Samsung NX20 (APS-C) High ISO Noise "Issue"

Started Mar 2, 2013 | Discussions
johnznyc
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Samsung NX20 (APS-C) High ISO Noise "Issue"
Mar 2, 2013

I did a few quick tests with interesting results.  Currently, I only have two lenses (18X55mm Zoom and 20mm Pancake) but there is clearly a noise difference between the two when shooting ISO 3200.

More important, I quickly concluded that Samsung's jpeg engine at high ISO is horrible -- so bad somebody at Samsung needs to be fired for allowing such poor quality software to be publicly released.

In need to go back and re-shoot with a tripod and manual focus, but from my first two shots, it is quite obvious that Samsung's jpeg engine does not remove much color noise.  In addition, luminance  noise is over-processed and there appears to be no sharpening.  Even modest correction in Lightroom produces much better results.  To be completely fair, I will also create jpegs using Samsung's RAW converter.

Usee
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Re: Samsung NX20 (APS-C) High ISO Noise "Issue"
In reply to johnznyc, Mar 2, 2013

A hint with a possible explanation:

http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/Publications/DxOMark-Insights/F-stop-blues

I would guess that some of the things You describe could be due to (in camera) lens correction - in this case maybe vignetting, beside loss of light correction due to (many) lens elements.

-

...well, forget JPG - better try ACDSee Pro, Capture One, Lightroom, or something in conjunction with Your Samsung...

...have a look, how ISO3200 @ 16MP can look like (NX1000 downsized):



ISO3200, NX1000 @ 16 MP for comparison

...not bad in comparison to other cameras if compared at the same true ISO instead of the manufacturer claimed ISO and at the same size. 

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johnznyc
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Re: Samsung NX20 (APS-C) High ISO Noise "Issue"
In reply to Usee, Mar 2, 2013

Usee wrote:

A hint with a possible explanation:

http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/Publications/DxOMark-Insights/F-stop-blues

I would guess that some of the things You describe could be due to (in camera) lens correction - in this case maybe vignetting, beside loss of light correction due to (many) lens elements.

-

...well, forget JPG - better try ACDSee Pro, Capture One, Lightroom, or something in conjunction with Your Samsung...

...have a look, how ISO3200 @ 16MP can look like (NX1000 downsized):



ISO3200, NX1000 @ 16 MP for comparison

...not bad in comparison to other cameras if compared at the same true ISO instead of the manufacturer claimed ISO and at the same size. 

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I agree -- I shoot in raw only then correct.  But I keep seeing these "Samsung high ISO noise" comments and they are simply incorrect, at least regarding the sensor.

At high ISO, raw images are of the same quality to that of an Sony NEX-7, and low ISO a bit better.

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Laurie899
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Re: Samsung NX20 (APS-C) High ISO Noise "Issue"
In reply to Usee, Mar 2, 2013

Usee

The DxO article is very interesting. Have I udersood correctly that the impact of light loss for a given large appeture is greater on higher pixel count sensors? It seems that for large appetures that noise is the price paid however still retaining the advantage of shallow depth of field (not mentioned by DxO)

The resized image (16mp) seems impresively low on noise for 3200. I have wondered, is down sizing a practical method to reduce noise generaly on images. I seem to have read contradictory articles on this

Laurie

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viking79
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Re: Samsung NX20 (APS-C) High ISO Noise "Issue"
In reply to johnznyc, Mar 2, 2013

Exactly, at high ISO the JPEG engine is no good at default settings, especially for people. My wife's face had gray spots all over it from where it went excessive with chroma noise reduction, but as you say, it isn't good at chroma reduction. Basically 800 or 1600 is probably my limit for JPEG. As for sharpening, you can adjust that in "picture wizard", press up on directional controller when you have one highlighted and you can change sharpness, contrast, saturation, and color hue. Not a lot of adjustments, but something that might help. As you say, I just shoot RAW Low ISO the JPEG engine is very good though.

Eric

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Usee
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Re: Samsung NX20 (APS-C) High ISO Noise "Issue"
In reply to Laurie899, Mar 2, 2013

Laurie899 wrote:

Usee

The DxO article is very interesting. Have I udersood correctly that the impact of light loss for a given large appeture is greater on higher pixel count sensors?

Laurie,

as You can see, it depends mainly on the pixel size (sensor size and pixel count),

but also on other things, like pixel and microlens design - beside the used lens and it's construction...

...but in tendency You understood it right.

It seems that for large appetures that noise is the price paid however still retaining the advantage of shallow depth of field (not mentioned by DxO)

Yes, somehow, but it is more that the (light) advantage of larger apertures is partly eaten by the disadvantage of a higher light loss (in conjunction) with smaller pixel size (and geometry).

As You pointed at, the advantage of shallow depth of field remains.

The resized image (16mp) seems impresively low on noise for 3200. I have wondered, is down sizing a practical method to reduce noise generaly on images. I seem to have read contradictory articles on this

Laurie

I would be surprised, if You read contradictory articels on this somewhere - maybe You can hint to some?

Ulrich

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Laurie899
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Re: Samsung NX20 (APS-C) High ISO Noise "Issue"
In reply to Usee, Mar 2, 2013

Ulrich,

Thanks for your response, I can't quote the contradictory article as I did the search months ago and have lost the track and don't remember the logic of the  argument. In practice it is however easy to validate for a specific case.

Laurie

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