13x19, 17x22 ready fit framing options

Started Feb 22, 2013 | Discussions
smertz
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Re: 13x19, 17x22 ready fit framing options
In reply to Danny Michael, Mar 1, 2013

Danny Michael, thanks for reminding us (me) of framedestination. Worth checking out.

SmertZ

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soloryb
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Re: 13x19, 17x22 ready fit framing options
In reply to smertz, Mar 1, 2013

`1smertz wrote:

Yep, I've been framing (formerly in a shop) my own stuff for decades and the discrepancy between the 3:2 aspect ratio and the standard frame sizes can be maddening. I don't like to crop my shots outside a 3:2 constrained space. Seems like the only 3:2 frames are up in the poster sizes for borderless applications. One would think the standard dimensions would change already.

OP what do you want to do?

SmertZ

What about a 20" X 28" frame with a 16" X 24" (3:2) print? That's not poster-size if you're using a mat board cut-out and giving you a 2" border.

To name a few more:

8X10 frame for  a 4X6 print giving a 2" border.

11X14 frame for a 6X9 print giving a 2.5" border.

Why don't you like to crop your shots out of a 3:2 constrained space? Shouldn't the image (or part of therein) determine the crop and the crop ratio employed for aesthetic objectives?

It's just my opinion but sticking to a 3:2 ratio can detrimentally constrain photography.

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smertz
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Re: 13x19, 17x22 ready fit framing options
In reply to soloryb, Mar 1, 2013

soloryb wrote:

What about a 20" X 28" frame with a 16" X 24" (3:2) print? That's not poster-size if you're using a mat board cut-out and giving you a 2" border.

It is all about framing aesthetics. As with photography, there are some guidelines that tend to be useful. Generally, the larger the print, the larger the border  To me, a print of the above size simply looks lousy framed with such a small border. Of course a killer print overcomes lesser issues of presentation for the most part.

To name a few more:

8X10 frame for a 4X6 print giving a 2" border.

To me that looks lousy too.

11X14 frame for a 6X9 print giving a 2.5" border.

That looks OK.

Why don't you like to crop your shots out of a 3:2 constrained space? Shouldn't the image (or part of therein) determine the crop and the crop ratio employed for aesthetic objectives?

Yes we are in agreement. When I shoot, I'm very mindful of the viewfinder frame. I'm not dogmatic about cropping, and will go square when it looks better. When I have shot in 645 or 4x5 formats I like to stay with those aspect ratios as well. I'm more interested in image content than the wrapper.

But my work style has integrated the 3:2 aspect ratio  and it has served me well.

It's just my opinion but sticking to a 3:2 ratio can detrimentally constrain photography.

My opinion is that any aspect ratio constrains the frame out of necessity and it has little to do with photography.

SmertZ

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soloryb
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Re: 13x19, 17x22 ready fit framing options
In reply to smertz, Mar 1, 2013

Thanks for the advice.

I see we mostly agree about cropping.

I'm still trying to work out the best border size for a given print size. I've read that the border should generally be much larger than the frame edge width, and can actually see this in some of my mounted prints.  I also read what you said about larger borders for larger prints. But, the business of what looks good in terms of border size vs. print size seems so arbitrary.  I notice that you like the look of a 6"X9" print surrounded with a 2.5" border, but why does this look good whereas a 4X5 print surrounded by a 2" border would look lousy?

Is there a formula at work here? I'm getting ready to cut my own mats and openings and want to get things right without wasting a ton of expensive material on unforced errors.

soloryb

smertz wrote:

soloryb wrote:

What about a 20" X 28" frame with a 16" X 24" (3:2) print? That's not poster-size if you're using a mat board cut-out and giving you a 2" border.

It is all about framing aesthetics. As with photography, there are some guidelines that tend to be useful. Generally, the larger the print, the larger the border To me, a print of the above size simply looks lousy framed with such a small border. Of course a killer print overcomes lesser issues of presentation for the most part.

To name a few more:

8X10 frame for a 4X6 print giving a 2" border.

To me that looks lousy too.

11X14 frame for a 6X9 print giving a 2.5" border.

That looks OK.

Why don't you like to crop your shots out of a 3:2 constrained space? Shouldn't the image (or part of therein) determine the crop and the crop ratio employed for aesthetic objectives?

Yes we are in agreement. When I shoot, I'm very mindful of the viewfinder frame. I'm not dogmatic about cropping, and will go square when it looks better. When I have shot in 645 or 4x5 formats I like to stay with those aspect ratios as well. I'm more interested in image content than the wrapper.

But my work style has integrated the 3:2 aspect ratio and it has served me well.

It's just my opinion but sticking to a 3:2 ratio can detrimentally constrain photography.

My opinion is that any aspect ratio constrains the frame out of necessity and it has little to do with photography.

SmertZ

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Pete Berry
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Re: 13x19, 17x22 ready fit framing options
In reply to smertz, Mar 1, 2013

smertz wrote:

Danny Michael, thanks for reminding us (me) of framedestination. Worth checking out.

SmertZ

+1

Checked it out, and they do indeed have 13x19 and 17x22 ready fits, which would fit the OP's rather unusual plan to frame paper size identical to frame size. The vendor suggests using their product mat-less as far as I can see, with the utility of removing a side and replacing the print. But with spring-loaded back holding print against glass, would seem that removing the back is the only (and easiest way, IMO). The problem here is a print directly against glass without a mat - not a good idea.

Maybe the OP plans on using a single mat with small margins and just replacing the print periodically. I can see the utility of this, as if the paper fits snugly (but not too snuggly!) in the frame, hinging/acrylic corners or other fixation to back or mat are not needed.

Pete

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soloryb
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Re: 13x19, 17x22 ready fit framing options
In reply to Pete Berry, Mar 1, 2013

Pete Berry wrote:

smertz wrote:

Danny Michael, thanks for reminding us (me) of framedestination. Worth checking out.

SmertZ

+1

Checked it out, and they do indeed have 13x19 and 17x22 ready fits, which would fit the OP's rather unusual plan to frame paper size identical to frame size. The vendor suggests using their product mat-less as far as I can see, with the utility of removing a side and replacing the print. But with spring-loaded back holding print against glass, would seem that removing the back is the only (and easiest way, IMO). The problem here is a print directly against glass without a mat - not a good idea.

Maybe the OP plans on using a single mat with small margins and just replacing the print periodically. I can see the utility of this, as if the paper fits snugly (but not too snuggly!) in the frame, hinging/acrylic corners or other fixation to back or mat are not needed.

Pete

If the OP uses plastic frame spacers (Econospacers for example) then the photo wouldn't be right against the glass.

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detectorman
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Re: 13x19, 17x22 ready fit framing options
In reply to smertz, Mar 1, 2013

For smaller prints, the best deal I;ve seen is at Costco. They have two 11x14 frames, with mats cut for an 8x10 print for about $20. Wood or black color choice. They also have 8x10 frames with a mat cut for a 5x7 print. Same choices.

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Danny Michael
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Re: 13x19, 17x22 ready fit framing options
In reply to Pete Berry, Mar 2, 2013

The FDI frames will hold mattes, you just have to order them separately. To change prints you remove 2 screws in the frame and slide the old print out, new one in. Since this is basically exactly what the OP is looking for, I didn't see much need to elaborate.

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designdog
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Re: 13x19, 17x22 ready fit framing options
In reply to smertz, Mar 4, 2013

OP here once more.

Man, I can't seem to express what I am after, so I will do it in baby steps:

  1. buy a frame that is 13x19 or 17x22 (preferred)
  2. take it apart
  3. put in a mat that is also 13x19 or 17x22, that has a cutout (or whatever the correct term is), of, let us say, 2 inches into the mat, or 11x17, 15x20 as an opening
  4. print, on the 13x19 or 17x22 sized Epson paper, an image that corresponds with the opening — leaving a 1/4" bleed
  5. put it back together, including the mat and the image (no tape, everything fits)
  6. hang it, then redo the process with a different photo in a few months.

Maybe the cutting and taping is a lot easier than I am making it out to be, to the extent that no one really does it the way I am describing...

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Pete Berry
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Re: 13x19, 17x22 ready fit framing options
In reply to designdog, Mar 5, 2013

designdog wrote:

OP here once more.

Man, I can't seem to express what I am after, so I will do it in baby steps:

  1. buy a frame that is 13x19 or 17x22 (preferred)
  2. take it apart
  3. put in a mat that is also 13x19 or 17x22, that has a cutout (or whatever the correct term is), of, let us say, 2 inches into the mat, or 11x17, 15x20 as an opening
  4. print, on the 13x19 or 17x22 sized Epson paper, an image that corresponds with the opening — leaving a 1/4" bleed
  5. put it back together, including the mat and the image (no tape, everything fits)
  6. hang it, then redo the process with a different photo in a few months.

Maybe the cutting and taping is a lot easier than I am making it out to be, to the extent that no one really does it the way I am describing...

Yeah, that's what I finally came up with as a poss. three days ago. I think what threw me was your 2nd post with "cut a mat" in the "Not" list.

"Maybe the OP plans on using a single mat with small margins and just replacing the print periodically. I can see the utility of this, as if the paper fits snugly (but not too snuggly!) in the frame, hinging/acrylic corners or other fixation to back or mat are not needed."

The 17x22 size sounds intriguing - might give it a go, as 15x20 image size fits my 4/3 ratio images perfectly, and switching out simple as it could be.

PB

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xrdbear
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Re: 13x19, 17x22 ready fit framing options
In reply to designdog, Mar 5, 2013

designdog wrote:

OP here once more.

Man, I can't seem to express what I am after, so I will do it in baby steps:

  1. buy a frame that is 13x19 or 17x22 (preferred)
  2. take it apart
  3. put in a mat that is also 13x19 or 17x22, that has a cutout (or whatever the correct term is), of, let us say, 2 inches into the mat, or 11x17, 15x20 as an opening
  4. print, on the 13x19 or 17x22 sized Epson paper, an image that corresponds with the opening — leaving a 1/4" bleed
  5. put it back together, including the mat and the image (no tape, everything fits)
  6. hang it, then redo the process with a different photo in a few months.

Maybe the cutting and taping is a lot easier than I am making it out to be, to the extent that no one really does it the way I am describing...

Hopefully there should not be any more misunderstandings. Someone suggested www.framedestination.com and I can see that they do 13x19 frames and mats separately at 13x19 with a choice of aperture sizes. Some companies offer frames specifically designed for regular changing of the contents. They are often described as poster frames or snap frames and may be availble to take mats.

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Brian
Fine Art Print sales of the Isle of Skye at:
http://www.eyeofskye.co.uk/

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