Sigma dp3m short impressions

Started Mar 2, 2013 | Discussions
Raist3d
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Sigma dp3m short impressions
Mar 2, 2013

To my incredible surprise a friend of mine, that we have been both chiding each other about who will get a sigma dp Merrill first called me for a coffee and showed me the impossible- A sigma dp3m right in front of me.  He revealed his secret- he just ordered it last Tuesday from Sigma ditectly and got it yesterday.

So a couple of impression from playing with it a scant ten minutes:

- lens seems sharp & good with nice bokeh

- manual focus ring feels real nice.  Wasnt expecting that.  Has enough resistance to feel "class" but not too much. I find it very nice.

- close up/macro distance is nice.  Not super super macro but its nice.

- overall buttons feel "sturdy enough" that they don't feel bad but decent

- image quality - didnt shoot much but seems obviously good with color reproduction akin to what I remember my dp2. (Iso 100). Did not see any weird color artifacts that were obvious to me in the shots I tried. Makes me wonder for aps plot secoi luff Signa had a chance to improve the low level pipeline for it or even the sensor tolerances (hard to tell with not so many shots).

- iso 1600 color (dayligh and shade ) looks O-K

- iso 3200 makes a leap to not much good at all.  Could still use b&w

- iso 6400 in color was pretty horrible and b&w was bad (less horrible but still bad)

All conditions  in good daylight with a mix of light and shade.

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Oliver_B
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Re: Sigma dp3m short impressions
In reply to Raist3d, Mar 2, 2013

Thanks for your impressions. But… aps plot secoi luff Signa?

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Raist3d
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Here...
In reply to Oliver_B, Mar 2, 2013

Oliver_B wrote:

Thanks for your impressions. But… aps plot secoi luff Signa?

Sorry for that, again, phone typing Need to proofread more carefully on the little screen!

" Makes me wonder for aps plot secoi luff Signa had a chance to improve the low level pipeline for it or even the sensor tolerances (hard to tell with not so many shots)."

->

"Makes me wonder if for the DP3M, Sigma had a chance to improve the low level pipeline for it or even the sensor tolerances (hard to tell with not so many shots)."

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Raist3d
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Sample ISO 100 portrait shot - showing lens Bokeh
In reply to Raist3d, Mar 2, 2013

Here's a shot I took - a snap/test for ISO 100.  I think the lens does a very good job and at this ISO it looks great.

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Raist3d
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Sample ISO 4000, B&W
In reply to Raist3d, Mar 2, 2013

In B&W this is quite doable- in this light. Unfortunately I could not test the camera at night which is where this iso makes sense, shot in good light all cameras do much better at high iso. But in color it didn't look very good even in daylight but B&W could yield a good result.

One caveat- there is indeed some banding in the upper right, and I was using banding noise reduction to the max.  When this shows up probably varies a lot by shot and light.

No noise reduction but picking with blue filter. The standard neutral filtering had obviously more noise and red was kinda bad.

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HBowman
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Re: Sigma dp3m short impressions
In reply to Raist3d, Mar 2, 2013

Raist3d wrote:

To my incredible surprise a friend of mine, that we have been both chiding each other about who will get a sigma dp Merrill first called me for a coffee and showed me the impossible- A sigma dp3m right in front of me. He revealed his secret- he just ordered it last Tuesday from Sigma ditectly and got it yesterday.

So a couple of impression from playing with it a scant ten minutes:

- lens seems sharp & good with nice bokeh

- manual focus ring feels real nice. Wasnt expecting that. Has enough resistance to feel "class" but not too much. I find it very nice.

- close up/macro distance is nice. Not super super macro but its nice.

- overall buttons feel "sturdy enough" that they don't feel bad but decent

- image quality - didnt shoot much but seems obviously good with color reproduction akin to what I remember my dp2. (Iso 100). Did not see any weird color artifacts that were obvious to me in the shots I tried. Makes me wonder for aps plot secoi luff Signa had a chance to improve the low level pipeline for it or even the sensor tolerances (hard to tell with not so many shots).

- iso 1600 color (dayligh and shade ) looks O-K

- iso 3200 makes a leap to not much good at all. Could still use b&w

- iso 6400 in color was pretty horrible and b&w was bad (less horrible but still bad)

All conditions in good daylight with a mix of light and shade.

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Raist3d/Ricardo (Photographer, software dev.)- I photograph black cats in coal mines at night...
“The further a society drifts from truth the more it will hate those who speak it.” - George Orwell

At the end I was right : Colors are, so far, more adjusted than other merrill sensors and I think it is partly due to the lens. Can't wait Monday to have my DP3

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One River
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Re: Sample ISO 100 portrait shot - showing lens Bokeh
In reply to Raist3d, Mar 2, 2013

Thanks for writing this up!

I'm not a huge fan of the bokeh in that picture, looks a little sharp and jagged to me. May just get this camera if other samples look better. If not, I'll get the DP2m.

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HBowman
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Re: Sample ISO 100 portrait shot - showing lens Bokeh
In reply to One River, Mar 2, 2013

One River wrote:

Thanks for writing this up!

I'm not a huge fan of the bokeh in that picture, looks a little sharp and jagged to me. May just get this camera if other samples look better. If not, I'll get the DP2m.

And you think the same shoot at the same aperture with the DP2m will output a better bokeh ?? I think you should listen to the one who owned the entire line of sigma DSLR and DP. Fact is that the DP3m output a better bokeh at all aperture, very close to the same result you can have with the 85 f1.4 HSM at 2.8 on the SD1; period/

(coming from a DP2m, SD1, SD15, SD14 owner).

Sharp and jagged ... wow

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jrdigitalart
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Re: Sigma dp3m short impressions
In reply to HBowman, Mar 2, 2013

HBowman wrote:

At the end I was right : Colors are, so far, more adjusted than other merrill sensors and I think it is partly due to the lens. Can't wait Monday to have my DP3

Hulyss, could this mean there might be a firmware update for the SD1M?

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Raist3d
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Re: Sigma dp3m short impressions
In reply to jrdigitalart, Mar 3, 2013

jrdigitalart wrote:

HBowman wrote:

At the end I was right : Colors are, so far, more adjusted than other merrill sensors and I think it is partly due to the lens. Can't wait Monday to have my DP3

Hulyss, could this mean there might be a firmware update for the SD1M?

It is possible but let's keep in mind first- I barely shot much and not side by side.. it's really hard to tell based on the sample data.   It's just a theory I had, a possibility. Let's not make it a claimed fact

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Raist3d
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Re: Sample ISO 100 portrait shot - showing lens Bokeh
In reply to One River, Mar 3, 2013

One River wrote:

Thanks for writing this up!

I'm not a huge fan of the bokeh in that picture, looks a little sharp and jagged to me. May just get this camera if other samples look better. If not, I'll get the DP2m.

You are welcome.

You will be able to get better bokeh with this for portraits than the DP2M me thinks. I don't know, it seems to me to look fine. I would just check out the new Japan DP3M flower shots, those have shallow DOF and give a pretty good idea too.


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One River
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Re: Sample ISO 100 portrait shot - showing lens Bokeh
In reply to HBowman, Mar 3, 2013

HBowman wrote:

One River wrote:

Thanks for writing this up!

I'm not a huge fan of the bokeh in that picture, looks a little sharp and jagged to me. May just get this camera if other samples look better. If not, I'll get the DP2m.

And you think the same shoot at the same aperture with the DP2m will output a better bokeh ??

No, I don't think that and didn't post that.

I think you should listen to the one who owned the entire line of sigma DSLR and DP. Fact is that the DP3m output a better bokeh at all aperture, very close to the same result you can have with the 85 f1.4 HSM at 2.8 on the SD1; period/

Yes, I get that.

Sharp and jagged ... wow

Yes, that's how I see it. Prefaced, of course, by my statement that this is only one picture. I'm patient for more.

I was thinking the DP3m may be a nice portrait camera. To do that, I would want a little bit more of a pleasing bokeh. On the other hand, I know the DP2m would be a great normal lens camera, so I would elect that camera instead. It's about using what is affordable. I can't do both, and my post shouldn't have been interpreted as a knock.

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nandadevieast
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Re: Sigma dp3m short impressions
In reply to HBowman, Mar 3, 2013

HBowman wrote:

Raist3d wrote:

To my incredible surprise a friend of mine, that we have been both chiding each other about who will get a sigma dp Merrill first called me for a coffee and showed me the impossible- A sigma dp3m right in front of me. He revealed his secret- he just ordered it last Tuesday from Sigma ditectly and got it yesterday.

So a couple of impression from playing with it a scant ten minutes:

- lens seems sharp & good with nice bokeh

- manual focus ring feels real nice. Wasnt expecting that. Has enough resistance to feel "class" but not too much. I find it very nice.

- close up/macro distance is nice. Not super super macro but its nice.

- overall buttons feel "sturdy enough" that they don't feel bad but decent

- image quality - didnt shoot much but seems obviously good with color reproduction akin to what I remember my dp2. (Iso 100). Did not see any weird color artifacts that were obvious to me in the shots I tried. Makes me wonder for aps plot secoi luff Signa had a chance to improve the low level pipeline for it or even the sensor tolerances (hard to tell with not so many shots).

- iso 1600 color (dayligh and shade ) looks O-K

- iso 3200 makes a leap to not much good at all. Could still use b&w

- iso 6400 in color was pretty horrible and b&w was bad (less horrible but still bad)

All conditions in good daylight with a mix of light and shade.

-- hide signature --

Raist3d/Ricardo (Photographer, software dev.)- I photograph black cats in coal mines at night...
“The further a society drifts from truth the more it will hate those who speak it.” - George Orwell

At the end I was right : Colors are, so far, more adjusted than other merrill sensors and I think it is partly due to the lens. Can't wait Monday to have my DP3

-- hide signature --

I think more than any other camera in dp series, this one depends a lot on usability...its a short tele lens and i really can't think of shooting without a view finder. Will see.

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HBowman
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Re: Sigma dp3m short impressions
In reply to nandadevieast, Mar 3, 2013

Yes of course, anyone will use it the way they prefer it, with VF or not. For my use this focal is not that long, after all, to shoot without VF. One of my most used portrait lens on my Nikons is a
Nikkor AF 180mm f/2.8 ED IF that I use hand-held around 1/100 so this tiny 75 equivalent doesn't frighten me. It really depend how steady you are.

For the bokeh, well... this is an f2.8 APS-C bokeh. We can't expect more out of this combo, even though the bokeh, as well as the DP2m, is far more pleasing at f3.2 than f2.8. I do not know why, maybe a blade configuration at 2.8 ... I dunno. It react like the exceptional Pentax smc 43mm F1.9 Limited, the character of the lens, bokeh/contrast/saturation is very similar, a little less warm but similar. But the DP3m lens is far more sharper at all aperture.

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Harold66
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a series of very doubtful assertions
In reply to HBowman, Mar 3, 2013

HBowman wrote:

Yes of course, anyone will use it the way they prefer it, with VF or not.

well no, in this case they are not many options. As I said before , the lack of an EVF is going to more of an issue on the dp3m than on the other two DPm's

For my use this focal is not that long, after all, to shoot without VF. One of my most used portrait lens on my Nikons is a
Nikkor AF 180mm f/2.8 ED IF that I use hand-held around 1/100 so this tiny 75 equivalent doesn't frighten me. It really depend how steady you are.

I bet most of your images are not as sharp as they ought to be .this assertion simply does not stand real evidence

For the bokeh, well... this is an f2.8 APS-C bokeh. We can't expect more out of this combo, even though the bokeh, as well as the DP2m, is far more pleasing at f3.2 than f2.8. I do not know why, maybe a blade configuration at 2.8 ... I dunno. It react like the exceptional Pentax smc 43mm F1.9 Limited, the character of the lens, bokeh/contrast/saturation is very similar, a little less warm but similar. But the DP3m lens is far more sharper at all aperture.

more blah-blah on the bokeh. I am not sure how one could see the difference between such two apertures. anyway in most cases , 2.8 is going to be plenty DOF. this is only the forum bloggers who keep going on and on about that bokeh stuff

Real photographers are more concerned by the performance of the bokeh at max aperture and the tonal reproduction of the lens

Harold

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HBowman
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Re: a series of very doubtful assertions
In reply to Harold66, Mar 3, 2013

Do you use any DPm actually or you just say that straight out of your box ?

I say that because first, I'm professional photographer, second none of my pictures are blurred

Fact are fact. If you feal that VF is an issue so don't buy a DP, this camera is simply not for you. And don't come here with your biased assertions.

I take your above post as a pseudo - insult.

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Harold66
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Re: a series of very doubtful assertions
In reply to HBowman, Mar 3, 2013

HBowman wrote:

Do you use any DPm actually or you just say that straight out of your box ?

I actually own and use a dp2m but I am not sure how it is relevant to my points anyway

I say that because first, I'm professional photographer, second none of my pictures are blurred

if you say so . that does not change facts of science . if you are good at hand-holding cameras it is possible that MOST of your pics are reasonably sharp at 1/80 but the fact remains that they would be sharper at higher speeds

you being a " professional " does not change the laws of physics , I am afraid

Fact are fact. If you feal that VF is an issue so don't buy a DP, this camera is simply not for you. And don't come here with your biased assertions.

saying that  a LCD only camera is less pratical for composing is not an opinion it is a FACT. now , some people may be fine  with the LCD only in most situations but in sunny pictures it is a BIG drawback ... and yes  even for a PROFESSIONAL photographer

I take your above post as a pseudo - insult.

-\

well there is nothing I can do about that . everyone should be able to hear some feedback even for a PROFESSIONAL photographer

your post makes me wonder in so many ways ..

Harold

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HBowman
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Re: a series of very doubtful assertions
In reply to Harold66, Mar 3, 2013

I don't get why you come on SIGMA forum to scream about lack of VF then. If you are a "real photographer" I don't even know why you care.

Actually, composing a picture with a DP, on his screen, is very easy. Not for every one but then say that in your case, this is more difficult.

Adapt to your gear. At least my students get it far more quicker than some ppl

I understand that the old school photographers who are familiar with big bright VF or telemeters (I use telemeter camera too) don't cope that much with back screen.

But the new generation adapt very quickly and god ... they are talented ! A tool is a tool.

Back on the topic :

The DP3m is a wonderful tool (or toy).

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Harold66
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Re: a series of very doubtful assertions
In reply to HBowman, Mar 3, 2013

HBowman wrote:

I don't get why you come on SIGMA forum to scream about lack of VF then. If you are a "real photographer" I don't even know why you care.

This is a forum where some people were commenting on a what could should make the dp series better. being a photographer , real or not , does not change the FACT that one can always hope for better tools

you are trying to put something on me because you did not like what I wrote . but others won t be fooled by all of this

maybe it would be more useful if you try to focus on the subject at hand

Actually, composing a picture with a DP, on his screen, is very easy. Not for every one but then say that in your case, this is more difficult.

you are not really making any sense . in bright sunlight , I do not have special eyes . everyone would have a harder time using the LCD

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Richard Franiec
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Re: a series of very doubtful assertions
In reply to HBowman, Mar 3, 2013

Lack of good optical or at least good electronic viewfinder, especially one with diopter correction and focus peaking could be a huge disadvantage for many users.

Personally, I would greatly appreciate additional stabilization by pressing the camera to my face, especially in case of DP cameras which are predominantly low ISO cams with complete lack of built in image stabilization of any kind. This is even more true when focal length increases like in case of DP3M.

For people with less than perfect eyesight, composing and shooting at arm length is sometimes frustrating if not next to impossible. No matter how good and bright the LCD screen is, except for using camera on tripod in Live View mode and image review, there is no advantage of LCD screen over good viewfinder. No amount of adapting on user part will change that IMHO.

You really have to love the camera and the results it produces to put up with limitations such as lack of viewfinder among other things.

Cheers

Richard

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