Wait. . . or . . . Buy?

I've got an SD14 and SD15 and several other camera's mostly Canon (i.e. old 5D, 20D). Problem I have is deciding to wait for the next generation of camera's or buy what's now available. I like my SD15 and it has  by far has given me good performance understanding  the limitations it has. The question now is do I upgrade to a SD1m or wait till the next generation that may come out is 2 to 3 years. . . ? That seems to be my biggest problem with technology. .. wait and see or buy now and be sorry for what I could have had. . . .waiting too long. . . I've had the same issues with desktop computers that I build. . . but I'm becoming more informed as I read the tech pages and manufacturer websites showing off their latest products. . . (i.e. AMD , Asus, Phoronix, and Anandtech) and evolution of computer chipsets, processors, video cards etc along with software development. . . (i.e.Linux). .

To all of you that own an SD1m is it worth while to buy one now or to wait? Those of you that also own an SD15, has the purchase of the SD1m been a good commitment? Are you satisfied with what you got or could you have waited a couple years? This will  be my last camera. . . . . and time is going buy fast. . . . I'd like to think I could wait but life passes us all by way to fast.

Richard

Hello!

Use the cameras you have now (quite a few it seems) and take pictures. When the last one of them is broken, think about getting a new one. I know, this is not a very manufacturer friendly statement, but it is all about photos, not cameras.

Regards

max

1. The Merrill generation of X3 sensor is huge step forward, i.e., worth to upgrade to.

2. But no camera is perfect.

3. Most of us upgrade not because we need to, but we want to and can afford to.

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Maple

WAIT!

I have DP2, SD15, and SD1.  Sensor on SD1 is very difficult to clean.  Sensor resolution is so high that focus becomes absolutely critical, and the existing autofocus system is in my opinion simply not up to the job.  Too bad, because I have a small fortune invested in SA-mount lenses.  They work great on my SD15 though.

I suggest you wait until Sigma adds live-view sensor-based autofocus to the SD1, or until Sigma brings out an interchangeable-lens version of the DPxM.  If you like your SD15 I say keep it and enjoy it, because the hi-res Merrill sensor is a whole different animal.

I still don't have a solution for the sensor cleaning problem I've been having so my goal at this point is to get a DP3M if I buy any Sigma at all. You can't remove the lens so you can't clean the sensor, and it always focuses using the sensor.

At this point I'm making much more use of my Fuji X-E1.  It has sensor-shake cleaning, and it uses the sensor to autofocus, AND I can swap lenses.  It might be too much to hope for but I hope that Sigma does the sensor-shake sensor cleaning in its next camera too.

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Tom Schum

Richard, here's another path to consider. IF you can use (or wish for) the additional resolution of the Merrill sensor, why not a DP2Merrill, DP1Merrill or DP3Merrill, whichever is your mm preference. One of these would make a fine complement to your other cameras IMHO. And they cost considerably less than the SD1Merrill.

Again, my preferences, IF I had a SD15, I wouldn't probably buy the SD1Merrill. I have a SD14, and various DP cameras (DP1, DP2, DP2Merrill) plus Canon 5DII. And I'm considering adding the DP3Merrill mainly for close-up/macro-type nature shots. Or lately I've been thinking about a SD15! Probably not a SD1Merrill. I'd like something for all my lenses other than my SD14 (and older SD10/9 cameras) But for $600 used, I'm actually thinking about a SD15 now! In the US, the SD1Merrill is goinv for $1600 or so used/refurb (if you can find one at that price) or over $2000 new now. So I'd say, use the SD15 as your Sigma DSLR and add a DPxMerrill for the Merrill resolution. The DPxMerrills new are around US$1000, although the DP3Merrill US$price hasn't been announced, I would be surprised if it were significantlyl more than the other two DPxMerrills.

Best regards, Sandy
http://www.pbase.com/sandyfleischman (archival)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sandyfleischmann (current)

If you need and want today, buy now. If not wait. But you have to make the choice and it's up to you and your needs.

--
Raist3d/Ricardo (Photographer, software dev.)- I photograph black cats in coal mines at night...
“The further a society drifts from truth the more it will hate those who speak it.” - George Orwell

Richard,

If you can afford buy the SD1M.  Picture quality and resolution wise it is first class. Writing to the card is little slow if you are in a hurry but for landscape and the like that is not a problem. I have the SD14 used for IR only now and the SD15 used for happy snapping and the SD1M for really serious stuff.

S

Tom,

I clean sensors al lthe time and the sensors with the sensor shake on them get every bit as dirty as the ones without it.

Sensor cleaning of the Sigmas is no different to any other camera make save for the fact that the "dust filter" has to be removed and replaced.

You go on about autofocus all the time. Focus is critical with every make and type of camera and in my long experience the Sigmas and partivularly the SD1M are as good as any of them.

S

I also have the SD14 and SD15. Not using my SD15 currently for three reasons. 1) It is all off when it comes to focus and I need to get it sent in for a fix. 2) I got the DP2M and DP1M and they are so easy to bring. 3) Using my SD14 with M42 lenses (the SD15 seems off on manual too)

If I where you and the DP cameras are not something you consider, I'd start by getting the new Sigma lenses. If you are going to get a SD1M or SDxM (next gen as you say) you need good quality lenses.

--
The brief pain of taking photos is not important, the joy of viewing excellent photos is everlasting.

On autofocus:  Especially with the latest update, the autofocus on the SD1 is as good as they can make it, which is, I agree, as good as any.  The micro-adjust is also good.  However, micro-adjust will only put a lens spot-on at one focal length, at one distance.  This is why it is necessary for Sigma to make sensor-based live-view autofocus work not only on the DPxM series (where it always is used) but also on the DSLRs.  This eliminates the need for micro-adjust and simply puts the lens in a sensor based feedback loop until perfect focus is obtained regardless of focal length (maybe not aperture but nothing is perfect).

On manual focus:  As with most DSLRs these days the focus screen is minimally useful for manual focusing.  I find I have to focus-bracket to get a clear shot, and I only find out which one is perfectly focused later, after I have done initial post processing on every image so I can compare them.  I wish Sigma would make available a fully functional manual focus screen as an option.  Aftermarket suppliers such as Haoda are not a good way to do this, even though his customers are satisfied.  I think it is Sigma's chance to support the user and they ought to on their flagship camera.  No matter if only a hundred users buy one in a given year.  It makes a professional reputation for Sigma to offer this option.  Reputation sells cameras too.

On sensor cleaning: You are probably very good at it.  I guess I am just not good at it.  I might be trying too hard.  I have a method for checking the sensor for cleanliness and it might be too sensitive to any and all contaminants.

I set my 50mm F2.8 EX DG Macro to the smallest aperture (F45?) then shoot an expodisc at the sky, or else just sky, manual focus, low ISO.  In SPP I set highlights to +2 and shadows to -2 and contrast to +2, then save to JPG.  Then I open the JPG in Photoshop Elements.  It is a gray formless thing until I hit Auto Smart Fix.  After that the smear of even the slightest cleaning fluid residue is very clear, as well as any specks of dust.  Mostly the dust specs can move around from shot to shot but there are always a few stubborn ones.  Also if I swab the sensor again the pattern of the cleaning fluid residue changes.  Additionally there must be some problem on the underside of the sensor cover glass in my SD1 because there is a smear pattern there and no amount of cleaning changes it (it should not change of course because it shoud be sealed to the sensor package in order to properly protect the sensor from the environment).

What all this tells me is that (1) I am not getting all the dust off and (2) whatever cleaning fluid I use, water based or non-water, it all leaves some sort of residual smear pattern which varies with each attempt.  The smear went away once but there was still dust on the cover glass.  Then I tried again to sweep away the dust and the smear came back.

Now, maybe this method of checking is too sensitive, but the sensor itself is delivering the image, and the luminance and color resolution of the sensor is compromised by the remnant dust and film from the cleaning operation.  Try this sort of test on any of your cameras and you will see what I mean.

The sensor is highly reflective and I guess other camera sensors are not so much reflective because of the color filter array and microlenses over the surface of the chip.  My Canon 30D sensor and my Fuji X-E1 sensor are this way, much easier to work with than the Foveon sensors.  I have a sensor viewer loupe with built in lighting, but the reflections are so strong with the SD1 sensor that I almost can't see any of the dust.  Any cleaning fluid residue is also virtually invisible but not quite.  So, I seem to have to resort to using a flashlight at a funny angle instead of the loupe built-in lighting, and this isn't optimum but it does work better.

The sensor cover glass in the SD1 is very thin, meaning dust and contaminants are very close to the sensor.  I would like to see Sigma put the IR filter on top of the sensor just because the added thickness of it would keep dust farther away from the sensor and less likely to be visible in images. I suspect this is being done in the DPxM series, making sensor cleanliness somewhat less of a problem.

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Tom Schum

My advice is this - if you can wait, you might want to wait six months or so and see if they refresh the SD-1M in some way.  Live View and a larger buffer are two very real possibilities since it seemed like the SD-1M could almost support that as it is.  If you can wait until Photokina (usually September) it seems like there would be an announcement either before then or at the show.

It doesn't seem like Sigma would take two years or more to enhance the DSLR.

In the meantime, getting one of the Merrill cameras as a starter might be a good way to ease yourself into the Merrill system.

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---> Kendall
http://www.flickr.com/photos/kigiphoto/
http://www.pbase.com/kgelner
http://www.pbase.com/sigmadslr/user_home

Or, they can also do what they did - which is to make the newer lenses configurable via a USB cradle so you can set several micro-focus adjustments to a lens, not just one.

Live-View based autofocus would be slower for AF (though nicer for manual focusing).

I have trouble cleaning sensors really well also, one of the reasons I really like the Merrills.  However I do think the dust shield has some very real advantages over other systems in terms of keeping the SD-1 cleaner, longer... as you note there are some things that just brushing will not get off a sensor - what makes you think any of the shaking mechanisms will remove them either?  At least there are fewer present with the SD-1.  I can honestly say that I can and have changed lenses in a sandstorm without overly worrying about dust getting into the chamber.

This would remove a very real advantage of the SD-1, to be able to shoot IR - and how cruel to take that away just as we are talking over the possibility of live view!

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---> Kendall
http://www.flickr.com/photos/kigiphoto/
http://www.pbase.com/kgelner
http://www.pbase.com/sigmadslr/user_home

I thank everyone for their advice. . . I'll wait and see what the next year brings around the corner. . . if anything prices may also fall by then somewhat if a newer model with improvements comes out. As some people have said earlier sometimes our wants exceed our needs when it comes to our 'toy's' but that's what brings me my pleasure. Hobbies. . .  photography, astronomy, motorcycling, computers and opensource software . .. give me the most satisfying stimulation money can buy. . .

Richard

I own a DP2s and now i will try to jumpt to SD15 and maybe in few years to DP wit interchangeable lenses

I do not know why but i do prefer the DP2 Files over the DP2m despite of the great resolution ... The do look more analog.

Good points!

Dust shield/IR filter is a good idea and maybe Sigma could just use a thicker cover glass to reduce the imaging of dust.

The USB cradle is another good idea but so far they haven't made it work with my existing lenses: I have to buy new ones!  Well, I'm NOT going to buy new ones!  Live view autofocus would eliminate the problem.  Of course the Canon and Nikon versions of my SA-mount lenses work just fine on the 5DIII, D800 and other bodies, and they do live view autofocus as well as phase autofocus.  So it isn't a real problem; it's a mystery to me why Sigma doesn't want to add this feature to their DSLRs.

Shooting numerous test images while cleaning, I can see dust specks appearing and disappearing and even moving from place to place on the cover glass.  The sensor shake feature might help this.  What got me started trying to clean my SD1 sensor was an oil spot and no sensor shake feature can remove this; you just have to physically clean it off.  So I agree with you sensor shake is not a perfect solution, but I think it helps.

Trying to get back to the original poster, on the subject of wait or buy: Richard, you have seen in this thread and many others that there is a long distance between existing Sigma cameras and ideal Sigma cameras.  Sensor and focusing are just a few of the problems.  If these are bothering you maybe you should wait in hopes that things will be better in the next few months or years.

However, we all greatly enjoy the images coming from these imperfect, problem-ridden machines, and if that is your main interest, then it is probably time to buy.

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Tom Schum

Having owned the SD10, 14 and now 15, and having borrowed Rick's SD1 twice, I certainly don't want to own an SD1M (unless it was given to me, of course) because of the AF and MF problems. As someone else pointed out, to get the best out of the new chip the focus has to be perfect, and that's just very difficult to achieve with the SD1M, as the AF has to be calibrated for each combination of FL and distance and the screen is too inaccurate for manual focusing.

So I'm waiting for the next generation of SD camera to see if Sigma fixes the obvious short comings of poor AF, poor MF screen, slow write times and no Live View.

I now own the NEX 7 and it's got everything I want except a Foveon chip. If Sigma can come anywhere close to the NEX 7 in operation and features, then I'll buy it.

The SD15 IMHO is head and shoulders above the 14 in buffer, AF, and especially color fidelity

--
Barry Byrd
http://www.pbase.com/barryb
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'Liking it ain't required'
Gary Hale
1952-2008

That is just such utter nonsense.

I don't have MF adjustments set for ANY of my SD-1 lenses.  They manage to perform quite well, apart from my 50mm which is just a jumpy lens and probably needs repair.

Precise focus is no more difficult to achieve than with any other modern DSLR.

The actual USERS of the camera generally say the AF works quite well.  And in fact I would say the accuracy of the Sigma AF has generally been higher than most Canon cameras I've had a chance to use, even if the speed is not always faster.

Since none of that is true apart from Live View (and that's not true of the DP-M cameras), come on in.

It's here today and called the DP-M series.  In fact the operation of the DP-M cameras is much better than operation of the Nex-7, the menus are clearer, and there's less lag in shooting.  The Nex-7 is OK but I prefer my iPhone if I have to shoot with something lower in quality as it's far more convenient and does a better job with video.

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---> Kendall
http://www.flickr.com/photos/kigiphoto/
http://www.pbase.com/kgelner
http://www.pbase.com/sigmadslr/user_home

In another forum someone is stating even with best zeiss-wideangle lenses nex 7-corner are not sharp...nex 5R has microlenses, nex 7 not, right?and nex 6?

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www.stereopan.org

You and I are two of a growing crowd of Sigma users who are relegating their Sigma DSLRs to "second camera" status. At the moment I own a Fuji X-E1 and carry it everywhere. It is possible I might add a DP3M as a second camera, in the coming year. For now, my Sigmas sit unused (DP2, SD15, SD1, and a few really great SA-mount lenses). If I really need the image quality I still have them of course, but I haven't been using them.

Ease of use and "good enough" results have tipped the balance for me...away from Sigma.

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Tom Schum