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Chuck Eklund
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Re: So... I finally come to a decision to go with the OM-D... Is there any big hand users out there?
In reply to Randell Tober, Mar 14, 2013

Randell Tober wrote:

Thanks... You know it makes me wonder if the techs at Olympus are paying any attention to this for future release/models? Surely they can see the need/ opportunity for another model. As I mentioned, I intially started looking at the GH3- but after comparing the samples in the new dpr prereview, it was clear it's not even close in IQ IMO. I'm even looking at Canon dslr's again now- but there goes the $$'s which aren't as plentiful as they use to be for me :o 4/3 glass looks great and from what I see a steal when compared to full size dslr in the cost/quality catagory.

As an owner of the EM5 and GH3 the IQ at all ISOs is so similar that they are indistinguishable. If the dpr previews are significantly different I believe the difference is due to something besides the sensor.

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texinwien
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Re: What's weak about the GH3?
In reply to sgoldswo, Mar 14, 2013

sgoldswo wrote:

Randell Tober wrote:

Hi,

I know this is an initial test/ preview- but if you look at the Hi-Iso test just completed by DPR, almost anything you put up against the OM-D looks second rate- within reason(IMO). It takes jumping into some of the high dollar dslr's to find comparables so it seems. GH3 isn't totally out of the question- I'll be looking for more examples/info/reviews. As I mentioned, Olympus really has a winner in the OM-D. Hopefully they have a newer release for the future that gives us a bigger option

It's been said on another test but the samples posted by DPR are simply unrepresentative of user experience. If you want to go with that, it's fine, but in all honesty it's identical to better than the E-M5 in real world use.

Lots of things are said about lots of things by lots of people. Then there's science and rigorous testing in controlled environments.

Because I'm talking about actual use, and not shooting a pointless test scene with a tripod it may simply be that the GH3 is more of a photographers camera (e.g. it allows for greater button/dial based fine tuning of settings to get enhanced results).

Do I understand this correctly - You're suggesting that the GH3, with all of its fine-tuning abilities, may take better pictures out and about than it is capable of taking in a studio laboratory, mounted on a tripod? Are you sure you want to make that claim?

Nonetheless, I'll take the camera that gives me better results/more keepers at the end of the day.

Perhaps it gives YOU better results because you get a long with it better, but not due to any inherent, objective advantages it has. Which means that your results may not be transferrable to any other users.

It could also be a case of cognitive bias. I'm looking forward to DPReview's full review. As time passes, some of your original claims are looking less and less supported by the actual facts and tests, as produced by real professionals (as opposed to some guy with a blog and a couple of cameras).

tex

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Uncle Frank
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Re: So... I finally come to a decision to go with the OM-D... Is there any big hand users out there?
In reply to Randell Tober, Mar 14, 2013

I upgraded to an OM-G in November, and sold it in February, solely because of ergonomics.  The buttons were small, mushy (due to the weather proofing), tightly spaced, and two of them were placed in positions where I had to use the tip of a fingernail to depress them.  The camera is a brilliant machine, but it's retro styling never felt comfortable in my hands or handsome to my eyes.  Oly's other 16MP offerings are too tiny, so  I've decided to wait for the rangefinder styled e-p5, which hopefully will be available by mid-year.   In the meantime, I've purchased a gently used e-p3, and though it's about the same size as the OM-D, its layout is better suited to my big hands.  Jmho.

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Re: So... I finally come to a decision to go with the OM-D... Is there any big hand users out there?
In reply to Randell Tober, Mar 14, 2013

I've come to the conclusion that handling, before buying, is mandatory for OM-D.

I am a long time Olympus user, with some good investment in lenses but I passed it on....for a G5 that is a joy to use.

I advise to handle one or to buy from a store with a good return policy.

Best,

Viorel

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texinwien
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Re: E-M5 ergonomics are not great
In reply to Randell Tober, Mar 14, 2013

Randell Tober wrote:

Thanks... Probably won't get to touch one b4 purchasing it due to my rural locale. I still haven't ruled the GH3 out either- although I feel I'm still 80% in favor of just going with the OM-D. I have a hard time going with anything else after looking at all of the data- feedback etc... I've received some feedback claiming that the OM-D is a full stop off from other cameras in the ISO tests- that's why it looks so much better in comparison...

That feedback is technically incorrect and can safely be ignored. DPReview has made it clear that this is not the case. Anyone who makes this claim is mistaken.

I'm thus far not too sure what to think about that. I'm hoping the full test on the GH3 comes out fairly soon. I'm thinking about buying glass first and then the camera... Hoping to get a little more info- news and maybe run into a price point as well Enjoying all of the feedback and reading. Thanks to all!! :?)

tex

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Re: So... I finally come to a decision to go with the OM-D... Is there any big hand users out there?
In reply to Uncle Frank, Mar 14, 2013

Thanks... Makes me wonder if I should consider doing the same... Buying a used EP3 and start purchasing glass until a newer release is in the works. Might be the best of ideas... Kick it around a bit.

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Re: E-M5 ergonomics are not great
In reply to texinwien, Mar 15, 2013

texinwien wrote:

Randell Tober wrote:

Thanks... Probably won't get to touch one b4 purchasing it due to my rural locale. I still haven't ruled the GH3 out either- although I feel I'm still 80% in favor of just going with the OM-D. I have a hard time going with anything else after looking at all of the data- feedback etc... I've received some feedback claiming that the OM-D is a full stop off from other cameras in the ISO tests- that's why it looks so much better in comparison...

That feedback is technically incorrect and can safely be ignored. DPReview has made it clear that this is not the case. Anyone who makes this claim is mistaken.

This is debatable at best.

I've read the links that you provided earlier in this thread and Dpreview's stance on this matter applies only to jpegs. If you shoot RAW then you will find that the E-M5 is one stop worse than it should be.

I'm thus far not too sure what to think about that. I'm hoping the full test on the GH3 comes out fairly soon. I'm thinking about buying glass first and then the camera... Hoping to get a little more info- news and maybe run into a price point as well Enjoying all of the feedback and reading. Thanks to all!! :?)

tex

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sgoldswo
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Re: What's weak about the GH3?
In reply to texinwien, Mar 15, 2013

texinwien wrote:

sgoldswo wrote:

Randell Tober wrote:

Hi,

I know this is an initial test/ preview- but if you look at the Hi-Iso test just completed by DPR, almost anything you put up against the OM-D looks second rate- within reason(IMO). It takes jumping into some of the high dollar dslr's to find comparables so it seems. GH3 isn't totally out of the question- I'll be looking for more examples/info/reviews. As I mentioned, Olympus really has a winner in the OM-D. Hopefully they have a newer release for the future that gives us a bigger option

It's been said on another test but the samples posted by DPR are simply unrepresentative of user experience. If you want to go with that, it's fine, but in all honesty it's identical to better than the E-M5 in real world use.

Lots of things are said about lots of things by lots of people. Then there's science and rigorous testing in controlled environments.

Are you so sure putting a camera on a tripod and pointing it at a test scene is the be all and end all of photography? If so I really feel sorry for you.

Because I'm talking about actual use, and not shooting a pointless test scene with a tripod it may simply be that the GH3 is more of a photographers camera (e.g. it allows for greater button/dial based fine tuning of settings to get enhanced results).

Do I understand this correctly - You're suggesting that the GH3, with all of its fine-tuning abilities, may take better pictures out and about than it is capable of taking in a studio laboratory, mounted on a tripod? Are you sure you want to make that claim?

Are you sure studio comparison really shows that much of cameras abilities? If so you are a duller chap than you seem from your (repetitive) comments.

Nonetheless, I'll take the camera that gives me better results/more keepers at the end of the day.

Perhaps it gives YOU better results because you get a long with it better, but not due to any inherent, objective advantages it has. Which means that your results may not be transferrable to any other users.

and then again perhaps it would be transferable which is why I'm telling other people...

It could also be a case of cognitive bias.

agreed. You've demonstrated plenty.

I'm looking forward to DPReview's full review. As time passes, some of your original claims are looking less and less supported by the actual facts and tests, as produced by real professionals (as opposed to some guy with a blog and a couple of cameras).

LOL. I bow down to your well demonstrated professional.. I mean cod science. Do you take lessons to be smug and patronising or is that just your style?

It really gets you upset that I own both cameras and don't prefer the one you own doesn't it? That's funny - did no one explain to you it's perfectly fine for you to like one camera and someone to like another?

tex

Cheers

Simon

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texinwien
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Re: A very interesting answer
In reply to texinwien, Mar 15, 2013

texinwien wrote:

scott_mcleod wrote:

My only "lingering misconception" is that if you need to set ISO 200 on an E-M5 to get the same exposure as you would from (say) a D800 at ISO 100 with aperture and shutter speed held constant (I am using for this example the RAW files from IR, who used f/8 and 1/20s on these respective cameras), isn't "ISO performance" a rather worthless metric if taken at face value?

My sincere apologies here, Scott - I'm not trying to inundate you with responses, but I would like to follow up on this part of your reply.

Are you implying that one would "need to set ISO 200 on an E-M5 to get the same exposure as you would from (say) a D800 at ISO 100"?

I had a look at the D800 and E-M5 RAWs at IR and didn't see any evidence in them that suggests one would, indeed, need to do that. Perhaps you could clarify your intention here or else offer links to the specific files you have in mind that would illustrate the need to do this.

Thanks!

tex

I looked closer and found the images you were referring to, I believe. The short story - IR's reference lens for Nikons (a Sigma 70mm f2.8) has a known problem at f8 in combination with several Nikon bodies, including the D800. That lens, when set to f8 on the D800 (as well as a few other Nikons) is open wider than the EXIF shows, meaning that actual exposure is significantly understated in these circumstances. This is mentioned with some degree of detail in IR's D800 review - scroll to the 'sensor' section, to the second paragraph under the bank of 4 pictures.

This confounding factor is discussed in more detail in this DPReview discussion.

Furthermore, if we compare IR studio shots taken at other f-numbers, we see the apparent discrepancy all but disappear.

In short, the EXIFs are lying to us, and one WOULD NOT "need to set ISO 200 on an E-M5 to get the same exposure as you would from (say) a D800 at ISO 100".

I hope this clears up your last remaining misconception to your satisfaction. Please let me know if you have any other questions!

tex

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Re: E-M5 ergonomics are not great
In reply to NZ Scott, Mar 15, 2013

NZ Scott wrote:

texinwien wrote:

Randell Tober wrote:

Thanks... Probably won't get to touch one b4 purchasing it due to my rural locale. I still haven't ruled the GH3 out either- although I feel I'm still 80% in favor of just going with the OM-D. I have a hard time going with anything else after looking at all of the data- feedback etc... I've received some feedback claiming that the OM-D is a full stop off from other cameras in the ISO tests- that's why it looks so much better in comparison...

That feedback is technically incorrect and can safely be ignored. DPReview has made it clear that this is not the case. Anyone who makes this claim is mistaken.

This is debatable at best.

I've read the links that you provided earlier in this thread and Dpreview's stance on this matter applies only to jpegs. If you shoot RAW then you will find that the E-M5 is one stop worse than it should be.

Could you please spell out precisely what you mean when you say the E-M5 is one stop worse than it should be.

"Should be" according to what standard?

One stop worse with regard to what?

I'm thus far not too sure what to think about that. I'm hoping the full test on the GH3 comes out fairly soon. I'm thinking about buying glass first and then the camera... Hoping to get a little more info- news and maybe run into a price point as well Enjoying all of the feedback and reading. Thanks to all!! :?)

tex

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idiotekniQues
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Re: So... I finally come to a decision to go with the OM-D... Is there any big hand users out there?
In reply to Randell Tober, Mar 15, 2013

ill tell you one thing about the E-M5, i haven't gotten a 2nd body yet but i'm planning on it in May for a trip.

i've been fiddling around with my bag to figure out how i can configure it with everything i need for a trip overseas this summer. it's going to be tight but...

i made a slot for a backup body, took my om-d and put the body cap on and tested it.

i can't believe how small this camera is and the tiny space it's going to fit into in my bag. considering how it produces what it does as a camera.

it's insane.

like i said earlier it may come instantly, it may take some adjusting or you may never like the ergonomics. maybe it depends on how old we are, how attached we are to muscle memory in our brains - the GH3 replicates a dslr feel. if you come from a dslr, we know what's going to feel better at first for sure. and maybe ever.

anyway, it took me a few months to be instinctive with it after 4 years with canon dslrs - i can now change all my important settings without every taking my eye off of the EVF much if at all.

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You may want to look at the image samples just posted...
In reply to Randell Tober, Mar 15, 2013

The DPR actual image sample gallery is up, and I think it is a much better representation of what the camera can do than their studio shots.

http://www.dpreview.com/galleries/reviewsamples/albums/panasonic-lumix-dmc-gh3-preview-samples

This is much more like what I have been seeing when I use my GH3 in the real world....

-J

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texinwien
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Re: What's weak about the GH3?
In reply to sgoldswo, Mar 15, 2013

sgoldswo wrote:

texinwien wrote:

sgoldswo wrote:

Randell Tober wrote:

Hi,

I know this is an initial test/ preview- but if you look at the Hi-Iso test just completed by DPR, almost anything you put up against the OM-D looks second rate- within reason(IMO). It takes jumping into some of the high dollar dslr's to find comparables so it seems. GH3 isn't totally out of the question- I'll be looking for more examples/info/reviews. As I mentioned, Olympus really has a winner in the OM-D. Hopefully they have a newer release for the future that gives us a bigger option

It's been said on another test but the samples posted by DPR are simply unrepresentative of user experience. If you want to go with that, it's fine, but in all honesty it's identical to better than the E-M5 in real world use.

Lots of things are said about lots of things by lots of people. Then there's science and rigorous testing in controlled environments.

Are you so sure putting a camera on a tripod and pointing it at a test scene is the be all and end all of photography? If so I really feel sorry for you.

Thanks for your sympathy, but it is misguided. I've taken more than 13,000 photos with my E-M5, none pointing at test scenes. I do, however, value scientific comparison in controlled environments over dubious firsthand reports from bloggers whose qualifications likely exist only in their own minds. Especially when said bloggers eschew the value of studio tests performed by trained professionals.

Because I'm talking about actual use, and not shooting a pointless test scene with a tripod it may simply be that the GH3 is more of a photographers camera (e.g. it allows for greater button/dial based fine tuning of settings to get enhanced results).

Do I understand this correctly - You're suggesting that the GH3, with all of its fine-tuning abilities, may take better pictures out and about than it is capable of taking in a studio laboratory, mounted on a tripod? Are you sure you want to make that claim?

Are you sure studio comparison really shows that much of cameras abilities?

Studio comparisons performed in controlled conditions by trained professionals in a consistent manner tell us with some degree of authority quite à lot about different cameras' capabilities.

If so you are a duller chap than you seem from your (repetitive) comments.

Says the gentleman who has nothing but ad hominem left in his playbook. Classy.

Nonetheless, I'll take the camera that gives me better results/more keepers at the end of the day.

Perhaps it gives YOU better results because you get a long with it better, but not due to any inherent, objective advantages it has. Which means that your results may not be transferrable to any other users.

and then again perhaps it would be transferable which is why I'm telling other people...

Perhaps, whereas results of studio tests should tell us some objective measures about the cameras in question, which objective measures will, with absolute certainty, transfer to all other users.

It could also be a case of cognitive bias.

agreed. You've demonstrated plenty.

Feel free to provide examples. I won't hold my breath

I'm looking forward to DPReview's full review. As time passes, some of your original claims are looking less and less supported by the actual facts and tests, as produced by real professionals (as opposed to some guy with a blog and a couple of cameras).

LOL. I bow down to your well demonstrated professional.. I mean cod science. Do you take lessons to be smug and patronising or is that just your style?

I don't have much patience for self proclaimed experts who discount the results of controlled tests performed by professionals, apologies.

It really gets you upset that I own both cameras and don't prefer the one you own doesn't it? That's funny - did no one explain to you it's perfectly fine for you to like one camera and someone to like another?

I don't care how many cameras you own, or which ones are your personal favorites. I do care if you're making demonstrably false statements or claiming that your personal experience has more validity than the results of multiple tests performed by highly trained professionalsm no matter which camera is your personal favorite.

Cheers

Simon

tex

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Anders W
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Re: What's weak about the GH3?
In reply to sgoldswo, Mar 15, 2013

sgoldswo wrote:

Randell Tober wrote:

Hi,

I know this is an initial test/ preview- but if you look at the Hi-Iso test just completed by DPR, almost anything you put up against the OM-D looks second rate- within reason(IMO). It takes jumping into some of the high dollar dslr's to find comparables so it seems. GH3 isn't totally out of the question- I'll be looking for more examples/info/reviews. As I mentioned, Olympus really has a winner in the OM-D. Hopefully they have a newer release for the future that gives us a bigger option

It's been said on another test but the samples posted by DPR are simply unrepresentative of user experience. If you want to go with that, it's fine, but in all honesty it's identical to better than the E-M5 in real world use.

Because I'm talking about actual use, and not shooting a pointless test scene with a tripod it may simply be that the GH3 is more of a photographers camera (e.g. it allows for greater button/dial based fine tuning of settings to get enhanced results). Nonetheless, I'll take the camera that gives me better results/more keepers at the end of the day.

First, are you saying that DPR has made some kind of mistake specifically when shooting or processing the GH3 samples? If so, what mistake would that be?

Second, are you saying that the DPR studio scene is useless for judging the image quality of a camera? If so, for what specific reasons would that be?

Finally, are you saying that the GH3 allows for greater button/dial based fine tuning of settings that affect image quality than for example the E-M5? If so, what would those settings be?

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sgoldswo
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Re: What's weak about the GH3?
In reply to texinwien, Mar 15, 2013

texinwien wrote:

It really gets you upset that I own both cameras and don't prefer the one you own doesn't it? That's funny - did no one explain to you it's perfectly fine for you to like one camera and someone to like another?

I don't care how many cameras you own, or which ones are your personal favorites.

Cool, for the record I own an M9, an X-pro1, and X100, an X-E1, a GH3, an E-M5 an E-PL5 and a GX1(IR), whoops, nearly forgot the Contax G2. Oh and occasionally my OH lets me use her RX100. I used to own an E-P3, X10, A100, A700, A900, A55, A77. NEX-5, NEX-5N and NEX-7. I've spent a good bit of time using a 5D II as well (not mine though). Cheers for asking, you are welcome.

I do care if you're making demonstrably false statements

What are those then? and why is it you take so long writing replies to me old son?

or claiming that your personal experience has more validity than the results of multiple tests

What a joke - no I claim my experience and that of others who actually use cameras is more valid than pointing a camera at a pointless test scene. Thanks 

performed by highly trained professionalsm no matter which camera is your personal favorite.

tex

Thanks tex, I love you too 

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