Nikon (and Canon) they're on to you

Started Feb 8, 2013 | Discussions
Mr Fartleberry
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Nikon (and Canon) they're on to you
Feb 8, 2013

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/2013/02/07/marketplace-country-pricing.html

GP-1 US - $194.95

GP-1 Canada - $279.95

Nikon EN-EL15 US - $59.95

Nikon EN-EL15 Canada - $99.95

And every other Nikon accessory sold in the 2 countries. Shame on you.

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Sold the (old) half-frame from Thailand. Bought a 700 under my own personal stimulus plan.

ejw07
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Re: Nikon (and Canon) they're on to you
In reply to Mr Fartleberry, Feb 8, 2013

+ - 1

Agreed living in Toronto, Can have a huge impact, Expensive. Just got a think tank yesterday Street walker Pro regular price 229$$ got it for 149:00$$ I had to really ask for this..think tanks site selling them for 189:00$$

Well i just made a friend with the sales Person.. and was told if i want anything to come / ask for her..She's on my christmas shopping list ..even took her out to lunch, and discussed matters Next on shopping list  the BIG STOPPER ND FILTER

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EJ

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Klindar
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Re: Nikon (and Canon) they're on to you
In reply to Mr Fartleberry, Feb 8, 2013

Mr Fartleberry,

Yes, it is scandalous. I have seen products selling for 3 times as much in Canada which is why more and more I order from a reliable eBay seller or someone else in the US. Here are a couple of specific personal experiences:

(1) BMW sells cars for about 25% more in Canada. Their rep told me its because of our cold weather meaning the vehicles have to have a "winter driving package". Give me a break! $10,000 for a $16.95 ($50 installed) block heater? Don't N. Dakota and Minnesota have just as cold winters? Don't Americans drive their BMW's to Canada in winter for skiing and do those vehicles suddenly freeze up when they hit the border?  Lies.

(2) I purchased online and "new in the package" a Sony digital audio recorder from a US retailer at $99.95 + $15 shipping. The Sony store in Canada charges over $300. When I confronted the dealer here with the price difference he said "It's because of the exchange rate". The Canadian dollar has been at par with the US for over a year and even before that it was only 5 cents below for 2 years. I pointed this out to the store manager. He then told me Sony will not honor the warranty here on a US purchase. I replied Sony stuff never breaks anyway but if it did I could order 2 more units from the US and still break even. He told me to "Get out of the store".

These days I always play hardball when buying. When it comes to photo equipment I show my dealer the US price and inform him if he won't match I will order from an eBay retailer or make my next purchase there while on vacation (I don't care about warranty restrictions). As far as Nikon goes I can usually get a fair price this way.

I know the cost of living is higher here and expect to pay a bit more but 30%, 200%?

IMO if Canadians quit acting like mice and resisted these inflated prices something would happen. Walk away from a bad deal. Order online from the US and let the locals know that's what you are doing. Just about everything comes across the border duty-free anyway.

Best wishes,

JH

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AllOtherNamesTaken
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Not Always
In reply to Mr Fartleberry, Feb 8, 2013

Lenses and Cameras are often significantly cheaper here in Canada. The D90 and D7000, for example, were discounted more heavily here than anywhere I saw in the states. The D7000 still sells for $900 at B&H and was $725 in Canada months ago.

As for accessories, just off the top of my head, the SB-N5 speedlight is $74.99 in Canada and $136 at B&H, essentially half the cost.

I agree Canada is often more expensive for a lot of things (like cars), but certainly not all the time.

All that said, I believe Australians get it by far the worst!  And there are no return policies there, from what I hear.

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rrccad
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Re: Nikon (and Canon) they're on to you
In reply to Mr Fartleberry, Feb 8, 2013

Mr Fartleberry wrote:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/2013/02/07/marketplace-country-pricing.html

GP-1 US - $194.95

GP-1 Canada - $279.95

Nikon EN-EL15 US - $59.95

Nikon EN-EL15 Canada - $99.95

And every other Nikon accessory sold in the 2 countries. Shame on you.

I stay down in the US for around 4+ months a year, and when I come back to Toronto .. the sticker shock on absolutely everything is sickening.

I pay around twice to three times as much for things such as groceries, drug store stuff, you name it.

the first time I experienced this it took me around 2 weeks after I was back in canada to purchase groceries .. because I kept on looking at the prices going .. I'm not paying that for that .. until I realized that eating out wasn't any better

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Klindar
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Re: Nikon (and Canon) they're on to you
In reply to ejw07, Feb 8, 2013

ejw07 wrote:

+ - 1

Agreed living in Toronto, Can have a huge impact, Expensive. Just got a think tank yesterday Street walker Pro regular price 229$$ got it for 149:00$$ I had to really ask for this..think tanks site selling them for 189:00$$

Well i just made a friend with the sales Person.. and was told if i want anything to come / ask for her..She's on my christmas shopping list ..even took her out to lunch, and discussed matters Next on shopping list the BIG STOPPER ND FILTER

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EJ

You make a very good point in regard to an effective strategy. I buy tech products at the same 2 or 3 places here in Calgary and put a lot of effort into "schmoozing" sales people and managers. A lunch once in awhile doesn't hurt, a Christmas card etc. You shouldn't have to do this but it's amazing how your prices drop. I have had 35% come off the cost of a carbon fiber tripod, 40% off a scanner and 20% off an "exotic" Nikon lens (saving me $600). Obviously they must still be making an acceptable profit. Another strategy that works especially well with female managers is to go in the store poorly dressed - blown out knees on your pants work well and a shirt with one sleeve torn loose at the shoulder is the clincher. Then you tell a sob story about how you need a break on the price. Of course they know it is a joke because I can't help from laughing but they are very amused and will take 15% - 20% off right away. It can pay big dividends to be entertaining. One time I went in with an old hospital ID band around my wrist and suggested I might be going for cancer surgery in a couple of days. Got a terrific "sympathy" discount even though the sales rep was chuckling over the obvious scam.

The markup on smaller items is outlandish. One day I went for a spare EN-EL15 battery for my D800. The store wanted something like $100. I staggered at the counter and asked for oxygen, then suggested (in jest) this was usury and would call the cops. The guy (who is one of my "schmoozees") laughed and said "OK. Would you take it for $29.95?) So I did.

Another trick ... snoop around and find how the store allocates bonuses for sales. The photo store I patronize doesn't have commissions but there is a month-end reward for the employee with the best sales. Show up for a purchase a few days before that and there's a good chance there will be someone behind the counter looking to firm-up his position or overtake the current leader. This can result in a nice discount - especially if you bundle some things together so as to make it a reasonably good sale. Works best with some planning.

My wife sez my scheming and "acting up" are embarrassing and she won't shop with me but hey - I save a lot of money and have no shame.

We are a desperate people here in the Frozen North.

Best wishes,

JH

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ChrisMT
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Re: Nikon (and Canon) they're on to you
In reply to Klindar, Feb 8, 2013

Just curious: What’s an average Canadian salary, compared to a US one? And what about different welfare systems that lowers costs in Canada for quality health care, education and so forth. Can that be part of the explanation?

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Klindar
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Re: Nikon (and Canon) they're on to you
In reply to ChrisMT, Feb 8, 2013

Hi ChrisMT,

Salaries for the same type of work are significantly lower here. I have lived and worked in the US and am also familiar with wages my relatives there receive. Not sure what the official differential is but would estimate about 30% in favor of US. We pay significantly higher taxes. When I travel in the US I am always struck by how much better people with my qualifications and experience seem to live. Everything is less expensive. Even gasoline runs about 30% less, which hurts, because a lot of it is probably made from our oil :~

We have publicly (taxpayer) funded health care which soaks up a lot of tax dollars. I know from personal experience again there is better health care in the US but you have to pay out of pocket or have insurance. There are pluses and minuses associated with both systems. The government and many economists say the Canadian system of health care makes it less costly to run a business because employers are not stuck with providing coverage for employees but - higher taxes again.

High prices in Canada stem from many reasons, I suspect.

(1) Most companies regard us a "secondary market" - primary markets being US, Britain, Europe and parts of Asia. With a small population our purchases don't mean much so I suspect companies just pile on the prices to see what they can get when we grow desperate (that's a bit cynical on my part).

(2) Because of climate it really does cost more to do business here but not 30% to 300% more!

(3) We are a meek people. Americans will bargain for a better price or shop around. We tend to put up with what is offered. After awhile businesses realize they can get away with more so they do. This is a cultural factor. My dickering and bargaining are unusual and I have, in fact, been severely criticized for this by some friends. They say the lower prices I pay end up costing *them* more and that I am cheating the sellers (imagine! as if anyone is being forced).

(4) US businesses are more competitive and will try to hang onto a customer. In Canada there has been a long history of government subsidizing poorly performing industries with marketing boards, tariffs and outright subsidies. A lot of that's changing but the culture of "you don't have to compete" takes a long time to change. It is improving, however.

Just my opinions. Maybe there is a perfectly valid reason for so many of our outrageous prices but so far have not found one.

Best wishes,

JH

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ChrisMT
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Re: Nikon (and Canon) they're on to you
In reply to Klindar, Feb 8, 2013

Thanks for an informative post. Well, in many ways the Canadian situation mirrors the Swedish one, from where I’m writing. Looked up the EN-EL 15 battery: 795,00 Swedish Kronor = 124 USD…

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Inaminka
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Re: Nikon (and Canon) they're on to you
In reply to Klindar, Feb 8, 2013

Klindar wrote:

Hi ChrisMT,

Salaries for the same type of work are significantly lower here. I have lived and worked in the US and am also familiar with wages my relatives there receive. Not sure what the official differential is but would estimate about 30% in favor of US. We pay significantly higher taxes. When I travel in the US I am always struck by how much better people with my qualifications and experience seem to live. Everything is less expensive. Even gasoline runs about 30% less, which hurts, because a lot of it is probably made from our oil :~

We have publicly (taxpayer) funded health care which soaks up a lot of tax dollars. I know from personal experience again there is better health care in the US but you have to pay out of pocket or have insurance. There are pluses and minuses associated with both systems. The government and many economists say the Canadian system of health care makes it less costly to run a business because employers are not stuck with providing coverage for employees but - higher taxes again.

High prices in Canada stem from many reasons, I suspect.

(1) Most companies regard us a "secondary market" - primary markets being US, Britain, Europe and parts of Asia. With a small population our purchases don't mean much so I suspect companies just pile on the prices to see what they can get when we grow desperate (that's a bit cynical on my part).

(2) Because of climate it really does cost more to do business here but not 30% to 300% more!

(3) We are a meek people. Americans will bargain for a better price or shop around. We tend to put up with what is offered. After awhile businesses realize they can get away with more so they do. This is a cultural factor. My dickering and bargaining are unusual and I have, in fact, been severely criticized for this by some friends. They say the lower prices I pay end up costing *them* more and that I am cheating the sellers (imagine! as if anyone is being forced).

(4) US businesses are more competitive and will try to hang onto a customer. In Canada there has been a long history of government subsidizing poorly performing industries with marketing boards, tariffs and outright subsidies. A lot of that's changing but the culture of "you don't have to compete" takes a long time to change. It is improving, however.

Just my opinions. Maybe there is a perfectly valid reason for so many of our outrageous prices but so far have not found one.

Best wishes,

JH

With regard to the high prices for product and fuel the Same thing applies to here in MEXICO. Even for products made in MX but not so much. I dont understand. Mexicans are big on buying stuff. i know many people who way back when there was no violence on the borders and fuel was cheaper would drive 750 miles every year to go shopping. as a matter fact i think the largest shopping mall in the USA is close to the border. You would think the MX gove would want to encourage consumption so as to collect taxes.

i am at a loss but its a fact.

J

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imax2k2
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Re: Not Always
In reply to AllOtherNamesTaken, Feb 8, 2013

If you think thats bad, I know of India, there are no return policies, once your out of the store, even if something is broken, they'll ask you to goto the company for warranty. Electronics and games never go on discounts, even if they are years old. Being able to return stuff is really aluxury, and I believe in the near future we might loose it altogether.

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aldel
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Re: Nikon (and Canon) they're on to you
In reply to Mr Fartleberry, Feb 8, 2013

You think that is bad? In the UK the same battery is $110.54 US

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Michael Kaplan
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Re: Nikon (and Canon) they're on to you
In reply to Mr Fartleberry, Feb 8, 2013

I know what was said years ago was a lot had to do with the purchased volume.

To most worldwide companies, the head office will sell the products to each countries distributor. The USA has a way higher volume than Canada does so in general you will see higher prices here for those items. This is supposedly the case for Nikon for example which is why a Nikon USA warranty is not valid here. It is NOT valid in the case of Canon because Canon USA owns Canon Canada so they have a shared volume. At that point there is possibly more costs (possibly... shipping duties etc) but also companies will price stuff differently depending on the market and what they can suck us for. Now I say supposedly because it used to be but on cameras and lenses it is not now... (see below).

I remember years ago as an example, my Canon 70-200 f/2.8L IS was $2999.00 retail here and selling for $1999.00 or below in the USA. I bought it from a well known seller from China for only $1586 (talk about price gouging) and of course back then there was also an much higher exchange rate which also accounted for higher pricing in Canada. Years later the retail had dropped in Canada to $1999.00 so somewhere there was some pricing fixed to a more equal footing. Now, as an example the Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS II USM is 2299 at B&H and $2099.00 at Vistek and can be had for less from other reputable places so Canon doesn't always have that price gouging anymore. At least, not on their expensive items. Now for accessories, prices are higher here and shouldn't be at lease not by much. I used to buy my cameras and lenses mostly from the USA many years ago but now all my cameras and lenses are bought locally. I prefer doing that anyway. I guess I should also bring up Nikon. They are not owned by Nikon USA which was nice with Canon's situation because Canon honored invoices from authorized USA stores for Canadian warranty claims... nice. I just bought the Nikkor 70-200 f/4G ED VR locally. Got a great deal whereas B&H has it for $1386 and Vistek $1299 and again can be had cheaper. Again right now Canadians are paying less for the lens then in the USA but again accessory pricing stinks.

Also take a look at this... Fair??
http://www.photoprice.ca/article/photoprice-silenced-by-canon
I think not... but that was March 2012

The companies do what is best for the company, not what is best for the consumer.
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dpreviewprov
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Nikon D600 + 24-85mm VR lens is AUD$2888.85 in Australia
In reply to Mr Fartleberry, Feb 8, 2013

Nikon D600 + 24-85mm VR lens is AUD$2888.85 in Australia  (official retailer, not grey importer price).

How much in Canada?

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onlyfairways
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Re: Nikon D600 + 24-85mm VR lens is AUD$2888.85 in Australia
In reply to dpreviewprov, Feb 8, 2013

At my favourite retailer in the Toronto area the Nikon D600 / 24.3 MP FX digital SLR camera w/ AF-S 24-85mm VR II lens

$2,499.99 CA
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Kaj E
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Re: Food for thought
In reply to Mr Fartleberry, Feb 9, 2013

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_Canadian_and_American_economies

Perhaps instead of complaining about Nikon and Canon, complain about your own leaders and ultimately yourself in a democratic society.

It's all about choice.

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Kaj
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wireless
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Re: Nikon (and Canon) they're on to you
In reply to Mr Fartleberry, Feb 9, 2013

When you all buy across the border isn't there a huge import tax?  I once sold a Minolota SLR (film) to a guy in Canada.  He was supposed to pay the import tax and then balked when it was about $200.  He just didn't pay it and I got stuck with it.  It basically negated any reason to have sold the camera to someone in Canada.  After that I never sold outside the US again.

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Ando72
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Re: Nikon (and Canon) they're on to you
In reply to Mr Fartleberry, Feb 9, 2013

Australia is worse.  What makes that even more infuriating is that the Aussie dollar has been stronger than both the US and Canadian for some time now.

In my experience it's got very little to do with market size, duties/taxes or freight costs.  Ask yourself why the same vehicles made in that nice Ford plant in Mississauga get put on a truck and driven 100 miles across the border, then sold for 20% less than in the country they were made.

It's called charging what the market will bear.

Australia actually has a pretty good consumer and competition watchdog, and I believe this is one practice they are monitoring. They are already onto software vendors who sell online versions of their products at different prices, with no clear reason.  There are a number of major vendors who have been given a formal "please explain" about that one.

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fad
fad
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Enlightened people naturally hate market capitalism
In reply to Mr Fartleberry, Feb 9, 2013

until they have to go without its benefits.

Canadian culture is just lest capitalistic and competitive, I gather.

That's actually nice for retailers, and lousy for customers.

There's a reason that both B&H and Adorama are in NYC.   They have watched many competitors, some much older and larger, go under by not serving their customers well.

If there is a lower price for amusing the sales staff and taking them out to lunch, that means the market is failing.   Your price depends on who you are and who you know, a little bit closer to the old USSR.

To get the best price here in NYC, I just have to show up, or pick up the phone, or go online.

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Ando72
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Re: Enlightened people naturally hate market capitalism
In reply to fad, Feb 9, 2013

fad wrote:

until they have to go without its benefits.

Canadian culture is just lest capitalistic and competitive, I gather.

That's actually nice for retailers, and lousy for customers.

There's a reason that both B&H and Adorama are in NYC. They have watched many competitors, some much older and larger, go under by not serving their customers well.

If there is a lower price for amusing the sales staff and taking them out to lunch, that means the market is failing. Your price depends on who you are and who you know, a little bit closer to the old USSR.

To get the best price here in NYC, I just have to show up, or pick up the phone, or go online.

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Frank
http://sidewalkshadows.com (street photos)

I have to laugh when Americans think that anything other than pure capitalism is the thin end of the wedge on the slide towards communism

So you seriously think that a guy building a relationship with a salesperson to get better service/price is related to Soviet communism?  Really?

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