Things I need to say as a MOD. / Opinions are welcome.

Started Feb 10, 2013 | Discussions
Aleo Veuliah
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Things I need to say as a MOD. / Opinions are welcome.
Feb 10, 2013

Greetings to all.

First I want to say that I am the same person and act the same way being a moderator or not. I will not change my opinions just for having the Mod on my user name. Thing that I have appreciated for transparency, it is good that users know who are the moderators.

I use Dpreview for a long time since 2001 when I had other user name, but I decided to change for my real name and this account was made in 2008 when I moved into Micro 4/3 System. I always try to be friendly and I never had an ignore on my ignore list.

This Micro Four Thirds forum is one of the best on Dpreview and people in general are friendly and useful to each others and to the new members. Of course that with lot's of users and post's, things sometimes can warm up a bit, but I think the users behavior here is not bad at all, I hope it will stay this way for many years.


What I will try to avoid:

  • Ban a user. I think some deserve this but is a thing that I hope to not have to do many times.
  • Delete post's. I have already deleted some when there are real complains and when I see any kind of offenses or trolling on purpose. It is better to delete them than ban, this way things usually calm down.
  • Deleting post's with complaints without a real reason, or complaints for personal reasons between the users. That is why we have the option to ignore complaints.

Things I need to clarify:

  • First the Off topic issue. This is a very sensible rule, because on all forums users build friendship and they like to say things even if they are off topic, because the forum is the place where they like to communicate and not always they have to show or say things only about the forum topic, and they will not go to other forum where they don't feel so at home to post those OT issues. I will be sensible to that, because some off topic threads in fact are good and can contribute to good information about photography and they could be helpful. Of course this does not apply to some kind's of OT threads like asking on Micro 4/3 if a Nikon D800 is better than a Canon 5D MkII. I think I made my point and all understand what I said. If you have doubts before posting a useful off topic thread please send me a PM first. (I also know that the majority of the moderators are sensible to this off topic issue)
  • The complaints. Please complain but wisely, complaining wisely is a good help to us moderators and admins. If the reason to complain is severe send a PM too explaining well your reason for the complain. This is really helpful, I already have deleted a post containing an URL address that linked some pictures to malware sites, and the user that have send me the complain had the computer infected. I have checked the URL and the user was right. (I have not banned the user because it have not done it on purpose, it was a google search of images, google should take care of this but they not). I have discussed this with an Admin and he said I have done the right thing. But if I see something done on purpose I will ban permanently.
  • When you have to say something with humor and not to offend, try to make it clear that you are just kidding a bit. This will avoid many misunderstandings.
  • Please avoid to use words a bit harsh to the more sensible ones. (words like idiot, stupid, and others)
  • If you feel that a moderator have been really unfair to you, feel free to send a PM to an Admin explaining your reasons.
  • Sometimes is better to lock a thread that delete it. This will avoid further not welcome discussions.
that I enjoy to participate.this is a good forum, I have not much to add here, as I said Fortunately
.Try to not post more than 10 pictures at once made a separate post on the same thread containing the rest of the pictures, Dpreview will thank you for that. pleaseOnly want to add that if you have to post many pictures


Forum RulesFor the new ones here is the address to the
Note: Please treat me like another user not like a moderator.
.If you have opinions or suggestions post here on this thread
All the best.
Aleo
 
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Aleo Veuliah
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Re: Forum rules here for the lazy ones. :)
In reply to Aleo Veuliah, Feb 10, 2013

DPReview.com Forums Rules

In posting a message you are agreeing to the rules laid out below. Please take some time to read the full rules and understand them before posting. If you do not agree to the rules, do not post.

The forums operate with light moderation, but we do have a flagging / complaint system and a team of moderators and admins, and we investigate every single complaint. We reserve the right to remove, modify or move messages at any time. If you continuously flout our rules you also risk being temporarily or permanently banned. Our decision is final in these matters.

The forums are provided as a free service; please don't ruin them for everyone else. IP addresses, user ID and email addresses are recorded with each message. Please also refer to the full Conditions of Use. Have a complaint about a particular poster? Contact us immediately, don't antagonize the situation by replying.

You should read the rules below and understand them before posting

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Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication.
Pure logic is the ruin of the spirit.
Imagination is more important than knowledge.
God is the tangential point between zero and infinity.
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Photo Grapher
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Re: Things I need to say as a MOD. / Opinions are welcome.
In reply to Aleo Veuliah, Feb 10, 2013

Hi Aleo,

Still awake .... working on the computer.

I waked up now, I am going to a small trip with friends.

You made your points right, I liked the way you wrote this, and I think you said the essential.

A kiss.

See you later.

Ilda Sofia.

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rrr_hhh
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Re: Things I need to say as a MOD. / Opinions are welcome.
In reply to Aleo Veuliah, Feb 10, 2013

Aleo Veuliah wrote:

.Try to not post more than 10 pictures at once made a separate post on the same thread containing the rest of the pictures, Dpreview will thank you for that. pleaseOnly want to add that if you have to post many pictures .If you have opinions or suggestions post here on this thread

Hi Aleo, a lot of your time to moderate this list and thanks for making your guidelines transparent. We all appreciate your involvement.partThanks for dedicating
As for suggestions, I'd have one : that people trim the unneeded text when they use "reply with quote"; there is nothing more noyous than having a page long quote with just a one liner answer at the end.
This is especially true when the original post includes lots of pictures and several users just click the "reply with quote" to add some useless polite comments like "very nice" or "beautiful series" or "great pictures" etc. why add all those pictures again when when there is no particular comment addressing a single picture. "Reply without quote" should be in order there. Or only keep the pictures on which you want to comment on in your answer. What good is it to have the original poster put his pictures in a second post when we get 15 untrimmed reply with quotes to that second post ? People answering without trimming should be educated, just like people posting many pictures have been educated to post them in a second following post. 
Given the propension of people to use the "reply with quotes" option and make one liner appreciation on pictures sets, I find that 5 pictures rather than 10 should be the upper limit. People having more to show can always add a link to their gallery.
After all posting too many pictures in the same posts doesn't bring so many interesting comments on each individual pictures, so in the end it isn't in the interest of the photographer to add too many pictures in the same thread.
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Hen3ry
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Re: Things I need to say as a MOD. / Opinions are welcome.
In reply to Aleo Veuliah, Feb 10, 2013

Thanks for the explanation, Aleo, thanks for your moderate moderators outlook, and thanks for taking on the job!

Cheers, geoff

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Aleo Veuliah
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Re: I agree, trimming is good.
In reply to rrr_hhh, Feb 10, 2013

Hi,

Thank you for the reply and suggestion. Trimming is good, I will try to advice people to do that.

I must confess that sometimes I forget to trimming well, but I will go to improve on that.

Your participation here is appreciated, you are always helpful and in a good manner.

Best.

Aleo

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Aleo Veuliah
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Re: Things I need to say as a MOD. / Opinions are welcome.
In reply to Hen3ry, Feb 10, 2013

Hen3ry wrote:

Thanks for the explanation, Aleo, thanks for your moderate moderators outlook, and thanks for taking on the job!

Cheers, geoff

Thank you Geoffrey, I am glad that some people appreciate my work here. After all is not a paid one. I do it for pleasure and for the good of the forum.

You are also a very welcome person here, that shows good pictures and say interesting things with a good humor.


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Detail Man
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Re: Things I need to say as a MOD. / Opinions are welcome.
In reply to Aleo Veuliah, Feb 10, 2013

Aleo Veuliah wrote:

Sometimes is better to lock a thread that delete it. This will avoid further now welcome discussions.

(Perhaps) your use of the term "now" is a typographical error ? What did you intend to write ?

Their exists a distinct problem regarding ambiguity of intended message (by the responsible moderator or administrator taking an action) when a thread is deleted, locked, or moved.

If the member who published a post(s) that led to such actions being taken is privately informed (by a moderator or administrator), that is a good thing - because it demonstrates moderator or administrator accountability for the particular action taken, and (desirably) also provides a moderator or administrator explanation for the particular action taken.

However, (due to the existence of Forum Rule #2), that information cannot be publicly communicated to any other members. As a result of this unfortunate situation, the vast majority of members and readers may well have no specific idea regarding the identity of the moderator or administrator who took such an action, or (equally importantly) why that moderator or administrator took such an action.

Whereas deleting a thread removes all comments by members who posted to the thread, locking a thread allows some members to have commented, but does not allow other members an opportunity to comment. Moving a thread to another forum without public notice can and does cause memebers to think that a particular thread has been deleted - when it has not been deleted.

There may exist members who wish to continue to discuss some of the subject(s) raised in a deleted or locked thread - but without information provided to members by the responsible moderator or administrator, members often have little or no specific idea what may have lead to the action taken.

In order that DPReview members be able to understand the specific root causes of such moderator or administrator actions, it would be a very good idea (and would be a reasonable and coherent policy/procedure) to provide a public moderator/administrator notice (posted on the affected forum) whenever a thread is either deleted, locked, or moved to another forum.

Without such procedures (involving moderators/administrators publicly communicating with members and readers) being followed, little may be learned from (and thus accomplished by) such actions.

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Martin.au
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Re: Things I need to say as a MOD. / Opinions are welcome.
In reply to Aleo Veuliah, Feb 10, 2013

Keep up the good work. This is a fun forum.

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jimoyer
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Re: Things I need to say as a MOD. / Opinions are welcome.
In reply to Aleo Veuliah, Feb 10, 2013

Aleo,

I'm a member at several online forums of varying topics and interests.  All have their mods.  You're one of the best I've seen.  Keep doing what you're doing.

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Paul De Bra
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Thanks for your effort, and a small question.
In reply to Aleo Veuliah, Feb 10, 2013

I fully realize that it takes up your valuable time to do moderation. I was asked to moderate the Fujifilm forum just when I was moving to m43 and abandoning Fuji so I declined (or you might say escaped...).

I am not a complainer so I almost never hit the complain button but I do get mildly annoyed at the by now many postings that contain absolutely no information about m43 because it is just people showing small size images of where they have been with their m43 camera, without any information in the images or the text that makes anyone any wiser about the capabilities or possible issues with any m43 gear.

So perhaps it is possible to either have something in the forum heading or in a regular form of posting to keep forum visitors alert that this forum is not the "look where I have been shooting with my m43 camera" forum but that the forum is about the camera (and lenses). Maybe you could even make people aware that when it's the photos and photo opportunities and techniques that are the topic and not the gear dpreview has around 10 forums dedicated to those topics.

In every posting I look for information about the m43 gear and it's a pity that many threads that are started here (and that are not marked as OT) do not say anything about the m43 gear.

Thanks again for you moderation efforts.

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acahaya
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Re: Things I need to say as a MOD. / Opinions are welcome.
In reply to Aleo Veuliah, Feb 10, 2013

Aleo, you (and Jay) are doing a very good job here. Thanks for all the effort and for dedicating your time to make this forum a good and relatively friendly place.

I fully support rrr_hhh's quest to not always reply with full quotes including images. When browsing with limited bandwidth this makes the posts awfully slow to load.

I also support Detail Man's suggestion to add a note when you had to delete a post or a thread (unless it was obviously spam). Same thing for moved threads, it is a bit annoying if you answered in a thread that is suddenly gone from the forum and you don't know if it is in thread nirvana or in another forum.

Regarding the image threads: To me they are a bonus, like the salt in the otherwise very technical soup. But for those intersted in system discussions only, the idea to add a images only tag to the title as sugegsted by Pauls is probably a good idea.

Have a nice Sunday,

Sabine

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Aleo Veuliah
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Re: Thank you DM.
In reply to Detail Man, Feb 10, 2013

Detail Man wrote:

Aleo Veuliah wrote:

Sometimes is better to lock a thread that delete it. This will avoid further now welcome discussions.

(Perhaps) your use of the term "now" is a typographical error ? What did you intend to write ?

You really are a Detail Man, thank you for pointing this, I already corrected, I intended to type not.

Their exists a distinct problem regarding ambiguity of intended message (by the responsible moderator or administrator taking an action) when a thread is deleted, locked, or moved.

If the member who published a post(s) that led to such actions being taken is privately informed (by a moderator or administrator), that is a good thing - because it demonstrates moderator or administrator accountability for the particular action taken, and (desirably) also provides a moderator or administrator explanation for the particular action taken.

Agreed.

However, (due to the existence of Forum Rule #2), that information cannot be publicly communicated to any other members. As a result of this unfortunate situation, the vast majority of members and readers may well have no specific idea regarding the identity of the moderator or administrator who took such an action, or (equally importantly) why that moderator or administrator took such an action.

True, but to me it depends on the way the user put the issue on a thread or post.

Whereas deleting a thread removes all comments by members who posted to the thread, locking a thread allows some members to have commented, but does not allow other members an opportunity to comment. Moving a thread to another forum without public notice can and does cause memebers to think that a particular thread has been deleted - when it has not been deleted.

There may exist members who wish to continue to discuss some of the subject(s) raised in a deleted or locked thread - but without information provided to members by the responsible moderator or administrator, members often have little or no specific idea what may have lead to the action taken.

In order that DPReview members be able to understand the specific root causes of such moderator or administrator actions, it would be a very good idea (and would be a reasonable and coherent policy/procedure) to provide a public moderator/administrator notice (posted on the affected forum) whenever a thread is either deleted, locked, or moved to another forum.

Dpreview is working on new features for moderation, at least I read that. Hope they implement some facilities that will make easier for moderators to inform users in a better way of what happened.

Without such procedures (involving moderators/administrators publicly communicating with members and readers) being followed, little may be learned from (and thus accomplished by) such actions.

I have appreciated your opinion DM. Thank you for replying.


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Aleo Veuliah
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Re: Thank you Mjankor. I will. / No text.
In reply to Martin.au, Feb 10, 2013

Mjankor wrote:

Keep up the good work. This is a fun forum.


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Imagination is more important than knowledge.
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rrr_hhh
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Re: Things I need to say as a MOD. / Opinions are welcome.
In reply to Detail Man, Feb 10, 2013

Remarks that what you want (an explaining post for each moderator's action) is asking too much, aka would be too time consuming given the high number of posts to browse and the fact that moderators are unpaid workers.  Plus it would inevitably call debates a upon the moderator's actions which is against the rules.

We can always do better, but what is done is ressource dependent, so compromises have to be made. That the original poster get a private mail is already a good thing. I find it good that it remains private.

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Kuppenbender
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Re: Things I need to say as a MOD. / Opinions are welcome.
In reply to rrr_hhh, Feb 10, 2013

rrr_hhh wrote:

As for suggestions, I'd have one : that people trim the unneeded text when they use "reply with quote"; there is nothing more noyous than having a page long quote with just a one liner answer at the end.

+1

A little less of the reposting of photos would be appreciated and make getting to the end of threads easier.

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Aleo Veuliah
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Re: Kind words.
In reply to jimoyer, Feb 10, 2013

jimoyer wrote:

Aleo,

I'm a member at several online forums of varying topics and interests. All have their mods. You're one of the best I've seen. Keep doing what you're doing.

Thank you, I feel proud to read a comment like this, hope I can keep the pace, and act always in a good way.

I have been moderator and admin on some forums on my country, and on the first MSN back in 1995 when they had rooms to chat and zones to share files. That had give me some good experience.


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Kuppenbender
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Re: Things I need to say as a MOD. / Opinions are welcome.
In reply to Aleo Veuliah, Feb 10, 2013

Aleo Veuliah wrote:

  • Ban a user. I think some deserve this but is a thing that I hope to not have to do many times.

Quick intervention from moderators will often diffuse 'disagreements' that start to get out of hand. These are the threads that eventually lead to feuding, abusive language and ultimately a ban.

I imagine it's quite a fine line to tread between prudent moderation and the over-zealous kind. So far I've noticed and approved of the recent moderation on this forum.

Thank you, Aleo.

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Detail Man
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Re: Things I need to say as a MOD. / Opinions are welcome.
In reply to rrr_hhh, Feb 10, 2013

rrr_hhh wrote:

Remarks that what you want (an explaining post for each moderator's action) is asking too much, aka would be too time consuming given the high number of posts to browse and the fact that moderators are unpaid workers.

What I actually said in my post related to moderators/adminstrators providing public notice on the affected forum relating only to the following specific actions: thread deletions; thread locks; threads moved. Therefore, your comment appears to be unrelated to what it is that I actually wrote.

Plus it would inevitably call debates a upon the moderator's actions which is against the rules.

My point is precisely that since posting comments relating to or inquiring about moderator or administrator actions is not allowed, there exists no other means by which the responsible moderator or administrator is able to inform DPReview members and readers (who are indeed affected by the deletion, locking, and moving of threads) as to the reason(s) for, and the meaning of, the three specific actions cited above (thread deletion, thread locking, and thread moving).

We can always do better, but what is done is ressource dependent, so compromises have to be made.

Last time I checked, you are neither on DPReview paid staff, nor are you an unpaid volunteer ...

That the original poster get a private mail is already a good thing. I find it good that it remains private.

Nothing that I wrote in any way implies that I am opposed to the responsible moderators or administrators communicating with members whose published posts raise specific issues and lead to specific moderator or administrator action. (Once again), my published comments related entirely to issues of the informing of other (also affected) DPReview members and readers as to relevant issues surrounding thread deletions, locks, and moves on the affected forum.

You might try reading my post again - as very little of what you say is even related to what I wrote.

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Aleo Veuliah
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Re: Thanks for your effort, and a small question.
In reply to Paul De Bra, Feb 10, 2013

Paul De Bra wrote:

I fully realize that it takes up your valuable time to do moderation. I was asked to moderate the Fujifilm forum just when I was moving to m43 and abandoning Fuji so I declined (or you might say escaped...).

Yes it took me some time, but as I work on computers too (besides photography), I am more active when I have to stay at home, doing remote assistance and other things. And it is also good to distract me a bit, I do it for pleasure so no worries.

I am not a complainer so I almost never hit the complain button but I do get mildly annoyed at the by now many postings that contain absolutely no information about m43 because it is just people showing small size images of where they have been with their m43 camera, without any information in the images or the text that makes anyone any wiser about the capabilities or possible issues with any m43 gear.

So perhaps it is possible to either have something in the forum heading or in a regular form of posting to keep forum visitors alert that this forum is not the "look where I have been shooting with my m43 camera" forum but that the forum is about the camera (and lenses). Maybe you could even make people aware that when it's the photos and photo opportunities and techniques that are the topic and not the gear dpreview has around 10 forums dedicated to those topics.

In every posting I look for information about the m43 gear and it's a pity that many threads that are started here (and that are not marked as OT) do not say anything about the m43 gear.

That is a difficult issue indeed, and I agree with you, for now the best to do is to post and say to people what is right or not right. I can speak about this with the Admins and moderators and see if they can find a good solution for this problem.

Must of the people that do that are unaware of what they can cause. Only a well thought new rule can minimize that. Other thing I will try to do is to advice users to mark the threads as OT, or even edited my self those titles and put the OT, with a moderation note that is a facility we have when editing a user post. I have edited some when they don't put the URL addresses in the right way to be clickable.

Thanks again for you moderation efforts.

Thank you for your opinion. when this thread is finished I will send it for some Admins to read, to see if they can find ways to improve the forums somehow. I know that they will improve the moderators tools, I don't know what priorities they have and if that will take some time.

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Slowly learning to use the Olympus OM-D E-M5.
Public pictures at http://debra.zenfolio.com/.


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Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication.
Pure logic is the ruin of the spirit.
Imagination is more important than knowledge.
God is the tangential point between zero and infinity.
Aleo Photo Site

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