What has happened to Nikon?

Started Feb 14, 2013 | Discussions
Shotcents
Senior MemberPosts: 4,068Gear list
Like?
The Nikon Basher?
In reply to lanefAU, Feb 15, 2013

The idea that I'm a Nikon basher is pretty silly.

I've enjoy most of my Nikon gear....My 70-200 VRII is my favorite lens. I do complain about the focus breathing, well, because it has really bad focus breathing; the worst in it's class. I found the 24-85vr an amazing little lens and even prefer it to the 24-120 F4! The 85 1.8G is a wonder of sharpness and bokeh. I find it better than my old 85 1.4D. Though I sold my 24-70 it's a fantastic lens. The 300 F4 and 2.8 are amazing.

My D700 was fantastic. So was my D700, D300, and all the rest. So now I'm a Nikon basher because I bring up the issue of QC?

If you think it's only 50 people you're in dreamland. If you think it's because the unhappy customers make the most noise you're also wrong. There has NEVER been this kind of noise before.

And while I'm contributing to that noise, I'm a drop in the bucket. Look, I enjoy my D800 and lenses. I'm simply stating a very simple set of facts. If Nikon decides to conduct this type of business they will see profits fall even further.

With the D4, D600 and D800 Nikon had the key to complete domination of the DSLR market. All three ranked above Canon's models at release dates that were close. Nikon had the win, but they are losing the game in a BIG way because they did not build the cameras well enough.

Concept, Design and Build. All three have to be there for a successful product. Nikon failed on BUILD.

Robert

 Shotcents's gear list:Shotcents's gear list
Nikon Coolpix P7700 Nikon D800 Nikon D5200 Nikon Df Nikon AF-S Nikkor 70-200mm f/2.8G ED VR II +10 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Shotcents
Senior MemberPosts: 4,068Gear list
Like?
Nikon vs.Apple
In reply to Shotcents, Feb 15, 2013

I own a quad core i7 Mac that cost a bit over 3K. Some months ago Apple sent me an e-mail. It said that the hard drive in my system might have a flaw that would effect it's longevity. They provided info for me to check the system and drive and a number that entitled me to a free drive replacement.

I brought the CPU to the local Apple store and 3 days later I picked up my Mac with it's new drive. All of my files and software were replaced (I had backed them up) and the store gave me a 25 dollar gift card.

Can anyone imagine Nikon behaving this way?

I called Nikon about the AF issue twice and both times they were far from understanding. We've all seen the posts from people sending cameras in 3 times. Or Nikon claims the AF points are fine. Or they say it has impact damage.

As a consumer I should not be AFRAID to use my warranty.

Just how much dynamite has to go off between your ears before you become clear-headed about this stuff?

Robert

 Shotcents's gear list:Shotcents's gear list
Nikon Coolpix P7700 Nikon D800 Nikon D5200 Nikon Df Nikon AF-S Nikkor 70-200mm f/2.8G ED VR II +10 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Captain Tommy
Regular MemberPosts: 254Gear list
Like?
Re: What has happened to Nikon?
In reply to Shotcents, Feb 15, 2013

As a Nikon shooter---I have to say my D800E and my D4 and all my lenses are the finest in the world--I would stack them up against anyone.  In fact the D800E is revolutionizing photography--ask any of the folks at NG.

I have used Nikon Service and have had great experience with them.  LIke anything in life nothing is perfect--if you have a problem work thru it and get on with it.  If you depend on Nikon to put food on your table I know there are a ton of pros who would not switch.  But we all have the freedom to do whatever we wish--some more loudly, others under the radar.  Just do it.

 Captain Tommy's gear list:Captain Tommy's gear list
Nikon D4 Nikon D800E Nikon AF-S Nikkor 14-24mm f/2.8G ED Nikon AF-S Nikkor 24-70mm f/2.8G ED Nikon AF-S Nikkor 70-200mm f/2.8G ED VR II +3 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
bigpigbig
Senior MemberPosts: 1,678Gear list
Like?
Re: The Nikon Basher?
In reply to Shotcents, Feb 15, 2013

Shotcents wrote:

The idea that I'm a Nikon basher is pretty silly.

History doesn't lie.

I've enjoy most of my Nikon gear....My 70-200 VRII is my favorite lens. I do complain about the focus breathing, well, because it has really bad focus breathing; the worst in it's class. I found the 24-85vr an amazing little lens and even prefer it to the 24-120 F4! The 85 1.8G is a wonder of sharpness and bokeh. I find it better than my old 85 1.4D. Though I sold my 24-70 it's a fantastic lens. The 300 F4 and 2.8 are amazing.

Simple views of an amateur photographer. Why should anyone care what lenses you prefer? No offense, but in the big picture, you are nobody.

My D700 was fantastic. So was my D700, D300, and all the rest. So now I'm a Nikon basher because I bring up the issue of QC?

No, it is because you won't let a dead horse alone. You have beat that horse until it is a bloody pulp. Stop kicking.

If you think it's only 50 people you're in dreamland. If you think it's because the unhappy customers make the most noise you're also wrong. There has NEVER been this kind of noise before.

If YOU think it is the majority, it is YOU who are in dreamland. You must have missed the 1D MKIII era AF issues. Now those were serious AF issues. Don't think I am a Canon bashing Nikon fanboy either, I love Canon equipment and used it for 20+ years. I would still use it, if the Nikon D800E sensor was not hands and feet the best sensor ever created. Period. Truth.

And while I'm contributing to that noise, I'm a drop in the bucket. Look, I enjoy my D800 and lenses. I'm simply stating a very simple set of facts. If Nikon decides to conduct this type of business they will see profits fall even further.

We get that. Now stop.

With the D4, D600 and D800 Nikon had the key to complete domination of the DSLR market. All three ranked above Canon's models at release dates that were close. Nikon had the win, but they are losing the game in a BIG way because they did not build the cameras well enough.

Says you. I'll stick with my D800E. Might be the last camera I buy for a VERY long time. Incredible DR and 36mp without an AA sensor and we are as close to MF as we have ever been.

Concept, Design and Build. All three have to be there for a successful product. Nikon failed on BUILD.

Uh, nope. Mine is rock solid. With the grip, it feels damn near Pro (Canon 1D MKIV is my reference) build. I'd rate it a 9/10 on build.

Now please, just, stop.

 bigpigbig's gear list:bigpigbig's gear list
Fujifilm X-E1 Fujifilm X-T1 Nikon D810 Nikon AF-S Nikkor 14-24mm f/2.8G ED Nikon AF-S Nikkor 24-70mm f/2.8G ED +12 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
wombat779
Regular MemberPosts: 210
Like?
Re: Digiman - Your post has the 'evidence' all other posts anecdotal
In reply to Bajerunner, Feb 15, 2013

Bajerunner wrote:

Hmm highly interesting and moreso as you say independent. The issue of QC is very apparent and supports the anecdotal statements on this blog, quote ''More notable, to me at least, is that we’ve already had almost 10% of our Canon 5D III and Nikon D800s repaired, despite having them in stock only a few months. I said we usually don’t put things on the list that we’ve had less than 6 months, but this is so noticeable it deserves mention. Once again, early adopters seem to be doing some beta testing.''

...

I find it highly strange that just because people choose to reply and comment to a blog thread re issues, they are labelled 'having a problem with Nikon'. But here these factual links show clear QC and service issues. No one says they hate Nikon or Canon, but to comment on evidence is perfectly legitimate.

But look more closely at the numbers.  The majority of D800 repairs were needed to fix a broken battery door (a part Nikon now sells online for $3.90), while the majority of the 5D3 repairs were for bent CF pins. Now, the author notes that the D800 numbers do not include repairs needed for the left-AF issue, so presumably the D800 numbers will go up.  No mention of whether they had or bothered to send in any cameras for the 5D3 light leak tape fix.  In any case they are annoying issues for sure, but hardly indicative of major across the board major QC problems. Similarly regarding the list of lenses needing the most repair seems pretty varied and not specific to any manufacturer (e.g., its not Nikon's lenses are breaking all the time while Canon's are perfect). Indeed, the author of that Lensrentals article notes "Nikon makes excellent, reliable equipment and most people need a repair maybe once every couple of years."

Now, the Lensrentals data regarding Nikon USA repair times IS troubling, and I hope just represents temporary issues.  In short, what I get from that article is that Nikon Japan is less of a problem that Nikon USA (which is a mess).

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
TimK5
Senior MemberPosts: 1,065
Like?
Re: What has happened to Nikon?
In reply to michaeladawson, Feb 15, 2013

michaeladawson wrote:

I have 40 years of experience in photography. .... That makes me a fanboy?

40 years in photography makes you the uber-fanboy!

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Robin Casady
Forum ProPosts: 12,013
Like?
Re: What has happened to Nikon?
In reply to Shotcents, Feb 15, 2013

Shotcents wrote:

Robin Casady wrote:

From a number of threads, I have to wonder about you perception of cameras and lenses. You ranted about AF problems, then you posted that you tried the AF-ON only technique and all was good. Now you are ranting again. You seem to think the 24-85 VR is as sharp as the 24-70.

I posted that all was improved. And it is. But I do not find the D800 AF as good as the D700, nor does anyone else I know. Let's be realistic. Look at this thread. Don't you SEE the people who are not happy? This was not the case with the D700 and I had that camera from 1st release.

I see the same people ranting over and over again. I also recall problems with the D700 and rants about it on dpreview.

(As for the 24-85vr, yes, in the center of the frame it's so close to the sharpness of the 24-70 and 70-200 as to be hardly significant. I can prove it with samples if you'd like, but I can also point you to a nice online comparison that also agrees. But this is off topic-send me a PM and I'd be happy to discuss)

I already pointed you to samples that show significant differences in sharpness, color fringing, vignetting, and flare.

The D800E has been more than I dreamed possible a few years ago.

That's great, Robin. I mean that. I don't wish anyone to have problems with this expensive gear. It's a sinking feeling. But again, look around you. These forums and websites are LOADED with issues on the latest Nikon cameras. Weak AF, left AF out of whack, oil on sensors, cameras DOA and more. And Nikon is utterly silent. When Canon had a couple of early issues with the 5DIII they announced it FAST. I'd feel good if I owned a camera from a company like that.

I don't see real evidence for "weak AF". I see evidence for calibration and alignment problems that require AF fine-tuning or repair. There is enough evidence to indicate that there was some systemic problem with a percentage of D800. Thom indicated that he could only verify about 20% of left AF problems reported to him. He said there were lots of complaints that turned out to be user error. So, I think your perception of the problem is overblown.

The AF on my D800E is more accurate and reliable than any of my previous DSLRs. I guess I've been very lucky with my D800E in that it has not needed any AF fine-tuning and the extreme left AF is as good as one can expect (not a cross sensor). I did have to do some fine tuning on the D700.

My D800 requires AF tuning on all lenses. So do most that I hear of. My D700 and D300 only required small amounts of tuning on 1.4 glass as I recall.

Get it repaired.

I have no way to judge what other people's D800 and D800E cameras are like. Since some of the major photo pundits say that there are problems, I assume there must be. I doubt that they are as bad as some of the ranters have claimed.

Why would you doubt this? I have a camera with what my friends call "a minimal left AF issue."

Why would I doubt that the problem is as bad as ranters claim? Because many of the outbursts are obviously emotional for an issue that requires careful analysis. This is a technical issue that requires careful testing and calibration to verify. From what they say on the forum, I expect a lot of ranters are not capable of good evaluation.



Top crop is using the left sensor. It doesn't matter what the subject is. The focus error is 100% repeatable. If your camera does not do this then I very glad, Robin.

Thanks. It doesn't do that unless the lens is poor in that area of the field.

I'm glad that my D800E is so excellent. I'm sorry for those who have had bad experiences, but it annoys me that some of then are using this forum to vent their frustration over and over and over and over.

Robin, you have the luxury of owning a trouble free D800e. And that's fantastic. But if you're watching the forums you certainly know that something has happened to Nikon. Whether it's Earthquakes, global warming or terrorists, many of us paid a lot of money for gear that is substandard.

It is frustrating when there are problems with gear. The PDAF system is a complex system that requires very tight tolerances to work properly. I think it is fairly obvious that Nikon wasn't expecting this kind of problem. Something in their system wasn't catching it. From the reports it seems that it took them awhile to figure out what was wrong and how to correct it. Only recently does it seem that repair centers have received the information and equipment they needed to properly repair it. That isn't really surprising. With something this complicated and unexpected it can take awhile to diagnose the problem, engineer a remedy, and disseminate the info and equipment to all the repair centers around the world.

Thom claims that the D800 coming out of Japan now do not have the left AF problem. A number of people have reported that their cameras are now coming back from repair with the problem fixed properly.

Still worse, Nikon has been cryptic and less than helpful in fixing the problems. How many times have you read about owners sending back cameras two or more times? It's incredible that this could be tolerated. So now, and this is particularly sad, I'm AFRAID to get my D800 serviced for fear that it will end up worse. Or that they'll blame me and charge me.

I read about cameras coming back multiple times when the problem was newly discovered. Lately I am reading more about cameras coming back with AF working properly. It takes awhile for a problem to get solved and all the world-wide repair centers to get the proper training for this problem.

Robin, as my Irish friends like to say, "This is just not on."

Get your camera repaired, and move on. You aren't going to get a public confession and apology from Nikon.

-- hide signature --

Robin Casady
http://www.robincasady.com/Photo/index.html
"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts."
— Bertrand Russell

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Robin Casady
Forum ProPosts: 12,013
Like?
Re: Nikon vs.Apple
In reply to Shotcents, Feb 15, 2013

Shotcents wrote:

I own a quad core i7 Mac that cost a bit over 3K. Some months ago Apple sent me an e-mail. It said that the hard drive in my system might have a flaw that would effect it's longevity. They provided info for me to check the system and drive and a number that entitled me to a free drive replacement.

I brought the CPU to the local Apple store and 3 days later I picked up my Mac with it's new drive. All of my files and software were replaced (I had backed them up) and the store gave me a 25 dollar gift card.

Apple has also refused to acknowledge some problems and left the owners high and dry.

Can anyone imagine Nikon behaving this way?

They did with the battery recall.

-- hide signature --

Robin Casady
http://www.robincasady.com/Photo/index.html
"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts."
— Bertrand Russell

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Zerblatt
Forum MemberPosts: 64
Like?
Re: What has happened to Nikon?
In reply to Robin Casady, Feb 15, 2013

Robin Casady wrote:

From a number of threads, I have to wonder about you perception of cameras and lenses. You ranted about AF problems, then you posted that you tried the AF-ON only technique and all was good. Now you are ranting again. You seem to think the 24-85 VR is as sharp as the 24-70.

My experience has been that each Nikon DSLR I've owned has been better than the last. With digital I started with a D100. Then got a D2x for higher resolution and other improvements. Made the change to digital FX with a D700. The DR improvement over the D2x was amazing. Now I have a D800E. My first Nikon was a Nikkormat in 1967 and adding a Nikon F in 1970. Then I started favoring medium and large format. A Nikon N90 was mostly used when I needed 35mm color slides.

The D800E has been more than I dreamed possible a few years ago.

The AF on my D800E is more accurate and reliable than any of my previous DSLRs. I guess I've been very lucky with my D800E in that it has not needed any AF fine-tuning and the extreme left AF is as good as one can expect (not a cross sensor). I did have to do some fine tuning on the D700.

The increased sensitivity of PDAF has been noticeable over the D700. The D800E finds focus in situations that surprise me.

With manual focus lenses I can often get more accurate focus with the green dot than I can with the less than stellar LV. Even CDAF seems less reliable than PDAF.

I have no way to judge what other people's D800 and D800E cameras are like. Since some of the major photo pundits say that there are problems, I assume there must be. I doubt that they are as bad as some of the ranters have claimed.

Nikon went through a rough time with the earthquake and tsunami. Their Sendai plant (where the D800E is made) sustained some damage from the earthquake. The tsunami was horrifically devastating to the people of Sendai and the town's infrastructure. This would have affected emplyees of the Sendai plant as well as suppliers Nikon relies on.

Later, the floods in Thailand devastated a Nikon factory.

I would expect that these disasters made things rather difficult for the people of Nikon. Schedules would be interrupted, there would have been problems with supply chains, employee morale would have been affected. It would surprise me if there hadn't been consequences to these disasters.

I'm glad that my D800E is so excellent. I'm sorry for those who have had bad experiences, but it annoys me that some of then are using this forum to vent their frustration over and over and over and over.

That's my impression of the d800.

I have had no issues with it

It's a great camera.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
lanefAU
Senior MemberPosts: 4,633Gear list
Like?
Re: The Nikon Basher?
In reply to Shotcents, Feb 15, 2013

Shotcents wrote:

The idea that I'm a Nikon basher is pretty silly.

Robert

Are you mistaking me for someone else or what? Where have  I called you a Nikon basher?

 lanefAU's gear list:lanefAU's gear list
Canon PowerShot G1 X II Nikon D810 Nikon AF-S Nikkor 16-35mm f/4G ED VR Nikon AF-S Nikkor 24-70mm f/2.8G ED Nikon AF-S Nikkor 70-300mm f/4.5-5.6G VR +2 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
rhlpetrus
Forum ProPosts: 23,507Gear list
Like?
The proof of the pudding
In reply to Shotcents, Feb 15, 2013

Sales. If Nikon does well, relatively to rest of market, they will mostly ignore the internet noise, if sales start to show real problems, they will look for reasons, the QC item will become relevant. They run surveys, they may be preparing one on QC and user perception.

The fact that this or that site or blogger has complained or reported problems is not a big thing per se, unexpected difficulties in selling products is what matters. Canon had a big perception issue with the AF during the 1D3 debacle, but still they kept at #1 in overall dslr sales.

The fact that Nikon has had a reduction in returns is not an indication sales have really slowed down, there are financial issues, like the exchange rate, competition and pricing, etc. I bet they know about these things more than anyone in these forums do.

As an user, I hope they improve on their QC and product support, obviously, even if, personally, I haven't had any issues with 3 bodies and 7 lenses (dlsrs and Nikon 1), plus flash and other stuff.

Maybe my perspective is of someone that is still amazed what digital allows one to do photographically, having used film for 30+ years before getting first digital dslr 6 years ago.

-- hide signature --

Renato. http://www.flickr.com/photos/rhlpedrosa/ OnExposure member http://www.onexposure.net/ Good shooting and good luck (after Ed Murrow)

 rhlpetrus's gear list:rhlpetrus's gear list
Nikon D7000 Nikon 1 V1 Nikon AF-S DX Nikkor 12-24mm f/4G ED-IF Nikon AF Nikkor 35mm f/2D Nikon AF-S Nikkor 70-300mm f/4.5-5.6G VR +3 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
shigzeo
Senior MemberPosts: 1,364Gear list
Like?
Re: OT -- Re: singular vs. plural
In reply to GroWeb, Feb 15, 2013

GroWeb wrote:

shigzeo ? wrote:

Nikon is to Canon as Canon is to Nikon. (Add 'are' for English speakers. Remember, I'm drunk. My arguments return to base sentiments as my blood flows black (the Sambuca is black).)

[Rant/] Thanks for highlighting one of the grammatical things that annoy me the most. Proper nouns like "Nikon" and "Canon" are singular not plural; these are individual companies' names and are the precise grammatical equivalent of individual people's names (note: legally, a company is treated as a person). Therefore it is correct to say "Nikon is ..." and incorrect to say "Nikon are ..." [/Rant]

Unlike many people, your grammar apparently improves when you are intoxicated.

This is also an arguable point; grammar is fluid from region to region. Sentences in English tend to run longer. Americans meander with pronunciation, but tend to prefer shorter sentences. It's all fluid. Even moving across the border to Canada will show up differences from what is typified as "North American English".

Corporations/companies are treated as groups, hence 'are' in certain places in the world; in others, they are singular. There is no fast rule that spans the continents.

EDIT: I noticed that you are from Canada. In which case, you should notice that Canadian English has gone through vast changes in the last 100 years. A century ago, Canada practiced a more nebulous English. It was spelled like English and used many English idioms and patterns. Fast forward to the end of WWII and Canadian English had pretty much switched to American.

Still, English influenced places in Canada still use English patterns. Technically, a company can be referred to as an inanimate object or a group, and the singular is used. When referring to the individuals in the company, or team, or country, electorate, etc., you can use plural, too. Only the author knows what they mean. Or, plural can be 'incorrect' as it should refer to members in the group, but if we are going to knock on grammar doors, might as well hammer everything out there.

It's the internet, not a university paper. Grammar on the screen is just a computer extrapolating the chaos of a person's typing into legible words. Or, illegible words. I'm not sure which it is in my case.

 shigzeo's gear list:shigzeo's gear list
Nikon D200 Fujifilm X-Pro1 Nikon D800 Sony Alpha 7R Fujifilm X-T1 +6 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
rhlpetrus
Forum ProPosts: 23,507Gear list
Like?
About the crops Re: What has happened to Nikon?
In reply to Robin Casady, Feb 15, 2013

Robin Casady wrote:

Shotcents wrote:




Top crop is using the left sensor. It doesn't matter what the subject is. The focus error is 100% repeatable. If your camera does not do this then I very glad, Robin.

Thanks. It doesn't do that unless the lens is poor in that area of the field.

I agree, nothing is in focus on the top crop, so it's not a back or front focus issue, likely just a resolution problem of lens. This is not "minor" regarding focus, and it doesn't look like a focus problem.

-- hide signature --

Renato. http://www.flickr.com/photos/rhlpedrosa/ OnExposure member http://www.onexposure.net/ Good shooting and good luck (after Ed Murrow)

 rhlpetrus's gear list:rhlpetrus's gear list
Nikon D7000 Nikon 1 V1 Nikon AF-S DX Nikkor 12-24mm f/4G ED-IF Nikon AF Nikkor 35mm f/2D Nikon AF-S Nikkor 70-300mm f/4.5-5.6G VR +3 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
BassFisher
Regular MemberPosts: 254Gear list
Like?
Re: Nikon vs.Apple
In reply to Shotcents, Feb 15, 2013

Shotcents wrote:

I own a quad core i7 Mac that cost a bit over 3K. Some months ago Apple sent me an e-mail. It said that the hard drive in my system might have a flaw that would effect it's longevity. They provided info for me to check the system and drive and a number that entitled me to a free drive replacement.

I brought the CPU to the local Apple store and 3 days later I picked up my Mac with it's new drive. All of my files and software were replaced (I had backed them up) and the store gave me a 25 dollar gift card.

Can anyone imagine Nikon behaving this way?

I called Nikon about the AF issue twice and both times they were far from understanding. We've all seen the posts from people sending cameras in 3 times. Or Nikon claims the AF points are fine. Or they say it has impact damage.

As a consumer I should not be AFRAID to use my warranty.

Just how much dynamite has to go off between your ears before you become clear-headed about this stuff?

Robert

Actually Nikon did better than this some years ago when they had a battery problem they actually shipped new batteries out to customers BEFORE they had to send theirs back (freight paid by NIKON) just so their customers were not without their cameras.

So far all my experiences with NIKON, including service, has been positive.

-- hide signature --

BillD
Sydney, Australia
Time is the only thing I don't have enough of.

 BassFisher's gear list:BassFisher's gear list
Nikon D810 Nikon AF-S Nikkor 70-200mm f/2.8G ED VR Nikon AF-S Nikkor 14-24mm f/2.8G ED Nikon AF-S Nikkor 24-70mm f/2.8G ED Nikon AF-S Micro-Nikkor 60mm f/2.8G ED +2 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
papparazzi
Senior MemberPosts: 1,937Gear list
Like?
Re: This is funny
In reply to sandy b, Feb 15, 2013

sandy b wrote:

After seeing an INCREDIBLE amount of Nikon bashing from you through the years.

Bashing from a Nikon owner...that's a new one!  BAH!

-- hide signature --
 papparazzi's gear list:papparazzi's gear list
Nikon D600
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
papparazzi
Senior MemberPosts: 1,937Gear list
Like?
Re: Great cameras, Gold Awards, Standard Setting Image Quality, the Usual Stuff.
In reply to Reilly Diefenbach, Feb 15, 2013

Reilly Diefenbach wrote:

No, no, complain loud and long. Very theraputic, I'm sure, so have at it. Return all the "defective" cameras you want and post a second hundred threads about it. Have fun with it. Robert is here for you. He cares, deeply.

I don't.

Over and out.

The big "L". google it.

-- hide signature --
 papparazzi's gear list:papparazzi's gear list
Nikon D600
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
papparazzi
Senior MemberPosts: 1,937Gear list
Like?
Re: Hey new guy
In reply to sandy b, Feb 15, 2013

sandy b wrote:

WE have been hearing about it from the same usual suspects ad nauseum, hijacking threads, houdreds, no thousands of posts by the same core over and over again. And WE are sick of it. The rules say post about an issue ONCE, then leave it be. These guys posts HUNDREDS of times, to hijack the board with dozens of anti Nikon posts.

It's all a conspiracy! .................................

-- hide signature --
 papparazzi's gear list:papparazzi's gear list
Nikon D600
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
FtoDin5min
Regular MemberPosts: 401Gear list
Like?
My biggest problem with Nikon is me...
In reply to Shotcents, Feb 15, 2013

I bought 2 D800s in march last year, first batch coming out. The last camera I used was a D200 for family pics (but hardly used it). For 8 years, starting about 27 years ago, I was a professional photographer (architecture, using pentax and later Nikon F4 as well). Working in a very very different field since, and only took family pics since.

When I first got these D800s and had not heard about this left AF issue, hence having no doubt in my mind about the efficiency of the AF, I was banging my head about why I could not get a good picture out of my brand new super duper D800. It could only be me, but again, it was not like I did not have any technique behind.

So, only doubting me, I tweaked my technique, learned the settings that suited me best. And it was a real learning curve. It took a couple of months. During these two months, the left AF issue came out. I bought lensalign and reikan focal, AF fine tune my bodies, became crazy and tested and retested my left sensors... looked like I didn't have the dreaded issue.

Result is:

- I had to really adjust my technique and settings preferences

- A little of AF Fine tune

and now I have tack sharp pictures on a very consistent basis. I do have occasional misses but really not many and can never say what the causes of them are...

I still have an unexplained problem persisting with one body (and I have not tested the other one for it) : some polarization in blue skies sometimes (on raw files viewed across multiple platforms and softwares as well as on jpeg max quality). Polarization also shows on analysis of the raw file too.

Also my zoom AF Fine tune is not constant across focal length. I understand this is a typical problem but it is really annoying in some cases

Although the D800 is not expensive, Nikon is lucky that people who buy them probably study a bit more their purchase than for a cheaper camera, and hence may not be overwhelmed by the amount of contradicting info from unreliable sources.

Overall, once you really learn how to use this camera, it is truly unbelievable. But there is a very steep learning curve. Hadn't I invested the time in improving my technique, or had I read these forums about these focusing issues before realizing my technique needed to adapt (therefore thinking the misses were probably explained by the cameras poor quality), these bodies would have probably ended up dusty on a shelf...

I cannot compare the picture I took at the beginning to the ones I took after finding my way.

There is no doubt that some left AF problem exist, and by the sound of it Nikon service really sucks (I was myself less than impressed with their response to the polarization issue). But I have to say it is very hard for me to detect what comes from lack of experience on this specific camera, real problems, and internet frenziness/trolling.

An (old) idea to the mods: if you limit the threads talking about the problems to 1 per problem (maybe allowing only these specific threads to go beyond the 150 mark), I have no doubt that the trolling and fake info would get bored of feeding the same space. And you would be left there mostly with genuine input. Trolls/fake/spam love to start new threads every two minutes and be visible. This is why they are doing it. Problem is that sometimes these guys are good and do look genuine...

Best,

-- hide signature --

FTD5

 FtoDin5min's gear list:FtoDin5min's gear list
Nikon D800 Nikon AF-S Nikkor 24-70mm f/2.8G ED Nikon AF-S Nikkor 85mm f/1.4G Nikon AF-S Nikkor 70-200mm f/4G ED VR Adobe Photoshop CS6 extended +5 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
sandy b
Veteran MemberPosts: 7,655Gear list
Like?
Re: This is funny
In reply to papparazzi, Feb 15, 2013

Sorry, this was not to be directed at you, I know you don't bash, and are a dual system user. This thread got me worked up, clicked where I shouldn't have. I apologise.

 sandy b's gear list:sandy b's gear list
Nikon Coolpix P330 Nikon D7000 Nikon D600 Nikon AF-S Nikkor 70-300mm f/4.5-5.6G VR Nikon AF-S Teleconverter TC-14E II +3 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
olindacat
Regular MemberPosts: 200Gear list
Like?
Re: What has happened to Nikon?
In reply to shigzeo, Feb 15, 2013

shigzeo ? wrote:


I'm quite drunk. My wife passed two bottles of Sambuca to me thanks to Valentine's Day (in Japan, girls give presents to boys on Vanlentine's Day. March 14 is the day when boys give girls things; that is called White Day).

I, too, have a D800, which I use professionally and for hobby work.

I have only this to say of the D800 vs. the D200 and the FE/FM which I also use. Nikon used to compete with Zeiss/Ikon. In the 1980's there was no one left from abroad. They competed with only Canon. That is the problem. Japanese companies make good things when there is competition from abroad. Left to their own devices, they cheapen everything completely. Our house is basically made of plastic and if someone upstairs stubs a toe, we hear it. If they cough, we hear it.

Japan is a country that originally wanted to rip off stuff. Then, when they had the money to make money, they wanted only to cheapen stuff in order to make more money, or take a larger market share. The illusion is that Japan is a society that makes high quality stuff. They make precise stuff, not quality stuff.

Come live here. It is full of kitsch more than any other nation I've lived in, including Korea, which is more technologically advanced in the cities than Japan is. Korea still looks abroad to design, to innovate. Japan is as insular as any country in modern history ever has been.

If/when they can bypass said insularity, they will return to making great things. Now, every company that makes: computers, cars, cameras, is only a copy of another. Nikon is to Canon as Canon is to Nikon. (Add 'are' for English speakers. Remember, I'm drunk. My arguments return to base sentiments as my blood flows black (the Sambuca is black).)

There are chief differences in Nikon's roots compared to Canon's. Canon, primarily are engaged in their own production. Nikon are an imaging company who outsource parts to other companies. But at base, their cameras are the same as Canon's. The cheapening of manufacturing has led to this situation. The two are equal.

However, today, Canon seem to make cameras with a bit more follow through than Nikon do. I use Nikon gear exclusively for digital. For film, I use a Canon P rangefinder plus a Yashica Electro. Nikon's early film SLR stuff was great. So, too, were their rangefinders. Enter the 1980's, when AF, plastic, and the cheapening of parts became rampant, and quality quickly deteriorated. Guess who was at the helm? Not the Germans. No. The Japanese.

Japan simply loves plastic. The pipes in every one of the rooms in our house are made of PVC. They clog on a weekly basis. The windows are single paned at best. There is NO insulation anywhere. Japanese combat these design inequalities by building more efficient electronics, not by equipping original equipment (houses, cars, cameras) with better, more efficient design.

Why?

Because Japan is a society more dominated by corporation than any other rich nation. Corporations dictate every aspect of life here. That means: above all, profit is king. Not safety. Not longevity. Not thoroughness. Now, before you say the USA and Germany are the same, let me remind you, that in the USA you still have government wings in the postal system, the train system, etc. Japan has done away with these things. The last bastion of public anything is health, in which the government guaratnees (thankfully) that an individual will never have to pay more than 1000$ per month on any health/hospitalised related issue.

That is still far more expensive than what an individual will pay in Canada or Germany.

Because the consumer isn't important in Japan and because the corporation dictates the laws in this country, things will only cheapen. Unless there is 2nd coming quality and leadership from abroad, things will only get worse.

Japan was never a leader in quality. They were a leader in automation, in cheapening, in mass production. We are past those milestones in industrialisation. Forget it. Today, the majority of flats are built at factory then shipped to site. If things go wrong, they go up wrong. Earthquakes are common, and other natural disasters. Those are the only things against which Japanese companies plan. Everything else is this: cheap, quick, and many.

Nikon will become nothing more than a plastic fantastic in a few years no matter that they started as a feisty optical company.

I lived in Korea for two years. It pains me to say that Korea will surpass Japan. Korea is run even more so by corporate oligarchy. Samsung and Hyundai dominate the country in a two party hydra head. You can't buy anything in the country that hasn't been touched by one or the other. But they will surpass Japan, whose leadership in cheapening of products and services, will be their downfall - will be the downfall of the free market driven political base abroad.

Things are cheap. Things are not researched. Things are made only to make money, not to leave a mark. That is how they are. That is how they will remain. Welcome to a Japan/Korea/China dominated economy.

You should drink more often. What a brave, refreshing and honest little essay. One lone liberal fed-up voice speaking up against the conservative imperial rulers. That's nerve, and it takes a few tips of the glass to sometimes rustle up that kind of courage. It's like when someone here bitches about Nikon QC or service: it always brings out the nastiest bunch on these forums. I don't know about anyone else, but I don't always relish posting here because it's an open invitation to bring on a onslaught of truly creative sniping and relentless belligerence. Still, this is a forum and as such we all just have to take the good with the rotten apples. I, for one, believe in a collective voice -- good or bad. I think Nikon's QC is as bad as anyone's, and I went out of my way to buy coverage so I could avoid even dealing with their CSRs entirely (that's another story). I think my D800E blows my D2X out of the water, as a tool -- to make pictures with incredible amounts of latitude in the 'darkroom'. Do I have sympathy for the OP's qualms about using his warranty? Absolutely. I will say it without hesitation that the ikon people will totally deny anything is wrong with their cameras until MacArthur is exhumed. Then, only with a gun to their heads, will they come clean and waive the white flag. Still, I use the D800E and even in a pinch, when I had to endure the crappy oil-spotted files I got out of an emergency D600 back-up, I get'er done. My D2X was a far 'better' build than my D800E or the D600 I was thrilled to return, but if I had to chose between build or image quality, focus issues or not, I'd take the files of even the greasy, dirty, yet according to most here flawlessly perfect D600. Yep: I just cloned out that little spot in the upper left of every shot I needed to use. No biggie. These are just tools you know. We don't make babies with our gear, just shoot them, right? I hope people bitch, rant, rave if there is even a tiny bit of truth to it. And, while I know this is never going to happen, I wish those who most enjoy passing judgement on others would just quit being so hostile and personal every time someone wants to rant a little. What's the big deal if they do? It's only their opinion. Attacking someone for voicing their opinion is, quite frankly, rather Nazi-like.

 olindacat's gear list:olindacat's gear list
Nikon Coolpix AW100 Nikon D800E Nikon AF-S Nikkor 70-200mm f/2.8G ED VR Nikon AF-S Nikkor 14-24mm f/2.8G ED Nikon AF-S Nikkor 24-70mm f/2.8G ED +3 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Keyboard shortcuts:
FForum MMy threads