Resolution test, between crop (18MP) and fullframe (12.8MP)

Started Mar 12, 2013 | Discussions
nedelcho
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Resolution test, between crop (18MP) and fullframe (12.8MP)
Mar 12, 2013

I've read here several times allready, that crop cameras has much lower resolution, than even the old 5D, even with a very good lens. So I grow tired of such claims without any backup (except from the questionable DXO site) and decided to test this for myself. Unfortunately the weather here is so so now, so I've tested in the city (not a landscape) and the weather is changing so fast, that in the seconds which cost me to change bodies the sun went behind clouds. Even so, here are the pics, to judge for yourselves. I'll leave my commentary for now and add it later.



Canon EOS 5D + 24-70mm f/2.8L II @ 41mm & f11

Canon EOS 60D + 24-70mm f/2.8L II @ 26mm & f8

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Limburger
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Re: Resolution test, between crop (18MP) and fullframe (12.8MP)
In reply to nedelcho, Mar 12, 2013

nedelcho wrote:

I've read here several times allready, that crop cameras has much lower resolution, than even the old 5D, even with a very good lens. So I grow tired of such claims without any backup (except from the questionable DXO site) and decided to test this for myself. Unfortunately the weather here is so so now, so I've tested in the city (not a landscape) and the weather is changing so fast, that in the seconds which cost me to change bodies the sun went behind clouds. Even so, here are the pics, to judge for yourselves. I'll leave my commentary for now and add it later.



Canon EOS 5D + 24-70mm f/2.8L II @ 41mm & f11

Canon EOS 60D + 24-70mm f/2.8L II @ 26mm & f8

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I think the 60D does a good job.

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Cheers Mike

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FoolyCooly
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Re: Resolution test, between crop (18MP) and fullframe (12.8MP)
In reply to nedelcho, Mar 12, 2013

The first image with the better lighting looks more detailed to my eye. Shame you could not shoot both frames under the same conditions.

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brian1366
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Re: Resolution test, between crop (18MP) and fullframe (12.8MP)
In reply to FoolyCooly, Mar 12, 2013

FoolyCooly wrote:

The first image with the better lighting looks more detailed to my eye. Shame you could not shoot both frames under the same conditions.

Sorry, I do not see that. You have to look at the 1:1 view. If you look at the small text on bottom of the orange sign in the 60D image you can make out individual letters. On the FF image you cannot.  Also look at the blue circle signs with the red X's. The crop image resolves more detail.  This is as expected when comparing 18MP to the FF crop of 12.8MP.

Thank you to the OP for posting this comparison. The answer is as expected, but its always good to see someone perform an actual experiment.

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FoolyCooly
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Re: Resolution test, between crop (18MP) and fullframe (12.8MP)
In reply to brian1366, Mar 12, 2013

brian1366 wrote:

FoolyCooly wrote:

The first image with the better lighting looks more detailed to my eye. Shame you could not shoot both frames under the same conditions.

Sorry, I do not see that. You have to look at the 1:1 view. If you look at the small text on bottom of the orange sign in the 60D image you can make out individual letters. On the FF image you cannot. Also look at the blue circle signs with the red X's. The crop image resolves more detail. This is as expected when comparing 18MP to the FF crop of 12.8MP.

Thank you to the OP for posting this comparison. The answer is as expected, but its always good to see someone perform an actual experiment.

Good catch. I see a difference now. It's not exactly mind blowing but it's there.

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mattr
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Re: Resolution test, between crop (18MP) and fullframe (12.8MP)
In reply to nedelcho, Mar 12, 2013

Nice demonstration. The 60D has the expected slight resolution advantage.

Only criticism is that the lighting differs (more direct sunlight with the 5D).

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gatorowl
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Re: Resolution test, between crop (18MP) and fullframe (12.8MP)
In reply to nedelcho, Mar 12, 2013

nedelcho wrote:

I've read here several times allready, that crop cameras has much lower resolution, than even the old 5D, even with a very good lens. So I grow tired of such claims without any backup (except from the questionable DXO site) and decided to test this for myself. Unfortunately the weather here is so so now, so I've tested in the city (not a landscape) and the weather is changing so fast, that in the seconds which cost me to change bodies the sun went behind clouds. Even so, here are the pics, to judge for yourselves. I'll leave my commentary for now and add it later.



Canon EOS 5D + 24-70mm f/2.8L II @ 41mm & f11

Canon EOS 60D + 24-70mm f/2.8L II @ 26mm & f8

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Thanks for the effort, but it strikes me that you are making a straw dog argument.  I don't know anyone who claims a lower pixel count FF camera out-resolves a modern high pixel count camera in good light.

The benefit--if any--will be seen in noise level, tonality, and crispness, not in the level of detail.

By the way I'm sure that you picked the aperture values to achieve some equivalency.  However, I would try to shoot best against best. At f11 defraction is clearly taking a toll on the image.  I would like to see both images shot at the lens' best aperture to provide a fair comparison.

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qianp2k
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Re: Resolution test, between crop (18MP) and fullframe (12.8MP)
In reply to nedelcho, Mar 12, 2013

Need to pixel peeping on a better 1080p HD monitor home. My office monitors suck.

I have a few comments.

a) need to set -1/3 EC on 5D as it's well known 5Dc has +1/3 EV more sensitivity than standard ISO. I can see a few 5D highlight has a little overblown.

b) use F8 instead of F11 on 5D photo, and use F5.6 or F6.3 on 60D photo.

c) use MF but I know a bit difficulty on 5D as it doesn't have LV but you still can try in VF.

d) frame into the same AOV. I can see 60D photo has narrower AOV as judge on building's windows for example.

I can do similar tests once having a chance as I do have exact cameras and lens. But it proves 60D 18mp benifit in good light and with a top grade lens.

According to DXOMark 7D vs 5D with 24-70L II they barely having the same resolution that reflected into your tests but affected a little bit in shooting, framing, exposure and AF accuracy difference.  60D sensor is slightly improved over 7D's one.

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Y Hafting
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Re: Resolution test, between crop (18MP) and fullframe (12.8MP)
In reply to nedelcho, Mar 12, 2013
 

Nice test, but hard to get 100% right.

First, i agree on this test, the 60D seems to reslove more detail, however both images show artifacts, which means sharpening or to little detailed jpeg settings come into play. Getting the exact same focus is not easy either. So the test is not complete for those who like nitpicking.

But lets say the results stand, then you have proven that the 24-70 II -which is supposed to be a very sharp lens- really is. Unfortunately there are not so many lenses in this league, but there is no doubt they can be made.

Yngve

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Sovern
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Re: Resolution test, between crop (18MP) and fullframe (12.8MP)
In reply to nedelcho, Mar 12, 2013

5D photo looks like it preserved more detail but other than that I can't tell a difference even pixel peeping.

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qianp2k
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Re: Resolution test, between crop (18MP) and fullframe (12.8MP)
In reply to Sovern, Mar 12, 2013

Sovern wrote:

5D photo looks like it preserved slightly more detail but other than that I can't tell a difference even pixel peeping.

From what I have seen in office relative low HD monitor, part of 5D photos has a bit of over-exposure with details a bit overblown. It should set -1/3 EC on 5D as it's known having +1/3 EV over-sensitive than standard ISO. Despite 5D received more exposure, it's clear that 5D reserves details better in bright sky for example that confirmed what I experienced. As I said before with my own experience, 5Dc performs relative better under soft light if such test was done in a cloudy day for example.

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joger
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Re: Resolution test, between crop (18MP) and fullframe (12.8MP)
In reply to nedelcho, Mar 12, 2013

f/11 does make not much senesce look also here

I'd rather suggest f/4.0 for crop and f/5.6 for ff - which is btw for most fast lenses the sweetspot

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qianp2k
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Re: Resolution test, between crop (18MP) and fullframe (12.8MP)
In reply to joger, Mar 12, 2013

joger wrote:

f/11 does make not much senesce look also here

I'd rather suggest f/4.0 for crop and f/5.6 for ff - which is btw for most fast lenses the sweetspot

Agreed that confirmed in DXOMark test of this lens on 5D and 7D.  Check Measurements | Sharpness | FieldMap, it also suggests F/5.6 has best sharpness on 5D and F/4 on 7D.  They are very close as DXOMark test result shows.

I will do a similar test in this weekend on this suggestion.  It seems will be raining in Saturday and will look into Sunday's window.  My test will be on tripod, MLU with 2-sec timer, MF (try best on 5D thru VF), remote release with cable, against remote subject with lots of textual details.

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Sovern
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Re: Resolution test, between crop (18MP) and fullframe (12.8MP)
In reply to qianp2k, Mar 12, 2013

qianp2k wrote:

Sovern wrote:

5D photo looks like it preserved slightly more detail but other than that I can't tell a difference even pixel peeping.

From what I have seen in office relative low HD monitor, part of 5D photos has a bit of over-exposure with details a bit overblown. It should set -1/3 EC on 5D as it's known having +1/3 EV over-sensitive than standard ISO. Despite 5D received more exposure, it's clear that 5D reserves details better in bright sky for example that confirmed what I experienced. As I said before with my own experience, 5Dc performs relative better under soft light if such test was done in a cloudy day for example.

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Yea. This proves that theres much to it than this whole MP debate though than just mere pixels that determine image quality.

Heck someone can take an iso 100 photo from a 40D, upres it to 20MP, compare it to a 60D 18MP photo taken at iso 800 and the 40D photo could look magnitudes better.

Not to mention that theres so many different variables that determine overall image quality me personally, I believe that MPs plays the smallest role of them all when it comes to image quality especially with upressing possible and lenses being MP limited due to pixel density on crop bodys.

Personally I wish that Canon would scale back the MP's on their crop bodys to say 14MP and focus on increasing dynamic range with their crop bodys.

I'm perfectly happy with my crop body though and it's only 10MP yet I find it has to discern between photos taken with it compared to say a 60D and 5Dmkii at lower isos (sometimes the lower MP photos actually appear to retain more detail compared to the 60D).

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Sovern
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Re: Resolution test, between crop (18MP) and fullframe (12.8MP)
In reply to joger, Mar 12, 2013

joger wrote:

f/11 does make not much senesce look also here

I'd rather suggest f/4.0 for crop and f/5.6 for ff - which is btw for most fast lenses the sweetspot

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I'm sorry but you guys need to spend more time shooting and less time discussing theory unless you enjoy theory more than photography.

I went out on a photoshoot with a model on Saturday and took a few photos at F13 using a crop body with bare flash on my subject to overpower the sun slightly and you could not tell the difference image quality wise from a photo taken at F13 and F5.6 even pixel peeping and even if you could it would be so minor that it wouldn't even manner.

Diffraction is just one of those small things that won't make a good photo bad or a bad photo good because in my opinion most photographers shouldn't even consider it when choosing their settings.

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Dave Luttmann
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In reply to nedelcho, Mar 12, 2013

I can cleary read the fine text in signs in to 60D file that cant be read in the 5D file.  In this comparison, the 60D has more resolution.

I wonder what all the DxO worshippers will make of this?

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Dave Luttmann
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Re: Resolution test, between crop (18MP) and fullframe (12.8MP)
In reply to Sovern, Mar 12, 2013

Sovern wrote:

5D photo looks like it preserved more detail but other than that I can't tell a difference even pixel peeping.

Try reading the fine text in signs.  I can read text in the 60D file that is mush in the 5D.  While both files are good...the 60D is the clear winner here.

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Dave Luttmann
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Re: Resolution test, between crop (18MP) and fullframe (12.8MP)
In reply to gatorowl, Mar 12, 2013

gatorowl wrote:

nedelcho wrote:

I've read here several times allready, that crop cameras has much lower resolution, than even the old 5D, even with a very good lens. So I grow tired of such claims without any backup (except from the questionable DXO site) and decided to test this for myself. Unfortunately the weather here is so so now, so I've tested in the city (not a landscape) and the weather is changing so fast, that in the seconds which cost me to change bodies the sun went behind clouds. Even so, here are the pics, to judge for yourselves. I'll leave my commentary for now and add it later.



Canon EOS 5D + 24-70mm f/2.8L II @ 41mm & f11

Canon EOS 60D + 24-70mm f/2.8L II @ 26mm & f8

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Thanks for the effort, but it strikes me that you are making a straw dog argument. I don't know anyone who claims a lower pixel count FF camera out-resolves a modern high pixel count camera in good light.

Qianp2k in this thread has been claiming just that for years.

The benefit--if any--will be seen in noise level, tonality, and crispness, not in the level of detail.

By the way I'm sure that you picked the aperture values to achieve some equivalency. However, I would try to shoot best against best. At f11 defraction is clearly taking a toll on the image. I would like to see both images shot at the lens' best aperture to provide a fair comparison.

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Sovern
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Re: 60D
In reply to Dave Luttmann, Mar 13, 2013

Dave Luttmann wrote:

I can cleary read the fine text in signs in to 60D file that cant be read in the 5D file. In this comparison, the 60D has more resolution.

I wonder what all the DxO worshippers will make of this?

Funny, I can read the fine text in both. I'm not seeing any differences between both cameras even pixel peeping. That says a lot about using MP's as a deciding factor when it comes to image quality or *sharpness*.

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Great Bustard
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I think fullsize files...
In reply to nedelcho, Mar 13, 2013

...or a few 100% crops from various portions of the scene, would be necessary to determine any resolution differences between the two.

nedelcho wrote:

I've read here several times allready, that crop cameras has much lower resolution, than even the old 5D, even with a very good lens. So I grow tired of such claims without any backup (except from the questionable DXO site) and decided to test this for myself. Unfortunately the weather here is so so now, so I've tested in the city (not a landscape) and the weather is changing so fast, that in the seconds which cost me to change bodies the sun went behind clouds. Even so, here are the pics, to judge for yourselves. I'll leave my commentary for now and add it later.



Canon EOS 5D + 24-70mm f/2.8L II @ 41mm & f11

Canon EOS 60D + 24-70mm f/2.8L II @ 26mm & f8

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