OK Mr Samsung show me the APS-C

Started Mar 5, 2013 | Discussions
ac146
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OK Mr Samsung show me the APS-C
Mar 5, 2013

Hi Mr Samsung!

Nikon has put out their fixed lens APS-C advanced compact. Great idea. An advanced compact with the larger APS-C sensor.

Now wait a minute! Your EX line of advanced compacts look very similar to the Nikon. Maybe I should of said that the other way. But of course they would look like yours. We know the EX's control arrangement works great. We know too that your EXs are well made. Have great lenses. So.... come on. Bring out an EX3 with the larger APS-C that you make. Vertical integration. Keep the costs in-house. Don't buy them from Sony. Replace the lens with a fast 3 to 4x times zoom. Keep the wide at a 24mm equivalent. Its much better than the others 28mm equivalent.

Keep that articulated screen. Showing your technical expertise, why not come out with a hybrid optical finder with basic info as per the X20. Make it hot shoe based, so you can use it on your NX range too!

Sounds like a winner to me.

I have had my EX1 for over 2 years now .... still love it. I've looked at the others. Nothing feels right in my hands. The EX seems so much better made. Is it perfect? NO. A bigger sensor would be a big improvement ....

Thanks

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viking79
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Re: OK Mr Samsung show me the APS-C
In reply to ac146, Mar 5, 2013

I actually like that idea, make a pocketable APS-C camera.  I think there is a market for it.  Nikon obviously thinks so.  When I first saw the Nikon I thought it was crazy, but as the day goes on I realize it is nice because it is the smallest APS-C camera.  The Fuji X100s I would buy instead, but the Nikon is smaller and more pocketable (something I don't value too highly, I like small, but it doesn't have to fit in my pocket)..

Eric

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tecnoworld
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Re: OK Mr Samsung show me the APS-C
In reply to ac146, Mar 5, 2013

I wouldn't be interested in such a camera since the nx200 with the 30mm is pocketable enough for me, and I can use a variety of lenses on it.

Anyay there is a chance that such a camera like the one you describe will exist sooner or later (it could even be the much rumoured nx-r, who knows!).

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tkpenalty
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Re: OK Mr Samsung show me the APS-C
In reply to tecnoworld, Mar 6, 2013

tecnoworld wrote:

I wouldn't be interested in such a camera since the nx200 with the 30mm is pocketable enough for me, and I can use a variety of lenses on it.

Anyay there is a chance that such a camera like the one you describe will exist sooner or later (it could even be the much rumoured nx-r, who knows!).

^this. 
It's kinda pointless for samsung to make a camera like this, when their NX already covers it; a kit of pancakes and a NX1000 does the same job/is as compact. Dunno why you'd buy a NX1000 with a lens fused on it permanently.

Something like the RX1, X100 makes sense; they're unique to the company, and also the market, but this coolpix is somewhat redundant when competitors offer better; NEX, and NX lines.

Nikon only does it so that they dont cannibalise their DSLR sales. If they came out with a NEX, or NX equivalent offering the same performance as a DSLR, I dont think their sales would bode well. I do think sony suffer from that at the moment.

Not saying the coolpix is a bad camera.

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Greynerd
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Re: OK Mr Samsung show me the APS-C
In reply to ac146, Mar 6, 2013

Sony could not get a fast zoom into their 1" sensor compact. How are Samsung going to get an even wider fast 24mm zoom into a compact aps-c sensor camera?

The trend for larger sensors in zoom compacts since the Sony RX100 has not really changed the scene in camera design as we have seen no manufacturers bringing out similar large sensor zoom compacts. 1/1.7" rules the roost.

Samsung are unable to produce any sort of separate viewfinder let alone a hybrid one. I doubt if Samsung have any technical expertise on hot shoe EVF's as their last one for the NX100 was pretty mediocre. Samsung just produce cameras and can rarely to be bothered to provide any accessories for them. If you have found a Samsung made battery charger for the EX1/2 I would love to know, or at least one with a 3rd thermistor sensing pin. They like to show accessories in the manuals but without part numbers as they do not exist.

ac146 wrote:

Hi Mr Samsung!

Nikon has put out their fixed lens APS-C advanced compact. Great idea. An advanced compact with the larger APS-C sensor.

Now wait a minute! Your EX line of advanced compacts look very similar to the Nikon. Maybe I should of said that the other way. But of course they would look like yours. We know the EX's control arrangement works great. We know too that your EXs are well made. Have great lenses. So.... come on. Bring out an EX3 with the larger APS-C that you make. Vertical integration. Keep the costs in-house. Don't buy them from Sony. Replace the lens with a fast 3 to 4x times zoom. Keep the wide at a 24mm equivalent. Its much better than the others 28mm equivalent.

Keep that articulated screen. Showing your technical expertise, why not come out with a hybrid optical finder with basic info as per the X20. Make it hot shoe based, so you can use it on your NX range too!

Sounds like a winner to me.

I have had my EX1 for over 2 years now .... still love it. I've looked at the others. Nothing feels right in my hands. The EX seems so much better made. Is it perfect? NO. A bigger sensor would be a big improvement ....

Thanks

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ET2
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Re: OK Mr Samsung show me the APS-C
In reply to Greynerd, Mar 6, 2013

Greynerd wrote

The trend for larger sensors in zoom compacts since the Sony RX100 has not really changed the scene in camera design as we have seen no manufacturers bringing out similar large sensor zoom compacts. 1/1.7" rules the roost.

It takes a couple of years to design and do lager scale production of the camera. RX100 did completely change the landscape, but it came as a shock to other camera makers. They will release their own 1" cameras, but that takes time. RX100 is not even one year old.

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Draek
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Re: OK Mr Samsung show me the APS-C
In reply to ac146, Mar 6, 2013

Sounds like a winner... except for the part where fast 24-70mm equivalent APS-C lenses are as long as my EX1 is wide, and just as heavy. And as it's already been said, if you're happy with a normal prime then a NX-series with the 30/2 would be more than a good enough replacement.

As a general rule of thumb, I believe a good way to keep expectations for a fixed-lens camera reasonable is to grab any ILC kit, then reduce every dimension by 10% since you don't need to deal with mounts and associated tolerances. It's still a fairly optimistic rule---I don't think the RX1 is 10% smaller in every direction than a Leica M9 with a 35mm Summicron, though there's issues like AF to work out---but it tends to work somewhat well in a "rough estimate" kind of way.

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Greynerd
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Re: OK Mr Samsung show me the APS-C
In reply to ET2, Mar 6, 2013

ET2 wrote:

Greynerd wrote

The trend for larger sensors in zoom compacts since the Sony RX100 has not really changed the scene in camera design as we have seen no manufacturers bringing out similar large sensor zoom compacts. 1/1.7" rules the roost.

It takes a couple of years to design and do lager scale production of the camera. RX100 did completely change the landscape, but it came as a shock to other camera makers. They will release their own 1" cameras, but that takes time. RX100 is not even one year old.

Have any manufacturers actually said it came as a shock to them? I am sure they all know what the others are up to and when I was looking for a fast zoom compact at a reasonable price the 1/1.7" cameras looked fine. Sensor quality is making sensor size less important if you are not after DOF and 1" is still not a large sensor, just a big frog in a little pond.

It is difficult to know the reality when the RX100 is hyped so relentlessly across all the forums.

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ET2
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Re: OK Mr Samsung show me the APS-C
In reply to Greynerd, Mar 6, 2013

Greynerd wrote:

ET2 wrote:

Greynerd wrote

The trend for larger sensors in zoom compacts since the Sony RX100 has not really changed the scene in camera design as we have seen no manufacturers bringing out similar large sensor zoom compacts. 1/1.7" rules the roost.

It takes a couple of years to design and do lager scale production of the camera. RX100 did completely change the landscape, but it came as a shock to other camera makers. They will release their own 1" cameras, but that takes time. RX100 is not even one year old.

Have any manufacturers actually said it came as a shock to them?

You really think that everyone was going to openly announce it came as a shock as they are trying to release and sell their 1/1.17 sensor cameras at the same time?

It is difficult to know the reality when the RX100 is hyped so relentlessly across all the forums.

It's not "hype" RX100 is the same size as S100 (smaller than most compact cameras) but has a sensor that is 4 times larger than S100.

What's hype about that? Canon's S90/S95/S100 were one of the most popular Canon compact cameras (even more than G series, due to pocketable size). There is no hype about the fact that Rx100 kept the same size, same form, but was able to squeeze 4 times bigger sensor That changes the game.  Canon will rethink S series, but obviously it's not magic  It takes time to develop and do large scale production.

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Greynerd
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Re: OK Mr Samsung show me the APS-C
In reply to ET2, Mar 6, 2013

It is hype when you read exactly the same thing posted again and again. We do know all this stuff by heart.

The only trend that I can see is to get faster lens in compacts. My EX2f compliments my m43 stuff nicely so I cannot see the need for the 1" sensor which is neither here nor there. In fact the sensor in the EX2f is so good that my old Pens need primes to keep up with it. Definitely the camera I use indoors with no flash. The f4.9 in the Sony is very unappealing.

Do not forget that Sony are unique in that they are prepared to lose shed loads of money every year so developing exotic one off cameras is no problem. The other makers have to keep their feet on the ground.

ET2 wrote:

Greynerd wrote:

ET2 wrote:

Greynerd wrote

The trend for larger sensors in zoom compacts since the Sony RX100 has not really changed the scene in camera design as we have seen no manufacturers bringing out similar large sensor zoom compacts. 1/1.7" rules the roost.

It takes a couple of years to design and do lager scale production of the camera. RX100 did completely change the landscape, but it came as a shock to other camera makers. They will release their own 1" cameras, but that takes time. RX100 is not even one year old.

Have any manufacturers actually said it came as a shock to them?

You really think that everyone was going to openly announce it came as a shock as they are trying to release and sell their 1/1.17 sensor cameras at the same time?

It is difficult to know the reality when the RX100 is hyped so relentlessly across all the forums.

It's not "hype" RX100 is the same size as S100 (smaller than most compact cameras) but has a sensor that is 4 times larger than S100.

What's hype about that? Canon's S90/S95/S100 were one of the most popular Canon compact cameras (even more than G series, due to pocketable size). There is no hype about the fact that Rx100 kept the same size, same form, but was able to squeeze 4 times bigger sensor That changes the game. Canon will rethink S series, but obviously it's not magic It takes time to develop and do large scale production.

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ET2
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Re: OK Mr Samsung show me the APS-C
In reply to Greynerd, Mar 6, 2013

Greynerd wrote:

It is hype when you read exactly the same thing posted again and again. We do know all this stuff by heart.

Calling facts facts is not hype.

The f4.9 in the Sony is very unappealing.

It's faster than Canon S series cameras (especially S95) that were far more popular than any Samsung camera ever made (combined).

Do not forget that Sony are unique in that they are prepared to lose shed loads of money every year so developing exotic one off cameras is no problem. The other makers have to keep their feet on the ground.

If Sony is losing money on a popular camera like RX100, then Samsung must be losing 10 times more on cameras like EX2. You are blowing hot air out of your ass.

All this is irrelevant discussion anyway. I responded to your original post where you said you haven't seen other companies coming up with 1" sensor compacts. Well, duh. It takes two years to design and mass produce a camera. Wait for Photikna 2014 before you see a response. Until that happens (and it will), RX100 rules that market That was the original topic.

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Ariston
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Re: OK Mr Samsung show me the APS-C
In reply to ET2, Mar 6, 2013

ET2 wrote:

RX100 rules that market That was the original topic.

the original topic was about Samsung releasing a fixed lens APS-C type compact camera, not the 1 inch sensor RX100 that you are hyping here.

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Ariston
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Re: OK Mr Samsung show me the APS-C
In reply to viking79, Mar 6, 2013

this is what I hate about Nikon. they worry too much about the camera might cannibalize their dlsr sales. what they did is excite people only to find out how crippled it is on other significant areas. the specs pretty much tells it all and I'm greatly disappointed.

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Greynerd
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Re: OK Mr Samsung show me the APS-C
In reply to ET2, Mar 6, 2013

We are talking about cameras here. I seemed to have touched a raw nerve. I did not realise the RX100 meant so much to you. To me they are just machines, how insensitive of me.

EX2f is a very nice camera but Samsung may not sell many though sales of cameras are very difficult to assess, especially in the Far East and Russia where Samsung are bigger. Sales are no reflection on quality anyhow. All these cameras nowadays are pretty matched so I do not think any particular model has an overall advantage. Large sensor or fast lens, you takes your choice.

ET2 wrote:

Greynerd wrote:

It is hype when you read exactly the same thing posted again and again. We do know all this stuff by heart.

Calling facts facts is not hype.

The f4.9 in the Sony is very unappealing.

It's faster than Canon S series cameras (especially S95) that were far more popular than any Samsung camera ever made (combined).

Do not forget that Sony are unique in that they are prepared to lose shed loads of money every year so developing exotic one off cameras is no problem. The other makers have to keep their feet on the ground.

If Sony is losing money on a popular camera like RX100, then Samsung must be losing 10 times more on cameras like EX2. You are blowing hot air out of your ass.

All this is irrelevant discussion anyway. I responded to your original post where you said you haven't seen other companies coming up with 1" sensor compacts. Well, duh. It takes two years to design and mass produce a camera. Wait for Photikna 2014 before you see a response. Until that happens (and it will), RX100 rules that market That was the original topic.

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johnznyc
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Re: OK Mr Samsung show me the APS-C
In reply to Draek, Mar 6, 2013

I love the idea of high quality pocket cameras -- I love my Sony RX100 and would sell it tomorrow for an APS-C version if the price was kept to around $1100 and the size between it and the RX1.

Such cameras could be targeted at those Instagrammers with nothing but disposable income and a lack of photographic expertise.

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timedrun
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Re: OK Mr Samsung show me the APS-C
In reply to ac146, Mar 6, 2013

I would like to see an Apsc cam which, rather than either a fixed FL or a continual zoom with an ambitious range, offered two optical zoom states, 24mm equiv and 50mm equiv. Switchable, at full resolution, between these two focal lengths. I think that that is achievable.

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