Canon interview: the end of the DX pro line

Started Feb 2, 2013 | Discussions
TOF guy
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Canon interview: the end of the DX pro line
Feb 2, 2013

http://www.dpreview.com/articles/0336328811/cp-2013-interview-with-canons-masaya-maeda

"Now that full frame is appearing in cameras the size and price of the 6D, the future of APS-C at the semi-pro level is in doubt, he says: 'That's something we're considering at the moment. From our semi-pro users there's still demand for APS-C but in the future, I think we will see an increase in the number of full-frame models.' Either way, that doesn't close the door on an EOS 70D though - when asked when we can expect one, Maeda promises: 'some day in the future. Without fail.'"

Of course this is Canon's POV. But chances are high that Nikon is thinking along the same lines, which would translate into there may be a D400 "some day in the future". And that's it.

Those among us who wants a DX sensor in a pro body have to face the reality. The future is:

  • either consider switching to another manufacturer than Canon / Nikon
  • or bite the FX bullet and get a pro builld FX body
  • or scale back in terms of body built (i.e. plan the future around the D7000 successors)
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colinadams
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Re: Canon interview: the end of the DX pro line
In reply to TOF guy, Feb 2, 2013

The problem with going for a Pro FX body is (for me) the crop factor. I almost always have to crop as it is, and a longer focal length lens is not an option for me.

For others, it is the cost.

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JimPearce
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It's difficult to say exactly what he's saying here Thierry...
In reply to TOF guy, Feb 2, 2013

My guess is that we'll see an EOS 7D Mark II and a D400, but these will be the end of the line. Why have separate FX and DX semi-pro sports and wildlife cameras? All we really need is a high pixel density, high speed FX camera with a zooming viewfinder that allows us to properly see the crop.

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Phil_L
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Re: Canon interview: the end of the DX pro line
In reply to TOF guy, Feb 2, 2013

Lots of vitrolic comments!

I feel a used D3s slowly growing on me!? 

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Phil_L

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Ozonation
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Re: Canon interview: the end of the DX pro line
In reply to Phil_L, Feb 2, 2013

Phil_L wrote:

Lots of vitrolic comments!

I feel a used D3s slowly growing on me!?

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Phil_L

The D3s is great, but if Canon and Nikon are really considering this - witness the "affordable" D600, it could explain why there hasn't been a clear successor to Nikon's D300/D300s.

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JimPearce
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Double talk?
In reply to TOF guy, Feb 2, 2013

From CR:

"During my current travels, I missed an interview Masaya Maeda gave in Japan about the 7D’s successor. Below is a translated part of the interviewthat talks about the EOS 7D Mark II. It does reaffirm our thoughts that the 7D Mark II will enter new territory.

DKW:As for the readers of DigiKame Watch, there are many who are waiting for the EOS 7D’s sucessor. Up through the release of last year’s major firmware update, there were many who felt that a new model with even better specs would be released shortly…

MM:Yes, they would be correct. For us, it’s about looking at what the camera has the potential to be and then adding that to what it can currently do. I do think the current model is still very attractive to buyers. And while we are, of course, developing its successor, it’ll be one that incorporates a certain number of innovative technologies. We will not be putting out a product with merely better specs, but one that has evolved into new territory. But then again, we’re not talking about something a long time from now either."

Source? DPReview! You really need to stay up to date Thierry

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coudet
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Re: Canon interview: the end of the DX pro line
In reply to TOF guy, Feb 2, 2013

TOF guy wrote:

Those among us who wants a DX sensor in a pro body have to face the reality. The future is:
  • either consider switching to another manufacturer than Canon / Nikon

None of the other manufacturers are making such body.

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lock
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Re: Canon interview: the end of the DX pro line
In reply to TOF guy, Feb 2, 2013

If this true, what I doubt considering the other review he gave, I' m sure the FX based successor will provide the DX needs by changing the viewfinder technology. My guess is we are going to see a hi res FX sensor with a hybrid viewfinder: electronic for hi speed and full sized dx view, and traditional viewfinder for situations demanding the brightness of it. As I said elsewhere, we may see a semi mirrorless system coming with a fixed mirror up mode for very hi framerates using electronic curtains and a hybrid AF system on the sensor. This could very well be a camera with a FX sensor.

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TOF guy
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Re: Double talk?
In reply to JimPearce, Feb 2, 2013

Jim wrote:

From CR

"During my current travels, I missed an interview Masaya Maeda gave in Japan about the 7D’s successor. Below is a translated part of the interviewthat talks about the EOS 7D Mark II. It does reaffirm our thoughts that the 7D Mark II will enter new territory.

Thank you for the link. I did miss that one but ...

And while we are, of course, developing its successor, it’ll be one that incorporates a certain number of innovative technologies. We will not be putting out a product with merely better specs, but one that has evolved into new territory. But then again, we’re not talking about something a long time from now either."

that is not necessarily incompatible with the most recent interview. There will be an "7D MkII" (that's your link and is also re-stated in the most recent interview), then it will be the end of the line. Likewise there may be a D400, but it will be the last of its kind (assuming Nikon is thinking along the same lines as Canon).

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Re: Canon interview: the end of the DX pro line
In reply to coudet, Feb 2, 2013

either consider switching to another manufacturer than Canon / Nikon

None of the other manufacturers are making such body.

The bodies are there (Pentax K5-II and Olympus E5) but the systems are different.

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Re: Canon interview: the end of the DX pro line
In reply to lock, Feb 2, 2013

lock wrote:

I' m sure the FX based successor will provide the DX needs by changing the viewfinder technology. My guess is we are going to see a hi res FX sensor with a hybrid viewfinder: electronic for hi speed and full sized dx view, and traditional viewfinder for situations demanding the brightness of it.

The D800 and D4 (and very possibly other Nikon FX cameras) can dim out the VF outside the DX boundary when the cameras are set in DX mode. There is no need to change technology for this purpose.

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JimPearce
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Inadequate viewfinder magnification is a problem...
In reply to TOF guy, Feb 2, 2013

Anyway, Nikon's current FX line requires that you choose between speed and reach. lock and I see this the same way: a D300/D700 merger is on the way - but not likely in this generation.

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Kerry Pierce
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Re: Canon interview: the end of the DX pro line
In reply to TOF guy, Feb 2, 2013

TOF guy wrote:

lock wrote:

I' m sure the FX based successor will provide the DX needs by changing the viewfinder technology. My guess is we are going to see a hi res FX sensor with a hybrid viewfinder: electronic for hi speed and full sized dx view, and traditional viewfinder for situations demanding the brightness of it.

The D800 and D4 (and very possibly other Nikon FX cameras) can dim out the VF outside the DX boundary when the cameras are set in DX mode. There is no need to change technology for this purpose.

Dimming, blacking or marking the DX boundary in an FX camera is almost useless. Indeed, it is useless to me, as I find it just as easy and effective to not use it and generally have auto DX crop turned off in my FX cameras.

For FX to be as effective as a real DX camera, the viewfinder image must also be magnified 1.5x, just as what is seen in a DX viewfinder.  I believe that is what lock is getting at when he talks about the "full sized DX view" part of a hybrid viewfinder.

Kerry

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Re: Canon interview: the end of the DX pro line
In reply to lock, Feb 2, 2013

lock wrote:

If this true, what I doubt considering the other review he gave, I' m sure the FX based successor will provide the DX needs by changing the viewfinder technology. My guess is we are going to see a hi res FX sensor with a hybrid viewfinder: electronic for hi speed and full sized dx view,

My view here is that while wanting a hybrid, I'm not convinced Nikon has the EVF developed enough to keep pace with 8fps or more. Also something is going on with the LCD of the D800s; either the sensor is not reporting what it sees or the LCD has problems with the info to generate an accurate image.

A zoomable EFV would be very interesting.

and traditional viewfinder for situations demanding the brightness of it. As I said elsewhere, we may see a semi mirrorless system coming with a fixed mirror up mode for very hi framerates using electronic curtains and a hybrid AF system on the sensor. This could very well be a camera with a FX sensor.

Rags

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Re: Inadequate viewfinder magnification is a problem...
In reply to JimPearce, Feb 2, 2013

Jim wrote:

Anyway, Nikon's current FX line requires that you choose between speed and reach.

Totally agree with you. Let's for an instant assume that the D7000 successors does not offer speed and the D400 is the last of its line. If nothing changes in Nikon's line-up then the only way to get speed is the D4. Which is an expensive proposition. And it doesn't give you reach even in DX mode.

So Nikon nixing the D400 line means no reasonably priced Nikon body offering speed and reach.

A D700 successor then? I'm not optimistic. Sales wise it would be hard to squeeze in the current Nikon line up. It would appeal to some, sure, but not enough of a market.

So going back to the original subject: Nikon DX pro users may have to start re-thinking where they want to go. The DX pro body may very well be a tunnel with an end in sight. And switching to Canon won't be a way out since apparently Canon is not interested in the DX pro line past the 7D successor.

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Re: Canon interview: the end of the DX pro line
In reply to Kerry Pierce, Feb 2, 2013

Kerry wrote:

I believe that is what lock is getting at when he talks about the "full sized DX view" part of a hybrid viewfinder.

Thank you. I did miss this valid point.

I use a DK17 on a d800e makes up some of the difference

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Kerry Pierce
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Re: Canon interview: the end of the DX pro line
In reply to TOF guy, Feb 2, 2013

TOF guy wrote:

Kerry wrote:

I believe that is what lock is getting at when he talks about the "full sized DX view" part of a hybrid viewfinder.

Thank you. I did miss this valid point.

I use a DK17 on a d800e makes up some of the difference

Yes, I have read that some like to use that device. I don't like using one. When I can't use the d300 due to low light, I replace it with the d3s and a 1.4x TC. That's the only real way to achieve DX FOV, both at the sensor and viewfinder of an FX camera, IMO. But, a d3s + TC is just a little more expensive than a DK17.

Kerry

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Re: Canon interview: the end of the DX pro line
In reply to TOF guy, Feb 2, 2013

TOF guy wrote:

http://www.dpreview.com/articles/0336328811/cp-2013-interview-with-canons-masaya-maeda

"Now that full frame is appearing in cameras the size and price of the 6D, the future of APS-C at the semi-pro level is in doubt, he says: 'That's something we're considering at the moment. From our semi-pro users there's still demand for APS-C but in the future, I think we will see an increase in the number of full-frame models.' Either way, that doesn't close the door on an EOS 70D though - when asked when we can expect one, Maeda promises: 'some day in the future. Without fail.'"

Of course this is Canon's POV. But chances are high that Nikon is thinking along the same lines, which would translate into there may be a D400 "some day in the future". And that's it.

Those among us who wants a DX sensor in a pro body have to face the reality. The future is:

  • either consider switching to another manufacturer than Canon / Nikon
  • or bite the FX bullet and get a pro builld FX body
  • or scale back in terms of body built (i.e. plan the future around the D7000 successors)
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Thierry - posted as regular forum member

If that is the approach:

1) Does not make sense just for the 'added; build, others will do similar to Canon and Nikon. And some have investment in lenses etc.

2) One choice, but semi-pro or pro fx starts at 2,900 =D800, D4 being over 4k. Not a possibility for many.

3) The only option remaining for some, if there is no direct D300 replacement. That said, there are a few factors that will give an issue like buffer size etc. The other side of the coin, is that one can replace faster, if it is cheaper than a 'D400' to begin with. And plastics are fairly strong, that should not be an issue. What WILL be an issue is build quality i.e quality control and reliability. It does not seem that the current quality control, from seeing the many issues, compares to the D3, D700, D300 series. That is a shame. But, if Nikon improve QC to the extent that it needs, more would adopt the newer cameras willingly, I suspect.

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TOF guy
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Re: Canon interview: the end of the DX pro line
In reply to Bajerunner, Feb 2, 2013

Bajerunner wrote:

Thierry wrote:

The future is:

  • either consider switching to another manufacturer than Canon / Nikon
  • or bite the FX bullet and get a pro builld FX body
  • or scale back in terms of body built (i.e. plan the future around the D7000 successors)
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Thierry - posted as regular forum member

If that is the approach:

1) Does not make sense just for the 'added; build, others will do similar to Canon and Nikon. And some have investment in lenses etc.

Yes, not a pallatable solution for many

2) One choice, but semi-pro or pro fx starts at 2,900 =D800, D4 being over 4k. Not a possibility for many.

True enough

3) The only option remaining for some, if there is no direct D300 replacement. That said, there are a few factors that will give an issue like buffer size etc.

What I would personally not like about this solution is the body size. My hand feels cramped when holding a D600 or D7k. YMMV, but I have a harder time holing these bodies firmly.

But when it feels too hot under the sun I don't ask the sun to pipe it down I wear a hat. Same here. Nikon may very give up on a pro DX body. And requesting a change won't help. So it's best to start evaluating alternate options now.

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lock
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Nono.
In reply to TOF guy, Feb 2, 2013

This causes you to see a small view of the full dx field. An electronic overlay will give you full size view, similar to a regular dx camera.

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