Olympus Statement About Fourthirds and Micro Fourthirds

Started Jan 31, 2013 | Discussions
Forgottenbutnotgone
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Re: Well said Robert
In reply to Darrell500, Feb 5, 2013

Darrell500 wrote:

I understand your points, it has been a hard road to stay with the Olympus system especially if use one of the entry level bodies like the 520, 620 and E30.

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Darrell

Thanks, Darrell, I appreciate your response and sorry for this late one. I'll be as glad as the next person when the situation with Olympus improves, but right now it just seems that the forum is reflecting reality that exists for a large number of Olympus users.

Robert

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kuaimen
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Re: Olympus Statement About Fourthirds and Micro Fourthirds
In reply to Darrell500, Feb 5, 2013

Looks like a bunch of "good" Olympus cameras are coming out later this year, including the much-expected E-7 (or whatever that E camera / cameras might be), it's time to ask for some features that costs Olympus virtually nothing to implement.

There are a bunch of software gimmicks already in Olympus cameras, like the pin hole effect, etc. I am sure some people will find that fun to use sometimes, albeit rarely (I guess).

There is one gimmick I believe could be really useful to many (if not all) Olympus camera users. It's rather a simple one. As I use PC, I do not know an easy way to batch rename files. As a result, my photos are given the rather "scientific" (cryptic) file names by Olympus. Not user-friendly. I ended up naming folders with descriptive names to keep track of things as much as I can, such as "20121225_Xmax_in_Central_Park". This way, my folders are sorted in a way I like. Files in the folders of course are not nicely sorted (In Linux, files can be easily renamed using a batch command but I am using PC for photos not too smart I know).

Ideally, if Olympus can let users define photo file names, that would be great. One example naming template can be something like

yyyymmdd_desriptive_text_photo_number

That's all I need to name my photos neatly. For example, for a kid's birthday event, the photos would be named like

20130218_John_Doe_Birthday_Party_NYC_1.orf

20130218_John_Doe_Birthday_Party_NYC_2.orf

That's a piece of cake in software implementation, but a huge plus in organizing the photos.

Olympus, listen up, I am not going to charge you royalty for using this scheme in your cameras!

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Chris Mak
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Re: LMAO, deja vu, pris...
In reply to skeys, Feb 5, 2013

skeys wrote:

pris, the scenario you describe above is almost, word for word, what has been happening with Pentax and their release of the K-5ii. And with that Pentax scenario has come almost all of the same arguments in the Pentax forum as we see in this forum. In each case, neither manufacturer gives out any advance information.

I wonder in how many other forums the same, speculative discussions are taking place.

Steve

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The situation is quite different here: the Olympus E5 (which I owned for a while) was never a really matured camera due solely to a substandard sensor at the heart of it. In addition Olympus openly debated the possibility that it might well be their last 4/3 Dslr.

The Pentax K5 on the other hand, was a very mature camera that had a few weaker points, amongst which a somewhat inconsistent AF, and a so-so rear LCD screen, but offered unrivaled IQ below FF. The Pentax K5II addressed the weaker points, and although a K3 with 24mp was expected, reception overall of the updated K5 was positive, simply because it was a stellar camera to begin with. Slowly people are starting to discover the K5IIs, that features the same updates but without AA-filter. It has absolutely top-level IQ, and is hard to improve upon. Olympus has a lót of ground to make up for, if they want to offer 4/3 lens owners a similar package for 1200,-

Chris

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pris
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Discretionary dterminations
In reply to Chris Mak, Feb 5, 2013

I'd respectfully submit that your definition of what constitutes "mature" camera, whatever it is, will probably look different to someone with different subject and style of shooting. A photographer for whom, according to his shooting habits and needs, stronger points of E-5 and a system as a whole matter more while sensor capabilities cover his IQ needs (with clear promise of further improvement coming soon) will consider it more "mature."

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alatchin
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Re: The 3 Olympus Micro Four Thirds Lines
In reply to Everdog, Feb 5, 2013

Everdog wrote:

PEN - E-Px, E-PLx, E-PMx - old PEN style

OMD - E-Mx - Retro Film camera look

E - new DSLR style hybrid

Olympus does not have that DSLR style camera with integrated flash and large grip like the GH3 yet. That will be the new "E" series that looks just like the old "E" series, but will use M43 lenses and 43 lenses with an adapter.

As long as it focuses my lenses as fast as my E-3 did, with better CAF (not that I use it, i am simply wishing that for others) at the very least... I will buy it.

There are a lot of areas they can make it stand out, better video... Look at what panasonic can do with the GH2, better connctivity (mic in headphones out tethering)... Hey maybe even get exciting, add some tilt and shift to the sensor control so we can tilt the sensor or shift it... Throw in an automatic lens calibration setting to save me pixel peeping and tweaking and testing (using CDAF and PDAF)...

Just having some fun. I need a new body for my 43rds lenses... and I spend way too long looking at E-5s and E-30s online... just gimme that new body.

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skeys
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Chris, you glossed over...
In reply to Chris Mak, Feb 5, 2013

much of what has been argued about amongst Pentax owners since I began reading that forum in early 2009. For example: can't get information from Pentax management, disappearance of the lens roadmap, when will we see a FF body, lens price rises after the Hoya purchase, when will a new flash unit be released, what about longer tele lenses (and now that the new tele lens will be released shortly: "$7,000? Are you kidding?), the great number of Pentax owners who left Pentax for Canon and Nikon FF equipment, the death of Pentax Real Soon Now, all the discussion of what Pentax management REALLY meant by their comments when interviewed, the just released video of last week's interview of some Pentax management (on the other forum) which is, as we speak, being pieced apart by concerned Pentax owners.

The K-5ii was admitted to be an interim release by Pentax management. It was all that could be done quickly after their purchase by Ricoh, from Hoya. Many Pentax owners were hoping for/expecting a newer, 24-mpx sensor and better flash management in the next K-5 model. There are those who have purchased the K-5ii/K-5iis and are quite happy. There still are those waiting for the REAL next K-5 model. And there are those still waiting for the FF model.

I wonder if much of that sounds familiar to the Oly equipment owners in this forum. Well, OK, I don't wonder; I read about it every day in both forums.

Steve

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erichK
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Disagree about price point
In reply to kuaimen, Feb 5, 2013

kuaimen wrote:


Stacey_K wrote:

alatchin wrote:

Stacey_K wrote:

kuaimen wrote:

$1500 or below for an E-7 is something acceptable. Olympus, wise up! Do not price people into the 35mm FF world.

That is the key. I "added" nikon gear as I gave up waiting on olympus this fall and lusted for something that was more than just incrementally better than the olympus bodies I already own. As the prices of FF gear drops, I personally -would- buy a E7 (E70?) body but I'm not going to pay $1800 for it when a D600 is $2000. I believe they would be smart to price the body attractively and hope to make their profits off the lenses people will buy to use on it.If the only thing they release is close to $2000, I'll likely get out of 4/3 and buy a D600 later this year instead.

Would you agree that it could justify the price on additional functionality / features? Admittedly the E-7 as an E-5 with OMD sensor may be hard to swallow for $1700, but if they can make it a new camera, $1700 would be a fair price for the quality one would be getting.


Depends on what "features" we are talking about. If it has improved VR etc than possibly.

It still will be a hard sell to people who aren't already invested in 4/3 glass. If it's "art filters" or some other software, then no, those types of features won't warrant a higher price. I would think a camera body would be more like a razor handle, they don't make money off the handle, they make their money off the blades. Clearly they need to make a profit but if they price it too close to a FF camera, it probably won't sell well IMHO.

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Stacey

Unless it's something really wonderful and USEFUL to the majority of users, it won't justify a price hike. If it's just some software gimmick, people won't pay.

The PC market is a very good example. Unless a PC's price increase is backed up by real hardware (GBs for memory and disk; Ghzs for CPU, Inches for screen, # of cores), people won't pay. This is exactly why Olympus has to price E cameras right - people already believe (rightfully) that 35mm sensor camera should be more expensive and E camera should be cheaper. Whether that actually translates into better photo/tool is an entirely different (even irrelevant) story. The price difference needs to be significant to be meaningful.

Of course, if Olympus can figure out Apple's secret (selling less, far less hardware for more, far more money), that's another story.

Apple's secret was to sell more *useful* computers than the competition.  I bought a MacBook Pro after noting that this was the laptop of choice for the leading engineers attending conferences I participated in for several years.  Some of these people ran whole engineering faculties and research facilities replete with advanced computers.  They could surely have brought laptops with faster CPU's and GPU's, etc.  But they brought along the best tool for the job.

THAT is what any new "pro" Olympus camera must be.  As useful, in its category, as the OM-D has proven in mFT's.   This, for me, means a truly weatherproof and durable camera with great ergonomics as well as at least an OM-D level sensor and good CAF as well as excellent AF.  Other features such as an excellent VF, decent high ISO/noise performance and DR are also important, but how it handles in the field, in rain, sand or freezing sleet remain key for me, and IMHO, for a pro DSLR, especially when a decent range of pro lenses is already available.

And that could, for me, certainly justify a price pretty close to that of a D600, though I do agree that it will sell better if they manage to price it significantly lower.

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erichK
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Chris Mak
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Re: Chris, you glossed over...
In reply to skeys, Feb 5, 2013

skeys wrote:

much of what has been argued about amongst Pentax owners since I began reading that forum in early 2009. For example: can't get information from Pentax management, disappearance of the lens roadmap, when will we see a FF body, lens price rises after the Hoya purchase, when will a new flash unit be released, what about longer tele lenses (and now that the new tele lens will be released shortly: "$7,000? Are you kidding?), the great number of Pentax owners who left Pentax for Canon and Nikon FF equipment, the death of Pentax Real Soon Now, all the discussion of what Pentax management REALLY meant by their comments when interviewed, the just released video of last week's interview of some Pentax management (on the other forum) which is, as we speak, being pieced apart by concerned Pentax owners.

The K-5ii was admitted to be an interim release by Pentax management. It was all that could be done quickly after their purchase by Ricoh, from Hoya. Many Pentax owners were hoping for/expecting a newer, 24-mpx sensor and better flash management in the next K-5 model. There are those who have purchased the K-5ii/K-5iis and are quite happy. There still are those waiting for the REAL next K-5 model. And there are those still waiting for the FF model.

I wonder if much of that sounds familiar to the Oly equipment owners in this forum. Well, OK, I don't wonder; I read about it every day in both forums.

Steve

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Steve, I only started following the Pentax forum when I bought a K5 april last year, still I am well aware of the situation Pentax has been in, and still is in. If you want to buy safely into a professional level photographic outfit, then Pentax surely is not the way to go, at least at this moment. Pentax excels at certain things, as does Olympus. They are comparable in ways, relatively small and trying to distinguish themselves to stay in business.

The difference that matters is, that Pentax díd release an update to a well received camera, that was very competitively priced and offers a lot for what you pay for it. You can argue endlessly that the Olympus E5 also offers a lot for the (800,- more) money, but I have always felt, and still feel, that shooting very expensive telelenses as the 150, 90-250 and 300mm for wildlife or birding, you deserve a camera body that does't practically drown in noise from 400 iso and upwards, and cannot handle the tonality and dynamic range of the real world very well at all (which isn't to say that it cannot produce sharp images that look very good, but within a quite limited scope). I sold the E5 and moved to Pentax, because of the ambiguous attitude Olympus management has had towards 4/3, not in a rush at all to give 4/3 owners better options. I think that even with their (very) limited means, Pentax has been putting in a better effort. All the better if Olympus now decides it has to rush to keep 4/3 from slipping away altogether, but saying that E-xxx and E-xx owners are entitled to new releases to keep enjoying their photography, is a sudden and unexpected (to say the least) break with their previous messages, that were meant to get E-xxx and E-xx shooters to move to m4/3, by deliberately ignoring the possibility of future 4/3 cameras in that class.

The Pentax 560mm/5.6 is a remarkable release yes, and I'm not sure in a good sense, it's far too expensive for the maximum aperture. IQ and AF will have to be quite good to justify the price. I chose the Sigma 500/4.5. But probably only Olympus could make a birding/wildlife super telelens as good as the Canons. We were once wishing for a 400/f5.6 over here. It will be good news if Olympus decides to revive 4/3, even if it won't make them a lot of money.

Chris

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pris
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There goes credibility...
In reply to Chris Mak, Feb 5, 2013

Chris Mak wrote

...practically drown in noise from 400 iso and upwards

Using E-5 up to 1000 with no problem, and up to 1600 with considerable postprocesing effort, for purposes including successful submissions to stock (reviewed at 100% for acceptance) and for prints up to 18x20, this "drown in noise from 400" sounds way way overblown.

Look, no one denies that K-5 sensor handles noise better, has wider DR and allows for more latitude in shadows lifting. But such exaggerations as yours look like putting down E-5 with not as much as shred of objectivity.

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Craig from Nevada
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Re: Olympus Statement About Fourthirds and Micro Fourthirds
In reply to Darrell500, Feb 5, 2013

I think an overpriced adapter would fulfill the promise made in this statement.

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