D600 with D7100 as Back up

Started Feb 23, 2013 | Discussions
vbuhay
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D600 with D7100 as Back up
Feb 23, 2013

I have started to really move more into the Nikon System. I am a longtime Pentax Shooter, recently bought into the Nikon FF system with the D600, 24/70 f2.8, 80/200 f2/8, 85 f1.8G. Primarily an event/wedding landscape type photography, now being pulled to engagement, maternity and newborn, but still a part time pro only.

My current back up is the Pentax K5 with 43mm, 35mm, 16-50mm, 50-135mm, 50-500mm (surfing actions stuff) 70-200 f2.8, 105 f2.8 Macro.

With the release of the D7100 it got me thinking of acquiring this with perhaps the 14-24 plus the Sigma 50-500  (sell/trade all of the Pentaxes) to move me completely into the Nikon system.

To all of the experienced FF users, what are the Pros and Cons of the FF with DX back up.

Pros for me would be - All SD cards, same work Flow and Handling of the D600/D7100 files and gear. Faster and better AF than the K5 vs the D7100 (for the action shots), Same flash system for both the D600/D7100.

Cons:???

Any insight to this future strategy would be very valuable to me. Thanks in advance.

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McCool69
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Re: D600 with D7100 as Back up
In reply to vbuhay, Feb 23, 2013

I think this would be a great combination, and the D7100 also gives you quite a bit of extra reach in the tele end when/if you need it.

I only have a D600 now, but used to have my old D300s as a backup/complimentary camera to my D700 and I felt that it worked out great.

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GregF
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Re: D600 with D7100 as Back up
In reply to vbuhay, Feb 23, 2013

vbuhay wrote:

I have started to really move more into the Nikon System. I am a longtime Pentax Shooter, recently bought into the Nikon FF system with the D600, 24/70 f2.8, 80/200 f2/8, 85 f1.8G. Primarily an event/wedding landscape type photography, now being pulled to engagement, maternity and newborn, but still a part time pro only.

My current back up is the Pentax K5 with 43mm, 35mm, 16-50mm, 50-135mm, 50-500mm (surfing actions stuff) 70-200 f2.8, 105 f2.8 Macro.

With the release of the D7100 it got me thinking of acquiring this with perhaps the 14-24 plus the Sigma 50-500 (sell/trade all of the Pentaxes) to move me completely into the Nikon system.

To all of the experienced FF users, what are the Pros and Cons of the FF with DX back up.

Pros for me would be - All SD cards, same work Flow and Handling of the D600/D7100 files and gear. Faster and better AF than the K5 vs the D7100 (for the action shots), Same flash system for both the D600/D7100.

Cons:???

Any insight to this future strategy would be very valuable to me. Thanks in advance.

I think the D7100 will turn out to be the better action camera, with 1/8000th shutter speed, 51 point AF that does a proper job of coverage on the frame (even in non-crop mode), and optional 7fps/1.3x crop mode (2x relative to FF).  For me a nitpick would be if the grip is the same as the D7000; smaller/narrower than the D600 and I think that one is a bit tight...Nikon could take a lesson from Canon on the grip.

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glo
glo
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Re: D600 with D7100 as Back up
In reply to vbuhay, Feb 23, 2013

No cons, just preference. Your combo would work fine, especially if you do wildlife and need extra reach - the 7100 will be your go-to there. All my bodies are FX and I prefer it that way because I shoot two to three bodies at once when on location. In my case, since I have some big glass, I don't really miss the DX reach advantage.

glo

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j_photo
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Re: D600 with D7100 as Back up
In reply to vbuhay, Feb 23, 2013

vbuhay wrote:

I have started to really move more into the Nikon System. I am a longtime Pentax Shooter, recently bought into the Nikon FF system with the D600, 24/70 f2.8, 80/200 f2/8, 85 f1.8G. Primarily an event/wedding landscape type photography, now being pulled to engagement, maternity and newborn, but still a part time pro only.

My current back up is the Pentax K5 with 43mm, 35mm, 16-50mm, 50-135mm, 50-500mm (surfing actions stuff) 70-200 f2.8, 105 f2.8 Macro.

With the release of the D7100 it got me thinking of acquiring this with perhaps the 14-24 plus the Sigma 50-500 (sell/trade all of the Pentaxes) to move me completely into the Nikon system.

To all of the experienced FF users, what are the Pros and Cons of the FF with DX back up.

Pros for me would be - All SD cards, same work Flow and Handling of the D600/D7100 files and gear. Faster and better AF than the K5 vs the D7100 (for the action shots), Same flash system for both the D600/D7100.

Cons:???

Any insight to this future strategy would be very valuable to me. Thanks in advance.

I've been shooting events with the D800 and D7000. The combination seems to work pretty well. I appreciate the lighter weight of the DX camera when lugging both. I've been shooting the 24-70 on the D800 and an 85 on the D7000, which gets me a roughly 130 mm effective focal length.

I suppose if I could afford another FX body that would be fine too. But what I've got is working fine for now.

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vbuhay
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Re: D600 with D7100 as Back up
In reply to glo, Feb 23, 2013

I have not heard any Cons on using FX Glass on DX Bodies? I am kind of concern with any possisble IQ degradation??? I have no information to base this concern however. Anybody have any input on this would be appreciated.

BTW I think the D600 and D7100 uses the same Batteries- another Pro, unfortunately they use different Battery Grips - why Nikon????

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vbuhay
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Re: D600 with D7100 as Back up
In reply to j_photo, Feb 23, 2013

Thanks J-Photo,  can you use any of the flash units interchageably? I am currently  in the market for those. Also have you notice any difference in the IQ of Using FX Lenses on DX Bodies (other than the Angle of view) and AF speed or accuracy?

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Cliff Fujii
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Re: D600 with D7100 as Back up
In reply to vbuhay, Feb 23, 2013

Well, you would need to get another set of lenses because in order to get the same perspective and field of view of the FX camera, you will need to use a different lens on the DX camera because of the crop factor increase. If you are going to do this for a living, I suggest you look into a D800 as your primary camera and use the D600 as your backup or get another D600 as your backup.

One of the good things about the D800 is that it has an exposure lattitude of 14 stops at ISO100. That might save you from having to use HDR on the DX camera to equal the wide dynamic range of the D800. I also like the low noise of the FX sensor when compared to the DX sensor at the same ISO. I think that DXO made that pretty clear.

If you do decide to get the D800, please check the Technical Reference Manual, available from Nikonusa.com, as to the lenses that take advantage of the D800 body's 36MP sensor.

What you really need to do is to get one of the real sharp Nikon lenses, like the 105mm Micro, and learn to use it. It's really good for portrait use because it's so sharp. Learning to use Photoshop CS6 is also a good way to post process your images. You might want to invest in a monitor that will accurately display Adobe RGB images if you are going to print your images.

Remember, you need to master the three phases of photography:

1) taking the image (work your subject, images are cheap)

2) post processing (make it look like you envisioned it)

3) print the image (something to sell to the customer, this is where the rubber meets the road)

Many photographers don't print the image but if you think about it, we live in a reflective world. Everything you see with your eyes are reflective. When looking at an image on a monitor, you are looking at a transmissive image not a reflective image. The best way that you, as an artist, can produce your image is to print the image and mount it.

good luck,

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Cliff

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Petroglyph
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Re: D600 with D7100 as Back up
In reply to vbuhay, Feb 23, 2013

I think a lot of us fall into your situation by coming from higher end DX cameras.  It isn't a bad compromise in my opinion.  DX gets some extra reach with higher resolution/speed and FX covers the rest of the gamut.  I like your thinking as to the combo as well.  Might want to wait before you give up on Pentax though and see what they come out with about April if the rumour is correct.  We may all be surprised by them and you already seem to have some glass.  Also waiting allows any QC to work through the system. 

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vbuhay
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Re: D600 with D7100 as Back up
In reply to Cliff Fujii, Feb 23, 2013

Cliff,

Very interesting perspective and comments. Let me just say that I have thought of the D800 since it had come out. That could have been my first choice for a first FX camera had it not been for the CF card storage - I don't like it due to size, and bent pins, price etc....then there is the 36Mp files. I am sure I could overcome these negatives but then why not just get another D600? Well, I am still new to my current D600 - its currently at Nikon in Wilshire, here in CA for a sensor clean up. I am not 100% happy with the AF on it yet (maybe just need more shooting time with it), one of the reason I would like to see the 7100 was the AF (D4 algorithm) and the 51 focus points etc...

I am also aware of the difference in optical perspective of the different lenses FX vs DX. Infact, I have several Pentax 645 (medium format) lenses that I use with the D600 using a non optical adapter - works quite well manually for Macro or portraits. By the way the 120mm 645 is actually 75mm in FX and 112.5mm in DX.

As far as IQ, DR of the D800 - I agree with you 100%, I would like to see some test on this from the 7100. As far as Noise, with the development of these new sensors, I have seen quiet a big improvement from one generation to the next - again, I will be looking at test of the 7100 sensor which in theory is a smaller version of the D800e, right? I guess we will see shortly.

Regarding the 3 Phases of Digital Photography -

1) The Capture. After 20+ years as an enthusiast I would be surprise if I am at 50% of where I can be , how to see and use light- lots more to learn in this area - and that is half the enjoyment of this craft.

2) Post Processing (it used to be Darkroom work) I would say I am less than 50% - Using CS5, Lightroom 4.3 + Topaz Suite....  Because of my Background as an electrical engineer - I think I get a lot of enjoyment on this phase than the other two. Again more learning in this area.

3) Printing - this used to be alot more fun and enthusiam for me when I did my best work in the Darkroom. There was a time when I could look at a B/W negative and tell you the right exposure time and f stop to use for the correct print. Nowadays, I send most of my commercial output in the lab. For most part the resukts are happy accidents? Well as close to what my monitor shows anyway. I think that I need to beef up more in this area and learn more in how to see art, like you said reflective art.

In the not too distant future, I intend to devote most of my efforts toward photography after my "working" days are over.

All of these are just preparations. The goal is 1-2 prints that can hang in a gallery per year!

Thanks for your insights.

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vbuhay
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Re: D600 with D7100 as Back up
In reply to Petroglyph, Feb 23, 2013

Petroglyph,

I hear you and I will be hanging on to my Pentax gear as long as I can, but it won't be forever. If they would only come up with a Pentax D600 with a completely new AF system (ala D7100), I would be one of the first one to jump in. I will most likely wait even after they announce the Next Generation DSLR from Pentax be it DX or FX.

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rhlpetrus
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I can't see a single con
In reply to vbuhay, Feb 23, 2013

I use the D7000 and it's an excellent camera, the D7100 is looking even better, with pro-level AF, same as the D4's (better than the one in the D600), no AA filter system, 24MP and better high ISo than D7000. Actually, w/o the AA filter, I'm guessing you'll get more detail at base ISO, and almost same high ISO performance, compared to the D600's high ISO, since the more detail will compensate for some more noise.

And all your lenses will work on it.

Go for it!

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rhlpetrus
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Addendum Re: I can't see a single con
In reply to rhlpetrus, Feb 23, 2013

rhlpetrus wrote:

I use the D7000 and it's an excellent camera, the D7100 is looking even better, with pro-level AF, same as the D4's (better than the one in the D600), no AA filter system, 24MP and better high ISo than D7000. Actually, w/o the AA filter, I'm guessing you'll get more detail at base ISO, and almost same high ISO performance, compared to the D600's high ISO, since the more detail will compensate for some more noise.

And all your lenses will work on it.

Go for it!

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Renato. http://www.flickr.com/photos/rhlpedrosa/ OnExposure member http://www.onexposure.net/ Good shooting and good luck (after Ed Murrow)

And if you ever need a camera for action, the D600 will be the back-up :-D.

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Renato. http://www.flickr.com/photos/rhlpedrosa/ OnExposure member http://www.onexposure.net/ Good shooting and good luck (after Ed Murrow)

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vbuhay
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Re: Addendum Re: I can't see a single con
In reply to rhlpetrus, Feb 23, 2013

Thanks for the affirmation. That is exactly what I was thinking when I saw the specs for the D7100. Now I need to see some test images (more) and the user test reviews. It should be fun at the next US Open of Surfing here in So Cal next August + 2 destination weddings in September, Cabo in July Yosemite, Antelope Canyon reshoot ++++.

Thanks

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vbuhay
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Re: D600 with D7100 as Back up
In reply to GregF, Feb 23, 2013

I think you are right - the d7100 will be the action Camera and the D600 Wedding/Event/Landscape etc. theys both use the same battery but they use different Battery Grip??? I can live with that.

Thanks

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FrankoManno
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Re: Addendum Re: I can't see a single con
In reply to vbuhay, Feb 23, 2013

I have the D600 and a D90 and am considering selling the D90 to put money toward the 7100 - but only if its low-light performance is improved - lower noise at high ISO (at least 3200) and faster focusing in low light - not just on paper, in real use. Then I would use it for available light sports.

So I'm not buying a 7100 until it's been out a while and some hands-on tests. The D600 will work just fine for most everything and its Auto DX mode is great for the DX lenses. I have a Sigma 17-50 2.8 OS and Nikkor DX 55-300 4/5.6 VR that work fine on the D600, and in fact, the photos I get look better in the D600 than on the D90.

The only regret with the D600 is closing down aperture and seeing spots from f11-22. I have a few, not a lot of spots, but clean the sensor regularly. If you are shooting landscape that's a concern. With Nikon's recent admission that it's a problem, hopefully that means some free cleanings, but we'll see. Otherwise I love my D600. I may skip the 7100 and wait for a mirrorless, or buy another fast lens instead.

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Duncan C
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Different framing is the biggest con I can see
In reply to vbuhay, Feb 23, 2013

vbuhay wrote:

I have started to really move more into the Nikon System. I am a longtime Pentax Shooter, recently bought into the Nikon FF system with the D600, 24/70 f2.8, 80/200 f2/8, 85 f1.8G. Primarily an event/wedding landscape type photography, now being pulled to engagement, maternity and newborn, but still a part time pro only.

My current back up is the Pentax K5 with 43mm, 35mm, 16-50mm, 50-135mm, 50-500mm (surfing actions stuff) 70-200 f2.8, 105 f2.8 Macro.

With the release of the D7100 it got me thinking of acquiring this with perhaps the 14-24 plus the Sigma 50-500 (sell/trade all of the Pentaxes) to move me completely into the Nikon system.

To all of the experienced FF users, what are the Pros and Cons of the FF with DX back up.

Pros for me would be - All SD cards, same work Flow and Handling of the D600/D7100 files and gear. Faster and better AF than the K5 vs the D7100 (for the action shots), Same flash system for both the D600/D7100.

Cons:???

Any insight to this future strategy would be very valuable to me. Thanks in advance.

I've been shooting with DX bodies long enough (D1X, then a D200) that when I got a D600 last December, it was and adjustment.

Your working ranges will be different, and if your D600 dies in the middle of a wedding, the adjustment could be a problem. Then to the differences in AF, menu systems, etc could throw you. You'd want to work with both cameras all the time so you could "hot swap" between them without missing a beat, and be comfortable with the different framing of FX vs DX, plus all the other differences between the bodies.

Make sure you have at least one lens in your kit that's wide enough to get group shots in the DX body. You might want to get a DX-only wide angle lens, since those are cheaper and lighter than their FX equivalents. I have a Tamron 28-105 constant 2.8 lens that I love, but on my DX bodies the widest 28 mm focal length is not much wider than a 50 mm on an FX body. That was an adjustment when I first moved to digital and the DX format.

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vbuhay
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Re: Different framing is the biggest con I can see
In reply to Duncan C, Feb 23, 2013

Duncan,

Yes, it will be an adjustment if the D600 dies in the middle of a shoot. I understand that if I am shooting at let say 24mm in FX it will be like shooting a 35mm (approx) on a DX right? I actually created a chart below to get a mental picture of what it would be like.

FX   vs  DX     FV Comparison

Field of View (degrees angle)

Focal  Length                              FX                    DX

500 mm                                     5                      3

400 mm                                     6                      4

300 mm                                     8                      5

200 mm                                     12                    8

135 mm                                     18                     12

85 mm                                      28                      18

70 mm                                       34                     22

50 mm                                       47                     31

35 mm                                       62                     44

28 mm                                        74                     53

24 mm                                       84                      61

20 mm                                       94                      71

16 mm                                       107                    83

14 mm                                       114                    90

12 mm                                        122                   98

8 mm                                          143                   115

I think I will have to get this cheat sheet taped on my bag if I go further with my plans.

Lets hope that the D7100 comes in with favorable actual user test IQ and AF that is.

Thanks again for your input.

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vbuhay
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Re: Addendum Re: I can't see a single con
In reply to FrankoManno, Feb 23, 2013

Frank,

I think I agree with what your are saying. This whole idea was precipitated due to the fact that with my dual set up of the Nikon(FX) and Pentax(DX) there is very little overlap of functionality between the two system. Yes, I can use lenses with adapter in manual only, it become tedious at best - and I probably won't do that in a paid shoot - too risky. Maybe the Flash system with some wireless adapters. With the 2 types of shooting I like to do, Event/Wedding/Landscape  vs Action/Wildlife etc. you would need two different system or go the D4 way (maybe, there will still be compromises). So here we are, if this pans out I will be getting the D7100 + 14-24 + 50-500 Sigma, sell out my lovely Pentax glasses and cameras. Can't wait for the 7100 actual reviews.

Last event I did was a coporate Xmas party - 200-300 people , boy did that D600 -20/74 really shine. I am still getting kudos from those pictures. I can't wait to use my new 85 f1.8g, now I should be getting all the spots cleaned out on the D600 by Nikon here in Wilshire Service center.

Thanks

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j_photo
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Re: D600 with D7100 as Back up
In reply to vbuhay, Feb 23, 2013

vbuhay wrote:

Thanks J-Photo, can you use any of the flash units interchageably? I am currently in the market for those. Also have you notice any difference in the IQ of Using FX Lenses on DX Bodies (other than the Angle of view) and AF speed or accuracy?

The flash units are fully interchangeable. The IQ on the D800 is vastly superior to the D7000 when the same lens is used on both. I was surprised how big the difference is.

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