Olympus trys to Calm our fears once more

Started Feb 14, 2013 | Discussions
loleq
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Re: Is it enough?
In reply to alatchin, Feb 15, 2013

alatchin wrote:


But, with the release of a new body, I am set

The images look as if they are from 70's. Is it the art filters that did it? Very nice!



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Darrell500
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Re: For a change...
In reply to alatchin, Feb 15, 2013

alatchin wrote:

CollBaxter wrote:

This is one of the most concrete statements that Olympus has come out with for a while. And actually I believe them for a change.

The Nay Sayers will of course come up with a zillion reasons why I am wrong. But if you go and look at these posters posting history they are sticking to the party line and will continue even if Olympus released a camera tomorrow. We have the vested interest Nay Sayer group who see any DSLR development pulling off resources from m4/3 and in doing so are stealing from them.

Isnt that group a funny one, they want high end lenses fro Olympus but dont want access to the HG line, a superb set of lenses, excellent value for money.

We have those who are scared that a new release would have them doubting their decision to move to another system.

Here is one of the most entrenched groups, they love olympus, and they hate olympus. Seeing a new high end body release would leave them questioning the money they spent on switching systems, so they watch, and secretly hope. Of course, no matter how good the new camera they will be here posting equivalent numbers, DXO marks and the like.

Then we have the financial geniuses who have done the math and give us all the reasons why its impractical to spend money on a system that exists.

These are the funniest group to me. They simply look at the bottom line and assume that after all the money that has been spent creating the 43rds format, the bodies, lenses and userbase, and now they have better volume in m43rds with potential upgraders they will simply ditch the mount and start again in m43rds... The real bean counters will simply not let it happen. In business you maximise your existing investments.

This group will say things like "the 43rds userbase is nil" and "everyone is abandoning the system" well, where are all the cameras and bodies?? I would snap up a firesale E-5, but no, there are plenty of others out there willing to pay more than me for the body... so I dont have one. I and many others would buy their new DSLR for all the advancements it would put behind my lenses, and it would cost me less than switching systems and buying new lesnses.

There are many more but I actually think the strangest are the ' I told you so." crew who have no other reason than to say " I told you so."

Me for a change I believe Olympus. The words spending less on 4/3 DSLR and compact development I read differently. There have been not new products for 3 years. Olympus could have incurred development costs on what ever they are going to release. Keeping in mind that those costs for a product released today would have been incurred over the last 2 years during development tooling and manufacturing stages. What they could be saying is that there they will be slowing down any future development. We don't know what Olympus has spent on DSLR development. ( The Nay Sayer will say zip)

Remember the Leaked Slide

New E

New OMD

New Up Market compact

As to the compact market the last slew of bottom end compacts that came out where probably in production already before the rationalization and where brought to market to get shot of them. Olympus will continue with the TG series and the ZX and Super zoom stuff but we will not see and bottom sub $200 camera from them again.

Public statements like this will help to calm the jitters I know it has mine and hopefully a few others as well.

You know, i was thinking about this, and hoping I was right about the new body, and my interpretation of all these announcements, then I pop online and see this statement. As bold as one can be, using the word DSLR and stating their commitment.

Olympus are saying don't believe every thing you read in the press or see on TV or hear from the local rep.

And it is about time I would love to see a mock-up of their new body, even if it looks like an E-5, the E-3 was one of the most comfortable cameras I ever owned (the a850 was also very comfortable) and I wouldnt mind owning that form factor again.

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Nothing to add just liked your post enough to repost

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rhlpetrus
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Nikon denies it is ceasing production of film slrs Re: Hold on a minute
In reply to Marty4650, Feb 15, 2013

Marty4650 wrote:

Read this news story carefully:

http://www.dpreview.com/news/2013/02/13/Olympus-denies-ceasing-DSLR-production

It says two things:

  • Olympus denies it is ceasing production of DSLRs
  • Olympus lost $170 million last year on cameras and lenses
The first statement doesn't mean there will be any new 4/3 cameras or lenses. It just means that the E5 will continue in production as long as anyone wants to buy one. And I don't imagine they will sell very many more E5s since they can be had at bargain prices used, as E5 owners switch to other brands or OM-Ds. Are there really many people left who want to spend $1700 for a nice camera with 2008 sensor technology?

They still make them:

http://www.nikonusa.com/en/Nikon-Products/Film-Cameras/index.page

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Marty4650
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What does Nikon have to do with Olympus?
In reply to rhlpetrus, Feb 15, 2013

OK... you provided a link that shows Nikon is still selling 20 year old film cameras. Great. What does that have to do with whether Olympus is still producing the E-5 or merely selling from existing inventory from production runs three years ago?

Are you certain that Nikon is "still producing" those cameras or is just "still selling off remaining inventories?"

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exdeejjjaaaa
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Re: Olympus assures us of a DSLR - and what size?
In reply to DonParrot, Feb 15, 2013

DonParrot wrote:

dave gaines wrote:

For my use, I like the size and weight of the E-5. I can't see how they'd fit all of the easy access creative controls and a swivelling LCD on a smaller body that's as rugged and weather-proof as the E-5.

Well, Pentax proved with the K-7/K-5 that it can be done, didn't they?

and even Panasonic's first try w/ GH3 was not bad

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WhyNot
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Re: What does Nikon have to do with Olympus?
In reply to Marty4650, Feb 15, 2013

Marty4650 wrote:

OK... you provided a link that shows Nikon is still selling 20 year old film cameras. Great. What does that have to do with whether Olympus is still producing the E-5 or merely selling from existing inventory from production runs three years ago?

Are you certain that Nikon is "still producing" those cameras or is just "still selling off remaining inventories?"

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Marty

Just out of curiosity I looked it up.. There are on the Nikon pages listed two film cameras the F6 and the FM10. They can both be purchased from B&H and are in stock – when I looked. Wikipedia says that the FM10 is actually manufactured by Cosina and was based on one of their bodies: however, they also say that the F6 is a genuine Nikon product manufactured in a Nikon factory, I believe, in Japan.

There are a couple points that rhlpetrus might have been alluding to – 1. That Olympus abandoned OM and now is leaving DSLR behind; or 2. Olympus may continue to make the E-5 available for the next decade and still claim to support DSLR.. But then he probably should be answering this himself... I'm just kibitzing..

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IanDavis
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Re: Olympus trys to Calm our fears once more
In reply to alatchin, Feb 15, 2013

If Olympus does end DSLR production completely, I can know that I got 4 comfortable years of shooting with their cameras and will continue to have years shooting unless equipment malfunctions and there is no support from them or a 3rd party. If it ever becomes time to start shooting with another manufacturer, the only issue I'll have is adjusting to shooting in and cropping from 3:2 for my portraiture.

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RobbGee
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Re: Olympus assures us of a DSLR - and what size?
In reply to exdeejjjaaaa, Feb 16, 2013

Hi All

exdeejjjaaaa wrote:

DonParrot wrote:

dave gaines wrote:

For my use, I like the size and weight of the E-5. I can't see how they'd fit all of the easy access creative controls and a swivelling LCD on a smaller body that's as rugged and weather-proof as the E-5.

Well, Pentax proved with the K-7/K-5 that it can be done, didn't they?

and even Panasonic's first try w/ GH3 was not bad

If this logic is developed just a bit more. Just think, where in the market could Olympus launch a new DSLR, that could compete successfully on price and specification.

That is weather resistant bodies and Full HD video for a start!

Entry.........£500..........E-470         V      Pentax K-30.

Mid.............£850.........E-650         V      Pentax K5 II.

Advanced....£2000......E-6             V      Various Canon and Nikon FULL FRAME bodies.

Sorry about using Pentax DSLR's as the yard stick for the lower end of the market, but they are seriously good cameras.

In my heart I am a Oly fan, but logic has directed me to Pentax!

Wish I could be more upbeat for the true believers out there.

Best

RobbGee

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rovingtim
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A hopeful statement: however
In reply to Geo Wharton, Feb 16, 2013

It is possible that by saying they will 'continue to offer' means developing a new camera.

However, these words can also mean they will 'continue to offer' the E5 for as long as demand is there.

There is nothing said here that makes it certain we will see a new body.

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John King
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Re: A hopeful statement: however
In reply to rovingtim, Feb 16, 2013

rovingtim wrote:

It is possible that by saying they will 'continue to offer' means developing a new camera.

However, these words can also mean they will 'continue to offer' the E5 for as long as demand is there.

There is nothing said here that makes it certain we will see a new body.

Other than the plain, clear words in Mr Terada's statement ...

Just forgetting for the moment the forum member who has signed an NDA with Olympus who stated that he was "very happy with what he had seen". Along with Mr Terada, he is probably saying something completely different from what he appears to be saying as well ...

If one were to look for the most convoluted possible meaning in a plain, clear statement, it is conceivably possible that said statement could just possibly, at the margins, maybe, perhaps, have such a construction put on it.

If I had to hazard a guess at the probability of this being a contender for said statement's true meaning, I would suggest it being approximately 1,000,000 to one against. But I could be wrong - it could be 10,000,000 to one against ...

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rovingtim
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Re: A hopeful statement: however
In reply to John King, Feb 16, 2013

I will be pleased to be wrong this time, John.

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zigi_S
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Re: Agree Marty
In reply to Marty4650, Feb 16, 2013

And one more thing. Looks like noone here was hit by the economic downturn. Buisness as usual. Well the tech companies, especially Japanese Tech companies live in the real world and they like most companies gasp for air. It's not competition it's the greatest economic depression ever! That's the main reason for oly's and others bad financial results.

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alatchin
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Re: Olympus assures us of a DSLR - and what size?
In reply to RobbGee, Feb 16, 2013

RobbGee wrote:

Hi All

exdeejjjaaaa wrote:

DonParrot wrote:

dave gaines wrote:

For my use, I like the size and weight of the E-5. I can't see how they'd fit all of the easy access creative controls and a swivelling LCD on a smaller body that's as rugged and weather-proof as the E-5.

Well, Pentax proved with the K-7/K-5 that it can be done, didn't they?

and even Panasonic's first try w/ GH3 was not bad

If this logic is developed just a bit more. Just think, where in the market could Olympus launch a new DSLR, that could compete successfully on price and specification.

That is weather resistant bodies and Full HD video for a start!

Entry.........£500..........E-470 V Pentax K-30.

Mid.............£850.........E-650 V Pentax K5 II.

Advanced....£2000......E-6 V Various Canon and Nikon FULL FRAME bodies.

Sorry about using Pentax DSLR's as the yard stick for the lower end of the market, but they are seriously good cameras.

In my heart I am a Oly fan, but logic has directed me to Pentax!

Not trying to be difficult, while I agree pentax has some nice bodies out there, the really only have a few good zoom lenses compared to 43rds... And in primes, m43rds is starting to really shine.

So, there isnt anything like the 12-60, and there really isnt much like the 50-200, even if the 60-250 comes close, it loses a stop to a half negating much advantage between Pentax's good sensor and a new OMD sensor in a 43rds camera. While being more expensive than the 50-200...

For many 43rds users, those are staple lenses... Now Pentax offers a fair few primes for its users, and nice ones... But instead of changing systems, if you want to shoot with primes there are a lot of nice ones, but expensive compared to say the 17mm f1.8 + 25mm f1.4 + 45mm f1.8 for m43rds, which, as i am doing, I can use my 43rds lenses for a number of applications using the free mmf3 adapter from Oly.

So for me adding m43rds made more sense as I dont have sell my 43rds glass.

Wish I could be more upbeat for the true believers out there.

We dont have to be "believers" I could as easily say we are plagued by converts who regularly revisit their choice to move systems in the Olympus forum, over and over justifying their reasoning and trying to assure themselves of their decisions and expense... Just a point.

Best

RobbGee

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PhotoHawk
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Re: No - optimism must be tempered by realism.
In reply to CollBaxter, Feb 16, 2013

CollBaxter wrote:

My personal belief is Olympus where rolled over by Panasonic with the sensors. It looks like they had some agreement to uses Panasonic sensors exclusively.

I agree with you there.

The 12 MP by the time it hit the E-30 / E-620 was already old ( It was a re fab of the 10MP) .

I'm not sure if it was a refab.  It may not have been a big leap in performance but it did have some progression.

I believe Olympus was initially dragged in m4/3 by Panasonic.

Yes, I think you are right there.  I too don't think u4/3 was really Oly's preferred direction.  But seeing as they would be the only ones left in the 4/3rds camp meant some comprimise was inevitable.  Also Panasonic in u4/3rds may have be able to point to better realisation of the benefits that made the 4/3rds argument a compelling one, save the one on telecentricity.

For 4 years they used the same crappy sensor while Panasonic released new cameras and new sensors. Panasonic also released DSLR bridge type cameras where as Olympus produced a slew of pens with the same sensor in a different box with the best possible cludges to get the best out of them.

Kludge.  Yep, but there were some pretty good kludges.  Still the lack of a competitive sensor did Oly no good there.

The E-5 was the same thing. I believe DSLR development and new products was halted due to the lack of a competitive sensor and not necessarily only sales of product. Its amazing how things have changed since the Sony sensor in the OMD.

I think the E5 is one very good camera - it may have been an excellent one had it been released one or two years earlier.  However the competition has moved on since 2008 and time has certainly made the comparison of the E5 with current cameras decidedly one sided and not in Oly's favour.

As to the Sony sensor, yes that technology has not only affected Olympus but just about every other camera manufacturer for better or worse.  Better if you are using it like Nikon, Pentax, Sony and in 4/3rds format Olympus, not so great generally if you are not using it.

One can only imagine what an updated E5 or E30 would be like if it had the current generation of the Sony sensor.  But once again time moves on and I would hope the same thing that happened with the Panasonic sensor doesn't happen with the Sony/OMD sensor.  In other words that Olympus keeps reusing for the next 3-4 years while the market introduces better, quieter and higher performing technology.

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CollBaxter
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Re: No - optimism must be tempered by realism.
In reply to PhotoHawk, Feb 16, 2013

PhotoHawk wrote:

CollBaxter wrote:

My personal belief is Olympus where rolled over by Panasonic with the sensors. It looks like they had some agreement to uses Panasonic sensors exclusively.

I agree with you there.

The 12 MP by the time it hit the E-30 / E-620 was already old ( It was a re fab of the 10MP) .

I'm not sure if it was a refab. It may not have been a big leap in performance but it did have some progression.

I believe Olympus was initially dragged in m4/3 by Panasonic.

Yes, I think you are right there. I too don't think u4/3 was really Oly's preferred direction. But seeing as they would be the only ones left in the 4/3rds camp meant some comprimise was inevitable. Also Panasonic in u4/3rds may have be able to point to better realisation of the benefits that made the 4/3rds argument a compelling one, save the one on telecentricity.

For 4 years they used the same crappy sensor while Panasonic released new cameras and new sensors. Panasonic also released DSLR bridge type cameras where as Olympus produced a slew of pens with the same sensor in a different box with the best possible cludges to get the best out of them.

Kludge. Yep, but there were some pretty good kludges. Still the lack of a competitive sensor did Oly no good there.

What I meant was  that Olympus through each reiteration of the same sensor Olympus always seemed to suck a bit more out of the sensor , until they got to a point where they flat lined sensor wise.

The E-5 was the same thing. I believe DSLR development and new products was halted due to the lack of a competitive sensor and not necessarily only sales of product. Its amazing how things have changed since the Sony sensor in the OMD.

I think the E5 is one very good camera - it may have been an excellent one had it been released one or two years earlier. However the competition has moved on since 2008 and time has certainly made the comparison of the E5 with current cameras decidedly one sided and not in Oly's favour.

As to the Sony sensor, yes that technology has not only affected Olympus but just about every other camera manufacturer for better or worse. Better if you are using it like Nikon, Pentax, Sony and in 4/3rds format Olympus, not so great generally if you are not using it.

One can only imagine what an updated E5 or E30 would be like if it had the current generation of the Sony sensor. But once again time moves on and I would hope the same thing that happened with the Panasonic sensor doesn't happen with the Sony/OMD sensor. In other words that Olympus keeps reusing for the next 3-4 years while the market introduces better, quieter and higher performing technology.

It has been a difficult road to travel for Olympus with the Old Panasonic  sensor. But in the long run it has done one thing and that they have found out how  to suck the best results out of a sensor where others have have waited for the sensor manufacturer to upgrade with the next iteration. This can bee seen with the OMD where a senor with a smaller pixel pitch equals and betters the same less dense sensor with 30%-40% more surface area.

( Insert DOF / Equivalence posts )  

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RobbGee
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Re: Olympus assures us of a DSLR - and what size?
In reply to alatchin, Feb 17, 2013

Hi alatchin

Just glad you never labelled me as a troll.

The argument was about DSLR bodies rather than glass. I won many photo comps using Oly glass, none with Pentax. So I agree that Oly glass is better.

But, a typical new camera buyer will be looking at the body and kit lens price. In a market place in which Canon and Nikon dominate.

In my 35mm days, I was the only Olympus user in my club. The chairman used Pentax. All the rest Canon EOS and Nikons.

Oly and Pentax are very much in the shaddow of the marketing giants Canon and Nikon. Yet their R & D costs will be the same, for a much smaller market penetration. Eventually some Olympus business studies graduate (B.S.G) using a spread sheet and cold logic will make the decision to pull the plug on future 4/3rds development. This may already have happened!

We, are probabily emotionally connected to our Oly's; the B.S.G. is not.

Lets just hope that I am wrong.

Best

RobbGee

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alatchin
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Re: Olympus assures us of a DSLR - and what size?
In reply to RobbGee, Feb 17, 2013

RobbGee wrote:

Hi alatchin

Just glad you never labelled me as a troll.

Your comment wasn't bad, but to my mind, a bit too focused for the reason you cite below... Price points and cameras are difficult... An olympus user with lots of glass will probably buy a competitive (or close to) olympus body as the $100 he saves would be blown moving to the new system.

The argument was about DSLR bodies rather than glass. I won many photo comps using Oly glass, none with Pentax. So I agree that Oly glass is better.

I am sure you were probably inspired by a genius: http://www.ted.com/talks/elizabeth_gilbert_on_genius.html

But, a typical new camera buyer will be looking at the body and kit lens price. In a market place in which Canon and Nikon dominate.

In my 35mm days, I was the only Olympus user in my club. The chairman used Pentax. All the rest Canon EOS and Nikons.

Oly and Pentax are very much in the shaddow of the marketing giants Canon and Nikon. Yet their R & D costs will be the same, for a much smaller market penetration. Eventually some Olympus business studies graduate (B.S.G) using a spread sheet and cold logic will make the decision to pull the plug on future 4/3rds development. This may already have happened!

While this may be true, is could also be false. Many here make the argument "how long can they lose money before the plug is pulled" to spell impending doom... But there may be 5 more years of camera releases, there could be 15... Companies lose money for all sorts of reasons and justifications, we dont know how Olympus weighs the value of their camera business. The OMD technology with brand new sensor, IBIS and stabilized EVF, improved video and add on tech... Many of these features are simply class leading (EVF in certain applications, IBIS with stabilized viewfinder and stabilized video), the new lenses in m43rds with their unique snap focus concepts... These are not the maneuvers of a camera division in death throws.

We, are probabily emotionally connected to our Oly's; the B.S.G. is not.

Thankfully these types of decisions and made as a collective, and it can take a long time for a group of people to decide on anything. Add to that, it is more likely that Olympus with keep adjusting its approach for a while longer than just dumping huge areas of investment.

What would the BSG (I keep thinking BFG here) think if the camera division says "We know you are pulling the plug on the line of SHG and HG lenses, we would like to redesign and start again"... No way it is more likely they can convince him to let them create the technology to keep selling those lenses. Until then the argument that there is a market for at least 1 $1300-$1500 professional grade body in 43rds could very well be an easy sell if the figures are compelling (and we dont know what they are).

Lets just hope that I am wrong.

Best

RobbGee

Good conversation!

Abraham

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PhotoHawk
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Re: No - optimism must be tempered by realism.
In reply to CollBaxter, Feb 17, 2013

I'm rooting for them Colin.  Olympus is a very good engineering firm and I very much like their cameras.  Sensor aside, they have consistently demonstrated some very good thinking and very good engineering prowess.  It is unfortunate its business management is not up to the task (witness the marketing, financial and ethical snafus).  But that may change.  Keeping my fingers crossed.

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