New Canon on 22nd March?

Started Mar 7, 2013 | Discussions
SpartanWarrior
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Re: 70D in trouble ???
In reply to jonrobertp, Mar 14, 2013

jonrobertp wrote:

Look at the lastest posted images released on the D7100 site here on dpr...those hi iso shots...yikes, they do look good.

C'mon, Canon...lets get on with the show. Game on. May the best man(camera) win.

They look fantastic, don't expect much from canon though...

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bobn2
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Re: 70D in trouble ???
In reply to SpartanWarrior, Mar 14, 2013

SpartanWarrior wrote:

jonrobertp wrote:

Look at the lastest posted images released on the D7100 site here on dpr...those hi iso shots...yikes, they do look good.

C'mon, Canon...lets get on with the show. Game on. May the best man(camera) win.

They look fantastic, don't expect much from canon though...

You don't know. Now that Nikon's getting sensors from Toshiba, maybe Canon will get them from Sony.

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SpartanWarrior
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Re: 70D in trouble ???
In reply to bobn2, Mar 14, 2013

SpartanWarrior wrote:

jonrobertp wrote:

Look at the lastest posted images released on the D7100 site here on dpr...those hi iso shots...yikes, they do look good.

C'mon, Canon...lets get on with the show. Game on. May the best man(camera) win.

They look fantastic, don't expect much from canon though...

You don't know. Now that Nikon's getting sensors from Toshiba, maybe Canon will get them from Sony.

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Bob

Wanna bet? Lol

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jonrobertp
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Re: 70D in trouble ???
In reply to SpartanWarrior, Mar 14, 2013

Spartan...sure...:)    ...well, l do hope Canon doesn't dissappoint...cause these D7100 samples...are very impressive indeed.

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SpartanWarrior
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Re: 70D in trouble ???
In reply to jonrobertp, Mar 15, 2013

jonrobertp wrote:

Spartan...sure...:) ...well, l do hope Canon doesn't dissappoint...cause these D7100 samples...are very impressive indeed.

Yes very impressive, heck it's only 1,100,00 euro here so I might just buy one;)

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Mark B.
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Re: 70D in trouble ???
In reply to howardroark, Mar 15, 2013

howardroark wrote:

jonrobertp wrote:

Look at the lastest posted images released on the D7100 site here on dpr...those hi iso shots...yikes, they do look good.

C'mon, Canon...lets get on with the show. Game on. May the best man(camera) win.

Hopefully in another 8 days we'll have some answers. I'm pretty sure my next camera will either be a 7DMarkIII or a 6DMarkII.

6D II??  No, the 6D just came out in the fall of last year.

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crazybadger
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Re: 70D in trouble ???
In reply to SpartanWarrior, Mar 15, 2013

SpartanWarrior wrote:

jonrobertp wrote:

Look at the lastest posted images released on the D7100 site here on dpr...those hi iso shots...yikes, they do look good.

C'mon, Canon...lets get on with the show. Game on. May the best man(camera) win.

They look fantastic, don't expect much from canon though...

Why are you still here with Canon then? Seriously? You complain that canon hasn't done anything good recently and then make statements like this one below.

"Don't take it the wrong way, I have a 7D and really like it and I bought the 5D III that is GREAT"

and

"Yes what you say is very true but common 6D with 9 focus points? from what I read it is a very good camera..."

So what are you complaining about? Canon have given you two cameras that you "really liked" and found "great" in the last 2-3 years, and although YOU might not like the features of the 6D you acknowledge that it is a "very good camera", which by the way many ARE very happy with, and yet you are still whining not to expect anything good from canon?

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SpartanWarrior
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Re: 70D in trouble ???
In reply to crazybadger, Mar 15, 2013

crazybadger wrote:

SpartanWarrior wrote:

jonrobertp wrote:

Look at the lastest posted images released on the D7100 site here on dpr...those hi iso shots...yikes, they do look good.

C'mon, Canon...lets get on with the show. Game on. May the best man(camera) win.

They look fantastic, don't expect much from canon though...

Why are you still here with Canon then? Seriously? You complain that canon hasn't done anything good recently and then make statements like this one below.

"Don't take it the wrong way, I have a 7D and really like it and I bought the 5D III that is GREAT"

and

"Yes what you say is very true but common 6D with 9 focus points? from what I read it is a very good camera..."

So what are you complaining about? Canon have given you two cameras that you "really liked" and found "great" in the last 2-3 years, and although YOU might not like the features of the 6D you acknowledge that it is a "very good camera", which by the way many ARE very happy with, and yet you are still whining not to expect anything good from canon?

Yes I will hang on that projector pen looks sweet LOL;)

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Re: 70D in trouble ???
In reply to crazybadger, Mar 15, 2013

crazybadger wrote:

SpartanWarrior wrote:

jonrobertp wrote:

Look at the lastest posted images released on the D7100 site here on dpr...those hi iso shots...yikes, they do look good.

C'mon, Canon...lets get on with the show. Game on. May the best man(camera) win.

They look fantastic, don't expect much from canon though...

Why are you still here with Canon then? Seriously? You complain that canon hasn't done anything good recently and then make statements like this one below.

"Don't take it the wrong way, I have a 7D and really like it and I bought the 5D III that is GREAT"

and

"Yes what you say is very true but common 6D with 9 focus points? from what I read it is a very good camera..."

So what are you complaining about? Canon have given you two cameras that you "really liked" and found "great" in the last 2-3 years, and although YOU might not like the features of the 6D you acknowledge that it is a "very good camera", which by the way many ARE very happy with, and yet you are still whining not to expect anything good from canon?

People must be used to Canon always having the latest and greatest while everyone else plays catch up.  That's the only explanation for the perception that Canon has fallen behind when the only big change has been one product release cycle from Nikon impressing some people.  Canon can't get technology out the door on the exact same schedule as every other company they compete with, but the attention spans and expectations of some people just itch for something to amaze, entertain, and possibly provide more fodder for forum debate.

Another thing that stuns me about the fools talking about Canon scrapping their in-house sensor development is the fact the perception of Canon as a camera company.  No, Canon isn't in laptops and TV's like Sony (don't correct me, I know Sony makes everything except kitchen sinks.....probably have a subsidiary that does, though), but Canon is a huge company with a huge R&D budget.  They make some of their sensors in house because they're good at it and they can afford it.  Nikon, no matter whose sensor they're using this week, were forced to compete in digital only because of Canon.....and that rivalry and its influence on  the exploding DSLR market forced Sony, Olympus, Pentax, Fuji, Panasonic, etc. to finally come up with some interesting ideas.  People blame Canon for being slow to react and fail to recognize that their deep investment in DSLR technology is the only reason they have their cute little ILC.

Oh well, people just want to be entertained and feel like their opinion matters to camera companies.  Unless they have the same or similar opinion a few million other people (an exaggeration) then camera makers probably don't know they exist.

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Franklin J Ellias
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Re: 70D in trouble ???
In reply to howardroark, Mar 15, 2013

Well written!

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meland
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Re: 70D in trouble ???
In reply to howardroark, Mar 15, 2013

howardroark wrote:


People must be used to Canon always having the latest and greatest while everyone else plays catch up. That's the only explanation for the perception that Canon has fallen behind when the only big change has been one product release cycle from Nikon impressing some people. Canon can't get technology out the door on the exact same schedule as every other company they compete with, but the attention spans and expectations of some people just itch for something to amaze, entertain, and possibly provide more fodder for forum debate.

Another thing that stuns me about the fools talking about Canon scrapping their in-house sensor development is the fact the perception of Canon as a camera company. No, Canon isn't in laptops and TV's like Sony (don't correct me, I know Sony makes everything except kitchen sinks.....probably have a subsidiary that does, though), but Canon is a huge company with a huge R&D budget. They make some of their sensors in house because they're good at it and they can afford it. Nikon, no matter whose sensor they're using this week, were forced to compete in digital only because of Canon.....and that rivalry and its influence on the exploding DSLR market forced Sony, Olympus, Pentax, Fuji, Panasonic, etc. to finally come up with some interesting ideas. People blame Canon for being slow to react and fail to recognize that their deep investment in DSLR technology is the only reason they have their cute little ILC.

Oh well, people just want to be entertained and feel like their opinion matters to camera companies. Unless they have the same or similar opinion a few million other people (an exaggeration) then camera makers probably don't know they exist.

Yes it's much easier to complain that Canon haven't done this, or done that than it is to take the responsibility for the possibility of hundreds of thousands of unsold cameras if you as the manufacturer doesn't get it right.  As a consumer the only decision you need to make is whether you buy an item or not, nothing more.  And your decision really has no impact on anyone else, other than perhaps your bank manager / wife / children.

What saddens me is the arrogance (stupidity?) of some people who naively state that Canon (or Nikon, or Sony) should be able to do whatever they personally want without the knowledge of what is involved, either of production process, technology, product planning or anything else really. Ah well!

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jonrobertp
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Re: 70D in trouble ???
In reply to meland, Mar 15, 2013

Glad I'm not in business.   ...just someone who enjoys a narrow part of what business makes...new crop slr cams...and like the horsepower race in the '60s,  ...makes it fun to watch and buy the ones that seem best for me..and my wallet.

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Re: 70D in trouble ???
In reply to jonrobertp, Mar 15, 2013

jonrobertp wrote:

Glad I'm not in business. ...just someone who enjoys a narrow part of what business makes...new crop slr cams...and like the horsepower race in the '60s, ...makes it fun to watch and buy the ones that seem best for me..and my wallet.

To carry that analogy a little further, reading these forums can sometimes be like watching a NASCAR crash occur at a couple hundred miles an hour.  Or maybe it's more like watching a train wreck, I don't know.

When I bought my 7D I almost never came to these forums.  I wasn't in a rush to find out how awesome it was mainly because it was pretty obvious that if it was even as awesome as the current technology would suggest, I was buying it.  There was a little more anticipation with the G1 X because it was a whole new system, so even if the sensor was just as great as the 18MP APS-C of the day I was still curious about AF and the lens and everything else.

I guess if I was still looking for a new camera I might be more critical of Canon out of shear frustration with not being able to buy a new camera today....I mean right now at this very second so I could start shooting with it immediately.  I can understand that kind of frustration after years of putting up with lousy image quality from every P&S I owned before the G1 X.  Now any improvement over what I have is gravy on an already amazing pile of mashed potatos....or icing on a cake....or a serene translucent lake.  Daaaaaaria! (Anybody get the Cake reference there?) 

Man, four shots of espresso gets the blood pumping.

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Steve Balcombe
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Re: Nevermind
In reply to howardroark, Mar 15, 2013

howardroark wrote:

Maybe the 7D will be on an extra-long cycle too, although we can always hope the 7DII and 70D will come out at the same time.

Yes, I've been wondering about that too.

It seems likely that the 70D (if there is one - we don't actually know) will be a significant upgrade to the 60D, and it's been rumoured that it may see a return to a 50D-style body. And surely by now Canon has a superior sensor for us. Add all that together and you have a body which could appeal to 7D owners who are itching to upgrade before the summer - thus stealing customers from the 7DII.

Your best customers are your existing customers, and your best 7DII customers are 7D owners. The surest way for Canon to keep 7D customers on the hook is to announce the 7DII, even if availability is a little way off.

So that's my best guess - 70D with almost immediate availability, 7DII available in 3/4/5 months but both announced next Friday.

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TTMartin
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Re: Nevermind
In reply to Steve Balcombe, Mar 15, 2013

Steve Balcombe wrote:

So that's my best guess - 70D with almost immediate availability, 7DII available in 3/4/5 months but both announced next Friday.

Or it could be all that will be announced will be the Canon T4/1200D.

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Re: Nevermind
In reply to Steve Balcombe, Mar 15, 2013

Steve Balcombe wrote:

howardroark wrote:

Maybe the 7D will be on an extra-long cycle too, although we can always hope the 7DII and 70D will come out at the same time.

Yes, I've been wondering about that too.

It seems likely that the 70D (if there is one - we don't actually know) will be a significant upgrade to the 60D, and it's been rumoured that it may see a return to a 50D-style body. And surely by now Canon has a superior sensor for us. Add all that together and you have a body which could appeal to 7D owners who are itching to upgrade before the summer - thus stealing customers from the 7DII.

I don't see a 70D going back to a 50D-esque body because that would up the price point closer to the 7DMarkII.  However, IF the 7DMarkII's price point goes up also that would make room for a more robust 70D body.  In order for that to happen the 7DMarkII would have to either have a different sensor than the 70D OR it would have to be the rumored mini-1D X.  With a 6D and 5DMarkIII out that don't include vertical grip it seems unlikely anything below the 1D line would include this feature.

Your best customers are your existing customers, and your best 7DII customers are 7D owners. The surest way for Canon to keep 7D customers on the hook is to announce the 7DII, even if availability is a little way off.

So that's my best guess - 70D with almost immediate availability, 7DII available in 3/4/5 months but both announced next Friday.

That would be great.  I'll keep my fingers crossed because I'm anticipating what Canon will do next, not because I think they'll be able to convince me to upgrade this generation.

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Steve Balcombe
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Re: Nevermind
In reply to howardroark, Mar 15, 2013

howardroark wrote:

I don't see a 70D going back to a 50D-esque body because that would up the price point closer to the 7DMarkII. However, IF the 7DMarkII's price point goes up also that would make room for a more robust 70D body. In order for that to happen the 7DMarkII would have to either have a different sensor than the 70D OR it would have to be the rumored mini-1D X. With a 6D and 5DMarkIII out that don't include vertical grip it seems unlikely anything below the 1D line would include this feature.

The 7DII can be a mini-1Dx in performance (especially AF performance) without a vertical grip. That's what I would ideally like to see - basically what I have now in the 7D but brought fully up to date as the flagship 1.6x crop DSLR for 2013-2016. The last thing I want is a bigger, heavier body.

A crop DSLR with a grip wouldn't spiritually be a 7D, but it could be a 9D I guess. Now there's a thought to strike fear into the hearts of all 7D owners - a step back down to a 70D vs a step up to the 9D which is virtually a 1Dx with a crop sensor. The devil and the deep blue sea...

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Re: Nevermind
In reply to Steve Balcombe, Mar 15, 2013

Steve Balcombe wrote:

howardroark wrote:

I don't see a 70D going back to a 50D-esque body because that would up the price point closer to the 7DMarkII. However, IF the 7DMarkII's price point goes up also that would make room for a more robust 70D body. In order for that to happen the 7DMarkII would have to either have a different sensor than the 70D OR it would have to be the rumored mini-1D X. With a 6D and 5DMarkIII out that don't include vertical grip it seems unlikely anything below the 1D line would include this feature.

The 7DII can be a mini-1Dx in performance (especially AF performance) without a vertical grip. That's what I would ideally like to see - basically what I have now in the 7D but brought fully up to date as the flagship 1.6x crop DSLR for 2013-2016. The last thing I want is a bigger, heavier body.

Yeah, I don't want a bigger body either.  I'm not sure the AF could be on par with the 1D X after what I've read about battery voltage affecting AF speed.  The bigger battery on the 1D X produces a higher voltage allowing the AF system to respond more quickly (lens AF motor? don't recall where it comes in to play).  I get your point, though.  I know it's crazy, but I'd like all new bodies to have wi-fi built in so I can link the camera up with my phone or tablet as external controller, viewer, and bakcup device.  I wouldn't use it all the time, but there are times it would come in extremely handy and I don't want to pay for that big, expensive, complicated wireless transmitter when the 6D has so recently included wifi and the app to go with it.

A crop DSLR with a grip wouldn't spiritually be a 7D, but it could be a 9D I guess. Now there's a thought to strike fear into the hearts of all 7D owners - a step back down to a 70D vs a step up to the 9D which is virtually a 1Dx with a crop sensor. The devil and the deep blue sea...

Just remember that the higher the number the lower-end the camera.  In your scenario the 7DMarkII would have to be the 1D X crop version and the 9D would be the gripless underling.  Maybe the 3D would be the crop/gripless version of a 1D X?  Canon is going to have to figure out a new naming convention in the not too distant future.

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jrkliny
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Re: Nevermind
In reply to Steve Balcombe, Mar 15, 2013

It sounds like this thread is turning ugly.  It does not help the strength of your argument to call people with different opinions names such as fools, or attritube their opinions to short attention spans and the need for constant entertainment.

The facts are that Canon is really slow in introducing new APS-C sensor technology.  They have been using the same sensor since 2009.  In the world of cameras and electronics, that is a really long time.

It does appear that Nikon has jumped ahead both with APS-C and FF sensors.  I am not really impressed with Nikon either.  I would like to believe that Canon is going to soon trump the offerings from Nikon or at least catch up with sensor performance.  My conclusion is that manufacturers have reached a plateau in sensor and camera design and future improvements are going to be slower coming and even less impressive.  I am not pointing a finger specifically at Canon, but at this time they do seem to be the slowest in making improvements.

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Re: Nevermind
In reply to jrkliny, Mar 15, 2013

jrkliny wrote:

It sounds like this thread is turning ugly. It does not help the strength of your argument to call people with different opinions names such as fools, or attritube their opinions to short attention spans and the need for constant entertainment.

There aren't very many people talking about Canon scrapping their in-house sensor development but if someone does think they should based on "the same sensor" being used since 2009 then they are either foolish or extremely misinformed. Don't let the 18MP count fool you into thinking nothing on the sensor has changed. Also, don't forget that when the 7D came out with the new 18MP sensor in 2009 it was ahead of Nikon. In mid-to-late 2009 a few things happened: Nikon released APS-C sensors with 10 and 12MP's and Canon released an APS-C sensor with 18MP. In 2010 all of the higher-end Canon crop bodies had that great APS-C sensor and Nikon released their 14.2 and 16.2MP sensors. In 2011 another Nikon body got the 16.2MP sensor. And, yay verily, by the end of 2012 Nikon FINALLY exceeded Canon's 18MP sensor with its 24.1MP sensor. So tell me, in the last four months how is it that a three year stint at the back of the APS-C pack, how is it that this new lead implies that Canon has lost their touch? Four months and suddenly three years of being comfortably ahead has vanished. Not only that, but making design improvements to that tired, old, ahead-of-its-time-if-you-compare-it-to-Nikon sensor have been reduced to them all being "the same sensor"?

I'm really not trying to instigate, but four months of Nikon impressing people with their new APS-C bodies almost all on its own justifies everything I said about the short attention spans of some and the foolishness of a select few (Canon-made sensors are still extremely impressive across the range).

The facts are that Canon is really slow in introducing new APS-C sensor technology. They have been using the same sensor since 2009. In the world of cameras and electronics, that is a really long time.

No, they haven't. And even though it has been changing in other ways than MP count, what about Nikon waiting three whole years to do something about it? If Canon is slow and behind the times then I'd have to say Nikon is petrified and immobile until it is absolutely forced to compete. None of these comparisons are as simple as putting MP against MP and calling a clear winner, so none of these arguments should ever be made, but try to remember that Canon and Nikon are on different schedules and technology development tracks.

It does appear that Nikon has jumped ahead both with APS-C and FF sensors. I am not really impressed with Nikon either. I would like to believe that Canon is going to soon trump the offerings from Nikon or at least catch up with sensor performance. My conclusion is that manufacturers have reached a plateau in sensor and camera design and future improvements are going to be slower coming and even less impressive. I am not pointing a finger specifically at Canon, but at this time they do seem to be the slowest in making improvements.

Yes, they have jumped ahead after spending three years trying to figure out the difference between their butts and a hole in the ground. I kid, but here's my point again: it's about time Nikon took things more seriously and bravo for their advancements. It means my next Canon will be even better than if Nikon curled up in a ball and quit.

Slowest in making improvements? I am genuinely curious about how you justify that statement? Am I missing something? Are you one who prefers 51 focus points in your camera? Are you basing this on their new full-frame bodies? I personally couldn't care less about full frame bodies right now, but Canon certainly does have different priorities thus far in that market segment.

Oh, and I absolutely agree that the pace of improvements is slowing from everyone.  There is a plateau to some extent at the top of a formerly steep improvement curve.  They're going to have to do more than pack more pixels on the sensors and that means new technology.

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