Latest Fujifilm Quarterly Result Locked

Started Feb 5, 2013 | Discussions
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Latest Fujifilm Quarterly Result
Feb 5, 2013

Imaging Solutions, the division of Fujifilm that produces their cameras, reported another loss of 3 billion Yen.  Revenue down 10.6%.  Since all 3 quarters so far have lost money, it is unlikely that Fujifilm will report any profits from their Imaging Solution division for what will be the 8th straight year.

Cash holdings of the Fujifilm group fell by 6 billion Yen.

In positive news...

"...sales of such high-end models as the X series proceeded smoothly."

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LetsDoTheStapler
Forum MemberPosts: 60
Re: Latest Fujifilm Quarterly Result
In reply to rattymouse, Feb 5, 2013

rattymouse wrote:

Imaging Solutions, the division of Fujifilm that produces their cameras, reported another loss of 3 billion Yen. Revenue down 10.6%. Since all 3 quarters so far have lost money, it is unlikely that Fujifilm will report any profits from their Imaging Solution division for what will be the 8th straight year.

Cash holdings of the Fujifilm group fell by 6 billion Yen.

In positive news...

"...sales of such high-end models as the X series proceeded smoothly."

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DISCLAIMER: The text written herein is meant to provide the opinions and/or suggestions of the author. No statement herein is meant to be considered law of the land, representative of any party or group, and or a quote from any party or group. Neither is any statement in the contained text meant to be taken as scripture, doctrine, or all encompassing of an entire populous or any groups or individuals therein.

are there any japanese manufacturers showing a positive result for once??

on the other hand samsung is growing and eclipsing...

webmonkey128
Forum MemberPosts: 63Gear list
Re: Latest Fujifilm Quarterly Result
In reply to LetsDoTheStapler, Feb 5, 2013

LetsDoTheStapler wrote:

are there any japanese manufacturers showing a positive result for once??

on the other hand samsung is growing and eclipsing...

Yes they definitely would be a shining example on how to get things done; a pity for Japan that Samsung is actually a Korean company tho...

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LetsDoTheStapler
Forum MemberPosts: 60
Re: Latest Fujifilm Quarterly Result
In reply to webmonkey128, Feb 5, 2013

My point exactly!

Japan had the tech crown in the 80s but has gradually fallen from relevance compared to the named, apple, lg and some Chinese firms etc etc.

the problem is they are still rooted In very old fashioned thinking and methods and still seem to focus for too much on the local japanese market rather then anything beyond that. Why aren't japanese smart phone everywhere? Absurd product marketing, japanese market only products remember thr 645d was Japan only at first?

unknown member
(unknown member)
Re: Latest Fujifilm Quarterly Result
In reply to LetsDoTheStapler, Feb 5, 2013

LetsDoTheStapler wrote:

rattymouse wrote:

Imaging Solutions, the division of Fujifilm that produces their cameras, reported another loss of 3 billion Yen. Revenue down 10.6%. Since all 3 quarters so far have lost money, it is unlikely that Fujifilm will report any profits from their Imaging Solution division for what will be the 8th straight year.

Cash holdings of the Fujifilm group fell by 6 billion Yen.

In positive news...

"...sales of such high-end models as the X series proceeded smoothly."

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DISCLAIMER: The text written herein is meant to provide the opinions and/or suggestions of the author. No statement herein is meant to be considered law of the land, representative of any party or group, and or a quote from any party or group. Neither is any statement in the contained text meant to be taken as scripture, doctrine, or all encompassing of an entire populous or any groups or individuals therein.

are there any japanese manufacturers showing a positive result for once??

on the other hand samsung is growing and eclipsing...

No idea, they have different financial calendars.  Certainly Canon and Nikon have not lost money with their cameras 8 straight years.

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DISCLAIMER: The text written herein is meant to provide the opinions and/or suggestions of the author. No statement herein is meant to be considered law of the land, representative of any party or group, and or a quote from any party or group. Neither is any statement in the contained text meant to be taken as scripture, doctrine, or all encompassing of an entire populous or any groups or individuals therein.

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Zardoz
Senior MemberPosts: 1,249Gear list
Re: Latest Fujifilm Quarterly Result
In reply to rattymouse, Feb 6, 2013

Fudgi story bro.

BobYIL
Contributing MemberPosts: 889
Re: Latest Fujifilm Quarterly Result
In reply to rattymouse, Feb 6, 2013

Right in last September USD was about 78 JYen. Today it's hovering above 93. Euromarket is in recession. See how Nikon dropped the prices two times in the last six months.

To keep the production lines running they can not cut the quotas (otherwise it would be next to impossible to regain the markets) so they operate with loss or minute profit margins. Actually most of them are contented if they compensate for the overhead costs, especially the R&D to keep the new models oncoming; just to maintain our interest in their brand... Otherwise no chance to survive.

BTW following March there could be a new wave of price cuts..

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BobYIL

unknown member
(unknown member)
Re: Latest Fujifilm Quarterly Result
In reply to BobYIL, Feb 6, 2013

BobYIL wrote:

Right in last September USD was about 78 JYen. Today it's hovering above 93. Euromarket is in recession. See how Nikon dropped the prices two times in the last six months.

To keep the production lines running they can not cut the quotas (otherwise it would be next to impossible to regain the markets) so they operate with loss or minute profit margins. Actually most of them are contented if they compensate for the overhead costs, especially the R&D to keep the new models oncoming; just to maintain our interest in their brand... Otherwise no chance to survive.

BTW following March there could be a new wave of price cuts..

-- hide signature --

BobYIL

The yen's fall has been dramatic.   Good timing for me as I'll be in Japan next week for a 7 day holiday.

I keep wondering when Fujifilm's imaging division will report a profit.  I've looked all the way back to 2005 and have not found any year where they made money selling cameras. Bizarre.

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DISCLAIMER: The text written herein is meant to provide the opinions and/or suggestions of the author. No statement herein is meant to be considered law of the land, representative of any party or group, and or a quote from any party or group. Neither is any statement in the contained text meant to be taken as scripture, doctrine, or all encompassing of an entire populous or any groups or individuals therein.

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Chris Dodkin
Veteran MemberPosts: 6,094Gear list
Re: Latest Fujifilm Quarterly Result
In reply to rattymouse, Feb 6, 2013

rattymouse wrote:

BobYIL wrote:

Right in last September USD was about 78 JYen. Today it's hovering above 93. Euromarket is in recession. See how Nikon dropped the prices two times in the last six months.

To keep the production lines running they can not cut the quotas (otherwise it would be next to impossible to regain the markets) so they operate with loss or minute profit margins. Actually most of them are contented if they compensate for the overhead costs, especially the R&D to keep the new models oncoming; just to maintain our interest in their brand... Otherwise no chance to survive.

BTW following March there could be a new wave of price cuts..

-- hide signature --

BobYIL

The yen's fall has been dramatic. Good timing for me as I'll be in Japan next week for a 7 day holiday.

I keep wondering when Fujifilm's imaging division will report a profit. I've looked all the way back to 2005 and have not found any year where they made money selling cameras. Bizarre.

Given the ability for international manufacturers to move funds around between divisions, they may never show a profit on paper - nor see the need to ever declare one

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unknown member
(unknown member)
Re: Latest Fujifilm Quarterly Result
In reply to Chris Dodkin, Feb 6, 2013

Chris Dodkin wrote:

rattymouse wrote:

BobYIL wrote:

Right in last September USD was about 78 JYen. Today it's hovering above 93. Euromarket is in recession. See how Nikon dropped the prices two times in the last six months.

To keep the production lines running they can not cut the quotas (otherwise it would be next to impossible to regain the markets) so they operate with loss or minute profit margins. Actually most of them are contented if they compensate for the overhead costs, especially the R&D to keep the new models oncoming; just to maintain our interest in their brand... Otherwise no chance to survive.

BTW following March there could be a new wave of price cuts..

-- hide signature --

BobYIL

The yen's fall has been dramatic. Good timing for me as I'll be in Japan next week for a 7 day holiday.

I keep wondering when Fujifilm's imaging division will report a profit. I've looked all the way back to 2005 and have not found any year where they made money selling cameras. Bizarre.

Given the ability for international manufacturers to move funds around between divisions, they may never show a profit on paper - nor see the need to ever declare one

A hypothetical movement of funds is just wallpaper over the problem.  Fujifilm states firmly that Imaging solutions does not make money. Quite the opposite, it loses money.  Full stop.  Yes, Fujifilm's divisions that actually show a profit might be used to cover the perpetually underperforming Imaging division, but that is just a band aid.  The reality is still there, will always be there, and since Fujifilm is a public company, we will always know about it.

Why cannot Fujifilm make a profit while Nikon (just released numbers show) can make money?

The X cameras are a dramatic improvement over the last chapter in Fujifilm's history.  But even that didnt take them into profitability.  What will it take if the X's cant do it?

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DISCLAIMER: The text written herein is meant to provide the opinions and/or suggestions of the author. No statement herein is meant to be considered law of the land, representative of any party or group, and or a quote from any party or group. Neither is any statement in the contained text meant to be taken as scripture, doctrine, or all encompassing of an entire populous or any groups or individuals therein.

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TThorne
Senior MemberPosts: 2,641Gear list
Re: Latest Fujifilm Quarterly Result
In reply to rattymouse, Feb 7, 2013

rattymouse wrote:

The X cameras are a dramatic improvement over the last chapter in Fujifilm's history. But even that didnt take them into profitability. What will it take if the X's cant do it?

I think the biggest revenue stream in camera sales comes from system buyers. While I love the X100 and am sure I will love my X100S, They are one and out sales every few years. Nikon and Canon provide a system, complete from zooms, to primes, to flash systems, with all of the leading camera technology at all price points, sizes, and focal lengths.

People are constantly buying lenses, changing their minds, buying more lenses... Same with flashes.

At this time, Fuji does not come close to having that capability. They have "plans", which seem to be spotty at best as they shift around and provide little confidence, but "plans" nonetheless.

If Fuji wants to turn a profit at some point, they better start paying better attention to system users who they will get into for all manner of equipment between regular body updates every few years. I am not going to go through the exhaustive list of firmware able updates they could give us, or the lens delays. Those are already well noted.

Secondly, and I think this applies to a lot of mirrorless systems, AF tracking for sports/kids... A lot of people don't maintain multiple systems for different types of shooting, this, they buy a system that is capable all around. When AF gets fast enough, and AF tracking is actually useable, along with everything else that would make it a complete system vs the mix and match that it currently is, then I think they stand to see a profit. Not a snowball's chance in hell until then.

You'd have thought this would have become abundantly clear when they developed the S series and watched Nikon run away with all those profits.

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Bernie Ess
Veteran MemberPosts: 6,926Gear list
Re: Latest Fujifilm Quarterly Result
In reply to TThorne, Feb 7, 2013
You'd have thought this would have become abundantly clear when they developed the S series and watched Nikon run away with all those profits.

This was quite different. Because with the S system all there was was one single body, and an expensive one, bought form Nikon and modified then, including a (still expensive:) Super CCD sensor.. Now they sell the x100/ 100s with already a lens included. This camera has been a big seller for Fuji.

Their X-pro1/ E1 is a real system, people tend to buy several lenses with the body, grip, flashes. they will release 10+ lenses after 2 years (from the release of the x-Pro-1).

It is their big compact camera line that isn't finally going anywhere because competition is high, margins low, and the compact market is slowly dying.

Fuji probably knows all that, and they will react accordingly. Of all the mirrorless systems (m4/3 not included), the Fuji system is the most interesting.

So?

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Chris Dodkin
Veteran MemberPosts: 6,094Gear list
Re: Latest Fujifilm Quarterly Result
In reply to rattymouse, Feb 7, 2013

rattymouse wrote:

Chris Dodkin wrote:

rattymouse wrote:

BobYIL wrote:

Right in last September USD was about 78 JYen. Today it's hovering above 93. Euromarket is in recession. See how Nikon dropped the prices two times in the last six months.

To keep the production lines running they can not cut the quotas (otherwise it would be next to impossible to regain the markets) so they operate with loss or minute profit margins. Actually most of them are contented if they compensate for the overhead costs, especially the R&D to keep the new models oncoming; just to maintain our interest in their brand... Otherwise no chance to survive.

BTW following March there could be a new wave of price cuts..

-- hide signature --

BobYIL

The yen's fall has been dramatic. Good timing for me as I'll be in Japan next week for a 7 day holiday.

I keep wondering when Fujifilm's imaging division will report a profit. I've looked all the way back to 2005 and have not found any year where they made money selling cameras. Bizarre.

Given the ability for international manufacturers to move funds around between divisions, they may never show a profit on paper - nor see the need to ever declare one

A hypothetical movement of funds is just wallpaper over the problem. Fujifilm states firmly that Imaging solutions does not make money. Quite the opposite, it loses money. Full stop. Yes, Fujifilm's divisions that actually show a profit might be used to cover the perpetually underperforming Imaging division, but that is just a band aid. The reality is still there, will always be there, and since Fujifilm is a public company, we will always know about it.

Why cannot Fujifilm make a profit while Nikon (just released numbers show) can make money?

The X cameras are a dramatic improvement over the last chapter in Fujifilm's history. But even that didnt take them into profitability. What will it take if the X's cant do it?

My description is as valid as your hypothetical positions on the topic Ratty.

Fuji can be highly profitable in one division and not in another, and choose where they show that profit.

None of that is transparent to anyone outside of the company, or more specifically the financial section of that company

Your assumption that the X-Trans is not profitable is just that - your assumption

You have no more specific data than anyone else

But as usual, you choose to draw a negative conclusion against the X-Trans

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unknown member
(unknown member)
Re: Latest Fujifilm Quarterly Result
In reply to Chris Dodkin, Feb 7, 2013

Chris Dodkin wrote:

rattymouse wrote:

Chris Dodkin wrote:

rattymouse wrote:

BobYIL wrote:

Right in last September USD was about 78 JYen. Today it's hovering above 93. Euromarket is in recession. See how Nikon dropped the prices two times in the last six months.

To keep the production lines running they can not cut the quotas (otherwise it would be next to impossible to regain the markets) so they operate with loss or minute profit margins. Actually most of them are contented if they compensate for the overhead costs, especially the R&D to keep the new models oncoming; just to maintain our interest in their brand... Otherwise no chance to survive.

BTW following March there could be a new wave of price cuts..

-- hide signature --

BobYIL

The yen's fall has been dramatic. Good timing for me as I'll be in Japan next week for a 7 day holiday.

I keep wondering when Fujifilm's imaging division will report a profit. I've looked all the way back to 2005 and have not found any year where they made money selling cameras. Bizarre.

Given the ability for international manufacturers to move funds around between divisions, they may never show a profit on paper - nor see the need to ever declare one

A hypothetical movement of funds is just wallpaper over the problem. Fujifilm states firmly that Imaging solutions does not make money. Quite the opposite, it loses money. Full stop. Yes, Fujifilm's divisions that actually show a profit might be used to cover the perpetually underperforming Imaging division, but that is just a band aid. The reality is still there, will always be there, and since Fujifilm is a public company, we will always know about it.

Why cannot Fujifilm make a profit while Nikon (just released numbers show) can make money?

The X cameras are a dramatic improvement over the last chapter in Fujifilm's history. But even that didnt take them into profitability. What will it take if the X's cant do it?

My description is as valid as your hypothetical positions on the topic Ratty.

Nonsense.  Anyone with basic accounting understanding knows that you are completely illiterate on this topic.

Fuji can be highly profitable in one division and not in another, and choose where they show that profit.

No they cannot.  There are laws that specifically state how companies must report their earnings. GAP anyone?  Public companies such as Fujifilm have investors that MUST know what is going on inside the company that they own.  Fujifilm must operate with transparency.

You suggest that that are operating like Enron.  Your opinion is amusing to say the least.

None of that is transparent to anyone outside of the company, or more specifically the financial section of that company

I dont think you understand why even such financial reports exist.

Your assumption that the X-Trans is not profitable is just that - your assumption

No, it is Fujifilm's  statement of FACT.

You have no more specific data than anyone else

Even when the facts stare you in the face, you deny, deny, deny.

But as usual, you choose to draw a negative conclusion against the X-Trans

Nonsense.  I relay Fujifilm's own message.  Were Fujifilm a private company I would have nothing to say on this issue since the facts would remain private.  But since Fujifilm is public, their operating condition is public and every 3 months, they report what has transpired.  The NUMBERS are there for you or anyone to see.   Revenue EARNED for the quarter by the Imaging Solutions group vs cost of business.   The final number is NEGATIVE.  That is a fact.  You can whinge.  You can cry.  You can flail around your arms waving as hard as you want to distract from this point but it is all for naught.   In fact, you KNOW what I am reporting here is absolutely bullet proof true.  You just HAVE to deny it anyway.

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shigzeo
Senior MemberPosts: 1,364Gear list
Re: Latest Fujifilm Quarterly Result
In reply to rattymouse, Feb 7, 2013

rattymouse wrote:

BobYIL wrote:

Right in last September USD was about 78 JYen. Today it's hovering above 93. Euromarket is in recession. See how Nikon dropped the prices two times in the last six months.

To keep the production lines running they can not cut the quotas (otherwise it would be next to impossible to regain the markets) so they operate with loss or minute profit margins. Actually most of them are contented if they compensate for the overhead costs, especially the R&D to keep the new models oncoming; just to maintain our interest in their brand... Otherwise no chance to survive.

BTW following March there could be a new wave of price cuts..

-- hide signature --

BobYIL

The yen's fall has been dramatic. Good timing for me as I'll be in Japan next week for a 7 day holiday.

I keep wondering when Fujifilm's imaging division will report a profit. I've looked all the way back to 2005 and have not found any year where they made money selling cameras. Bizarre.

-- hide signature --

DISCLAIMER: The text written herein is meant to provide the opinions and/or suggestions of the author. No statement herein is meant to be considered law of the land, representative of any party or group, and or a quote from any party or group. Neither is any statement in the contained text meant to be taken as scripture, doctrine, or all encompassing of an entire populous or any groups or individuals therein.

If you come anywhere near Tokyo, give me a ring. I'd love to meet up and if you need, show you around a bit. My employment allows for certain field trips.

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jeff mungar
Regular MemberPosts: 265
Re: Latest Fujifilm Quarterly Result
In reply to rattymouse, Feb 7, 2013

ratty; i am more of a silent observer/reader of this forum. i do not contribuite much but do enjoy reading through the fuji forum. i must say that i am coming to the conclusioon that you are acting like a troll. i have read many, many of your posts on various threads and they are almost always casting a negative spin on whatever the topic happens to be. i do not mean to be insulting in any way, i do not know you. but i am calling it as i see it:  you seem to be very negative in what you post here.

Jeff

unknown member
(unknown member)
Re: Latest Fujifilm Quarterly Result
In reply to jeff mungar, Feb 7, 2013

jeff mungar wrote:

ratty; i am more of a silent observer/reader of this forum. i do not contribuite much but do enjoy reading through the fuji forum. i must say that i am coming to the conclusioon that you are acting like a troll. i have read many, many of your posts on various threads and they are almost always casting a negative spin on whatever the topic happens to be. i do not mean to be insulting in any way, i do not know you. but i am calling it as i see it: you seem to be very negative in what you post here.

Jeff

You prefer I make up stuff about Fujifilm's financial results?

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unknown member
(unknown member)
Re: Latest Fujifilm Quarterly Result
In reply to shigzeo, Feb 7, 2013

shigzeo ? wrote:

rattymouse wrote:

BobYIL wrote:

Right in last September USD was about 78 JYen. Today it's hovering above 93. Euromarket is in recession. See how Nikon dropped the prices two times in the last six months.

To keep the production lines running they can not cut the quotas (otherwise it would be next to impossible to regain the markets) so they operate with loss or minute profit margins. Actually most of them are contented if they compensate for the overhead costs, especially the R&D to keep the new models oncoming; just to maintain our interest in their brand... Otherwise no chance to survive.

BTW following March there could be a new wave of price cuts..

-- hide signature --

BobYIL

The yen's fall has been dramatic. Good timing for me as I'll be in Japan next week for a 7 day holiday.

I keep wondering when Fujifilm's imaging division will report a profit. I've looked all the way back to 2005 and have not found any year where they made money selling cameras. Bizarre.

-- hide signature --

DISCLAIMER: The text written herein is meant to provide the opinions and/or suggestions of the author. No statement herein is meant to be considered law of the land, representative of any party or group, and or a quote from any party or group. Neither is any statement in the contained text meant to be taken as scripture, doctrine, or all encompassing of an entire populous or any groups or individuals therein.

If you come anywhere near Tokyo, give me a ring. I'd love to meet up and if you need, show you around a bit. My employment allows for certain field trips.

Thank you for the kind offer. Sadly we have already "done" Tokyo and so will be in the Osaka/Kyoto area.

Any tips/suggestions for Kyoto?  I'll happily take them!

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DISCLAIMER: The text written herein is meant to provide the opinions and/or suggestions of the author. No statement herein is meant to be considered law of the land, representative of any party or group, and or a quote from any party or group. Neither is any statement in the contained text meant to be taken as scripture, doctrine, or all encompassing of an entire populous or any groups or individuals therein.

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jeff mungar
Regular MemberPosts: 265
Re: Latest Fujifilm Quarterly Result
In reply to rattymouse, Feb 7, 2013

i'm not questioning the financial data. i am commenting on the overall negativity of most of your posts. it is getting almost predictable. when i open one of your posts, i am expecting a negative comment regarding whatever the topic may be.

Jeff

nomad147
Contributing MemberPosts: 519
Re: Latest Fujifilm Quarterly Result
In reply to rattymouse, Feb 7, 2013

youre the only person who chooses to post something like fujis financial report and then put your spin on things in your typically negative fashion, making the forum an unpleasant experience for everyone. we would prefer that the next time DPR bans you, that you actually stay banned, that is what we would prefer.

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