So what is the truth, Fuji?

Started Feb 1, 2013 | Discussions
TThorne
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So what is the truth, Fuji?
Feb 1, 2013

In a recent interview, Kayce Baker, marketing director at Fujifilm North America, stated that we are likely to see the 55-200 and the 27mm by April/May (you know that means June/July, especially in North America) and that the 23mm and the 10-24mm will likely not be around until late 2013/early 2014 (Which in reality places these close to Q2 of 2014 at this rate). Also, even though asked about it, she did not mention the 56mm. What happened to the slew of lenses they promised within the year? Something like 12, was it?

With no native ultra wide angle, no 35mm equiv, no portrait lens (60 doesn't cut it with slow macro lens AF), no peaking, and Fuji pushing lenses and features around in favor of their fixed lens cameras over their system cameras, it really makes it hard to take the "system" seriously at this time. I am starting to not want to turn a blind eye to other missing features like high speed sync, a function they obviously knew would be useful when designing the X100 with a leaf shutter, but simply ignored an FP enabled flash unit for the system. How about Minimum shutter speed for auto ISO? The soon to be replaced X100 has it, but system buyers can just go suck it? How about the retarded focus point selection? They have a better solution for their beloved X100s, but no mention of reprogrammable buttons via firmware for system users.

The sad thing is that so much of this is fixed through firmware.

1)Peaking

2)Minimum Shutter Speed in Auto ISO

3)Programmable buttons and more functional scroll wheel.

As far as the flash goes, that technology is OLD now. They could easily rebrand an FP enabled flash for the system or release one themselves.

As far as the lenses go, the lack of an ultra wide is mind boggling, especially when we (equiv) 21, 27, 50, and a 42 supposedly on the way? Why not throw in a 40mm, 24mm, and 60mm while they are at it? That was sarcasm in case you missed it.

As far as the 23mm goes, that is just Fuji being greedy. People like me who bought into the system are, a lot of times X100 owners, and, like me, have preorders in for the X100s. Guess what Fuji. We would still buy the X100s and the 23mm lens despite the overlap (well, a lot of us would). But no, they need to ensure it by throwing their system users under the bus for a while.

For all the haters out there who think this forum belongs to them and that it is not alright to criticize Fuji on here, just know that my X Pro 1's are my favorite cameras i have ever owned, and that is difficult to say coming from my beloved Nikon D3 bodies and pro lenses. And that, is where my frustration comes from. I don't want another system. I want to ONLY use the X system, but it is not proving to be much of a "system" yet, and Fuji is making sure of that.

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Les Berkley
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Re: So what is the truth, Fuji?
In reply to TThorne, Feb 1, 2013

There are two things you should do.

1) Email Fuji. We can't help with this; they can.

2) Take pictures.

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Apsphoto
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Re: So what is the truth, Fuji?
In reply to TThorne, Feb 1, 2013

I hear you and understand the frustrations. I wish they would fix those things with firmware and also release the 23mm. Your points are valid. Maybe one of the things to do is write it up in a more favorable and pc manner and send it in a hard copy letter to Kayce Baker and to Fuji management. Taking the time to write a letter and send it speaks volumes. It easy to ignore emails and letters that are written to be hostile, but a well written letter with a good tone will go a long ways to modifying behavior. Just a thought and based on my experience in life.

Alan

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Alan Smallbone
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jcharding
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Re: So what is the truth, Fuji?
In reply to TThorne, Feb 1, 2013

Wow.

I think some of your concerns are a bit overstated.  For example there is a poll ongoing where a lot of people don't really care about auto-ISO.  I understand that it might be important to some, but I don't know that it rises to this level.

Second, we are all impatient.  I'd love to see that wide-angle zoom.  But this is a new system.  Expecting so much so soon is IMHO unrealistic.

Last, I think the desire for firmware updates vastly exceeds what is financially wise for any camera company.  You can only give major free updates to older cameras for so long.  Or pieces of software, which is why Windows, or Apple or Adobe adopt similar practices.

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baobob
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Re: So what is the truth, Fuji?
In reply to TThorne, Feb 1, 2013

Although I fully agree with your post, I would like to add some comments

1/ "le monde ne s'est pas fait en 1 jour" as a philosophical remark

2/- the products released by Fuji belong to a very high quality standard eg the last zoom

3/- The 2 pigs are not innovative at all espacially C....n

4/- In a free world, everybody can get the sustem that suits him/her best ....

These were my 3mn of philosophy

Cheers

Robert

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Brond1
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Agreed
In reply to TThorne, Feb 1, 2013

I'm with you. Certainly not turning my back on the x-pro1 but feeling aggrieved. 10-24, 23mm and 56mm is really what I wanted in first place. I know it's just a matter of taste, but to me those focal lengths have a "rightness" that the FF equivalent: 28/50/90  do not.

It's not that I want to be constantly chopping and changing (that's for bodies) - but I bought in on basis of a road map and commitment to rolling the lenses out swiftly.

Harrumph

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Imagefoundry
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Re: So what is the truth, Fuji?
In reply to TThorne, Feb 1, 2013

There's no way to tell whether XF lenses are being delivered with a delay because of marketing games (X100s is likely to be a hit) or re-design - I think the market reaction to initial 3 lenses was "great glass, lousy electronics".

Really hope it's the latter 

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TThorne
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Re: So what is the truth, Fuji?
In reply to Les Berkley, Feb 1, 2013

Les Berkley wrote:

There are two things you should do.

1) Email Fuji. We can't help with this; they can.

2) Take pictures.

Fuji will most likely ignore an email. They aren't much more likely to pay attention to a public flogging, so I have little hope my rant will change anything. Actually, you could help, MAYBE. Future poster in this thread will flame me for what I have said, but if instead, they were to join in when it comes to these topics and not always assure Fuji that they are infallible, then maybe Fuji would pay closer attention to the public flogging. If those posters could see that it is in their actual benefit that Fuji improve, then they might join in in their own voice.

I take a lot of pictures because I am a working photographer, sometimes more in a day than I would like.

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TThorne
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Re: So what is the truth, Fuji?
In reply to Apsphoto, Feb 1, 2013

Apsphoto wrote:

I hear you and understand the frustrations. I wish they would fix those things with firmware and also release the 23mm. Your points are valid. Maybe one of the things to do is write it up in a more favorable and pc manner and send it in a hard copy letter to Kayce Baker and to Fuji management. Taking the time to write a letter and send it speaks volumes. It easy to ignore emails and letters that are written to be hostile, but a well written letter with a good tone will go a long ways to modifying behavior. Just a thought and based on my experience in life.

Alan

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Alan Smallbone
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While I feel that a letter would just get pitched in the trash, I do agree with you about my tone. I am normally better about communication, but, in the words of Jonathan Davis, "Im feeling mean today".

You are right though on that Alan. Thank you for reminding me.

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TThorne
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Re: So what is the truth, Fuji?
In reply to jcharding, Feb 1, 2013

jcharding wrote:

Wow.

I think some of your concerns are a bit overstated. For example there is a poll ongoing where a lot of people don't really care about auto-ISO. I understand that it might be important to some, but I don't know that it rises to this level.

Second, we are all impatient. I'd love to see that wide-angle zoom. But this is a new system. Expecting so much so soon is IMHO unrealistic.

Last, I think the desire for firmware updates vastly exceeds what is financially wise for any camera company. You can only give major free updates to older cameras for so long. Or pieces of software, which is why Windows, or Apple or Adobe adopt similar practices.

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Exactly why Fuji should not be concerned. When people say things like this, they feel a lot more justified.

Not that you are saying anything bad...

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TThorne
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Re: So what is the truth, Fuji?
In reply to baobob, Feb 1, 2013

baobob wrote:

Although I fully agree with your post, I would like to add some comments

1/ "le monde ne s'est pas fait en 1 jour" as a philosophical remark

Its been longer than that.

2/- the products released by Fuji belong to a very high quality standard eg the last zoom

I agree, and my issue is not one against taking time to do it right, but rather behavioral and with regards to making decisions. Had I known the roadmap would be so far off, I would have waited a while. But that is the point, right Fuji?

3/- The 2 pigs are not innovative at all espacially C....n

Okay, I don't have time to think about this one. From the angry tone of my first post, please excuse my clouded head today.

4/- In a free world, everybody can get the sustem that suits him/her best ....

You are correct. And in an honest world...

These were my 3mn of philosophy

Cheers

Robert

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TThorne
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Re: Agreed
In reply to Brond1, Feb 1, 2013

Brond1 wrote:

I'm with you. Certainly not turning my back on the x-pro1 but feeling aggrieved. 10-24, 23mm and 56mm is really what I wanted in first place. I know it's just a matter of taste, but to me those focal lengths have a "rightness" that the FF equivalent: 28/50/90 do not.

It's not that I want to be constantly chopping and changing (that's for bodies) - but I bought in on basis of a road map and commitment to rolling the lenses out swiftly.

Harrumph

http://www.flickr.com/photos/keithernesto/

And that is it right there! We love the X Pro 1 and definitely don't want to turn our backs on it. That makes us good, loyal Fuji customers who appreciate the innovation and where Fuji is going. Now, if they would reciprocate...

Thanks for this contribution.

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sgoldswo
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Re: So what is the truth, Fuji?
In reply to TThorne, Feb 1, 2013

I don't agree on the 23mm - I think delaying that is good business. Personally I would have preferred a F2 lens anyway.

The UWA and portrait lens are very disapointing though.

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TThorne
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Re: So what is the truth, Fuji?
In reply to Imagefoundry, Feb 1, 2013

Imagefoundry wrote:

There's no way to tell whether XF lenses are being delivered with a delay because of marketing games (X100s is likely to be a hit) or re-design - I think the market reaction to initial 3 lenses was "great glass, lousy electronics".

Really hope it's the latter

Me too! You know, I have wondered if they might be redesigning things for compatibility with eventual full frame (If that is even possible), or maybe pitching the wire and allowing mechanical MF? Maybe they want to incorporate the new motors in the 23 and 56? Happy to see any of these.

I wish they would say something. Honestly though, the 23mm thing I believe is purely marketing and, like I said, throwing system customers under the bus.

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TThorne
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Re: So what is the truth, Fuji?
In reply to sgoldswo, Feb 1, 2013

sgoldswo wrote:

I don't agree on the 23mm - I think delaying that is good business. Personally I would have preferred a F2 lens anyway.

You prefer slower (you know you can stop a 1.4 lens down to f/2) or are you just assuming an f/2 lens would be a pancake? Not saying it would or wouldn't be, but remember that a good portion of the X100 lens is actually fitted in the body, so not necessarily a pancake.

Also, depends on what you think "good business" is. I am sure there are people who will not buy into the system because of that particular lens option, or lack thereof. That is bad business. Returning loyalty, or in this case not doing so with early adopters of the system cameras is bad business. The only purpose it serves is greed, which is not always good business. I'd have bought both, personally, so it wouldn't matter and Fuji would get their lousy money anyway.

To further elaborate. Look at Canon, Nikon, Sony, Olympus, Panasonic... They know that good business means selling system cameras and all the lenses that follow. They don't hurt their system sales by holding back lenses people are really wanting badly in favor of some fixed lens camera. That is along the lines of what hurt Fuji in the past with the S Series. They went with Nikon mounts and let Nikon make all the money on the lens sales.

The UWA and portrait lens are very disapointing though.

True...

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Apsphoto
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Re: So what is the truth, Fuji?
In reply to TThorne, Feb 1, 2013

TThorne wrote:


I wish they would say something. Honestly though, the 23mm thing I believe is purely marketing and, like I said, throwing system customers under the bus.


Well you could always get the zoom and tape it to 23mm..... yes I know it is not the same and is not as fast so the shallow dof would not be there. Sigh, I was so looking forward to it too....

Alan

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Bernie Ess
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Re: So what is the truth, Fuji?
In reply to Apsphoto, Feb 1, 2013
Maybe one of the things to do is write it up in a more favorable and pc manner and send it in a hard copy letter to Kayce Baker and to Fuji management.

Where will I find a business adress of Kayce baker?

Thanks

Bernie

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Bernie Ess
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Re: So what is the truth, Fuji?
In reply to jcharding, Feb 1, 2013
For example there is a poll ongoing where a lot of people don't really care about auto-ISO. I

Last time I checked that Poll (it was me who initiated it) about 2/3ds considered it important, 1/3 not very much.
If this has any representative value (and it does, albeit not in exact numbers, but roughly) more than half of the X- line user base wants this feature.
Should be enough for Fuji to implement it!
Bernie
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hellocrowley
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Re: So what is the truth, Fuji?
In reply to TThorne, Feb 1, 2013

TThorne wrote:

Imagefoundry wrote:

There's no way to tell whether XF lenses are being delivered with a delay because of marketing games (X100s is likely to be a hit) or re-design - I think the market reaction to initial 3 lenses was "great glass, lousy electronics".

Really hope it's the latter

I wish they would say something. Honestly though, the 23mm thing I believe is purely marketing and, like I said, throwing system customers under the bus.

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A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on. - Sir Winston Churchill

I, too, am disappointed about the 23, 10-24 and 56 (the 3 lenses I need the most). This is a reminder for all (including me) who buy into rosy promises: take fine prints seriously. "Roadmap is subjected to change".

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Al Valentino
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Re: So what is the truth, Fuji?
In reply to TThorne, Feb 1, 2013

I'd like to see the lens roadmap updated. The one we have is from June 2012. At least then we can readjust our expectations.

From the perspective of early adopters, not XE1 owners like myself, the wait for lenses will be two full years, early 2012 to early (or mid) 2014. Sadly, it might be longer if one is waiting on Aperture or Adobe to optimize for X-trans.

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