X-e1 - doubt about sharpness

Started Jan 29, 2013 | Discussions
Christof21
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X-e1 - doubt about sharpness
Jan 29, 2013

Hi,

I hesitate buying the x-e1, I wouldn't if I was certain to obtain an excellent IQ. Despite all the enthusiastic critics, I am surprised to see that some photos are non sharp..

Have a look at the studio scene, jpeg or raw whatever and compare it with Pentax K-30 or Nex, the results are less sharp (look at the card for instance...). Is there any reasons ?

I have seen also critics for some photos on a review, and it was not so sharp..

Can you help me decide ???

Thanks,

Christophe

Fujifilm X-E1 Pentax K-30
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Tom Schum
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Re: X-e1 - doubt about sharpness
In reply to Christof21, Jan 29, 2013

It could very well be true that the X-E1 delivers less sharpness than some other cameras.

I'm satisfied with the results I am getting from my X-E1, which came with the wonderful 18-55 kit zoom.  I can print 19"x13" and everything is adequately sharp from corner to corner.

Sharpness is only one element in the whole, others are color rendering, ease of use, on and on.

Here is a pretty good sample shot.  I think it's pretty sharp.



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nixda
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Re: X-e1 - doubt about sharpness
In reply to Christof21, Jan 29, 2013

Christof21 wrote:

Hi,

I hesitate buying the x-e1, I wouldn't if I was certain to obtain an excellent IQ. Despite all the enthusiastic critics, I am surprised to see that some photos are non sharp..

Have a look at the studio scene, jpeg or raw whatever and compare it with Pentax K-30 or Nex, the results are less sharp (look at the card for instance...). Is there any reasons ?

I have seen also critics for some photos on a review, and it was not so sharp..

Can you help me decide ???

Thanks,

Christophe

I wouldn't trust any of these comparisons.

1. The JPEG version of the studio scene is done with default settings. To get a sharper image, crank up sharpness to +2. Other aspects might suffer, though.

2. The RAW version has been processed with ACR, and it's known to have its fair share of problems.

3. Different lenses were used for the shot.

The only way to get to the bottom of this is to process the images yourself.

Having said that, the X-E1/18-55mm combo compares favorably to my D7000/18-200mm combo when it comes to sharpness and detail. YMMV.

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baobob
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Re: X-e1 - doubt about sharpness
In reply to Christof21, Jan 29, 2013

I have also a X100, a 5D2 and IMO the XP1 is at least as sharp as the big EOS at the same print size (which means some enlargement for the Fuji)

Moreover color rendition, management of tonal curve and global DR is much better with the XP1

IMHO one of the very best rather compact cameras today

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Christof21
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Re: X-e1 - doubt about sharpness
In reply to nixda, Jan 29, 2013

nixda wrote:

Christof21 wrote:

Hi,

I hesitate buying the x-e1, I wouldn't if I was certain to obtain an excellent IQ. Despite all the enthusiastic critics, I am surprised to see that some photos are non sharp..

Have a look at the studio scene, jpeg or raw whatever and compare it with Pentax K-30 or Nex, the results are less sharp (look at the card for instance...). Is there any reasons ?

I have seen also critics for some photos on a review, and it was not so sharp..

Can you help me decide ???

Thanks,

Christophe

I wouldn't trust any of these comparisons.

1. The JPEG version of the studio scene is done with default settings. To get a sharper image, crank up sharpness to +2. Other aspects might suffer, though.

2. The RAW version has been processed with ACR, and it's known to have its fair share of problems.

3. Different lenses were used for the shot.

The only way to get to the bottom of this is to process the images yourself.

Having said that, the X-E1/18-55mm combo compares favorably to my D7000/18-200mm combo when it comes to sharpness and detail. YMMV.

I understand but I am not completely convinced. The defaut JPEG settings should not show such a difference, in many cases I will use these settings.

I see terrific pictures taken with this camera but I know that a good photographer with good lenses can get to these results. I did hope that we could obtain a fair comparison with this studio scene. I think this is not an accident, X-pro1 gives the same results (which is normal).

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DJF77
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Re: X-e1 - doubt about sharpness
In reply to Christof21, Jan 29, 2013

im amazed we still get posts like these - I have owned many systems (Canon, Nikon, NEX7). You will not find a better image regardless of what you are looking for than the Fuji & it's superb glass, for APS-C, period. Lets throw 95% of Full frame systems in to that for good measure.

Id suggest getting a new monitor or popping down to your local opticians if you seriously think you won't get a sharp image out of the XE-1

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baobob
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Re: X-e1 - doubt about sharpness
In reply to DJF77, Jan 29, 2013

Excellent

Thx

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Christof21
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Re: X-e1 - doubt about sharpness
In reply to DJF77, Jan 29, 2013

DJF77 wrote:

im amazed we still get posts like these - I have owned many systems (Canon, Nikon, NEX7). You will not find a better image regardless of what you are looking for than the Fuji & it's superb glass, for APS-C, period. Lets throw 95% of Full frame systems in to that for good measure.

Id suggest getting a new monitor or popping down to your local opticians if you seriously think you won't get a sharp image out of the XE-1

Just have a look at the studio scene comparator...

You can send me pretty pictures, but you don't know the resuts another camera would give. I have a doubt with landscape pictures (the trees, leaves don't seem so sharp)

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rosvo
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Re: X-e1 - doubt about sharpness
In reply to DJF77, Jan 29, 2013

DJF77 wrote:

Id suggest getting a new monitor or popping down to your local opticians if you seriously think you won't get a sharp image out of the XE-1

buying one, like I did, is a good solution too 

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deednets
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Re: X-e1 - doubt about sharpness
In reply to Christof21, Jan 29, 2013

Christof21 wrote:

Hi,

I hesitate buying the x-e1, I wouldn't if I was certain to obtain an excellent IQ. Despite all the enthusiastic critics, I am surprised to see that some photos are non sharp..

Have a look at the studio scene, jpeg or raw whatever and compare it with Pentax K-30 or Nex, the results are less sharp (look at the card for instance...). Is there any reasons ?

I have seen also critics for some photos on a review, and it was not so sharp..

Can you help me decide ???

Thanks,

Christophe

I posted this yesterday ... have a look at the detail at 100% on the crop:

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/post/50757994

Hope this helps?

Cheers

Deed

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viking79
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Re: X-e1 - doubt about sharpness
In reply to Christof21, Jan 29, 2013

Christof21 wrote:

Hi,

I hesitate buying the x-e1, I wouldn't if I was certain to obtain an excellent IQ. Despite all the enthusiastic critics, I am surprised to see that some photos are non sharp..

Have a look at the studio scene, jpeg or raw whatever and compare it with Pentax K-30 or Nex, the results are less sharp (look at the card for instance...). Is there any reasons ?

The card is out of focus, check the focus on the XE1 and you will see it is front-focused from the other cameras in the comparison.

I have seen also critics for some photos on a review, and it was not so sharp..

Can you help me decide ???

Thanks,

Christophe

Sharpness is not one of the issues with the XE1.

Eric

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viking79
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Re: X-e1 - doubt about sharpness
In reply to viking79, Jan 29, 2013

viking79 wrote:

Christof21 wrote:

Hi,

I hesitate buying the x-e1, I wouldn't if I was certain to obtain an excellent IQ. Despite all the enthusiastic critics, I am surprised to see that some photos are non sharp..

Have a look at the studio scene, jpeg or raw whatever and compare it with Pentax K-30 or Nex, the results are less sharp (look at the card for instance...). Is there any reasons ?

The card is out of focus, check the focus on the XE1 and you will see it is front-focused from the other cameras in the comparison.

Here is evidence of focus issue:

Comparison at front

Note how the text near the front is sharper with the Fuji. The card is way at the back of the scene so it is looking less sharp on the Fuji which is relatively front focused. They also have a slightly different perspective.

The Nikon also has a slightly soft card at the back, but also slightly front focused.  I like the studio comparison tools here and on IR, but they are deceptive if you don't look for focus differences, etc.

Any other differences are likely due to sharpening differences, etc.

Eric

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viking79
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Re: X-e1 - doubt about sharpness
In reply to viking79, Jan 29, 2013

And one more thing, this was photographed with the 35mm f/1.4 lens, which is an excellent lens, but might perform differently than the Pentax 50mm f/2.8 Macro at a close focus like this. Plus, you have to get even closer with the 35mm to get the same framing as with the 50mm, so you are in a region where the 35mm might not be performing its best.

Here is my review of the Fuji 35mm f/1.4 lens though (it is the highest LW/PH lens I have tested, but I think that is due to lack of AA filter), and possible over sharpening by Lightroom.  I need to test it with a JPEG from camera too.

http://erphotoreview.com/wordpress/?p=3068

That being said, the XTrans is not perfect of course, there are tradeoffs, but sensor sharpness is not a reason to avoid XTrans.  A valid reason might be focusing concerns, Adobe RAW file handling concerns, etc.

Eric

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Christof21
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Re: X-e1 - doubt about sharpness
In reply to viking79, Jan 29, 2013

viking79 wrote:

And one more thing, this was photographed with the 35mm f/1.4 lens, which is an excellent lens, but might perform differently than the Pentax 50mm f/2.8 Macro at a close focus like this. Plus, you have to get even closer with the 35mm to get the same framing as with the 50mm, so you are in a region where the 35mm might not be performing its best.

Here is my review of the Fuji 35mm f/1.4 lens though (it is the highest LW/PH lens I have tested, but I think that is due to lack of AA filter), and possible over sharpening by Lightroom. I need to test it with a JPEG from camera too.

http://erphotoreview.com/wordpress/?p=3068

That being said, the XTrans is not perfect of course, there are tradeoffs, but sensor sharpness is not a reason to avoid XTrans. A valid reason might be focusing concerns, Adobe RAW file handling concerns, etc.

Eric

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See my Blog at: http://www.erphotoreview.com/ (bi-weekly)
Flickr Photostream: http://www.flickr.com/photos/28177041@N03/ (updated daily)

Thanks for all these informations.. I am very surprised indeed that this comparison is not performed with equal parameters. You are right, the focal is different ... How do you explain this ??

In one hand, they give very precise measures (even the temperature when the photo was taken...) and on the other hand there are main differences in the parameters.

I know this is difficult to be strictly in the same conditions (different lenses,..)  but for these parameters this is not such a problem. I don't understand

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nixda
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Re: X-e1 - doubt about sharpness
In reply to Christof21, Jan 29, 2013

Christof21 wrote:

viking79 wrote:

And one more thing, this was photographed with the 35mm f/1.4 lens, which is an excellent lens, but might perform differently than the Pentax 50mm f/2.8 Macro at a close focus like this. Plus, you have to get even closer with the 35mm to get the same framing as with the 50mm, so you are in a region where the 35mm might not be performing its best.

Here is my review of the Fuji 35mm f/1.4 lens though (it is the highest LW/PH lens I have tested, but I think that is due to lack of AA filter), and possible over sharpening by Lightroom. I need to test it with a JPEG from camera too.

http://erphotoreview.com/wordpress/?p=3068

That being said, the XTrans is not perfect of course, there are tradeoffs, but sensor sharpness is not a reason to avoid XTrans. A valid reason might be focusing concerns, Adobe RAW file handling concerns, etc.

Eric

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be what it may - light, shade, and perspective will always make it 
beautiful. - John Constable (quote)
See my Blog at: http://www.erphotoreview.com/ (bi-weekly)
Flickr Photostream: http://www.flickr.com/photos/28177041@N03/ (updated daily)

Thanks for all these informations.. I am very surprised indeed that this comparison is not performed with equal parameters. You are right, the focal is different ... How do you explain this ??

In one hand, they give very precise measures (even the temperature when the photo was taken...) and on the other hand there are main differences in the parameters.

I know this is difficult to be strictly in the same conditions (different lenses,..) but for these parameters this is not such a problem. I don't understand

That is part of the reason why I said you need to do your own tests. There are simply too many variables that aren't controlled in a reliable fashion.

Regarding leaves on trees, there could easily be some motion blur. You need to compare static objects.

In any case, as mentioned, sharpness isn't really something people complain about the X-E1 per se. As long as there is a decent lens on that body (all current Fuji lenses are quite decent) and there is decent shooting technique involved, the results are very sharp indeed, certainly beyond anything that should give you nightmares when compared with other APS-C cameras.

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Christof21
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Re: X-e1 - doubt about sharpness
In reply to nixda, Jan 29, 2013

nixda wrote:

Christof21 wrote:

viking79 wrote:

And one more thing, this was photographed with the 35mm f/1.4 lens, which is an excellent lens, but might perform differently than the Pentax 50mm f/2.8 Macro at a close focus like this. Plus, you have to get even closer with the 35mm to get the same framing as with the 50mm, so you are in a region where the 35mm might not be performing its best.

Here is my review of the Fuji 35mm f/1.4 lens though (it is the highest LW/PH lens I have tested, but I think that is due to lack of AA filter), and possible over sharpening by Lightroom. I need to test it with a JPEG from camera too.

http://erphotoreview.com/wordpress/?p=3068

That being said, the XTrans is not perfect of course, there are tradeoffs, but sensor sharpness is not a reason to avoid XTrans. A valid reason might be focusing concerns, Adobe RAW file handling concerns, etc.

Eric

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I never saw an ugly thing in my life: for let the form of an object
be what it may - light, shade, and perspective will always make it
beautiful. - John Constable (quote)
See my Blog at: http://www.erphotoreview.com/ (bi-weekly)
Flickr Photostream: http://www.flickr.com/photos/28177041@N03/ (updated daily)

Thanks for all these informations.. I am very surprised indeed that this comparison is not performed with equal parameters. You are right, the focal is different ... How do you explain this ??

In one hand, they give very precise measures (even the temperature when the photo was taken...) and on the other hand there are main differences in the parameters.

I know this is difficult to be strictly in the same conditions (different lenses,..) but for these parameters this is not such a problem. I don't understand

That is part of the reason why I said you need to do your own tests. There are simply too many variables that aren't controlled in a reliable fashion.

Regarding leaves on trees, there could easily be some motion blur. You need to compare static objects.

In any case, as mentioned, sharpness isn't really something people complain about the X-E1 per se. As long as there is a decent lens on that body (all current Fuji lenses are quite decent) and there is decent shooting technique involved, the results are very sharp indeed, certainly beyond anything that should give you nightmares when compared with other APS-C cameras.

Ok, thanks I'm convinced now by X-E1

Not by the scene comparator, I will not rely on it anymore !! I used it frequently

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Austin101
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Re: X-e1 - doubt about sharpness
In reply to Christof21, Jan 29, 2013

Christof21 wrote:


DJF77 wrote:

im amazed we still get posts like these - I have owned many systems (Canon, Nikon, NEX7). You will not find a better image regardless of what you are looking for than the Fuji & it's superb glass, for APS-C, period. Lets throw 95% of Full frame systems in to that for good measure.

Id suggest getting a new monitor or popping down to your local opticians if you seriously think you won't get a sharp image out of the XE-1

Just have a look at the studio scene comparator...

You can send me pretty pictures, but you don't know the resuts another camera would give. I have a doubt with landscape pictures (the trees, leaves don't seem so sharp)

if you plan on shooting landscapes then forget about the X-E1, the soft paint effect is evident in trees and foliage even with OOC Jpegs, if you want a small mirrorless system the NEX-6 is much better for landscape work.

The X-E1 is a great camera capable of producing tac sharp images just not if trees and foliage in are the frame.

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Zardoz
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Re: X-e1 - doubt about sharpness
In reply to Christof21, Jan 29, 2013

It has far more to do with the photographer than the camera. Any modern camera system can provide excellent results with the correct application of knowledge and skill. For the price, the Fuji system is very competitive with other APS-C level systems, and offers good quality lenses.

Assumptions based on reviews and tests online can easily result in false conclusions, because many of the tests are flawed in various ways or represent only specific aspects which, if misunderstood, will lead you astray.

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nixda
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Re: X-e1 - doubt about sharpness
In reply to Austin101, Jan 29, 2013

Austin101 wrote:

Christof21 wrote:


DJF77 wrote:

im amazed we still get posts like these - I have owned many systems (Canon, Nikon, NEX7). You will not find a better image regardless of what you are looking for than the Fuji & it's superb glass, for APS-C, period. Lets throw 95% of Full frame systems in to that for good measure.

Id suggest getting a new monitor or popping down to your local opticians if you seriously think you won't get a sharp image out of the XE-1

Just have a look at the studio scene comparator...

You can send me pretty pictures, but you don't know the resuts another camera would give. I have a doubt with landscape pictures (the trees, leaves don't seem so sharp)

if you plan on shooting landscapes then forget about the X-E1, the soft paint effect is evident in trees and foliage even with OOC Jpegs, if you want a small mirrorless system the NEX-6 is much better for landscape work.

The X-E1 is a great camera capable of producing tac sharp images just not if trees and foliage in are the frame.

I beg to differ and very much so.

I have shot plenty of foliage and I don't see the 'paint effect' in ooc JPEGs. I generally shoot neutral JPEGs, so it could be the overly enthusiastic film simulations with ramped up parameters that could result in artifacts under some circumstances. But I haven't seen them.

Here is an example. Perhaps you can point out any 'paint effect' if there is any.

X-E1, ooc, neutral, everything -2

In comparison, here is the same scene shot with a D7000

D7000, ooc

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Christof21
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Re: X-e1 - doubt about sharpness
In reply to Austin101, Jan 29, 2013

Austin101 wrote:

Christof21 wrote:


DJF77 wrote:

im amazed we still get posts like these - I have owned many systems (Canon, Nikon, NEX7). You will not find a better image regardless of what you are looking for than the Fuji & it's superb glass, for APS-C, period. Lets throw 95% of Full frame systems in to that for good measure.

Id suggest getting a new monitor or popping down to your local opticians if you seriously think you won't get a sharp image out of the XE-1

Just have a look at the studio scene comparator...

You can send me pretty pictures, but you don't know the resuts another camera would give. I have a doubt with landscape pictures (the trees, leaves don't seem so sharp)

if you plan on shooting landscapes then forget about the X-E1, the soft paint effect is evident in trees and foliage even with OOC Jpegs, if you want a small mirrorless system the NEX-6 is much better for landscape work.

The X-E1 is a great camera capable of producing tac sharp images just not if trees and foliage in are the frame.

I was convinced... Until your answer.

I have not dreamt, there were weird effects on trees. I tried to find these samples on the net (I can't find them anymore..), it could be just bad pictures because of the photograph but the rest of the picture was OK.

Do you have such such samples or a review which mentions this effect ?

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