Rumours and speculation

I think Michael has fair comment that his initial feel-good thread was hijacked into something else so it is best that a new thread be started on rumours and speculations.

Rumours come in several consistencies and should always be labelled with their class, I think I try and label whatever I talk about and do not try and shift them higher up the ladder of credibility.  If I talk about them too much and thereby give speculation more credence than it should then I apologise to whomever I might give offence.

If I try and provide some reasoning then it is only sounding out probabilities supposing that there is some strength in what has been rumoured.

Ranking - approximate in descending order:

The best rumour is the announcement of a shipping date or product in hand

Official corporate announcement of a product to be made with anticipated availability date

Dummy products at trade shows

Words of senior officials at interview with reputable journalists on record

Insider corporate sponsored leaks (authorised or "unofficial")

Unauthorised leaks

Unguarded comments by those that might know "off the record"

Leaked industrial espionage

Retailer says "rep" said

Dredging the internet for clues (of any of the above)

Malicious leaks of half understood facts from unreliable sources

Gossip, well founded or otherwise

Pure made up speculation for devilment or otherwise

People are hungry for information and seize on any information from any source but it can hardly be bad if it is qualified unless it is pure fantasy or one of the last three on the list.

http://www.mirrorlessrumors.com/leica-m10-with-sony-bw-sensor-and-ricoh-collaboration/

This gets a bit closer but my mind still remembers some comment on Ricoh actually being said more clearly to be part-assembling for Leica at their plant in China.  I was not smoking something.

The record shows that Harold, GXRUser and AndrewTree were also involved at an earlier time in a discussion.  The reality is that the rumour was more than likely not correct.

Further research shows a report about a 10-day strike by the 1,300 employees at the Ricoh Elmex factory at Shenzen in China about 25/10/10 (reported).  Amongst other causes for the dispute was some problem about the amalgamation with an even larger nearby Ricoh plant.

http://www.ricoh.com.cn/about/ricoh_china/course.html

• Local corporation Ricoh Hong Kong Ltd Ricoh (Hong Kong) Co., Ltd. was established in Hong Kong in1978.
• Manufacturing company established in Shenzhen in1991,production copiers, laser printers, Ricoh (Shenzhen) Industrial Development Co., Ltd.
• Company was founded in Shanghai in1993,production fax (joint venture) Co., Ltd. Shanghai Ricoh Facsimile
• Management the photonics technology (Shanghai) Co., Ltd. established in1995. [Now known as reason of Optoelectronics Technology (China) Co., Ltd.
• With the successful merging of Gestetner1996China Co., Ltd., for Gestetner Office Equipment (China) Co., Limited / Gestetner Zhanjiang. Production, sales in one of the sole proprietorship
• Ricoh International (Shanghai) Co., Ltd. was established in1997in the Shanghai Waigaoqiao Free Trade Zone. Imports since 2000, sales of digital copiers
• 1998Industrial Development (Shenzhen) Co., Ltd., Ricoh copier manufacturers of all Japanese-owned, accumulated copier production first exceeded one million mark
• Established in2001, theTohoku Ricoh Printing Equipment Co., Ltd. (Fuzhou).
• The Ricoh Software Technology (Shanghai) Co., Ltd., established in2002 and theShanghai Ricoh Facsimile fax Limited cumulative production exceeded the 1 million mark.
• Ricoh (China) Investment Co., Ltd. was established in Shanghai in2003to co-ordinate the management of the marketing work in mainland China. 
  Shanghai Ricoh Digital Equipment Co., Ltd. was established in Shanghai, the manufacture of Ricoh office equipment.
• Ricoh Software Research Center (Beijing) Co., Ltd. was established in Beijing in2004, the development of related software
• 2005 of theRicoh Elemex (Shenzhen) Technology Co., Ltd., established in Shenzhen production copiers optional.

Yes, Ricoh does have a plant in China, I think they can squeeze the production of a few cameras in there somewhere.

But Michael is quite right - copiers are the business, there is little interest in cameras.

Another report suggested (1/5/2011) with earthquakes and tsunamis that the projected annual profit might be reduced from US$860 million to US$774 million.  Cameras?  Petty cash.

--
Tom Caldwell

Tom:

I am guilty of participating in a discussion.

It was not perpetuating a rumor. I did speculate once.

Mostly I listed my desires in what I wanted in a follow up to the GXR.

(EVF, KAF mount, Q mount)

Regarding this source:

http://www.mirrorlessrumors.com/leica-m10-with-sony-bw-sensor-and-ricoh-collaboration/

"Under the very unreliable rumors that are floating around the web the most interesting two are..."

Unreliable?

Doesn't that say it all?

The Leica Monochrom used the same ol' sensor found in the M9 (not a Sony sensor as reported by this unreliable rumour) tweaked for, well, monochrome use. No colour filter array. Rumour: incorrect

Ricoh component of the story - never proven one way or the other but given there's been nothing to back it up in the intervening year, can we call it bunk or debunked?

Claiming Leica hooked up with martians would be almost as equally credible and far more "interesting".

Will this thread be used for the reporting of new rumours? If so, I shall start the countless minions toiling away in my underground lair to work on a whopper forthwith.

I harbour no ill will.

That thread, like countless others here, was doomed the moment it was created.

The M240's and Olympus's EVF is made by Ricoh.

OMG, Tom. You need to find some other way to wave the Ricoh flag.

--
Godfrey
http://godfreydigiorgi.posterous.com

Has anyone noticed this one before?

http://ricehigh.blogspot.com/2011/11/ricoh-employs-pentax-sr-technology-in.html

--
Tom Caldwell

Sorry, I did notice your name when we were discussing this China thing a while - back I think that we decided that there was nothing in it.  My main reasoning is that I seem to have otherwise been the only person that remembered that there was in fact some earlier discussion on this made in China thing.  That's all, lest I consider myself completely away with the fairies.

--
Tom Caldwell

Grin,

Now we need to know where that rumour came from!

More seriously ~ then why can't Ricoh improve their VF2?

--
Tom Caldwell

Me neither, even though my hide is a little tender, I guess I deserved it.

I guess when there is nothing really to talk about then a bit of a slap up breaks the monotony.

Fortunately/unfortunately the need to refresh my memory on how I had been so convinced to lead everyone astray with wild-eyed speculation.

I have debunked the little sub-contract assembly line that assembles Ricoh cameras on demand theory.  Ricoh in fact has a number of very large factories in China.  Even the little Elemex factory in Shenzen with 1,300 reported employees has more than the entire staff of Leica Camera (1,257 in last official report).  But nary a Ricoh digital camera plant in sight -  must be fitted up in a small annex under a tarpaulin.

I also found what appears to be a image stabilisation system for a GXR(?) module which I have posted a link to elsewhere on this thread.  The diagram is very obviously a modular component.

I suppose a link to a patent granted is another class of rumour - it may never be built.

--
Tom Caldwell

Open to offers Godfrey, post some more of your great images ....

--
Tom Caldwell

This from a reputable Japanese Camera Magazine (Nippon Camera, monthly):

I added the theatrics on my iPhone, this is for those who read gossip instead of taking photos... they know who they are... at least this one says this is their best educated guess based on the recent release trends... no guarantees of any kind. The magazine foresees a GRD V release in September...

Personally I think Ricoh is on life support and the sooner the plug is pulled the better... let them go with dignity... but hey that's just me!

https://www.google.com/search?q=リコーカメラの噂

according to google translate this is ricoh camera rumors in japanese...

so when I  googled it i got few  pages. Not sure if there is anything new and noteworthy there but I am sick of this 10 months old stupidity resurfacing at every thread.

so those that have time in their hands, enjoy...

chrome has automatic translation option.

ricoh kamera fununu

apparently in Swahili....

sky is the limit, and google is your friend...

The GRD cameras will always be some of my absolute favorites. I hope Ricoh can do something to revive themselves, now for M users this is not an issue, they have what they need. Pick up an extra body while they are cheap and keep it in storage, I am not sure I would wait for one to be made with a VF built in although it would be nice. Shame I discovered Ricoh so late but glad I discovered them at all (Part of the problem was they left the US market for some years). Long Live Ricoh, stronger and better than ever, but while they are being revived I am wandering off to browse 2 fuji's which may make me happy no matter what the naysayers say.

kamera fununu - love it!

All makers need to inject some fununu into their products.

http://www.ricohelemex.co.jp/en/about/Business/precision.html

The English language web pages for Ricoh Elemex do not mention camera equipment at all as one of their lines of business. They do list:

• On their "Information Equipment" page, guess what: Copiers and other Office products (collation, document feeders, printers)
• And on the precision equipment page, A magnetic induction rechargeable watch system, watch movements, and an automatic assembly line for watches (something they may resell to others?), and,
• A "scalp cleaner", and an oral irrigator, and,
• Precision automotive parts, and,
• Miscellaneous other small metal parts, and,
• Water and gas metering and related safety devices

It looks to me that this division started many decades ago, probably at the time was a single product company (water and/or gas meters?) which branched out into producing other items requiring some amount of industrial precision. They've probably expanded what they can offer over the years as competition forces them to look for new lines.

Ricoh likely acquired them with a view to expanding their office products production capabilities and/or to have more home country plants (they have at least two Elemex plants in Japan). Maybe Elemex is used to produce Ricoh office copier and other such products when they have gaps in the Ricoh Elemex production schedule for other products.

Could Elemex make cameras or camera sub-assemblies? Sure, but there is no evidence that they do so, and an assembly out-sourcer like Ricoh Elemex would be keen to advertise that capability especially in photography-friendly Japan.

If Elemex had expertise in producing camera equipment, presumably that experience would first come from operating as a subcontractor for Ricoh Camera, and, if so, they would not be shy about advertising that capability in order to attract new business.

I could find no mention of optical manufacturing or camera technology manufacturing for Ricoh Elemex.

For that reason the strike at a China-based Elemex plant that you've mentioned seems immaterial as a potential link to the delay in production of Leica M-240 cameras and therefore does not buttress a case for a rumoured business arrangement between Leica and Ricoh.

If there is a business arrangement between Leica and Ricoh, maybe Leica bought or leases a few  Ricoh photocopiers.

lenseye. Sorry to sound dismissive but any regular here can tell us that Ricoh bring out a new GRD in September every two years. It's well known. Even a camera gossip magazine can muster up the  brain cells required to work that one out.

'Personally I think Ricoh is on life support'. They don't need life support, they have the Pentax brand to keep them afloat, whilst they work on good cameras that the rest of us want.

I like it when the big boys aren't interested in things. It gives the quiet thoughtful ones time and space to do interesting possibly great things unnoticed and without interference.

No problem... you're free to think anyway you like! I posted that chart as part of being facetious, personally really don't care if Ricoh ever release another product or not and recently threads like this get under my skin. Kind of like loud noise you can't turn off! I'm not a Ricoh die-hard by any stretch of imagination though I don't dislike them either and have some of their products... happily I might add!

As for "they don't need life support",  That statement couldn't be farther from the truth since Pentax is not exactly a cash cow!  A few years ago they almost went out of business due to poor sales and shrinking customer base then they somewhat came back from the brink. I think that was also one reason Ricoh bought them in the first place because the price was attractive. The Ricoh "camera brand" and division is on life support at least from where I sit with whatever limited info I have...maybe they'll just get digested into Pentax... who knows!

Somehow I don't think the Ricoh-Pentax marriage has been made in heaven either as these are two giant names with very differing camera making philosophies! Just look at the product lines, I wonder how they get anything done, knowing to some extent the Japanese mentality/thinking in general.