Case of Sigma, DP3 Merrill, SPP 5.5

Started Feb 8, 2013 | Discussions
Guido FORRIER
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Re: Case of Sigma, DP3 Merrill, SPP 5.5
In reply to Daisaku Watanabe, Feb 10, 2013

skin tones  : nr 1

green/magenta blotches : 3&15

magenta middel/green corners : 14

you are lucky you do  not see it and when you do not see it there is no problem

guido

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Guido FORRIER
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Re: You don't have a clue
In reply to mroy, Feb 10, 2013

i am a retired photographer and need no SD1 . i have other camera's that give me good results in a lot of situations .

this samples may come from in camera jpg's and they can be down sampled etc.... but when you are not new to foveon you can see from the beginning to now the same "problems" over and over again .

+ the mediocre skills from sigma to produce a "decent" camera .

dust on sensor in a camera  you have no access to clean it !

i like the "foveon theory " but i have to wait until something better comes on the market than the actual sigma's .

i also am not a fan of the sharpness : to aggresive , not suitable for portrait . razor sharp :yes but "fine" detail ?

i have to stick with "bayer" for a longer time .

guido

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mdavidp
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Re: You don't have a clue
In reply to Guido FORRIER, Feb 10, 2013

You have to love the IQ.

http://www.sigma-dp.com/DP3Merrill/samplephoto/SDIM3467.jpg

I'm in. Mike P

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nandadevieast
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Re: Case of Sigma, DP3 Merrill, SPP 5.5
In reply to michaeli, Feb 10, 2013

michaeli wrote:

http://photo.yodobashi.com/sigma/imp/dp3m.html

really cool pictures

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Daisaku Watanabe
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Re: Case of Sigma, DP3 Merrill, SPP 5.5
In reply to Guido FORRIER, Feb 10, 2013

Guido,

thanks for your kindness.

Guido FORRIER wrote:

(snip)

green/magenta blotches : 3&15

OK in 3 and 15, I can see green/magenta blotches in people's hair, yes.

magenta middel/green corners : 14

Umm, slightly magenta middle maybe yes,

but I failed to figure out green corners in 14.

Anyways it is very helpful info, thanks. 

Oh, and can I ask your opinion about photo no.14, if I may?

At the center of the picture, two guys are riding on a motor bike.

I can see some sort of stripe (or checkered) pattern on the shirt of rear side man, bit feel strange.

Do you think it is moire? or it is the such shirt from the first point.

Thanks.

DW

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Guido FORRIER
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Re: Case of Sigma, DP3 Merrill, SPP 5.5
In reply to Daisaku Watanabe, Feb 10, 2013

good afternoon , (here in Brugge )

it looks like aliasing but that can be due to the fact that you look very close on a down sampled image . see also the jaggies in the motorbike rods .

i was in the beginning pleased with the image quality of my sd14 (not the quality of the camera) until i very quick saw in sandy beaches , concrete floors and walls et ... the magenta spot + green corners . there was never an valuable explication from sigma .

even in well sunny lighted scenes : greens in the darker parts of skin tones , sometime blotches .

there was also , even at 100 and 200 iso , some green/magenta noise in shadows (again in very good sunlight ) .

once you know how these problems look , you find them very easy .

there was in this forum a contest who is sigma and who is canon (or was it nikon ) and i had no problems to find a magenta hallo + green corners .

my problem is now that every time i see a sigma/foveon photo i tend to look for these "artifacts" .

that is not a nice behavior , i know .

meanwhile i am very satisfied with bayer camera's : one for video and "street, vacation" photography and one for the better quality . i know that this camara can not the have  more real resolution when pixel  peeping than the DP2M , in practice up to A2 enlargement i see no difference .

guido

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Guido FORRIER
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Re: You don't have a clue
In reply to mdavidp, Feb 10, 2013

i also love the IQ of this photo . i was there years ago in Prague . and there will be a lot more sigma photo's with nice IQ .

guido

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Joseph S Wisniewski
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Trolling both sides?
In reply to Guido FORRIER, Feb 10, 2013

Guido FORRIER wrote:

not the best photographer : a boat is sinking , statue not in focus as the focus is on the back scene , etc ...

no full size photo's but i see :

- yellow/green skin tones

- 2 x green/magenta blotches in hair

- can i see a magenta spot + green corners in the tarmac ? i did not expect that with a small tele lens .

i was looking forward to come back to sigma but NO : IQ need to be more than resolution at low iso .

sorry ,

No, you are not sorry, in the slightest. You are not expressing your own opinions here, Guido: you are making statements calculated to cause as much offense as possible. Your anti-Foveon trolling today is no different than your  previous anti-Bayer trolling.

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/post/50690153

Except that you seem to have earned that something as extreme as your "Bayer died and Bayer sensors are dying (at least i hope so )" comment puts you in danger of getting your sorry troll self banned from dpReview entirely.

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richard stone
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Re: 'Broken Reord'
In reply to Daisaku Watanabe, Feb 10, 2013

Daisaku Watanabe wrote:

mroy wrote:

Daisaku Watanabe wrote:

Kendall Helmstetter Gelner wrote:

I'm not very fan of Raist3d but what you are doing is just personal attack.

Stop it please.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=broken%20record

'One who continually repeats the same statement with little variation, if any.'

There is no personal attack at all - and the picture is very funny actually.

I don' think you need a reply, but this is not funny at all,

and you should not make a thing funny-looking

because you disagree with someone's opinion.

It does not go anywhere. So stop it.

Best

DW

No, I think you are just wrong. There is no need to stop it, and you are wrong to demand it in such an abrupt and rude way. Nothing gives you that right.

It may be a "personal" remark, but it is not about him personally, or an attack on who he is, or his character. It is a comment directly regarding what Raist has repeatedly written about the various cameras and about Kendall, opinions from Raist which are hyper-sensitive to various claimed issues with the various DP/M Cameras. Raist claims to see "color" issues where most people do not, which is one thing, but he offers them and insists upon them in a way that I have found quite abrasive. Regardless of the various positive reviews the DP2M received, Raist was determined to repeat, again and again, what he perceived as the flaws of the camera, and he was, as I saw it, quite willing to insult anyone who disagreed with him.

But Kendal did not call him names or insult him or criticize him. He merely suggested, in a graphic way, that it was just more of the same. I think Kendall exercised considerable restraint under the circumstances.

Would it have been better if Kendall had said, "Raist, you always say that and see issues which are essentially invisible and which (if they were visible) are curable?" Or is a picture of a broken record worth a thousand words?

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Guido FORRIER
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Re: Trolling both sides?
In reply to Joseph S Wisniewski, Feb 10, 2013

well it was a little rude of me to write : Bayer died and Bayer is death . it was not mentioned so and it was a slip of the tongue .

troll ? i see the use of this word very often in the dpr forums . i , personally , d'ont like the word and the use of this word . in dutch we say : alles wat je zegt ben je zelf : everything you say is yourself .

when i say on the sony forum : it is hard to beat the dp2m in resolution is this trolling , because i say that in a sony forum ? i do not think so : i tried myself , with the aid of an other member and using test chards , to obtain  the same resolution with my sony A900 and the dp2m raw files i developed myself : it was hard to beat the dp2M . trolling ?

it is possible (i say possible) that sony , or an other company , wil come with a 3 layer sensor but there are not much sony forum members that are interested . (until sony comes with a 3 layer and than it will be spectacular )

same here in sigma forum :

i see green.magenta blotches in hair . i see what i see and i report that . is this trolling ?

if in both forums i am a troll : what i am doing here ? waisting my time ? or can i add some remarks that can be useful for other members ?

i am a very rational and not emotional man : a cow is a cow and not a dog ! as simple as that .

blotches are blotches .

when you read my texts you will see that i have not a  meaning but that can show the strong and the weak points of a camera system and i can add proofs , because i do a lot of testing myself .

guido

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Raist3d
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Re: 'Broken Reord'
In reply to richard stone, Feb 10, 2013

richard stone wrote:

Daisaku Watanabe wrote:

mroy wrote:

Daisaku Watanabe wrote:

Kendall Helmstetter Gelner wrote:

I'm not very fan of Raist3d but what you are doing is just personal attack.

Stop it please.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=broken%20record

'One who continually repeats the same statement with little variation, if any.'

There is no personal attack at all - and the picture is very funny actually.

I don' think you need a reply, but this is not funny at all,

and you should not make a thing funny-looking

because you disagree with someone's opinion.

It does not go anywhere. So stop it.

Best

DW

No, I think you are just wrong. There is no need to stop it, and you are wrong to demand it in such an abrupt and rude way. Nothing gives you that right.

It may be a "personal" remark, but it is not about him personally, or an attack on who he is, or his character. It is a comment directly regarding what Raist has repeatedly written about the various cameras and about Kendall, opinions from Raist which are hyper-sensitive to various claimed issues with the various DP/M Cameras. Raist claims to see "color" issues where most people do not,

At this point this is at least somewhat false. There's been several people/owners that have made note of it.

which is one thing, but he offers them and insists upon them in a way that I have found quite abrasive.

You will note that I only reply "abrasive" as you say probably when I am shrugging off the apparent mandate that such thing does not exist combined with a personal attack to what I posted.

Regardless of the various positive reviews the DP2M received, Raist was determined to repeat, again and again, what he perceived as the flaws of the camera, and he was, as I saw it, quite willing to insult anyone who disagreed with him.

And I have also repeated and said the good too.

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/post/50774107

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/post/50764201

But somehow you miss that. I even made a whole thread of shots that I think show the DP2M potential the way I would expect it to be.

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/post/42251774

Moreover, I even pointed some shots out on the official DP3M samples that I think are great, but somehow, you miss that (see above).

But Kendal did not call him names or insult him or criticize him. He merely suggested, in a graphic way, that it was just more of the same. I think Kendall exercised considerable restraint under the circumstances.

You are so ridiculous. First he didn't suggest- he said. Let's be clear here. Second, "considerable restraint under... " Don't make me laugh. I don't need Kendall's nor your permission to post here which is what it sounds like. Moreover, I was giving my opinion on what I saw the same way you or particularly Kendall does, but somehow you guys saying "the same thing" does not qualify as a broken record because, you know, it's nothing but praise, so it's all good in the church.

Yay, another hypocrite. Oh and to be clear, yes, I am referring to you. I don't "hide."

Would it have been better if Kendall had said, "Raist, you always say that and see issues which are essentially invisible and which (if they were visible) are curable?" Or is a picture of a broken record worth a thousand words?

He could simply agree to disagree or let it be. The good thing is that what I point out, people don't have to believe me because they can verify it! If you can't see it, you can just read the values over the regions and areas and see how they vary.

Then instead of questioning what I may be imagining, perhaps you could check your yes. After all green and magenta here, are some of the colors color blind people can't see.

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unknown member
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I don't think you deserve a reply
In reply to Daisaku Watanabe, Feb 10, 2013

Daisaku Watanabe wrote:

mroy wrote:

Daisaku Watanabe wrote:

Kendall Helmstetter Gelner wrote:

I'm not very fan of Raist3d but what you are doing is just personal attack.

Stop it please.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=broken%20record

'One who continually repeats the same statement with little variation, if any.'

There is no personal attack at all - and the picture is very funny actually.

I don' think you need a reply, but this is not funny at all,

and you should not make a thing funny-looking

because you disagree with someone's opinion.

It does not go anywhere. So stop it.

Best

DW

But this is funny,

and you can go anywhere.

So please don't stop it.

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Daisaku Watanabe
Forum MemberPosts: 60
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Re: 'Broken Reord'
In reply to richard stone, Feb 11, 2013

richard stone wrote:

Daisaku Watanabe wrote:

mroy wrote:

Daisaku Watanabe wrote:

Kendall Helmstetter Gelner wrote:

I'm not very fan of Raist3d but what you are doing is just personal attack.

Stop it please.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=broken%20record

'One who continually repeats the same statement with little variation, if any.'

There is no personal attack at all - and the picture is very funny actually.

I don' think you need a reply, but this is not funny at all,

and you should not make a thing funny-looking

because you disagree with someone's opinion.

It does not go anywhere. So stop it.

Best

DW

No, I think you are just wrong. There is no need to stop it, and you are wrong to demand it in such an abrupt and rude way. Nothing gives you that right.

It may be a "personal" remark, but it is not about him personally, or an attack on who he is, or his character. It is a comment directly regarding what Raist has repeatedly written about the various cameras and about Kendall, opinions from Raist which are hyper-sensitive to various claimed issues with the various DP/M Cameras. Raist claims to see "color" issues where most people do not, which is one thing, but he offers them and insists upon them in a way that I have found quite abrasive. Regardless of the various positive reviews the DP2M received, Raist was determined to repeat, again and again, what he perceived as the flaws of the camera, and he was, as I saw it, quite willing to insult anyone who disagreed with him.

But Kendal did not call him names or insult him or criticize him. He merely suggested, in a graphic way, that it was just more of the same. I think Kendall exercised considerable restraint under the circumstances.

Would it have been better if Kendall had said, "Raist, you always say that and see issues which are essentially invisible and which (if they were visible) are curable?" Or is a picture of a broken record worth a thousand words?

If you think that putting meaningless jpg image to the forum without a word makes you more comfortable, fine, though I disagree with it.

If you have opinion about it, and if you want to spend time on it, you can discuss with reasons, not with "funny" jpg.

If you don't see any value on someones's notes, you can skip/ignore him, without attacking someone.

Bestr regareds,

DW

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Daisaku Watanabe
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Re: Case of Sigma, DP3 Merrill, SPP 5.5
In reply to Guido FORRIER, Feb 11, 2013

Guido, thanks for your comment.

Yes, I understand certain people tend to avoid foveon because of those blotches issues, though I am not very serious  about it  personally 

Thank you very much.

Best

DW

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Lin Evans
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Re: 'Broken Reord'
In reply to Daisaku Watanabe, Feb 11, 2013

But when the same person repeatedly makes the same remarks about a significant number of images being posted from the Sigma Merrill cameras, it de-facto becomes a "broken record." This, in colloquial English means a phonograph record where the needle is rejected time and again by a "crack" so that it repeats the same portion over and again.

In my opinion it's an elegant way to say something without words. A rational person, in critique of images produced by a particular instrument, makes their opinion and position about it known and then drops further comments. One who apparently has an "agenda" continues to comment until astute observers have no need to read their comments because they "know" apriori what is about to be said. Everyone who frequents this forum knows precisely what these comments will be, so what is gained by continually repeating them? What is accomplished is controversy and arguments which have zero value to either viewpoint.

Lin

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Raist3d
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Re: 'Broken Reord'
In reply to Lin Evans, Feb 11, 2013

Lin Evans wrote:

But when the same person repeatedly makes the same remarks about a significant number of images being posted from the Sigma Merrill cameras, it de-facto becomes a "broken record." This, in colloquial English means a phonograph record where the needle is rejected time and again by a "crack" so that it repeats the same portion over and again.

In my opinion it's an elegant way to say something without words. A rational person, in critique of images produced by a particular instrument, makes their opinion and position about it known and then drops further comments. One who apparently has an "agenda" continues to comment until astute observers have no need to read their comments because they "know" apriori what is about to be said. Everyone who frequents this forum knows precisely what these comments will be, so what is gained by continually repeating them? What is accomplished is controversy and arguments which have zero value to either viewpoint.

Sounds like you and many of your friends here :-).

Of course keep ignoring the "good threads" I gave posted too. That's the real problem, if I don't toe the line some people with some rather apparent too close affiliation to Sigma,, or not the constant praise and bashing of other brands then I am a bad person.  I'll give ypu this much:  at least you guys don't discriminate against me on this Just to have an independent different opinion seems to be all that it takes.

Lin

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Daisaku Watanabe
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Re: 'Broken Reord'
In reply to Lin Evans, Feb 11, 2013

Lin Evans wrote:

(snip)

In my opinion it's an elegant way to say something without words.

(snip)

To me, that is the same with saying "it's an elegant way to attack someone without words".

No it's not elegance there even if you are putting 100x words more.

Best regards,

DW

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