Fuji X-20 compared to Nikon D50

Started Feb 28, 2013 | Discussions
Canbrit
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Fuji X-20 compared to Nikon D50
Feb 28, 2013

I have just sold my Nikon D50 with the intention of buying a capable smaller replacement.

I would like to know how the Fuji X-20 would compare to the Nikon D50 especially in low light

situations. I was quite happy with the Nikon D50 it was just too big, so if the Fuji X-20 compares

favourably to my old Nikon D50 that would probably be the clincher for me. Low light would be

shooting musicians in club/ pub situations not sporty stuff. I know that the Fuji sensor is smaller

than the Nikon D50 but does the Fuji X 20 come near to or surpass it's output.

Thanks

Nikon D50
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a l b e r t
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Re: Fuji X-20 compared to Nikon D50
In reply to Canbrit, Feb 28, 2013

The short answer is no.  It is simply physics and the X20 sensor just can't compete with an APS-C even it was an older generation.  X20 should work reasonably well up to ISO 800, beyond that, the APS-C will win.

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Midwest
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Re: Fuji X-20 compared to Nikon D50
In reply to Canbrit, Feb 28, 2013

Canbrit wrote:

I know that the Fuji sensor is smaller

than the Nikon D50 but does the Fuji X 20 come near to or surpass it's output.

Not. Even. Close.

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Mr Sincere
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Re: Fuji X-20 compared to Nikon D50
In reply to Canbrit, Feb 28, 2013

Contrary to what the other two replies have implied, it's not at all an unreasonable comparison.  While a current generation APS-C sensor will always beat a current generation compact sensor, the d50 sensor is 7 years old now, and the technology is improving rapidly.

DXOMark.com of course doesn't have any test results for the x20 yet, but they do for the x10 and d50.  Even comparing the x10, you'll find it actually has better dynamic range than the d50.  On the other hand, the d50 is indeed one stop better in the noise department.  But the fast zoom on the x10/x20 could compensate for that, depending on the lenses you've used on your d50 (if we're comparing kit zooms, the x10/x20 wins easily, given that it's more than one stop faster than the kit zoom).  On top of that, it's safe to assume the x20 is going to be better in the noise department than the x10 anyway.

In short, it's close, and the size and convenience of the x20 would probably nudge me in that direction if I were in your shoes.

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Canbrit
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Re: Fuji X-20 compared to Nikon D50
In reply to Mr Sincere, Feb 28, 2013

Thats what I was thinking/hoping that all things considered the X20 would be a good replacement for the D50, given the older D50 sensor compared to the newer X20 sensor. Thanks.

Any more comments would be greatly appreciated, I would really like the Fuji EX1 but I just do not have the cash at this time, what I got for my D50 ,Flash & lens would just about pay for an X20.

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mr moonlight
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Re: Fuji X-20 compared to Nikon D50
In reply to Midwest, Feb 28, 2013

Midwest wrote:

Canbrit wrote:

I know that the Fuji sensor is smaller

than the Nikon D50 but does the Fuji X 20 come near to or surpass it's output.

Not. Even. Close.

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You don't TAKE a photo, you MAKE a photo.

I'm not so sure about that.

I agree with Mr Sincere. The X-trans sensor has really shown some major advancements in how well an APS-C sensor can compete with recent model FF sensors in low light. My Xpro1 puts my X100 to shame at 6400. It's entirely possible that the X-20's new X-trans sensor could out perform the 7 or 8 year old D50 in every area except for thin DOF.

One thing for sure, the X-20 can shoot all the way up to ISO12800 at twice the resolution of the D50 that maxes out at ISO1600. So there's definitely an advantage there.

I don't know if the X-20 will surpass the D50 (up to ISO 1600), but I wouldn't be surprised if it's very close.

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loekids
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Re: Fuji X-20 compared to Nikon D50
In reply to Canbrit, Feb 28, 2013

If you are not after Fuji's color and usually accurate WB, you may also consider Sony RX100 which has 1" sensor. Or if you are looking for APS-C sensor and can live with only one 35mm FL, you may consider a used Fuji X100. The X100 can easily defeat your D50 in low light shots.

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Duri
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Re: Fuji X-20 compared to Nikon D50
In reply to Canbrit, Feb 28, 2013

I don't agree, that sensor size matters that much. Then we can say that APSC X-Trans with 16MP cannot beat Nikon D70 with 6MP... however in this specific case, I assume that D50 wins. I had one (sold and bought S5 Pro) and when I get back to photos I made with D50 they are excellent - crisp, sharp, noise handled very well - Nikon should have made D50x with bigger viewfinder and more focusing points and it would be unbeatable entry level DSLR ...

Based on X10 vs X20 coparison on flicker it seems that both cameras have more or less same level of noise at higher ISO (I checked 1600 and above), while I prefer X10 as it has less distracting noise pattern and less artifacts - but it's my personal subjective feeling. So, if X10 and x20 are almost on par with noise, you can compare D50 ISO test pictures with X10:



X10 ISO1600

D50 ISO1600

X10 review

D50 review

Regards, Duri

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MiTaka
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Re: Fuji X-20 compared to Nikon D50
In reply to Canbrit, Feb 28, 2013

Depends on the lens used on the d50. If You were using a 35 or 50 mm prime wide open the nikon will be 2-3 stops better. If it was with 18-55 I would say fuji will be equal or better. Just comparing sensors the x20 will be weaker at high iso, at least a stop.

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DJF77
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Re: Fuji X-20 compared to Nikon D50
In reply to Duri, Feb 28, 2013

let's face it; the Fuji x20 will probably be enough camera and more than adequate for 90% of us. Unless you're obsessed with peeping those pixels or printing very very large or shooting in candle light? Then I am pretty confident you will be happy with the x20 (or x10)

my suggestion is to take a memory card into a shop (store) and get a few test shot, that's what I like to do if possible before buying. I even did it with x10 out of curiosity and was pleasantly surprised (they have great macro ability aswell).

I think you shoul go for it, the x20 I'm sure will delver the goods & Fuji cameras are so much fun to shoot with the dedicated dials etc.  I would rather have the x10 than D50 any day (but that's just me, an ex d7000  owner now enjoying the XE1 experience.

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a l b e r t
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Re: Fuji X-20 compared to Nikon D50
In reply to mr moonlight, Feb 28, 2013

I agree with Mr Sincere. The X-trans sensor has really shown some major advancements in how well an APS-C sensor can compete with recent model FF sensors in low light. My Xpro1 puts my X100 to shame at 6400. It's entirely possible that the X-20's new X-trans sensor could out perform the 7 or 8 year old D50 in every area except for thin DOF.

Depends on which FF sensor you're talking about. X-Trans to a Canon 5D FF sensor, yes. It is not even close to a FF sensor in Nikon D3s. On D3s, ISO 1600 is like X-Trans ISO 400. My D3s puts my X-Pro1 to shame even at ISO 400.

The real advancement here is actually the core Sony sensor, using a 22um process and with A/D converters embedded on the sensor itself. What Fuji provides is merely a different CFA. With the extra 2 green pixels in a 6x6 grid, san-AA filter, the X-Trans gets you a slightly better luminance signal (hence slightly lower noise than a Sony Bayer sensor), but in return, the red and blue colors are more muted with higher ISO on the X-Trans. There is no free lunch.

Now, it depends on who makes the X20 sensor. I don't think it is by Sony, so it is likely to be an older generation design with the X-Trans CFA. This is why we do not see a significant high ISO improvement on the X20 sample photos so far.

In fact, X20 will need to go up to ISO 800 to achieve DR400%. A sensor's native DR is reduced with higher ISO. Where as X10 can do it with just ISO 100 in M size capture.

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a l b e r t
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Re: Fuji X-20 compared to Nikon D50
In reply to Mr Sincere, Feb 28, 2013

Well, we can take a look at the test scene on DPR:

D50 ISO 3200 shot:

X10 ISO 3200 shot:

The D50 shot has far less noise and richer colors.

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dengx
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Re: Fuji X-20 compared to Nikon D50
In reply to Canbrit, Feb 28, 2013

Canbrit wrote:

I would like to know how the Fuji X-20 would compare to the Nikon D50 especially in low light

Most likely it will be around one stop worse.

Regards

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photoreddi
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Re: Fuji X-20 compared to Nikon D50
In reply to mr moonlight, Feb 28, 2013

mr moonlight wrote:

Midwest wrote:

Canbrit wrote:

I know that the Fuji sensor is smaller

than the Nikon D50 but does the Fuji X 20 come near to or surpass it's output.

Not. Even. Close.

I'm not so sure about that.

Maybe, it's only an ancient D50.

I agree with Mr Sincere. The X-trans sensor has really shown some major advancements in how well an APS-C sensor can compete with recent model FF sensors in low light. My Xpro1 puts my X100 to shame at 6400. It's entirely possible that the X-20's new X-trans sensor could out perform the 7 or 8 year old D50 in every area except for thin DOF.

While the X10's LCD shows a brighter view of subjects in very dim light than the D50, the D50 focuses quickly and reliably where the X10 misfocuses on more than half of the tries. The X20 may do better than the X10 and anyway, the D50 is too old and doesn't offer enough to make it worth using instead of the much lighter X20. But if a more recent DSLR performs sufficiently better, that might tip the scales in its favor.

One thing for sure, the X-20 can shoot all the way up to ISO12800 at twice the resolution of the D50 that maxes out at ISO1600. So there's definitely an advantage there.

Twice the resolution? At low ISO levels, sure. But if the X20 is anything like the X10, there's no resolution left at ISO 12,800 for it to come remotely close to any DSLR that can also shoot at ISO 12,800. Fuji should be ashamed for implementing ISO 12,800, it's that bad.

I don't know if the X-20 will surpass the D50 (up to ISO 1600), but I wouldn't be surprised if it's very close.

For shooting in dim clubs you might want something a little better than ISO 1600 if you want to use reasonably fast shutter speeds. How about the ISO 12,800 that you mentioned. If you consider the D3100, D3200 and D5100, used or refurbished one and two lens kits are available for about the price of the X20. Some cheaper, some a little more expensive, but not tremendously so. Here's how the X10 compares with these three DSLRs. It looks like three possibles and one no-show. Fuji really has its work cut out for it if it wants the X20 to do better than hopeless at ISO 12,800.

The D3100 looks a little better than the D3200. Maybe the D3200 had its NR boosted a little too high. B&H has a D3100 in good condition with a kit lens $380 and a refurbished two lens kit (18-55mm and 55-200mm) for $490, both less expensive than the X20. A refurbished D3200 with the same two lenses is $647, only slightly higher than the cost of the X20, and $490 with just the 18-55mm VR lens. I don't understand why the price of the D3100 and D3200 refurbished two lens kits is the same, but either way they're good buys and well worth the extra size and weight over the X20. They're about the same size and weigh slightly less than the D50, from what I recall.

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mr moonlight
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Re: Fuji X-20 compared to Nikon D50
In reply to photoreddi, Feb 28, 2013

photoreddi wrote:

mr moonlight wrote:

Midwest wrote:

Canbrit wrote:

I know that the Fuji sensor is smaller

than the Nikon D50 but does the Fuji X 20 come near to or surpass it's output.

Not. Even. Close.

I'm not so sure about that.

Maybe, it's only an ancient D50.

I agree with Mr Sincere. The X-trans sensor has really shown some major advancements in how well an APS-C sensor can compete with recent model FF sensors in low light. My Xpro1 puts my X100 to shame at 6400. It's entirely possible that the X-20's new X-trans sensor could out perform the 7 or 8 year old D50 in every area except for thin DOF.

While the X10's LCD shows a brighter view of subjects in very dim light than the D50, the D50 focuses quickly and reliably where the X10 misfocuses on more than half of the tries. The X20 may do better than the X10 and anyway, the D50 is too old and doesn't offer enough to make it worth using instead of the much lighter X20. But if a more recent DSLR performs sufficiently better, that might tip the scales in its favor.

One thing for sure, the X-20 can shoot all the way up to ISO12800 at twice the resolution of the D50 that maxes out at ISO1600. So there's definitely an advantage there.

Twice the resolution? At low ISO levels, sure. But if the X20 is anything like the X10, there's no resolution left at ISO 12,800 for it to come remotely close to any DSLR that can also shoot at ISO 12,800. Fuji should be ashamed for implementing ISO 12,800, it's that bad.

I don't know if the X-20 will surpass the D50 (up to ISO 1600), but I wouldn't be surprised if it's very close.

For shooting in dim clubs you might want something a little better than ISO 1600 if you want to use reasonably fast shutter speeds. How about the ISO 12,800 that you mentioned. If you consider the D3100, D3200 and D5100, used or refurbished one and two lens kits are available for about the price of the X20. Some cheaper, some a little more expensive, but not tremendously so. Here's how the X10 compares with these three DSLRs. It looks like three possibles and one no-show. Fuji really has its work cut out for it if it wants the X20 to do better than hopeless at ISO 12,800.

The D3100 looks a little better than the D3200. Maybe the D3200 had its NR boosted a little too high. B&H has a D3100 in good condition with a kit lens $380 and a refurbished two lens kit (18-55mm and 55-200mm) for $490, both less expensive than the X20. A refurbished D3200 with the same two lenses is $647, only slightly higher than the cost of the X20, and $490 with just the 18-55mm VR lens. I don't understand why the price of the D3100 and D3200 refurbished two lens kits is the same, but either way they're good buys and well worth the extra size and weight over the X20. They're about the same size and weigh slightly less than the D50, from what I recall.

True, but the OP is just comparing to the D50 he owns, not other options he can get for about the same price or even less than the X-20.

There's nothing wrong with having higher ISO settings than the camera can handle. It just gives us another option. We know it's not going to look great, but if it means getting the shot or not, I'll take getting the shot at ISO12800 even if it looks bad. You can't put on a faster piece of glass, so you're stuck with what you got.

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mr moonlight
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Re: Fuji X-20 compared to Nikon D50
In reply to a l b e r t, Feb 28, 2013

a l b e r t wrote:

Well, we can take a look at the test scene on DPR:

D50 ISO 3200 shot:

X10 ISO 3200 shot:

The D50 shot has far less noise and richer colors.

You got the Nikon D5000 not the D50. The D50's max ISO is 1600.

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vrot01
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Old Fuji F30 compared to Nikon D50
In reply to Canbrit, Feb 28, 2013

This is from the DPR Fuji F30 review... the 7 yr old f30 is close to the d50...

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/fujifilmf30/14

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photoreddi
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Re: Fuji X-20 compared to Nikon D50
In reply to mr moonlight, Feb 28, 2013

mr moonlight wrote:

...

For shooting in dim clubs you might want something a little better than ISO 1600 if you want to use reasonably fast shutter speeds. How about the ISO 12,800 that you mentioned. If you consider the D3100, D3200 and D5100, used or refurbished one and two lens kits are available for about the price of the X20. Some cheaper, some a little more expensive, but not tremendously so. Here's how the X10 compares with these three DSLRs. It looks like three possibles and one no-show. Fuji really has its work cut out for it if it wants the X20 to do better than hopeless at ISO 12,800.

The D3100 looks a little better than the D3200. Maybe the D3200 had its NR boosted a little too high. B&H has a D3100 in good condition with a kit lens $380 and a refurbished two lens kit (18-55mm and 55-200mm) for $490, both less expensive than the X20. A refurbished D3200 with the same two lenses is $647, only slightly higher than the cost of the X20, and $490 with just the 18-55mm VR lens. I don't understand why the price of the D3100 and D3200 refurbished two lens kits is the same, but either way they're good buys and well worth the extra size and weight over the X20. They're about the same size and weigh slightly less than the D50, from what I recall.

True, but the OP is just comparing to the D50 he owns, not other options he can get for about the same price or even less than the X-20.

Prices were only mentioned because the OP wasn't sure if the X20 would do the job, that he'd appreciate the light weight of the X20 but he would really prefer the X-E1. The X-E1 would be an excellent choice and would be a great camera for shooting in the low light of clubs but he said that he couldn't afford the price.

Any more comments would be greatly appreciated, I would really like the Fuji EX1 but I just do not have the cash at this time, what I got for my D50 ,Flash & lens would just about pay for an X20.

The difference between the X-E1 and the X20 is that with the X-E1's small 18-55mm kit lens, it's twice as large and weighs twice as much as the X20, and costs a whopping $1,400, way more than twice the $600 price of the X20. Enter the D3100 and D3200. With a similar 18-55mm kit lens (the Nikon version isn't as fast as the Fuji kit lens) these Nikon DSLRs give you near X-E1 performance for not much more than half the price of the X20. Also, if you want a longer focal length, the 55-200mm lens adds only a little more than another $100 to the cost. The X-E1 has no other zoom lenses and the only lens B&H shows that has a greater focal length than the 18-55mm kit lens is the 60mm macro lens, and any of Fuji's other lenses is going to cost $600 or more. That's quite a limitation, when the X10 and X20 have a maximum focal length nearly twice as long as you can get with the X-E1, and the two DSLRs go nearly twice as long as the X10/X20 for hundreds of dollars less.

There's nothing wrong with having higher ISO settings than the camera can handle. It just gives us another option. We know it's not going to look great, but if it means getting the shot or not, I'll take getting the shot at ISO12800 even if it looks bad. You can't put on a faster piece of glass, so you're stuck with what you got.

Sorry, but you need to look at the X10's ISO 12,800 shot again. It's not that it doesn't look great, it's that it's horrible, totally unusable. Yes, you can't use faster glass so you're stuck with a high ISO that's completely unacceptable. But like the X-E1, the two Nikon DSLRs can accept faster glass. A really nice one is the very sharp 35mm f/1.8 Nikkor which at $197 is 1/3 the price of any of Fuji's faster lenses. So the OP can get the X20 if he wishes, but he may come to regret that decision when he sees that it produces images only a very small step up from the ancient D50 that he just sold.

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LaFonte
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Re: Fuji X-20 compared to Nikon D50
In reply to Midwest, Feb 28, 2013

Midwest wrote:

Canbrit wrote:

I know that the Fuji sensor is smaller

than the Nikon D50 but does the Fuji X 20 come near to or surpass it's output.

Not. Even. Close.

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That is actually wrong. It would be close. Not as good, but close. Every new generation of cameras will surpass the old one on smaller sensor. RX100 can take images that are pretty close. So will x-20.  But of course if pixel peeping on A/B is the main thrill then just forget it. People will always find flaws on pixel peeping, yet never actually print the image or do anything worthy with it.  On screen or on print the images will look pretty much identical. You may find just the operation be different.

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LaFonte
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Re: Fuji X-20 compared to Nikon D50
In reply to Canbrit, Feb 28, 2013

Canbrit wrote:

Thats what I was thinking/hoping that all things considered the X20 would be a good replacement for the D50, given the older D50 sensor compared to the newer X20 sensor. Thanks.

Any more comments would be greatly appreciated, I would really like the Fuji EX1 but I just do not have the cash at this time, what I got for my D50 ,Flash & lens would just about pay for an X20.

You are replacing dslr with PS and that will always have its toll, but the gain in portability will outweight this for most amateur/semi pro situations. I wouldn't worry about image quality. By all standards the image quality of higher end 2012-2013 PS is outstanding. I gave up on dslr two years ago with x100 and I am not going back even if the speed is not the same. For all my situations the speed is all right, but the portability is a huge, huge plus. The x20 will be great.

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