XE1+35mm vs Leica M Monochrom + Lux 50

Started Feb 5, 2013 | Discussions
Kim Yee
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XE1+35mm vs Leica M Monochrom + Lux 50
Feb 5, 2013

I did a comparison shot between XE1 with 35mm vs M Monochrom + Lux 50.

The OOC jpg from the XE1 is just amazing. On normal computer screen you can hardly tell the difference.

First shot is from XE1

XE1 + 35mm @1.4

By MM

MM + 50mm @ 1.4

But at 100%, you will notice that MM outresolve the XE1 just because of the sensor and resolution of the lens.

Left is the XE1 Right is MM

Makes me wonder why I ever need the MM

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Kim

Fujifilm X-E1
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Al Valentino
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Re: XE1+35mm vs Leica M Monochrom + Lux 50
In reply to Kim Yee, Feb 5, 2013

Great post. What is the ISO?  I know the MM does very well at high ISO compared to regular M models since their is no color noise to worry about. That makes is a good choice for B&W shooters that want to work at high ISO. And then came fuji...

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Zardoz
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Re: XE1+35mm vs Leica M Monochrom + Lux 50
In reply to Kim Yee, Feb 5, 2013

No EXIF?

Not an ideal test since the subject has moved, so there will be differences in the plane of focus.

Having said that, you can only see the cloth weave in the 100% crop of the MM shot.  It's completely missing from the X-E1 shot.  No surprise, as in addition to the sensor size advantage, the MM has probably a 35% or more linear resolution advantage over the X-E1.

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Kim Yee
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Re: XE1+35mm vs Leica M Monochrom + Lux 50
In reply to Zardoz, Feb 5, 2013

Ahh, the EXIF~~ I forgot to turn it on on the export setting in my Lightroom.

Yes indeed the MM out-resolve the XE1. But to tell the truth, the OCC jpgs from the XE1 is just so good!

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km25
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Re: XE1+35mm vs Leica M Monochrom + Lux 50
In reply to Kim Yee, Feb 5, 2013

You have hit upon the most important point of all. What does the picture look like a normal viewing and normal mag. How may people will look at at the Monia Lisa with binoculars. Or a scanning electron microscope. One these LCD screens we gace on, can we really see 36MP.The depth of color, tones and accurancy ( as in chrome, like Kodachrome) is more of a factor then just line per MM or MPs or grain values. The two picture look the same because we are not test instrumnets, we are humans, whos eyes can only really see  so much detail anyway. Some of these over processed image look like cartoons. Or what it may look like to some on "Window Pain". Why I like Fuji so much is that they made the frist CCD units, a long with Kodak. They are "flim people". Say what you may about the X-Pro, only 16MP, AP-C . In the old days smaller format cameras where sharp, but the larger the negative the smoother the image was . More zones in B&W, more tones of color. The bottom line is that it image look true to life. The final image goes beyond it's format or MPs. This issue will be seen by more photographers, film is a long way from being dead! And the really great digital cameras will produce images that look like film, like Fuji. Leica to date, looks better as a film camera...like my M7. The monachrome Leica, a great idea, poorly exicuted.
kam

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Kim Yee
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Re: XE1+35mm vs Leica M Monochrom + Lux 50
In reply to km25, Feb 5, 2013

Agree. However MM makes my film camera redundant and i am seriously think of selling all my film leica cause utility really does replace all of my bw needs

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AlbertInFrance
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Re: XE1+35mm vs Leica M Monochrom + Lux 50
In reply to Kim Yee, Feb 5, 2013

I don't want to seem picky (!) but although the two full frame images are the same size the 100% crops are very different. Are you sure you've got everything right?

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deednets
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Re: XE1+35mm vs Leica M Monochrom + Lux 50
In reply to Kim Yee, Feb 5, 2013

Kim Yee wrote:

I did a comparison shot between XE1 with 35mm vs M Monochrom + Lux 50.

The OOC jpg from the XE1 is just amazing. On normal computer screen you can hardly tell the difference.

First shot is from XE1

XE1 + 35mm @1.4

By MM

MM + 50mm @ 1.4

But at 100%, you will notice that MM outresolve the XE1 just because of the sensor and resolution of the lens.

Left is the XE1 Right is MM

Makes me wonder why I ever need the MM

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Kim

Not sure whether I need glasses here but it seems to me the Leica image is scewed, look at the dimensions of the shirt, looks like you stretched this one??

Regarding the size of the pictures I would imagine it to be very very difficult to tell the difference for web resized shots ...

Cheers

Deed

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Comapedrosa
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Re: XE1+35mm vs Leica M Monochrom + Lux 50
In reply to Kim Yee, Feb 5, 2013

Kim,

Thank you so much for doing this comparison and for posting. This is very interesting - in particular since i'm in the market for a an X-E1 or X-Pro1 (that i absolutely don't need :-))

Now please don't flame me, but to my eyes the full MM shot does have a 3D quality that the X-E1 picture doesn't have - and yes, i know it's almost suicidal to bring this up, but i've been around long enough, with some Leica and non-Leica experience to venture here...

It might be that the Leica shot is slightly overexposed, a bit more contrasty, has a bit more bokeh, and the shirt is further turned towards the camera...

... therefore it would be absolutely fantastic if you were open to creating 1-2 new comparison shots - same setting but different, static, subjects.

Again,

Thank you for doing the comparison in the first place!

CP

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Austin101
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Re: XE1+35mm vs Leica M Monochrom + Lux 50
In reply to deednets, Feb 5, 2013

deednets wrote:

Kim Yee wrote:

I did a comparison shot between XE1 with 35mm vs M Monochrom + Lux 50.

The OOC jpg from the XE1 is just amazing. On normal computer screen you can hardly tell the difference.

First shot is from XE1

XE1 + 35mm @1.4

By MM

MM + 50mm @ 1.4

But at 100%, you will notice that MM outresolve the XE1 just because of the sensor and resolution of the lens.

Left is the XE1 Right is MM

Makes me wonder why I ever need the MM

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Kim

Not sure whether I need glasses here but it seems to me the Leica image is scewed, look at the dimensions of the shirt, looks like you stretched this one??

Regarding the size of the pictures I would imagine it to be very very difficult to tell the difference for web resized shots ...

Cheers

Deed

I was thinking that myself, looks odd

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Ryan Williams
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Re: XE1+35mm vs Leica M Monochrom + Lux 50
In reply to Austin101, Feb 5, 2013

If you flick between the two images it's apparent that one was shot at a different angle. The MM shot captures the shirt from a more front-on perspective.

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Kim Yee
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Re: XE1+35mm vs Leica M Monochrom + Lux 50
In reply to deednets, Feb 5, 2013

I think the shirt rotate a bit because of the wind after the xe1 shot. I didn't stretch it. However i do think the leica shot is bit overexposed cause the meter reading is more spot like and it is reading off the darker green shirt. Hence the shutter speed is slower. I think i should do a more controlled comparison of static object.

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Kim Yee
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Re: XE1+35mm vs Leica M Monochrom + Lux 50
In reply to Ryan Williams, Feb 5, 2013

Rotate by the wind...

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Le Tchetche
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Re: XE1+35mm vs Leica M Monochrom + Lux 50
In reply to Kim Yee, Feb 5, 2013

Hey Kim,

Very interesting post, great comparison.

Can you share which JPEG camera settings you are using for B&W with the X-E1 ?

Thanks !

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Indulis Bernsteins
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If you processed the XE-1 image via Lightroom you reduced the resolution
In reply to Le Tchetche, Feb 5, 2013

It isn't a fair comparison of the camera, if you used LR to process the photos.. LR is still lagging on good X-Trans sensor support. So a fair comparison is to use the out-of-camera JPEG vs LR processed Leica (I am assuming LR does a good job on the Leica). Or maybe Silkypix. Just to compare cameras.

Hopefully Lightroom is upgraded with decent X-Trans support soon. CaptureOne has been fixed up already.

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Ryan Williams
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Re: If you processed the XE-1 image via Lightroom you reduced the resolution
In reply to Indulis Bernsteins, Feb 5, 2013

Indulis Bernsteins wrote:

It isn't a fair comparison of the camera, if you used LR to process the photos.. LR is still lagging on good X-Trans sensor support. So a fair comparison is to use the out-of-camera JPEG vs LR processed Leica (I am assuming LR does a good job on the Leica). Or maybe Silkypix. Just to compare cameras.

Hopefully Lightroom is upgraded with decent X-Trans support soon. CaptureOne has been fixed up already.

I agree that there're too many variables in the air for this to be a particularly useful comparison, but just to be clear: the X-E1 photo was an out-of-camera JPEG that was modified in Lightroom. Lightroom's X-Trans issues are completely irrelevant in the context of JPEGs, indeed Lightroom can get a lot of out of the X-E1's particularly good JPEGs.

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Chris Dodkin
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Re: XE1+35mm vs Leica M Monochrom + Lux 50
In reply to Kim Yee, Feb 5, 2013

Very interesting , especially given the price differential between the two cameras.

You could buy the XE1 and all lenses in the X range, and still come in cheaper than just the Leica body!

So what do you get for the money with the Leica - how different did it feel to shoot the Leica vs the Fuji?

How did the auto-focus compare? 

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Al Valentino
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Re: XE1+35mm vs Leica M Monochrom + Lux 50
In reply to Kim Yee, Feb 5, 2013

Prior to buying my XE1 I was lusting for a Leica, even the MM, but I knew it was not something I could possibly afford. I was not happy with Nikon not updating my D300 so I researched other camera companies and came upon the X-Pro1 and then the XE1. I now own the XE1 and post like this helped cure my 'lust for Leica' disease.

It has been mentioned a few times on this thread that Fuji shooters seems to shoot more B&W than other cameras, the above test shots help to understand why. Side-by-side one can say one is better than the other, but if either is viewed alone one can find nothing lacking.

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Asylum Photo
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Re: XE1+35mm vs Leica M Monochrom + Lux 50
In reply to Kim Yee, Feb 5, 2013

I prefer the dynamic range of the X-E1.

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Imagefoundry
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Re: XE1+35mm vs Leica M Monochrom + Lux 50
In reply to Kim Yee, Feb 5, 2013

Hello,

I find that Xtrans does particularly well with B&W - no doubt because its CFA layout is designed to favor luminance detail over chroma detail (compared to Bayer, that is). And the tonal rendition is gorgeous straight out of camera.

But Monochrom is in the league of it's own, I am afraid. With no demosaicing and great glass it's just unbeatable when it comes to large prints. I am in a process of printing a show for a major artist, and everyone involved (artist, gallerist, publisher, assistants) is drooling over the quality - the prints look amazing at 40" wide. If I didn't know I would have guessed they were taken with a 4x5 film camera.

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