Why do I post here? Locked

Started Mar 9, 2013 | Discussions
This thread is locked.
Lin Evans
Forum ProPosts: 15,141Gear list
As I expected .....
In reply to RonJG, Mar 10, 2013

No one gave you an "order;" it was a simple "request." Your refusal to demonstrate that you actually use the cameras you are so love to comment about brings your honesty into question in my opinion.

Historically, the majority of people who behave as you do have been shown to be those who didn't have and use the very equipment they professed. You have been quite willing to post images from your Fuji camera on the Fuji forum, but not once have you posted a single image from one of the "three" Sigma cameras you claim to use on the very forum where you spend the vast majority of your time - here!

I don't post on forums about equipment I don't use unless it's a question about something I might want to purchase. My honesty isn't in question. I've been posting on the dPReview forums since a few months after they first existed - since the second week of October, 1999. Over the years I've posted thousands of images from dozens of different digital cameras. When legitimate forum users have a problem, they almost always post images so others can help them sort out the cause. That's "normal" behavior. Then there is your behavior. You began your first post on the Sigma forum with "Have I been Ripped Off?" and it's gone downhill for you since.

Repeatedly forum participants have asked you to post images in order to answer your questions and repeatedly you have ultimately refused to do so. But you love to tell others what the problems are with their equipment or their photos and if and when they disagree with your opinions, you either laugh or begin an argument eventually leading to your being branded as a simple troll. A troll is someone who deliberately stirs up controversy and then pretends to be innocent and picked on. You do that very well.

Lin

RonJG wrote:

Lin Evans wrote:

RonJG wrote:

sfa1966 wrote:

RonJG wrote:

I would seriously like to better understand the Sigma cameras I own, (SD1M, SD15 and DP2M). I have problems with all three of them with weird and inconsistent colours, weird and inconsistent exposure and strange jaggies and purple/green splotches in shadow detail.

I'm told I'm either mad or just stirring up trouble with I ask questions or am told that there is nothing wrong with my gear, that all the problems are either in my head or my fault.

Just wondering: Have you ever posted any examples of the various troubles you have had?

-- hide signature --

Cheers,
sfa

Yes.

Why then don't you point sfa1966 to a single image you have posted here with any of the three Sigma cameras or the D800E which you own?

Why? What's with your obsession.

I can't find a single instance of any Sigma images you have posted on dPReview. I asked you to photograph a simple water glass with each of your Sigma cameras and your D800E and post links to the RAW images and you ignored the request

Why should I bow and scrape to you? Who are you to give me orders?

Yet you continually tell others who frequently post images from their Sigma cameras what is wrong with them,

Very, very infrequently actually.

Do please try to be honest. Big ask, I know, but with a bit of effort you may get there.

-- hide signature --

learntomakeslidshows.net

unknown member
(unknown member)
Re: As I expected .....
In reply to Lin Evans, Mar 10, 2013

Totally agree.  If you are going to complain about something here, you should be prepared to post examples and details and allow others to help or analyze the situation so that improvement suggestions can be offered.

Anything else is just sh!tstirring.

-- hide signature --

DISCLAIMER: The text written herein is meant to provide the opinions and/or suggestions of the author. No statement herein is meant to be considered law of the land, representative of any party or group, and or a quote from any party or group. Neither is any statement in the contained text meant to be taken as scripture, doctrine, or all encompassing of an entire populous or any groups or individuals therein.

 rattymouse's gear list:rattymouse's gear list
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zerotator
Junior MemberPosts: 25Gear list
Re: Why do I post here?
In reply to RonJG, Mar 10, 2013

because sigma DIGITAL photography is for unusual people with unusual skills and most of all lovers of light.

nothing beats foveon YET

cheers

 zerotator's gear list:zerotator's gear list
Ricoh GR Digital Sigma DP3 Merrill Ricoh GR Fujifilm X-Pro1 Fujifilm XF 35mm F1.4 R
sfa1966
Veteran MemberPosts: 3,137Gear list
Re: Why do I post here?
In reply to RonJG, Mar 10, 2013

RonJG wrote:

sfa1966 wrote:

RonJG wrote:

I would seriously like to better understand the Sigma cameras I own, (SD1M, SD15 and DP2M). I have problems with all three of them with weird and inconsistent colours, weird and inconsistent exposure and strange jaggies and purple/green splotches in shadow detail.

I'm told I'm either mad or just stirring up trouble with I ask questions or am told that there is nothing wrong with my gear, that all the problems are either in my head or my fault.

Just wondering: Have you ever posted any examples of the various troubles you have had?

-- hide signature --

Cheers,
sfa

Yes.

Could you perhaps help out with a link to your previously posted example(s), or, if they've been removed, maybe re-post them?

I did look through your posting history for your examples, but I could not find them.

-- hide signature --

Cheers,
sfa

 sfa1966's gear list:sfa1966's gear list
Sigma DP1 Sigma DP2 Merrill Pentax K-5 Pentax smc DA 15mm F4 ED AL Limited Pentax smc DA* 16-50mm F2.8 ED AL (IF) SDM +9 more
SigmaChrome
Veteran MemberPosts: 6,815Gear list
Re: Why do I post here?
In reply to RonJG, Mar 10, 2013

RonJG wrote:

SigmaChrome wrote:

ArvoJ wrote:


RonJG wrote:

I would seriously like to better understand the Sigma cameras I own, (SD1M, SD15 and DP2M).

Then ask about specific problems, their causes, possible solutions or workarounds. Ask politely, do not get obsessed with emotional answers, do not try to insult others. Express your opinions in neutral way, do not talk down other people.

Easy? Just generic forum etiquette, nothing more.

I couldn't agree more, Arvo.

Post some photos and point out where you see the problems. And stop labeling people SigMafia and liars.

When they lie, I'll call them on it.

You'll catch more flies with honey.

That's a bit sucky, isn't it? You're suggesting I post dishonestly in order I receive positive response. Therer's something fundamentally wrong with that.

Well, I tried to offer a helpful suggestion, i.e., that you post some photos. You ignored that and inferred that there's something fundamentally wrong (with me, I'm guessing) and you called my suggestion "sucky". Wow, what am I dealing with here...? I give up. You're not worth the effort - a waste of keystrokes.

-- hide signature --
 SigmaChrome's gear list:SigmaChrome's gear list
Sigma DP1 Sigma DP2 Merrill Sony RX100 Sigma DP3 Merrill Sigma SD14 +13 more
unknown member
(unknown member)
Re: Why do I post here?
In reply to SigmaChrome, Mar 10, 2013

SigmaChrome wrote:

RonJG wrote:

SigmaChrome wrote:

ArvoJ wrote:


RonJG wrote:

I would seriously like to better understand the Sigma cameras I own, (SD1M, SD15 and DP2M).

Then ask about specific problems, their causes, possible solutions or workarounds. Ask politely, do not get obsessed with emotional answers, do not try to insult others. Express your opinions in neutral way, do not talk down other people.

Easy? Just generic forum etiquette, nothing more.

I couldn't agree more, Arvo.

Post some photos and point out where you see the problems. And stop labeling people SigMafia and liars.

When they lie, I'll call them on it.

You'll catch more flies with honey.

That's a bit sucky, isn't it? You're suggesting I post dishonestly in order I receive positive response. Therer's something fundamentally wrong with that.

Well, I tried to offer a helpful suggestion, i.e., that you post some photos. You ignored that and inferred that there's something fundamentally wrong (with me, I'm guessing) and you called my suggestion "sucky". Wow, what am I dealing with here...? I give up. You're not worth the effort - a waste of keystrokes.

Hard to understand why he would post in the first place if not looking for ways to get solutions.

Just a ranter i guess.

-- hide signature --

DISCLAIMER: The text written herein is meant to provide the opinions and/or suggestions of the author. No statement herein is meant to be considered law of the land, representative of any party or group, and or a quote from any party or group. Neither is any statement in the contained text meant to be taken as scripture, doctrine, or all encompassing of an entire populous or any groups or individuals therein.

 rattymouse's gear list:rattymouse's gear list
Fujifilm FinePix F10 Zoom Fujifilm FinePix F20 Zoom Fujifilm FinePix F70EXR Fujifilm FinePix X100 Fujifilm X10 +9 more
SiFu
Veteran MemberPosts: 4,410
sorry...
In reply to RonJG, Mar 10, 2013

Hello!

I have been away for years, so I do not know about your problems here, but what actually are you trying to say (other than vent some frustration and talk down on others)?

Your statement of "12 years problems" clearly shows that you have allready made up your mind about Sigma - from what I see in this thread, people are nonetheless still willing to listen to your "problems", while you are acting like the classic troll all about.

I do not know either, when "do not feed the troll" became unpopular here, but I will do so, make this my sole statement on your behaviour here and wish you all the best.

Regards,

Alex

-- hide signature --

carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero
=> Selected Macro Photos:
http://www.pbase.com/magma_photography/jf

yvind Strm
Veteran MemberPosts: 4,127
About fanboys
In reply to RonJG, Mar 11, 2013

RonJG wrote:

I would seriously like to better understand the Sigma cameras I own, (SD1M, SD15 and DP2M). I have problems with all three of them with weird and inconsistent colours, weird and inconsistent exposure and strange jaggies and purple/green splotches in shadow detail.

I'm told I'm either mad or just stirring up trouble with I ask questions or am told that there is nothing wrong with my gear, that all the problems are either in my head or my fault.

The "help" I have received here has either been non existent or has been of such patronising quality it was immediately dismissed.

This forum is NOT a terribly helpful place to be if you fall out with the SigMafia, or if one of the SigMafia decides you are not worthy. One step out of line and the dog pack is released. Pretty disgusting behaviour I must say.

Anyhoo - I'm certainly no quitter and I will continue to try to get these Sigma things working at something approaching an acceptable level.

I will also continue to offer honest and open oipinion on posted pictures and I will continue challenging those persons I feel are being less than open or honest with their comments. If honest comments are not received at Sigma headquarters, problems will never be fixed. The 12 years or so of the purple/green splotches is testament to that.

Go your damndest, Sigmafia. I ain't leaving voluntarily.

Ron

I am sorry that I have missed your request for help. There ARE several helpful people here. I will do whatever I can to help. Please link to previous requests or write a new list. Even several member of the "sigmafia" are helpful - if you do not insult their cameras or Sigma, and when they not are busy with:

  1. defending against imaginary trolls
  2. scanning a posters history to find out if he has a Sigma
  3. scanning a posters history to find quotas to use against him
  4. denying that a problem exist, unless they have seen it themself (to be fair, only a few falls into this category)
  5. monitoring if one of their friends (or heroes) are beeing critisized
  6. managing their huge Ignore list
  7. feeding a posters post into a very advanced algorythm to match him against all previous persons that is disliked in this forum (which is an even huger list), and share among them
  8. mending their hurt feelings when someone critisize their camera or Sigma (oh, I have alraedy said that once)
  9. pulling out Richard Stone as last line of defence. Sorry, Richard - you wondered who would step out in defence of RonJ. That comment might have made some to refrain from doing so - which I have no doubt was the intention (and a new low, even from  you) - but, sorry, not me. Oh, I must say, not so much in defence of RonJ, but against the behaviour of you and other fanboys. I would not accuse any of you fanboys beeing only 13 or so, but its not always easy to see that from your and others posts. Your language is of course too sophisticated, but the attacks are not.

And then there is the wannabees. Relativly new to the forum, they jump in, in defence (no, sorry, join the attack) of the master "fanboys".

There are also some hidden aspects in this forum, that is invisible to newcomers, but may explain some of the strange things happening here. Firstly, many of the oldtimers meet in person. On PMA - with tours (with equipment form Sigma), and dinners (sponosred by Sigma). Some may even be found behind the counters at Sigmas stand, helping Sigma demonstrating. So, maybe some are defending priviledges in addition to camera/Sigma?

Next thing is Beta testers. Several people here are betatesters for Sigma. Would you find it reasonable to expect that they agreed on faults they did not find when testing?

Dunno why I write this - I don't know how many times I have tried to get people to behave better here. I claim that the fanboy approach of to many here, is harming Sigma. For every poster there are many, many lurkers. People are attracted to Sigma, comes here to see if Sigma has a good community - and what do they find? A bunch of uncivil people that jumps in unison on anyone differing in views about their camera or Sigma. Does it scare some from buying Sigma cameras? I am sure it has.

The Sigmafia/fanboy behaviour of this forum may drive out some unwanted individuals (and yes, that has been done successfully many times over the years) and regain the illusion of a cosy place. To me, it is the fanboys, Sigmafia or whatever name appropriate that spoils almost ALL the spoiled discussions here, by far to often responding in an uncivil way. The favorite excuse is that there has been so many trolls coming here over the years, so people have a low tolerance.

I have used Sigma for several years now (oh, I havn't shown a picture of a glass of water yet, so Linn probably do not believe it). From the very launch of my camera (the SD14) the forum flooded with faults. Over the coming years I collected tips and tricks, and turned it into a compendium for new users. (Temporarely unavailible)

My take is - let's get everything on the table. If a persons unit doesn't show the same behaviour, good for you - but do not deny problems other have. Only if everything is out in the open, workarounds can be found (or not), and Sigma can be notified and make a fix. Sigma cameras is different, quirks are numerous, Sigmas SW qualities is inferior to most others makers and unit variation is present. I thought I could use the SD14 for professional jobs, but had to postpone my plans for returning to pro jobs for several years.

But in the end, one must decide if the potentionally superb results makes it worth the endless frustrations of the camera. I can't risk using my SD14 to earn money, so I go for a Nikon D800E, which I consider closest to getting Sigmas microcontrast. And possibly a DP2M.

Ron, a few words of advice to you too.

If someone posts a picture, and do not especially ask for feedback, a good advice is to wait a little, till the usual Ahhs, and Ohhs has come, and the author do not prostests to getting positive feedback, then I can step in, either to challenge the responders to why they think it is a good image, or offering a rather extensive comment about the picture. I always say what I mean, but I try to do it in a constructive way. But, some people do ONLY want pats on their back, which they unfortunately get from friends and alike. SO you can still be honest, but I too think you came off to direct in your first post.

With that said, the responses from Linn and others was far worse.

-- hide signature --

Kind regards
Øyvind

Usee
Senior MemberPosts: 1,367Gear list
Re: About fanboys
In reply to yvind Strm, Mar 11, 2013

yvind Strm wrote:

RonJG wrote:

I would seriously like to better understand the Sigma cameras I own, (SD1M, SD15 and DP2M). I have problems with all three of them with weird and inconsistent colours, weird and inconsistent exposure and strange jaggies and purple/green splotches in shadow detail.

I'm told I'm either mad or just stirring up trouble with I ask questions or am told that there is nothing wrong with my gear, that all the problems are either in my head or my fault.

The "help" I have received here has either been non existent or has been of such patronising quality it was immediately dismissed.

This forum is NOT a terribly helpful place to be if you fall out with the SigMafia, or if one of the SigMafia decides you are not worthy. One step out of line and the dog pack is released. Pretty disgusting behaviour I must say.

Anyhoo - I'm certainly no quitter and I will continue to try to get these Sigma things working at something approaching an acceptable level.

I will also continue to offer honest and open oipinion on posted pictures and I will continue challenging those persons I feel are being less than open or honest with their comments. If honest comments are not received at Sigma headquarters, problems will never be fixed. The 12 years or so of the purple/green splotches is testament to that.

Go your damndest, Sigmafia. I ain't leaving voluntarily.

Ron

I am sorry that I have missed your request for help. There ARE several helpful people here. I will do whatever I can to help. Please link to previous requests or write a new list. Even several member of the "sigmafia" are helpful - if you do not insult their cameras or Sigma, and when they not are busy with:

  1. defending against imaginary trolls
  2. scanning a posters history to find out if he has a Sigma
  3. scanning a posters history to find quotas to use against him
  4. denying that a problem exist, unless they have seen it themself (to be fair, only a few falls into this category)
  5. monitoring if one of their friends (or heroes) are beeing critisized
  6. managing their huge Ignore list
  7. feeding a posters post into a very advanced algorythm to match him against all previous persons that is disliked in this forum (which is an even huger list), and share among them
  8. mending their hurt feelings when someone critisize their camera or Sigma (oh, I have alraedy said that once)
  9. pulling out Richard Stone as last line of defence. Sorry, Richard - you wondered who would step out in defence of RonJ. That comment might have made some to refrain from doing so - which I have no doubt was the intention (and a new low, even from you) - but, sorry, not me. Oh, I must say, not so much in defence of RonJ, but against the behaviour of you and other fanboys. I would not accuse any of you fanboys beeing only 13 or so, but its not always easy to see that from your and others posts. Your language is of course too sophisticated, but the attacks are not.

And then there is the wannabees. Relativly new to the forum, they jump in, in defence (no, sorry, join the attack) of the master "fanboys".

There are also some hidden aspects in this forum, that is invisible to newcomers, but may explain some of the strange things happening here. Firstly, many of the oldtimers meet in person. On PMA - with tours (with equipment form Sigma), and dinners (sponosred by Sigma). Some may even be found behind the counters at Sigmas stand, helping Sigma demonstrating. So, maybe some are defending priviledges in addition to camera/Sigma?

Next thing is Beta testers. Several people here are betatesters for Sigma. Would you find it reasonable to expect that they agreed on faults they did not find when testing?

Dunno why I write this - I don't know how many times I have tried to get people to behave better here. I claim that the fanboy approach of to many here, is harming Sigma. For every poster there are many, many lurkers. People are attracted to Sigma, comes here to see if Sigma has a good community - and what do they find? A bunch of uncivil people that jumps in unison on anyone differing in views about their camera or Sigma. Does it scare some from buying Sigma cameras? I am sure it has.

The Sigmafia/fanboy behaviour of this forum may drive out some unwanted individuals (and yes, that has been done successfully many times over the years) and regain the illusion of a cosy place. To me, it is the fanboys, Sigmafia or whatever name appropriate that spoils almost ALL the spoiled discussions here, by far to often responding in an uncivil way. The favorite excuse is that there has been so many trolls coming here over the years, so people have a low tolerance.

I have used Sigma for several years now (oh, I havn't shown a picture of a glass of water yet, so Linn probably do not believe it). From the very launch of my camera (the SD14) the forum flooded with faults. Over the coming years I collected tips and tricks, and turned it into a compendium for new users. (Temporarely unavailible)

My take is - let's get everything on the table. If a persons unit doesn't show the same behaviour, good for you - but do not deny problems other have. Only if everything is out in the open, workarounds can be found (or not), and Sigma can be notified and make a fix. Sigma cameras is different, quirks are numerous, Sigmas SW qualities is inferior to most others makers and unit variation is present. I thought I could use the SD14 for professional jobs, but had to postpone my plans for returning to pro jobs for several years.

But in the end, one must decide if the potentionally superb results makes it worth the endless frustrations of the camera. I can't risk using my SD14 to earn money, so I go for a Nikon D800E, which I consider closest to getting Sigmas microcontrast. And possibly a DP2M.

Ron, a few words of advice to you too.

If someone posts a picture, and do not especially ask for feedback, a good advice is to wait a little, till the usual Ahhs, and Ohhs has come, and the author do not prostests to getting positive feedback, then I can step in, either to challenge the responders to why they think it is a good image, or offering a rather extensive comment about the picture. I always say what I mean, but I try to do it in a constructive way. But, some people do ONLY want pats on their back, which they unfortunately get from friends and alike. SO you can still be honest, but I too think you came off to direct in your first post.

With that said, the responses from Linn and others was far worse.

-- hide signature --

Kind regards
Øyvind

Hello Yvind,

chapeau!

-

The first really usefull thread (from a passionated Sigma user) in this forum was IMHO:

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/thread/2850570



...made by You.

-

The best description of the forum habits - not only for newcomer - is what You wrote above!

Congratulations!

I see U see

Ulrich

-

Envy is the highest form of recognition.

Stop to run, start to think.
Think twice - that doubles the fun!
Your world is as big, as Your mind.

Avoid to have only one point of view!

Uli

-

P.S.:

Your input is worth more than just a bookmark!

DMillier
Forum ProPosts: 16,969
Re: About fanboys
In reply to yvind Strm, Mar 11, 2013

Splendid, splendid post!

By the way, quite by chance I came across a thread on the Fuji forum demanding to know whether Fuji's could take shots like this:

http://www.anotherfaceinthecrowd.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/testshot-2.jpg

This example is a long way from the kind of genre I shoot,but to these eyes, this is asuperbly lit and shot image where responsibility for almost all the quality lies with the photographer, not the gear.  He/she would have achieved these professional results with just about any kit.

So in answer to the OP in the fuji forum and the earlier poster in this thread who said only Foveon can capture the light, I say it's not about gear, it's about skill and experience...

-- hide signature --
Tom Schum
Senior MemberPosts: 2,998Gear list
Re: Why do I post here?
In reply to RonJG, Mar 11, 2013

Good comments and as a fellow Sigma (DP2, SD15, SD1) user I can agree with most of them.

There is a mindset and there is a photo.  Two different things.

At this point I'm not thinking seriously of using my Sigmas in low light, since I have another camera that does well in low light.  When they have lots of light they work very well, at least that has been my experience.  I think they could do well in low light if the pixels were 4x bigger, but today's market will not support that so we will never see it.

My biggest problem in the past was trying to use them in every situation and they really don't do well as all-around general purpose cameras.

Yesterday in full sunlight I compared my DP2 and my Fuji X10, with the X10 in EXR high dynamic range mode (6 megapixel images from a 12 megapixel sensor).  The DP2 won!  So, what Sigmas do best is really very good indeed.

-- hide signature --

Tom Schum

 Tom Schum's gear list:Tom Schum's gear list
Sigma DP3 Merrill Fujifilm X-E1 Sigma 50mm F2.8 EX DG Macro Samyang 8mm F2.8 UMC Fisheye Sigma 18-250mm F3.5-6.3 DC Macro OS HSM +3 more
Tom Schum
Senior MemberPosts: 2,998Gear list
Re: Why do I post here?
In reply to RonJG, Mar 11, 2013

RonJG wrote:

The white balance is never consistent. Take 6 photos within seconds of each other of the same subject in the same light and you gill get 6 differing colour responses and six different exposures.

I've used the Expodisc white balance device with my SD15 and it delivers apparently consistent results (at least it seems that way to me).  Haven't tried it with my SD1 or with my DP2 but I imagine it will work just fine with them, too.

Here is a link:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/358074-REG/ExpoImaging_EXPOD77_ExpoDisc_77mm_Digital_White.html

-- hide signature --

Tom Schum

 Tom Schum's gear list:Tom Schum's gear list
Sigma DP3 Merrill Fujifilm X-E1 Sigma 50mm F2.8 EX DG Macro Samyang 8mm F2.8 UMC Fisheye Sigma 18-250mm F3.5-6.3 DC Macro OS HSM +3 more
mroy
Contributing MemberPosts: 512
Splendid
In reply to yvind Strm, Mar 11, 2013
I am sorry that I have missed your request for help. There ARE several helpful people here. I will do whatever I can to help. Please link to previous requests or write a new list. Even several member of the "sigmafia" are helpful - if you do not insult their cameras or Sigma, and when they not are busy with:
  1. defending against imaginary trolls
  2. scanning a posters history to find out if he has a Sigma
  3. scanning a posters history to find quotas to use against him
  4. denying that a problem exist, unless they have seen it themself (to be fair, only a few falls into this category)
  5. monitoring if one of their friends (or heroes) are beeing critisized
  6. managing their huge Ignore list
  7. feeding a posters post into a very advanced algorythm to match him against all previous persons that is disliked in this forum (which is an even huger list), and share among them
  8. mending their hurt feelings when someone critisize their camera or Sigma (oh, I have alraedy said that once)
  9. pulling out Richard Stone as last line of defence. Sorry, Richard - you wondered who would step out in defence of RonJ. That comment might have made some to refrain from doing so - which I have no doubt was the intention (and a new low, even from you) - but, sorry, not me. Oh, I must say, not so much in defence of RonJ, but against the behaviour of you and other fanboys. I would not accuse any of you fanboys beeing only 13 or so, but its not always easy to see that from your and others posts. Your language is of course too sophisticated, but the attacks are not.

And then there is the wannabees. Relativly new to the forum, they jump in, in defence (no, sorry, join the attack) of the master "fanboys".

There are also some hidden aspects in this forum, that is invisible to newcomers, but may explain some of the strange things happening here. Firstly, many of the oldtimers meet in person. On PMA - with tours (with equipment form Sigma), and dinners (sponosred by Sigma). Some may even be found behind the counters at Sigmas stand, helping Sigma demonstrating. So, maybe some are defending priviledges in addition to camera/Sigma?

Next thing is Beta testers. Several people here are betatesters for Sigma. Would you find it reasonable to expect that they agreed on faults they did not find when testing?

Dunno why I write this - I don't know how many times I have tried to get people to behave better here. I claim that the fanboy approach of to many here, is harming Sigma. For every poster there are many, many lurkers. People are attracted to Sigma, comes here to see if Sigma has a good community - and what do they find? A bunch of uncivil people that jumps in unison on anyone differing in views about their camera or Sigma. Does it scare some from buying Sigma cameras? I am sure it has.

The Sigmafia/fanboy behaviour of this forum may drive out some unwanted individuals (and yes, that has been done successfully many times over the years) and regain the illusion of a cosy place. To me, it is the fanboys, Sigmafia or whatever name appropriate that spoils almost ALL the spoiled discussions here, by far to often responding in an uncivil way. The favorite excuse is that there has been so many trolls coming here over the years, so people have a low tolerance.

I have used Sigma for several years now (oh, I havn't shown a picture of a glass of water yet, so Linn probably do not believe it). From the very launch of my camera (the SD14) the forum flooded with faults. Over the coming years I collected tips and tricks, and turned it into a compendium for new users. (Temporarely unavailible)

My take is - let's get everything on the table. If a persons unit doesn't show the same behaviour, good for you - but do not deny problems other have. Only if everything is out in the open, workarounds can be found (or not), and Sigma can be notified and make a fix. Sigma cameras is different, quirks are numerous, Sigmas SW qualities is inferior to most others makers and unit variation is present. I thought I could use the SD14 for professional jobs, but had to postpone my plans for returning to pro jobs for several years.

But in the end, one must decide if the potentionally superb results makes it worth the endless frustrations of the camera. I can't risk using my SD14 to earn money, so I go for a Nikon D800E, which I consider closest to getting Sigmas microcontrast. And possibly a DP2M.

Ron, a few words of advice to you too.

If someone posts a picture, and do not especially ask for feedback, a good advice is to wait a little, till the usual Ahhs, and Ohhs has come, and the author do not prostests to getting positive feedback, then I can step in, either to challenge the responders to why they think it is a good image, or offering a rather extensive comment about the picture. I always say what I mean, but I try to do it in a constructive way. But, some people do ONLY want pats on their back, which they unfortunately get from friends and alike. SO you can still be honest, but I too think you came off to direct in your first post.

With that said, the responses from Linn and others was far worse.

-- hide signature --

Kind regards
Øyvind

A rare insight into the head of a self-righteous man.

Richard Franiec
Senior MemberPosts: 2,030Gear list
Re: About fanboys
In reply to yvind Strm, Mar 11, 2013

Thank you Yvind for the guts and resulting sobering post. I'm sure the issues you have pointed out resonate well with feelings of many participants on this forum and lurking observers alike.

Also, I'm so grateful for the thread you started way back (and Uli reminded us of) about what the good picture is all about. I think this was the most valuable guide provided in simple terms and backed up with critique examples posted in any forum or found in any book I saw. I know, it has changed the way I approach my own photo taking in rather dramatic way and will serve as an reminder forever.

Gratefully,

Richard

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Richard Franiec
Senior MemberPosts: 2,030Gear list
Re: Splendid
In reply to mroy, Mar 11, 2013

What do you know about him?

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Lin Evans
Forum ProPosts: 15,141Gear list
About trolls...
In reply to yvind Strm, Mar 11, 2013

What leads you to conclude that "trolls" here are "imaginary?" If they are not, the majority of what you have to say is labeling others here who have a low tolerance for people who blatantly "lie" as "fanboys."

dPReview agrees that there are trolls on forums. When a person deliberately provokes others with constant irritating and snide remarks and when that exact person bald face lies when directly asked had they posted images here then they become highly suspect of qualifying as a "troll." Look up the definition, I don't believe you truly understand it.

Lin

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learntomakeslidshows.net

mroy
Contributing MemberPosts: 512
Nothing
In reply to Richard Franiec, Mar 11, 2013

Richard Franiec wrote:

What do you know about him?

do I know about him.

The same can't be said about him. Want a small example?

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/post/50794820

'Since you haven´t seen them, maybe your monitor is so bad that it does not show them? Just to be sure, you HAVE taken picture with your DP2M?'

Wrong on both accounts. I have a very good monitor, properly calibrated, and I have the DP2M since August last year and have posted several examples here.

'You have been here too long. You are adapting the: "If I can´t see it, the problem does not exist." attitude. AND make personal attacks on people daring to post imperfections about your beloved camera. It´s a THING. Noone is attacking you personally by telling about a problem they have with the equipment.'

He knows what about me? And how?

Hence my conclusion, solely based on his posts in this forum: self-righteous.

PS:

He actually is right about one thing: I love my DP2M and for me it's not a 'THING'.

PPS:

Why do you ask at all?

Richard Franiec
Senior MemberPosts: 2,030Gear list
Re: Nothing
In reply to mroy, Mar 11, 2013

mroy wrote:

Richard Franiec wrote:

What do you know about him?

Why do you ask at all?

Because if bruised ego is a predominant factor in formulating the further opinion, such opinion does not count much.

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xpatUSA
Senior MemberPosts: 2,033Gear list
An unlikely ally speaks up
In reply to RonJG, Mar 11, 2013

Unlikely because I had quite a bash-out with our Ron recently, replete with barbed sarcasm and traded insults above and beyond the subject at hand. To an extent, the worthy member's frustration is understandable. He mentions "the pack" and, on another forum on another site, I have been known mention "circling wolves" quite by coincidence, I assure y'all.

My own frustration usually appears when, having spent considerable time and effort on something technical and having posted it for the interest of others or even as imagined useful information, I get jumped for ignoring the good old "Real World" with copious mentions of "the print", twigs on trees, artistic license, etc. This in spite of it saying "watch photography"at the bottom of every post and endless statements by me that I only view images on my screen and only post on the web.

It's difficult not to lash out sometimes - even though we shouldn't.

-- hide signature --

Regards,
Ted http://kronometric.org
SD10/70mm Macro/17-70mm zoom

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SandyF
Forum ProPosts: 14,744Gear list
Re: Nothing
In reply to Richard Franiec, Mar 11, 2013

Richard Franiec wrote:

mroy wrote:

Richard Franiec wrote:

What do you know about him?

Why do you ask at all?

Because if bruised ego is a predominant factor in formulating the further opinion, such opinion does not count much.

ahhh, this works several ways too. "Bruised ego" or envy may account for some of the anti-Sigma negativity too, I've often thought, not just in reference to this thread. I remember people posting, asking, how to get their hands on 'early' aka beta cameras and/or software and/or be part of the 'testing' group or have photos hung at shows, etc etc.

FWIW, all anyone needs to do to be part of a Sigma 'shoot' is to attend! No club membership card needed. In fact at the last shoot, not everyone was using Sigma cameras.

Best regards, Sandy
http://www.pbase.com/sandyfleischman (archival)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sandyfleischmann (current)

added: and name-calling just because someone is perceived as an 'insider' (rhetorical question, inside what?) I do not appreciate being called by RonJG, "the butcher." I actually tried to be helpful to him, as I try to be to most people, when he first began posting under his new username, and was rebuffed. I

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