Got rid of my Sony RX100 – will E-PM2 with kit lens address its shortcomings?

I’m in the market for a ‘compact’ camera with good low light performance and video, and I was initially attracted by all the hype around the Sony RX100. However, the more I used the RX100 the more the compromises Sony made by cramming such a (relatively) large sensor into such a small body started to annoy me. Notably:

- Very poor image stabilisation
- Very soft corners (and the softness starting some distance out from the corners)
- The lens is fast wide open but it stops down 3 stops by the time you’re at 100mm (full tele)

I’ve ended up selling the RX100 and looking at other premium compact options: Panasonic LX7, Canon G15, Olympus XZ-2, Pentax MX-1 – and I’m particularly interested in the Fuji X20 that’s just about to be released.

I’m not really interested in an interchangeable lens system – it just doesn't suit me having to swap lenses. But of course there’s no reason I can’t get an interchangeable lens system and just stick with the kit (or another) lens.

I had this in mind when I came across the E-PM2. What appeals of course is that it has the same sensor as the highly rated EM5, so is image quality and high ISO performance should be good. And in  terms of size and price in compares very well to the other premium compact cameras I was looking at.

I have a few questions though on how the E-PM2 with kit lens compares to an RX100:

- dpReview don’t have and studio shots with the E-PM2, but I did find some of over on the Imaging Resource Comparometer. It shows the E-PM2 comparing favourably to the RX100 even if I take into account it the 2 stops difference in aperture at its widest end if using the kit lens. However, I think the E-PM2 shots there are taken with a prime lens and not the kit lens (like dPreview), so I’m not sure how results would compare with the kit lens.

- Video: I’ve heard some say that you are better off with a Panasonic m43 for video with stabilisation in the lens rather than an Olympus with stabilisation in the body. Is this true? I know the E-PM2 only does 30p, but that’s fine by me. Other than that, any comments on the video quality? The RX100 had very good video.

- Is there a standard zoom lens I should get for the E-PM2 instead of the kit lens?

- I would hope the kit lens on the E-PM2 wouldn't have the degree of corner softness the RX100 had, but it’s difficult to know as neither dpReview or Imaging Resource have done any studio shots to test this so any comments would be appreciated.

- I think it goes without saying that the E-PM2 would have much better image stabilisation than the RX100.

Thank for any feedback.

I don't see a kit zoom being better than a lens that has been optimized for a premium compact.  I wouldn't buy an ILC if I never planned to swap lenses.

For what it's worth, I also had an RX100 that I couldn't warm to and ended up returning to m43 (for my small camera) with an E-PM2.

No doubt, the PM2 is much larger than the RX100 with any kind of lens attached. My favorite combo is the PM2 + 14mm f/2.5, which is quite pocketable but not to the degree of the RX100. I suppose you could put the 15mm bodycap lens on it, but then you're making other compromises.

What I finally realized was that, while size was important, I also really enjoyed the swappable lenses of the m43 system more. I like the fact that I can take an entire kit from 9 mm through 175mm in a tiny bag (PM2 + 9-18mm + 20mm + 45-175mm), and throw in a tiny C-mount Cooke-Kinic for fun. If I really need ultra-portability I just use my phone, which really isn't all that bad for snapshots.

If you employ anti-shock the IBIS on the PM2 is much better than the PM1, and somewhat useful. I don't know about video since I rarely use it.

EDIT: as to IQ, from my understanding the corner softness of the RX100 is due more to field curvature than lack of sharpness. Not that it makes much of a difference most of the time--corners are soft, corners are soft. With a good kit lens (14-45mm) the PM2 gives better results than the RX100, as it should with its larger sensor. And of course the beauty of the system camera is that if you require top-level sharpness you can always mount a 25mm Panny on it, or 50mm f/1.4 Summilux (!).

Choosing what lens to put on the E-PM2 should be easy once you answer yourself these questions:

- do I need low light capability(large apertures)?
- do I need a zoom or should a fixed lens do just fine?
- what's my budget?

You can get away as cheap and compact as 20/1.7 or 45/1.8 or end up wanting a 1200$ lens like 12-35/2.8 or 35-100/2.8, either way if you plan on using only one lens and decided to go the m4/3 way I wouldn't stick to the kit lens.

Personally if I were to choose only one lens on m4/3 I'd get the 25/1.4.
Or go with Fuji x-e1 and their kit lens which would be larger as a whole package but more versatile. Or Fuji x100.

Paul

Just another opinion: putting the 25mm f/1.4 on a PM2 seems to totally defeat the purpose of the small camera. I have no doubt it's great (I own it), but if that were going to be my one lens I'd mount it on something larger, like a G3, G5, or OMD.

So I think the very first question on the list above should be: what lenses will compliment the PM2's small size?

Firstly, the 25/1.4 was only a personal choice based on the asumption that I'd be forced to live for the rest of my life with only one lens. I'm not bothered by the fact that the camera will not fit my jeans back pocket.
Secondly, to answer your question, the only really small lenses are the pancakes 14/17/20 + the mighty cap. Out of these three, I only own the 20 and I'd reccomand it as the only lens if you're willing to live with its slow AF in certain circumstances.
But then again, if you want compact small size and only one lens with large aperture i'd go premium compact.

Thanks andreipaul82 and tjuster1.

It sounds like a premium compact would be the way to go. Of course primes would elevate the E-PM2 well above any of the compacts I am looking at, but it also elevates the price into a different league.

So I will be what the Fuji X20 brings to the table - and I may even have a look at the Canon G1X for its outstanding image quality (although I have been put off by reports of its slow AF).

Thanks again for your comments.

I have the epm1, not the epm2, but it uses the same kit lens and I can tell you that it's an underrated gem, imo. I've been using it for 14 months and always liked its snappy, accurate, whisper-quiet focus, sharpness across the frame and across its FL range and its light weight. I also have the 20mm, which is one of the m4/3 benchmark lenses for sharpness, just to give you an idea about my frame of reference. No, the kit lens is not as sharp as the 20mm, but the gap isn't huge in real world pics (as opposed to lab test results).

The only two concerns with the kit lens are, first and as you know, it's not the brightest lens around (though the excellent high-iso quality of the epm2 largely compensates for that) and, second, sample variation seems to be more than average for this lens (which probably explains why some owners hate it while others love it).

Finally, if you want a prime, then you won't find much better than the aforementioned 20mm. It's a versatile FL imo (wide enough for group/landscape pics and long enough for waist-up/environmental portraits) and produces sharp, contrasty pics in any light and at any aperture. Concerns here are relatively slow focus (though you'd only notice in situations where you really need fast focus; e.g. chasing after kids indoors) and, probably most importantly for you, the focus mechanism produces a very audible noise and is very slow to refocus (indoors) while recording videos.

Hey 2eyesee!

I've already ordered a GF3 + 14 mm pancake lens. Apparently there's a certain compromise in the lens to make it a thin pancake compared to, say, the 25 mm f/1.4. However word on the street is it has fast AF and fast AF is important for shooting kids. Hopefully still a solid lens, even if it's not quite as optically perfect as the 25 mm f/1.4 prime. For me, AF speed is more important than lens sharpness. The most important thing shooting kids is nailing the focus. The corners won't matter if you fail to nail the shot in focus.

After having the benefit of IS in the LX7, I guess I'll just have to compare in the field to see how much a different going unstabilized in m4/3 makes. I have a feeling it won't be as huge a difference because kids are moving subjects so you have to run the camera at a higher shutter speed where IS isn't really considered helpful.

Fyi, apparently the OMD is the king of IS in m4/3 and none of the IBIS on other bodies or the OIS on the lenses really compares to the OMD's IBIS. So say a few folks at least. But going OMD really ups the price point for sure, basically same price as a top APS-C body.

But not having personal experience in m4/3, I don't really have a feel for how premium compact IS compares to IBIS or OIS in m4/3 bodies and lenses.

--
Ted
http://www.flickriver.com/photos/tedchang/?src=dpreview-sig
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First of all although the RX100 still image stabilisation isnt particular good its video stabilisation is very impressive. The EPM2 image stabilisation for video is virtually unusuable, imho.

Personally I think you may well be best off with the Fuji X20 (I have bought the X10). Assuming it is like the X10 it handles much better than the RX100. It is also a good compromise between a 'largish' P+S sensor and a fast lens.

If you are happy with a prime, then M43 is a much better option. If you are adding a standard zoom (assuming a fast zoom is far too big), the competition is much tighter.

If you compare Sony RX100, Fuji X20, EPM2 + standard zoom lens at the long end (35mm equiv)

EPM2 84 @ F11.2

RX100 100 @ F13.4

Fuji X20 118 F11.0

...you can see the Fuji fares well because although it has the smallest sensor, it has the fastest lens.

The kit lens that comes with the E-PM2 will outperform your RX100.

I know this because I've seen sample photos from the RX100, and I can see that the lens has poor corners and and poor contrast. There's some sort of ghosting/haze you can see especially in the corners.

The kit lens on the E-PM2 is sharp if you stop it down to f/8, or f/9 at the telephoto end of it.

Unfortunately, image stabilization on the E-PM2 has issues. Probably, IS works better on compact cameras with lens-based IS.

I agree that a premium compact will be just as good as the e-pm2 if you never switch lenses. The LX7 is a very nice camera from a line of great compacts that has kept evolving, and you can get it for $299 or even less if you look around. Wide lens that is fast throughout the zoom range, nice controls, variable aspect ratios, good iq. A very nice camera for someone who never wants to swap lenses. If you can deal with a little more size and price, the Fuji x10 was a very nice camera too, so the x20 should be interesting. Slightly bigger sensor, slightly slower lens, nice build and lots of manual controls.

Hi Ted!

So our journey to find the best 'compromise' in a camera for our need leads us to crossing paths on another forum!

I'm not actually that concerned about corner to corner sharpness, it was just that the RX100 was so good in the center only to start turning to mush quite some distance from the corner.

Good low light performance is must though, which means either a large sensor or fast lens - or better still both, as you have done.

I don't think I could go down the prime route though. One prime would be too limiting for me - think I'd really need 3 to cover a range of focal lengths, which is way over my budget. If I could afford that though I'd probably just get the Panasonic 12-35mm f/2.8 as my only lens.

Don't you think the 14mm (28mm equivalent) you have selected is a little wide? I would have thought you would choose something in the 17-25mm (34-50mm equivalent) as a first prime for general photography.

For me, I thought an entry-level m43 might be a consideration even with kit lens. It could very well be too - the size, performance and price with of the E-PM2 with kit lens (large sensor, slow lens) is not dissimilar to a premium compact (small sensor, fast lens). But of course as you have come to realise, to get the best out of any interchangeable lens camera does require you to go beyond the kit lens.

So for me at the moment it's just a wait and see at for what Fuji come up with in the X20 that's only a couple of weeks away.

If you jump into m4/3s you're going to gain a lot of size especially if you don't want to be changing lenses.

If you get a PM2 though, Panasonic makes a PZ 14-42mm X (28-84mm equivalent) lens which is about half the size of the kit zoom and although this isn't the sharpest m4/3 zoom lens out there it will for sure outperform the Sony.

Also, look closely at the G15 or XZ-2.  From the samples I've seen I actually considered buying one of them (and decided on the Olympus, actually) until I bought a PEN.

--
ysamail01-dpreview@yahoo.com

How so?  Do any of the other cameras suffer from the same issues?

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ysamail01-dpreview@yahoo.com

That's not what I said. The kit lens on the E-PM2 is, I think, better if you stop it down than you get with compact cameras like the RX100. Just my opinion, but I think I'm good at pixel peeping. (At some focal lengths, it's not very good wide open.)

Yes, I think that if the OP spends $499 for an E-PM2 he will get what he's looking for, albeit with Image Stabilization that may not work, see this E-PM2 review.

I have the RX100 and still use it in cases where I need a really light camera (climbing) but also recently picked up the E-PM2 with the kit lens and a bunch of gorgeous oly primes including the 12, 17, 45 and 75mm.

IMHO the Olympus will do a better job in most cases than the RX100, even with the relatively cheap 14-42mm lens. The one thing I like about the RX100 is that you can shoot at f/2 and get some serious DOF due to the small sensor. This is handy for low light situations. Of course the blessing is also a curse since the smaller sensor doesn't do high ISO as well as the 4/3, especially in shadow areas. It's a real toss up if you're better off with the f/1.8 of the RX100 or the larger sensor of the E-PM2 for low light.

Obviously once you start putting some of those silver primes on the Olympus the IQ starts pulling away from the RX100 pretty darn quick. I just printed a pretty big panorama from the RX100 (10"x30") and I still think it's an amazing little camera in some cases.

--
Vern Dewit
Calgary, Alberta Canada
http://www.explor8ion.com
http://verndewit.com/

If you're really adverse to changing lenes Think the E-PM2 And the Olympus 14-150mm f/4.0-5.6 Zoom Lens
Might do it.
For any kind of dynamic range you just need the bigger M4/3  sensor;
- and if your adverse to switching lenses, the 14-150 should work
I am partial to shirt pocket P&S; love the small size but , due to low Image quality, finally got an e-PL1 (refurbished) with a 40-150 ( used)
take it everywhere, works great !

Good luck

I loved my RX100, although the use of the past tense is as it got knocked out of my hand the other day and is off for repair. I'll love it again when it comes back, well if Sony fix it okay that is. I was happy with the still quality and the 28Mb/s video mode is great. Also I was happy with the stabiliser, especially for video.

For alternatives one thing to decide is how much you want a viewfinder, for when the sun is out and to have a more solid position holding the camera. Also budget coems into it.

Some suggestions to add to your current collection:

Canon G1X, I'm not the biggest fan, but the lens is good and the sensor large. AF not record-breaking though. Canon probably have the best IS of anybody.

Fuji X-E1 with the very sharp 18-55 lens permanently left attached, again the AF isn't the greatest (though not at all bad), but the picture quality is and the (stabilised) lens is excellent (and quite fast).

Nikon V1 with the 10-30. You get an EVF, 10fps with full AF (or 60fps full-res bursts with no between-shot AF), the lenses (10-30, 30-110) are very sharp (not the fastest) and it's cheap as chips right now. Probably the best thing out there to photograph kids with.

E-PM2 with the 12-35 Panasonic lens would be good, but not cheap or that tiny.

Wait a couple of weeks (a month?) to see if a Panasonic GX2 comes out, the GX1s are getting heavily discounted right now.

Remember the m43 lenses tend to be designed with a fair bit of distortion and use software correction to fix it, which will lower the edge sharpness somewhat too.

John

I use the Panasonic PZ 14-42mm X on an EPL5.  It's a nice, versatile, small combination. The image quality from the PZ 14-42 is comparable to that of the other Panasonic and Oly kit lenses, but the PZ is essentially a pancake (when not expanded for use) -- much smaller to drop in a bag or coat pocket than the Oly kit lenses.