What has happened to Nikon?

Started Feb 14, 2013 | Discussions
sandy b
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No its not
In reply to papparazzi, Feb 15, 2013

But it's getting so old. I have been coming here to relax after work for 12 years. One of the few enjoyable things I get to do on a daily basis. And it's world war III in here. Maybe we should have a manuafactueres complaint forum, so every other post here isn't piled on.

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papparazzi
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Re: This is funny
In reply to sandy b, Feb 15, 2013

sandy b wrote:

Sorry, this was not to be directed at you, I know you don't bash, and are a dual system user. This thread got me worked up, clicked where I shouldn't have. I apologise.

No problem,

Cheers

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Shotcents
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Re: About the crops Re: What has happened to Nikon?
In reply to rhlpetrus, Feb 15, 2013

rhlpetrus wrote:

Robin Casady wrote:

Shotcents wrote:




Top crop is using the left sensor. It doesn't matter what the subject is. The focus error is 100% repeatable. If your camera does not do this then I very glad, Robin.

Thanks. It doesn't do that unless the lens is poor in that area of the field.

I agree, nothing is in focus on the top crop, so it's not a back or front focus issue, likely just a resolution problem of lens. This is not "minor" regarding focus, and it doesn't look like a focus problem.

Sorry, guys. The camera does this on ANY lens using the left point. It is most noticeable with fast glass. There is no in-focus elements visible in the left-point shot because it's a crop of the OOF area and not the whole image.

Really, that should be obvious.

Robert

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Shotcents
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Re: No its not
In reply to sandy b, Feb 15, 2013

sandy b wrote:

But it's getting so old. I have been coming here to relax after work for 12 years. One of the few enjoyable things I get to do on a daily basis. And it's world war III in here. Maybe we should have a manuafactueres complaint forum, so every other post here isn't piled on.

That's a really good idea.

Robert

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nathantw
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Re: What has happened to Nikon?
In reply to Shotcents, Feb 15, 2013

Shotcents wrote:

You're absolutely right, somewhere between your BS and the Fanboys BS lies the truth...just as you said.

Why give a reply like this? Look at the other replies made by adults. It's a gear forum, not a Nikon cheerleading squad.

I'm not FLAMING Nikon. I'm simply stating my experience.

Before the D800 came out I started a thread saying that I would never rush out and buy a camera right when it was released and that I was going to wait for all the bugs to get worked out of the camera. I got thrown to the wolves because every single person was saying I was wrong about there being bugs or problems with buying a camera the day it was released because theirs were always perfect.

So here we are almost a year later and I'm still seeing the complaints rolling in for both the D800 and D600. I've been dying to buy the D800 because that's the camera I've been waiting for but after seeing all the complaints I decided to wait for its successor and for Nikon to get their s**t together. It's too bad because Nikon did have a great reputation and deservedly so during their film years.

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GroWeb
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Re: OT -- Re: singular vs. plural
In reply to shigzeo ?, Feb 15, 2013

shigzeo ? wrote:

This is also an arguable point; grammar is fluid from region to region. Sentences in English tend to run longer. Americans meander with pronunciation, but tend to prefer shorter sentences. It's all fluid. Even moving across the border to Canada will show up differences from what is typified as "North American English".

It is absolutely true that language is fluid, as you point out, and this is why we no longer speak the English of Chaucer or Shakespeare. The regional differences are a reflection of the incredible flexibility and adaptability that have made English the most broadly used "lingua franca" (nice irony) of modern times. However, the standard rules of English grammar -- like the definitions in the standard dictionaries -- operate as a control on the pace of change and on the continuing ability of people from various regions to understand each other. Those standards change at a slower pace than their absence would allow.

Corporations/companies are treated as groups, hence 'are' in certain places in the world; in others, they are singular. There is no fast rule that spans the continents.

And the name of a group is a singular collective noun, not a plural noun, according to the current rules of standard English grammar (pardon me for only now introducing the concept of standard English; I know that this may be seen to be unfairly narrowing and bolstering my point). Examples: "my family is ..." versus "my relatives are ... ," or "my parents are ..." versus "the older generation is ... ." Divergence from this rule is non-standard. Admittedly, I do not know whether this divergence has made it into any of the standard grammar guides; in fact, I don't even know what the standard grammar guides would be, unless they are the style guides used by editors.

Still, English influenced places in Canada still use English patterns.

Newfoundland is a unique and amazing example of this. Several centuries of English (and other) patterns can be found living there.

Technically, a company can be referred to as an inanimate object or a group, and the singular is used.

Exactly so.

When referring to the individuals in the company, or team, or country, electorate, etc., you can use plural, too.

Of course. For instance, "the executive committee is ... " versus "the executives are ... ."

Only the author knows what they mean. Or, plural can be 'incorrect' as it should refer to members in the group, but if we are going to knock on grammar doors, might as well hammer everything out there.

Why not, eh? (Pardon my Canadianism.)

It's the internet, not a university paper. Grammar on the screen is just a computer extrapolating the chaos of a person's typing into legible words. Or, illegible words. I'm not sure which it is in my case.

I know. That's why I don't generally bring this stuff up. I also know that the only thing that really matters is whether I understand what the person means, not whether they used proper grammar in expressing their meaning (notice my use of the recently evolved application of the plural third person pronoun to avoid a gender-specific singular pronoun? Maybe I'm really just a confused hypocrite). I just couldn't resist the opportunity your initial post presented. Thanks for the response.

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J Mankila
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Re: OT -- Re: singular vs. plural
In reply to shigzeo ?, Feb 15, 2013

shigzeo ? wrote:

GroWeb wrote:

shigzeo ? wrote:

Nikon is to Canon as Canon is to Nikon. (Add 'are' for English speakers. Remember, I'm drunk. My arguments return to base sentiments as my blood flows black (the Sambuca is black).)

[Rant/] Thanks for highlighting one of the grammatical things that annoy me the most. Proper nouns like "Nikon" and "Canon" are singular not plural; these are individual companies' names and are the precise grammatical equivalent of individual people's names (note: legally, a company is treated as a person). Therefore it is correct to say "Nikon is ..." and incorrect to say "Nikon are ..." [/Rant]

.....

Corporations/companies are treated as groups, hence 'are' in certain places in the world; in others, they are singular. There is no fast rule that spans the continents.

Can I ask, what is the common usage in Britain? I'm trying to veer off from the American English that I was brought up to (thank you MacGyver, Turtles, etc.)

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regards
Janne Mankila, Finland

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gomoku
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Re: My biggest problem with Nikon is me...
In reply to FtoDin5min, Feb 15, 2013

FtoDin5min wrote:

So, only doubting me, I tweaked my technique, learned the settings that suited me best. And it was a real learning curve. It took a couple of months. During these two months, the left AF issue came out. I bought lensalign and reikan focal, AF fine tune my bodies, became crazy and tested and retested my left sensors... looked like I didn't have the dreaded issue.

Result is:

- I had to really adjust my technique and settings preferences

- A little of AF Fine tune

and now I have tack sharp pictures on a very consistent basis.

Kudos to someone who is able to admit this. Most of us have had to step up our game to get the most out of our D800. I am confident the D800 AF issue is in reality a very mixed bag of all sorts of things. A steep learning curve is one of them.

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rhlpetrus
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Re: About the crops Re: What has happened to Nikon?
In reply to Shotcents, Feb 15, 2013

Shotcents wrote:

rhlpetrus wrote:

Robin Casady wrote:

Shotcents wrote:




Top crop is using the left sensor. It doesn't matter what the subject is. The focus error is 100% repeatable. If your camera does not do this then I very glad, Robin.

Thanks. It doesn't do that unless the lens is poor in that area of the field.

I agree, nothing is in focus on the top crop, so it's not a back or front focus issue, likely just a resolution problem of lens. This is not "minor" regarding focus, and it doesn't look like a focus problem.

Sorry, guys. The camera does this on ANY lens using the left point. It is most noticeable with fast glass. There is no in-focus elements visible in the left-point shot because it's a crop of the OOF area and not the whole image.

Really, that should be obvious.

Robert

No, it's not obvious. If AF point is in that area, small AF variations should make points either behind or in front in focus. It's just blurred, and could have other cause, like a lens lack of resolution there. Can you please post a larger crop of that file?

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J Mankila
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To learn or not to learn...
In reply to shigzeo ?, Feb 15, 2013

shigzeo ? wrote:

.....

I, too, have a D800, which I use professionally and for hobby work.....

By the way, are you perfectly happy with your copy?

..... Because the consumer isn't important in Japan and because the corporation dictates the laws in this country, things will only cheapen. Unless there is 2nd coming quality and leadership from abroad, things will only get worse.....

..... Nikon will become nothing more than a plastic fantastic in a few years no matter that they started as a feisty optical company.....

..... Things are cheap. Things are not researched. Things are made only to make money, not to leave a mark. That is how they are. That is how they will remain. Welcome to a Japan/Korea/China dominated economy.....

This situation intrigues me as much as it frightens me, it really does. Either we go down that rabbit hole and one day the ethical abrasions begin to feel, or the companies find ways to convince us that we want to spend more money and demand higher quality. Personally, I'd be extatic if, in a hundred years' time, people would watch and read "Manufactured Landscapes" and not understand what that was all about.

A somewhat humorous suggestion was made a while back for the public authorities here that for each and every high technology product sold, the expected operating lifespan (connected to the warranty, of course) of the product should be given and, thus, the product cost per year be attached to the price tag. That could be a wake up call.

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regards
Janne Mankila, Finland

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Art Jacks
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Re: What has happened to Nikon?
In reply to nathantw, Feb 15, 2013

If you are basing your buying decisions on internet posts that is your choice but I feel you have deprived yourself of nearly 12 months worth of shooting with an outstanding camera, my D800 was purchased early April from the first batch to be available in the UK and despite following all the testing methods listed on this forum I have not found anything that gives me any concern, my photographs are the best  ( from a technical point ) I have ever produced in over 40 years, the artistic quality is open for discussion

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primeshooter
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Re: Great cameras, Gold Awards, Standard Setting Image Quality, the Usual Stuff.
In reply to Reilly Diefenbach, Feb 15, 2013

Reilly Diefenbach wrote:

No, no, complain loud and long. Very theraputic, I'm sure, so have at it. Return all the "defective" cameras you want and post a second hundred threads about it. Have fun with it. Robert is here for you. He cares, deeply.

I don't.

Over and out.

You got a working camera. I am truly happy for you. I wonder how you'd be if you've had to return it 3 times for 3 separate things breaking with it. Might care a little more huh...You can just not post in the threads about defective Nikon (yes you will have to avoid a large part of the forum, but at the end of the day that's mostly Nikon's fault...)

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primeshooter
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Re: Nikon vs.Apple
In reply to Robin Casady, Feb 15, 2013

Robin Casady wrote:

Shotcents wrote:

I own a quad core i7 Mac that cost a bit over 3K. Some months ago Apple sent me an e-mail. It said that the hard drive in my system might have a flaw that would effect it's longevity. They provided info for me to check the system and drive and a number that entitled me to a free drive replacement.

I brought the CPU to the local Apple store and 3 days later I picked up my Mac with it's new drive. All of my files and software were replaced (I had backed them up) and the store gave me a 25 dollar gift card.

Apple has also refused to acknowledge some problems and left the owners high and dry.

Can anyone imagine Nikon behaving this way?

They did with the battery recall.

Slightly different. That would have been illegal not to inform customers about batteries that could explode or burst into flames, wouldn't it...It's okay to leave people with duff autofocus and keep claiming it's "within spec".

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— Bertrand Russell

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Shotcents
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Nikon QC
In reply to primeshooter, Feb 15, 2013

I like my Nikon gear but I've had, like so many others, trouble with the newest bodies.

I'm sorry, but if you think this has happened before you're being very unrealistic. While most DSLRs have some issues upon release, this is quite a bit worse. We're not talking about a few dead pixels. We're talking about basic operation, such as AF and oil on a sensor.

And the repair stories do not inspire confidence.

That's it. If you want to play netcop and tell me that the Nikon gear forum is only for positive discussion, you'll turn blue trying to stop people from posting valid (and sometimes less than valid) complaints.

Will Nikon care if I move to Canon? Sure they will. Because I'm not just one person. I'm the guy who knows quite a few pro shooters in NY, CT and PA. Some have already dropped Nikon. And my behavior influences people around me. And those people's behavior effects others. And that's how Nikon can eventually lose a lot of the market no matter how higly spec'd their cameras are.

A hundred unhappy customers effects many thousands of other customers. It's basic business.

And if your D800 or other new camera works perfectly, then why are you reading THIS? It has nothing to do with you. Enjoy your camera. Go take some photos and post them. I'm not raining on anyone's parade.

Robert

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papparazzi
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Re: No its not
In reply to sandy b, Feb 15, 2013

sandy b wrote:

But it's getting so old. I have been coming here to relax after work for 12 years. One of the few enjoyable things I get to do on a daily basis. And it's world war III in here. Maybe we should have a manuafactueres complaint forum, so every other post here isn't piled on.

That could work...:)

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primeshooter
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Re: Nikon QC
In reply to Shotcents, Feb 15, 2013

Shotcents wrote:

I like my Nikon gear but I've had, like so many others, trouble with the newest bodies.

I'm sorry, but if you think this has happened before you're being very unrealistic. While most DSLRs have some issues upon release, this is quite a bit worse. We're not talking about a few dead pixels. We're talking about basic operation, such as AF and oil on a sensor.

And the repair stories do not inspire confidence.

That's it. If you want to play netcop and tell me that the Nikon gear forum is only for positive discussion, you'll turn blue trying to stop people from posting valid (and sometimes less than valid) complaints.

Will Nikon care if I move to Canon? Sure they will. Because I'm not just one person. I'm the guy who knows quite a few pro shooters in NY, CT and PA. Some have already dropped Nikon. And my behavior influences people around me. And those people's behavior effects others. And that's how Nikon can eventually lose a lot of the market no matter how higly spec'd their cameras are.

A hundred unhappy customers effects many thousands of other customers. It's basic business.

And if your D800 or other new camera works perfectly, then why are you reading THIS? It has nothing to do with you. Enjoy your camera. Go take some photos and post them. I'm not raining on anyone's parade.

Robert

Very true. What I find weird is people that have a working camera just can't grasp the fact that some people don't. They find it hard to put themselves in the shoes of people who have had to send their camera off several times to have AF adjusted but gotten it back the same or worse. You'd loose your patience after a few times too...

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sandy b
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Re: No its not
In reply to papparazzi, Feb 15, 2013

I'll suggest it, nothing ventured...

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RicksAstro
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Re: OT -- Re: singular vs. plural
In reply to shigzeo ?, Feb 15, 2013

shigzeo ? wrote:

It's the internet...

...or is it "internets"   ?

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moving_comfort
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Delay purchase based on forum chatter: a sad fail.
In reply to nathantw, Feb 15, 2013

nathantw wrote:

Shotcents wrote:

You're absolutely right, somewhere between your BS and the Fanboys BS lies the truth...just as you said.

Why give a reply like this? Look at the other replies made by adults. It's a gear forum, not a Nikon cheerleading squad.

I'm not FLAMING Nikon. I'm simply stating my experience.

Before the D800 came out I started a thread saying that I would never rush out and buy a camera right when it was released and that I was going to wait for all the bugs to get worked out of the camera. I got thrown to the wolves because every single person was saying I was wrong about there being bugs or problems with buying a camera the day it was released because theirs were always perfect.

So here we are almost a year later and I'm still seeing the complaints rolling in for both the D800 and D600. I've been dying to buy the D800 because that's the camera I've been waiting for but after seeing all the complaints I decided to wait for its successor and for Nikon to get their s**t together. It's too bad because Nikon did have a great reputation and deservedly so during their film years.

-

.

Personally I think you've shot yourself in the foot.

The D800 is a remarkable camera - I can't go back to a lesser model now, with less resolution.  It's just almost perfect, IMO.

I think the odds of you getting a 'bad' body (in any way) are much, much less than what you'd glean by reading this and other forums.

There's a lot of hysteria, a lot of false information, a lot of trolling, etc.  If you've delayed a purchase of something as great as a D800 based on this forum, you've done yourself a disservice.

.

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Here are a few of my favorite things...
---> http://www.flickr.com/photos/95095968@N00/sets/72157626171532197/

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Shotcents
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Re: No its not
In reply to sandy b, Feb 15, 2013

sandy b wrote:

I'll suggest it, nothing ventured...

I will as well.

Robert

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