Minolta Colors, 28-75 2.8?

Started Feb 25, 2013 | Discussions
decimusmaximus7
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Minolta Colors, 28-75 2.8?
Feb 25, 2013

When people refer to Minolta colors, does this also include the Konica Minolta 28-75 2.8 D?

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GuyMcKie
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Re: Minolta Colors, 28-75 2.8?
In reply to decimusmaximus7, Feb 25, 2013

Those typical minolta colors and rendering are for the lenses of the beercan period and some later restyled versions. It is the combination of deep colors, bokeh, medium contrast and a very light glow that creates that typical minolta look, somewhat similar to Leica lenses.

This lens is a rebadged Tamron lens, with better coatings than the previous generation of lenses.

Colors are warmer and contrast is higher than with minolta lenses. Most users rate sharpness as good and colors as nice.

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Poulsan
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Re: Minolta Colors, 28-75 2.8?
In reply to decimusmaximus7, Feb 25, 2013

decimusmaximus7 wrote:

When people refer to Minolta colors, does this also include the Konica Minolta 28-75 2.8 D?

This was taken with Minolta 28-75 2.8, and KM 7D. Perhaps it gives an impression of 'Minolta colours'.

Poul

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decimusmaximus7
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Re: Minolta Colors, 28-75 2.8?
In reply to Poulsan, Feb 25, 2013

Which short 2.8 zoom do you guys think would match the closest in colors to the black first version 80-200 2.8?

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pako
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Re: Minolta Colors, 28-75 2.8?
In reply to decimusmaximus7, Feb 25, 2013

decimusmaximus7 wrote:

When people refer to Minolta colors, does this also include the Konica Minolta 28-75 2.8 D?

Minolta was specially consistent with color, contrast and general look in all it lenses (while shift on color and contrast can be found on lenses from other manufacturers)

But don't worry: in the digital era it doesn't matters that much.

Regards

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GuyMcKie
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Re: Minolta Colors, 28-75 2.8?
In reply to decimusmaximus7, Feb 25, 2013

I used a Tamron SP 35-105 2.8 and found it close to my black 80-200 APO. A little warmer than the minolta. Good on FF, but high distortion on the wide end. Excellent on APS-C.

Take a look at the lens reviews and picture samples on dyxum to compare candidates.

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Clyde Thomas
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Re: Minolta Colors, 28-75 2.8?
In reply to decimusmaximus7, Feb 25, 2013

The 28-75/2.8 is a fine match for the original Mino 80-200/2.8.  They are both a little yellow, and a little brighter than other Mino's.  The 85/1.4 and 35/1.4 are also good matches, being also a little brighter and little yellow.

I also agree that the Tamron 35-105/2.8 SP is a good close match, although a touch more red.

I've owned/used multiple copies of all of these lenses for 20+ years.  Most other original Mino's are like low contrast versions of high contrast Leica R lenses.  Neutral to cold in color balance.  Very deep green, purple.  Some prefer warmer lenses for people photos.  I personally prefer the neutral/cold tones.

At least that's how my eyes see these things.  Others are sure to see differently, as they should.

All great lenses so have fun with whatever you have!

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Bart7D
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Re: Minolta Colors, 28-75 2.8?
In reply to Poulsan, Feb 25, 2013

The Tamron 28-75 and the Min. 80-200: my most used lenses!

Bart

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theswede
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Re: Minolta Colors, 28-75 2.8?
In reply to decimusmaximus7, Feb 25, 2013

decimusmaximus7 wrote:

When people refer to Minolta colors, does this also include the Konica Minolta 28-75 2.8 D?

Quite likely. But as mentioned it doesn't make much difference these days. The auto WB adjust of a modern SLT will pretty much remove any slight color difference. What matters is sharpness and bokeh, and you have that aplenty with that lense, if it's in good condition. Some consider the bokeh a bit more busy, but you can make your own mind up on that.

Jesper

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decimusmaximus7
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Re: Minolta Colors, 28-75 2.8?
In reply to Clyde Thomas, Feb 25, 2013

Thanks Clyde,

So you are saying, for example, the original 28-85 and 70-210 F4 are more cold/neutral, than the 28-75 2.8 and 80-200 2.8, which would be brighter and more yellow?

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DavieK
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Re: Minolta Colors, 28-75 2.8?
In reply to decimusmaximus7, Feb 25, 2013

The whole 1985/6 series of lenses (before any rubber grips appeared on the focusing ring, original beercan style) are closely matched in colour balance. I shot a sequence starting with the 16mm f/2.8 and ending with the 500mm f/8, using all the lenses, on slide film for an AV dissolve show and a book feature. Minolta supplied the entire set of lenses at the time.

The 35-70mm f/4, 28-135mm and 70-210mm f/4 are lower in contrast than the other lenses, mainly because of general veiling glare (diffused flare - present even when there isn't a big patch of it). The reason appears to have been that while Minolta had access to multicoating, they never used it just to kill flare and raise contrast the way Pentax (SMC) and Zeiss (T*) did. Instead, they used the different coatings from single to multi layer to balance colour transmission across the lens range. The combination of very high resolution, low overall contrast, good microcontrast and matched colour made the lenses have one unique 'look' on film. But their contrast does vary, some like the 100-200mm f/4.5 and the 200mm f/2.8 APO have quite amazingly crisp high contrast.

From 1987 onwards, more hybrid aspheric elements were introduced (plastic) and it became very difficult to balance the colour without too much loss of contrast. Then, with the introduction of more zooms (notably the first 100-300mm f/4.5-5.6) Minolta bought in lens designs offered to them by Tokina (Hoya). The best known of these is the 100-400mm APO, for which they signed an exclusive deal apparently, meaning this lens was never made for any other brand and also never appeared as a Tokina. Other kit lenses were being subbed out to contractors, along with the lowest grade stuff. They had entirely different coatings. So from some point during the 'i' series period - and definitely by the 'xi' period - there was no longer any such thing as a Minolta look except in those lenses which survived, and other new lenses from the same Minolta plant.

And... none of it matters much now, digital conversions and WB can imitate almost anything. Also, some of the surviving original designs (16mm f2.8, 20mm f2.8, 28mm f2.8, 50mm f1.4, 50 and 100mm f2.8 macros etc) were given new coatings by Sony to improve flare freedom and overall contrast. Also, to remove internal reflection between the sensor and rear element of the lens, something you may find with classic Minolta glass.

David

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Clyde Thomas
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Re: Minolta Colors, 28-75 2.8?
In reply to decimusmaximus7, Feb 25, 2013

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying.  And I disagree with others here that say it doesn't matter, or that "all" first generation Mino's were the same.  Check this Artaphot link for comparisons of Mino 200/2.8 vs 70-200SSM vs 80-200/2.8.  Link HERE.

One can clearly see the brighter, more yellow color, similar to the SSM, compared with the 200/2.8APO.  The 200APO is the "pinnacle" of "Minolta Color", and similar to all the f/2.0 and f/2.8 primes... and even the 600/4, and all the beercan generation zooms.  But the 80-200 has more modern rendering and matches the color and density/contrast of the 35/1.4 and 85/1.4 Mino's.  They will be a closer match for the 28-75.  Heck, I can get the yellow color in any of the old Minoltas just by adding a Tamron 1.4x converter.  But it will lower contrast.

I would never use the 35/1.4 on a job with the 100/2.  The renderings are too different, and the inconsistency would drive me nuts.  I'd either use the 28/2 and 35/2 with the 100/2, or use the 85/1.4 and 80-200/2.8 with the 35/1.4.

For instance, see THIS LINK for comparison between the 35/1.4 vs the 35/2.  Notice the f/1.4 is about 1/3 stop brighter at EVERY aperture, and a little more yellow, making for brighter greens.  Even when the 35/1.4 is adjusted down to match the 35/2 density, the greens are still a bit more bright and yellow.

These tests are identical to my own personal experience owning all of this stuff from 16 to 600.  I have no problem with the results, but I do take issue with Mungers assessment that the 35/2 is "better" than the 35/1.4.  I don't think it is at all, and he bases that assessment on one criteria.  But the 35/1.4 surpasses the 35/2 on far corner sharpness, and provides a more even sharpness across the field.  The 35/1.4 is also much better at close focus sharpness.  Both lenses fabulous, and I use them both for different purposes.

Yes, one can correct for a few colors in photoshop.  But not all the colors/contrast come into line.  And it's a hassle to correct everything just for consistency.  I'd rather just shoot lenses that matched in the first place to quicken the editing process preparing for client batch files.

Your Tammy/KM/SAM 28-75 is a good match for any version of Mino 80-200/2.8 or 70-200/2.8 SSM.  My only problem with that lens is that it focuses in the opposite direction from every other Alpha lens ever made.  Never understood that.

Regards,

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DavieK
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Re: Minolta Colors, 28-75 2.8?
In reply to Clyde Thomas, Feb 26, 2013

Clyde - I can answer your focus question. They couldn't fix it. The 17-35mm, made at the same time and also based on a Tamron original, was switched to focus the 'right' way for Minolta. But Minolta and Tamron (spoken to at photokina 2004 I think, where their stands were about 50m apart) told me it was impossible to change the 28-75mm or they would have done so.

Even though they were willing to say this, neither company was prepared to admit the Minolta was made by Tamron Figure that out...

David

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Clyde Thomas
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Re: Minolta Colors, 28-75 2.8?
In reply to DavieK, Feb 26, 2013

Hi David. That's really interesting... their reasoning of "impossible". I just don't know what to say about that... other than, the "impossible" may not be a physical issue, but rather a contractual issue. Were this Tammy/KM/SAM lens able to focus in the proper Alpha direction, then it would pose a greater threat to the higher end lenses. Personally, I find it "impossible" to accept a physical constraint as a real answer.

I remember when Tamron and Tokina both offered two versions of some lenses that focused properly for Pentax/Nikon, and also Alpha/Canon/Leica/Contax/Olympus. What could there possibly be in it other than shifting a gear and milling a proper helicoid? Well, it would cause guys like me not to purchase it in favor of the Mino G or ZA premiums. I can't have one lens which doesn't act like all the others. I'm a simple linear guy, and I always manual focus.

Oh well, thanks for that answer though. It's the first time I've ever had anyone offer up some reasoning.  I totally believe that's what they told you.  I totally believe they denied any cooperation.  Corporate ridiculocity at its finest.

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