Olympus E-7 follow up, time to market and other choices

Started Mar 1, 2013 | Discussions
Wyville
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Re: As an outsider...
In reply to alatchin, Mar 5, 2013

alatchin wrote:

Well, I and many others agree with your two cents, but not only for the 90-250, but also for the 50-200 which is f3.5 at 200mm which is pretty good for the lenses pricepoint. Combined with the EX20 I have seen some lovely macros shot with it as well.

Olympus to my mind has 2 challenges, either they need to bring the E-7 level camera down to around $1300-$1500 Or they need to add value, such as you mentioned f8 focus points, better video and connectivity and some other cool abilities... You know one I wish for, is using this new IBIS to do tilt and shift movements!!!! which would be very very cool.

Of course releasing a 300mm f4 and a 100mm macro would also do wonders for the system, especially if they made them fully CDAF compatible so you could use them on both systems with the simple MMF3 adapter.

There are a lot of options Olympus has to "get noticed" again. I recently shot a video of my son at 150mm (300mm in FF) at his swimming lesson, the video is smoooooth with no handshake, the IBIS is a real selling feature, and incredibly innovative.

All the best

Abraham

Indeed, the IBIS is a really good selling point. The main advantage being that when a new system is developed, Olympus (unlike Canon and Nikon) doesn't have to redesign its lenses. Since lenses are the biggest investment and should have many years of use in them, it is much more practical to change the IS system with the camera that you change more frequently anyway.

I would certainly take note if Olympus came up with an E-7 aimed squarely at the 7D market in terms of features, performance and price.

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Raist3d
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Re: As an outsider...
In reply to Wyville, Mar 7, 2013

Wyville wrote:

Raist3d wrote:

And the E-7 is not a camera that will be made to sell the 4/3rds system to new comers anyway, if it comes to exist- just like the E-5- a nice perk for those of us who have 4/3rd lenses and want to continue to use that system.

I use a Canon 7D, 17-55 EF-S and 100-400L, which I find a great setup. Recently though I have had a second look at Olympus and actually think the 4/3 system might be able to compete very well if positioned right. (I'm a natural optimist.)

My point of view is that of the wildlife/bird enthusiast, and what I hear a lot is people wanting a high performance crop camera to provide reach. The 7D does that pretty well, but Canon's new tele primes are extremely expensive and fully focussed on professionals.

With the sensors being developed for high end m4/3 cameras like the E-M5, it might be possible to develop (in parallel) 4/3 cameras that offer the extra AF speed, tracking and buffer that could draw in enthusiasts who are looking for a more compact, high performance, and less expensive alternative to Canon and Nikon.

At least, I would be interested in that. Sooner than spending $10k on a 500/4, I could see myself buying a 90-250/2.8 or 300/2.8 and a high performance 4/3 camera to replace my current setup. Relatively compact, very versatile and great reach. I don't know for sure, but to me that would seem like a very nice wildlife/bird option. Olympus could even make a nice compact 300/4 lens and give their cameras AF at f/8... Now that could really hurt Canon and Nikon.

Just my two cents.

I honestly don't see Canon or Nikon hurting because Olympus has a new camera alone with a new lens that is useful for birding.

We also go back to the main issue: 4/3rds being profitable. Olympus is not in the position to throw away at a "maybe."

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Sierra Dave
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Re: As an outsider...
In reply to Wyville, Mar 10, 2013

Wyville wrote:

Raist3d wrote:

And the E-7 is not a camera that will be made to sell the 4/3rds system to new comers anyway, if it comes to exist- just like the E-5- a nice perk for those of us who have 4/3rd lenses and want to continue to use that system.

I use a Canon 7D, 17-55 EF-S and 100-400L, which I find a great setup. Recently though I have had a second look at Olympus and actually think the 4/3 system might be able to compete very well if positioned right. (I'm a natural optimist.)

My point of view is that of the wildlife/bird enthusiast, and what I hear a lot is people wanting a high performance crop camera to provide reach. The 7D does that pretty well, but Canon's new tele primes are extremely expensive and fully focussed on professionals.

With the sensors being developed for high end m4/3 cameras like the E-M5, it might be possible to develop (in parallel) 4/3 cameras that offer the extra AF speed, tracking and buffer that could draw in enthusiasts who are looking for a more compact, high performance, and less expensive alternative to Canon and Nikon.

Tracking AF speed and accuracy has never been good on 4/3 cameras.  Considering that Olympus had 6 years to do something about it, I think you're being more than a little optimistic to believe that they're capable of doing what you're suggesting, even if the market were there.

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erichK
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Re: Not just possible, but likely...
In reply to Art_P, Jun 2, 2013

Art_P wrote:

Could it be Olympus management was expecting to have a mirrorless camera that worked fully w the 4/3 lenses.  They tuned to development an said 'make it happen'  Well, deadlines came and went, and finally, development has to admit 'Um, we can't make it happen just yet'  Then the company had to redirect development to come up w a new 4/3 camera using the OM-D sensor and tech.  In the mean time, they lost a year or so in coming out w the new camera.

Is that the way it happened?  Well, it's possible.

The limited evidence available does suggest something like thiis. Initially, Watanabe was very careful to both promise a much more "pro" body than the OM-D with much better CAF and to refuse to commit whether it would ve OVF or EVF or some sort of hybrid... then the official release that Olympus would continue to make (or just sell DSLR's).

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bobdant
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Re: As an outsider...
In reply to Wyville, Jun 2, 2013

I sold my 7D setup and have no regrets at all. I do a lot of birding and bring my OMD more with now than I did the 7D.

It also takes some nice photos.

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stimmer
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Raist, I think it will be even better than you think...
In reply to Raist3d, Jun 2, 2013

I believe it will be a micro body, bigger than the omd but significantly bigger than an E-5, and it will be able to use micro and 4/3 lenses.

If that were the case then I would go all in.  I love the EM5 output and I like my micro 4/3 primes just fine.  The only thing missing for me at this point is the ability to use the wonderful 12-60 and 50-200 and 50mm that I have.

The OMD really as transformed my photography in a lot of ways, but the one place it lacks is good zooms.  With a slightly better sensor and the ability to use those great zooms I think it would be a great thing.  I know the lenses take away portability but I really only need those when I'm doing events anyway.

If Olympus can pull this off, and I believe they will pretty soon, I think it would be enough to get them back into the game.

Having Sony as a sensor supplier is absolutely huge.  It's a game changer for Olympus as far as I'm concerned.

The market really needs Olympus around.  I think people should root for them and companies like Fuji.  They bring something different and that's a good thing.

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Raist3d
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Re: Raist, I think it will be even better than you think...
In reply to stimmer, Jun 2, 2013

stimmer wrote:

I believe it will be a micro body, bigger than the omd but significantly bigger than an E-5, and it will be able to use micro and 4/3 lenses.

I take you mean smaller than the E-5.  I am guessing probably something like an E-30 size?

If that were the case then I would go all in.  I love the EM5 output and I like my micro 4/3 primes just fine.  The only thing missing for me at this point is the ability to use the wonderful 12-60 and 50-200 and 50mm that I have.

The OMD really as transformed my photography in a lot of ways, but the one place it lacks is good zooms.  With a slightly better sensor and the ability to use those great zooms I think it would be a great thing.  I know the lenses take away portability but I really only need those when I'm doing events anyway.

If Olympus can pull this off, and I believe they will pretty soon, I think it would be enough to get them back into the game.

I agree they will pull off FT compatibility. I don't think it will "get them back in the game" as far as FT system goes. I view this as a (very nice) backward/legacy compatibility move.

Having Sony as a sensor supplier is absolutely huge.  It's a game changer for Olympus as far as I'm concerned.

The market really needs Olympus around.  I think people should root for them and companies like Fuji.  They bring something different and that's a good thing.

I want to make clear: I have never said nor imply otherwise. I want Olympus around too. To be frank, I am more interested in the Pen5 than the EM5 and whatever else is coming up. Why? Small has always been king with me since a few years ago. I really like the Fuji XE1, but I am open to handle/check out a Pen5.

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Raist3d
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Re: Not just possible, but likely...
In reply to erichK, Jun 2, 2013

erichK wrote:

Art_P wrote:

Could it be Olympus management was expecting to have a mirrorless camera that worked fully w the 4/3 lenses.  They tuned to development an said 'make it happen'  Well, deadlines came and went, and finally, development has to admit 'Um, we can't make it happen just yet'  Then the company had to redirect development to come up w a new 4/3 camera using the OM-D sensor and tech.  In the mean time, they lost a year or so in coming out w the new camera.

Is that the way it happened?  Well, it's possible.

The limited evidence available does suggest something like thiis. Initially, Watanabe was very careful to both promise a much more "pro" body than the OM-D with much better CAF and to refuse to commit whether it would ve OVF or EVF or some sort of hybrid... then the official release that Olympus would continue to make (or just sell DSLR's).

I am not sure there's particular evidence per se in this direction, but I totally agree with both this could easily have happened too.  That's rather typical of software, engineering and marketing decisions to be made.

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erichK
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Great Bustard
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Bingo!
In reply to stimmer, Jun 2, 2013

stimmer wrote:

I believe it will be a micro body, bigger than the omd but significantly [smaller] than an E-5, and it will be able to use micro and 4/3 lenses.

If that were the case then I would go all in.  I love the EM5 output and I like my micro 4/3 primes just fine.  The only thing missing for me at this point is the ability to use the wonderful 12-60 and 50-200 and 50mm that I have.

The OMD really as transformed my photography in a lot of ways, but the one place it lacks is good zooms.  With a slightly better sensor and the ability to use those great zooms I think it would be a great thing.  I know the lenses take away portability but I really only need those when I'm doing events anyway.

If Olympus can pull this off, and I believe they will pretty soon, I think it would be enough to get them back into the game.

Having Sony as a sensor supplier is absolutely huge.  It's a game changer for Olympus as far as I'm concerned.

The market really needs Olympus around.  I think people should root for them and companies like Fuji.  They bring something different and that's a good thing.

This is *exactly* what needs to be done.  However, it is, and has been, my opinion that Olympus should have released an E620 and E5 with the EM5 sensor and IBIS and called them the E720 and E7 when the EM5 came out, then introduced the new camera, as described above, when they could make it work.

It was a massive mistake, in my opinion, for Olympus not to have done this, for reasons we are all painfully aware of.

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Bobby J
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Re: Amen!
In reply to Great Bustard, Jun 2, 2013
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BJM

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stimmer
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I'm digging the EP5 as well...
In reply to Raist3d, Jun 3, 2013

Very nice camera.  The only thing missing is the ability to use the viewfinder and hotshoe triggers or flashes simultaneously.  Other than that it's pretty much the real deal.   I especially love the 1/8000 shutter speed and 1/320 flash sync.  WiFi looks pretty great as well.  Remote triggering the camera with an Iphone is pretty cool.

To be honest I hardly ever use the viewfinder on my EM5, nice as it is.  There are times and places to use it but it's more in the minority.

Kind of helps you keep eye contact with your subjects for sure, and that's a good thing.

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stimmer
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Oh, and I think it will be smaller than the E-30...
In reply to Raist3d, Jun 3, 2013

I think it will be more in the form factor of the EM5, but bigger and more ergonomically correct.  I could be wrong but I think they are going to continue in the Fuji/em5 mindset.  It just sets them apart and sells really well.

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greyowl750
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Sony rebadged?
In reply to Raist3d, Jun 3, 2013

Im not sure that this has not yet been touched on in this thread but..Is there a chance that the "new" E-7 might just end up being a rebadged Sony SLT  with a 4/3 sensor? Since Sony has announced that Olympus is going to supply Sony with glass...it kinda follows that it might be a simple arrangement that would also solve alot of R&D headaches to get the new E-7 to market with a minimum of expense and time. How they will solve the problem of getting the new camera to work with existing lenses might still be a challenge, but Olympus has tossed us all under the bus at least once here.

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Raist3d
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Re: Sony rebadged?
In reply to greyowl750, Jun 3, 2013

greyowl750 wrote:

Im not sure that this has not yet been touched on in this thread but..Is there a chance that the "new" E-7 might just end up being a rebadged Sony SLT  with a 4/3 sensor?

Really doubt it.  Actually I don't see it happening.

Since Sony has announced that Olympus is going to supply Sony with glass...it kinda follows that it might be a simple arrangement that would also solve alot of R&D headaches to get the new E-7 to market with a minimum of expense and time.

Actually it would be quite an effort because you have two different mounts.  It would be easier, I think, to put the new sensor on an E-5 and tune for it than doing what you are suggesting.

How they will solve the problem of getting the new camera to work with existing lenses might still be a challenge, but Olympus has tossed us all under the bus at least once here.

Well, that's why I think it doesn't make sense. What would be the benefit? I think if they were doing that, it would be far easier to put the new sensor on an E-5 type body.

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rovingtim
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Re: Bingo!
In reply to Great Bustard, Jun 3, 2013

Great Bustard wrote:

stimmer wrote:

I believe it will be a micro body, bigger than the omd but significantly [smaller] than an E-5, and it will be able to use micro and 4/3 lenses.

If that were the case then I would go all in.  I love the EM5 output and I like my micro 4/3 primes just fine.  The only thing missing for me at this point is the ability to use the wonderful 12-60 and 50-200 and 50mm that I have.

The OMD really as transformed my photography in a lot of ways, but the one place it lacks is good zooms.  With a slightly better sensor and the ability to use those great zooms I think it would be a great thing.  I know the lenses take away portability but I really only need those when I'm doing events anyway.

If Olympus can pull this off, and I believe they will pretty soon, I think it would be enough to get them back into the game.

Having Sony as a sensor supplier is absolutely huge.  It's a game changer for Olympus as far as I'm concerned.

The market really needs Olympus around.  I think people should root for them and companies like Fuji.  They bring something different and that's a good thing.

This is *exactly* what needs to be done.  However, it is, and has been, my opinion that Olympus should have released an E620 and E5 with the EM5 sensor and IBIS and called them the E720 and E7 when the EM5 came out, then introduced the new camera, as described above, when they could make it work.

This really is deja vu.

When Oly delayed the first E1 replacement, there was a hue and cry to Olympus begging them to drop an updated sensor into the E1. Olympus made an official response saying that doing so is much more difficult than is seems because everything has to be redesigned around the new sensor (bigger buffer, faster processing times, etc). It would be far better to simply redesign the whole camera ... the way they did with the E5

My point is, Oly has officially resisted the idea of dropping new sensors into cameras from the beginning.

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emsig
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Re: Sony rebadged?
In reply to greyowl750, Jun 3, 2013

greyowl750 wrote:

Im not sure that this has not yet been touched on in this thread but..Is there a chance that the "new" E-7 might just end up being a rebadged Sony SLT  with a 4/3 sensor? Since Sony has announced that Olympus is going to supply Sony with glass...it kinda follows that it might be a simple arrangement that would also solve alot of R&D headaches to get the new E-7 to market with a minimum of expense and time. How they will solve the problem of getting the new camera to work with existing lenses might still be a challenge, but Olympus has tossed us all under the bus at least once here.

Hi

That would be a very strange move by Olympus. To my knowlege is Sony giving up SLT-Technology altogether. They believe in a pure mirrorless way because they by now have the necessary means to do it that way.

Olympus may too get some advantage from that Sony knowhow.

Just my observation.

Emilio

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